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Conference clt::cma

Title:DECthreads Conference
Moderator:PTHRED::MARYSTEON
Created:Mon May 14 1990
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1553
Total number of notes:9541

1454.0. "No /usr/lib/libpthreads.a on V4.0?" by HYDRA::PASHAPOUR (Disk space, the final frontier) Mon Dec 16 1996 21:10

T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1454.1DCEIDL::BUTENHOFDave Butenhof, DECthreadsTue Dec 17 1996 09:346
1454.2thanks and ...HYDRA::PASHAPOURDisk space, the final frontierTue Dec 17 1996 12:4410
1454.3DCEIDL::BUTENHOFDave Butenhof, DECthreadsTue Dec 17 1996 13:3224
1454.4Agreed!HYDRA::PASHAPOURDisk space, the final frontierTue Dec 17 1996 14:477
1454.5VAXCPU::michaudJeff Michaud - ObjectBrokerTue Dec 17 1996 20:562
1454.6DCEIDL::BUTENHOFDave Butenhof, DECthreadsWed Dec 18 1996 08:5318
1454.7HYDRA::SCHAFERMark Schafer, SPE MROWed Dec 18 1996 12:079
1454.8So where are shared libs documented?APACHE::CHAMBERSThu Dec 19 1996 14:5745
1454.9You had the right ideaWIBBIN::NOYCEPulling weeds, pickin' stonesThu Dec 19 1996 16:522
1454.10It's -shared on the ld commandEDSCLU::GARRODIBM Interconnect EngineeringThu Dec 19 1996 17:0812
1454.11VAXCPU::michaudJeff Michaud - ObjectBrokerThu Dec 19 1996 18:2219
1454.12Am I missing somthing?FREE::CAMBRIAWe're just one PTF from never talking to VTAM againFri Dec 20 1996 13:0616
1454.13Then what ?APACHE::CHAMBERSFri Dec 20 1996 18:3510
1454.14Znetrix.lkg.dec.com::thomasThe Code WarriorFri Dec 20 1996 21:123
1454.15VAXCPU::michaudJeff Michaud - ObjectBrokerFri Dec 20 1996 21:248
1454.16So where's this documented?APACHE::CHAMBERSTue Dec 24 1996 12:3439
1454.17VAXCPU::michaudJeff Michaud - ObjectBrokerTue Dec 24 1996 19:2125
1454.18a few more items...HYDRA::KENYONThe Foundation of Science...FictionThu Jan 02 1997 18:1120
1454.19help me understand the maintenance cost...HYDRA::KENYONThe Foundation of Science...FictionThu Jan 02 1997 18:1817
1454.20DCEIDL::BUTENHOFDave Butenhof, DECthreadsFri Jan 03 1997 10:4014
1454.21Why the cost is so high (or, at least, the technical side of it...)WTFN::SCALESDespair is appropriate and inevitable.Fri Jan 03 1997 17:0337
1454.22While I'm at it... :-)WTFN::SCALESDespair is appropriate and inevitable.Fri Jan 03 1997 17:2841
1454.23got it...HYDRA::KENYONThe Foundation of Science...FictionFri Jan 03 1997 19:5723
1454.24VAXCPU::michaudJeff Michaud - ObjectBrokerSat Jan 04 1997 00:5244
1454.25SMURF::DENHAMUSGMon Jan 06 1997 13:2115
1454.26OM and static libraries anyone?MIASYS::ENGLANDWed Mar 05 1997 11:2713
    I've really enjoyed this discussion immensely (as I mop the blood off
    the floor).  Here's a different point of view to consider.  In recent
    years we've seen the development of OM, a DUX link-time optimizer which
    among other things re-arranges  procedures within the executable or
    even inlines them in the name of  performance.  I can't claim to be an
    OM expert, but it is limited to operating on static libraries.  Perhaps
    some of you have more experience with OM and can tell me whether there
    is enough of a performance "win" with it to justify the use of static
    libraries  for this purpose.  Or are the CPU caches so effective at
    dealing with shared libraries now that we're being penny-wise and pound
    foolish to use static libraries?
    
    -ben-
1454.27Penny-wise and pound-foolish...unless you really need it.WTFN::SCALESDespair is appropriate and inevitable.Wed Mar 05 1997 13:2920
.26> penny-wise and pound foolish to use static libraries?

It depends on your requirements.  If you have a business need for
"performance at all costs", then obviously it would be foolish -not- to use
static libraries (as long as they continue to provide a performance advantage
over shared ones) and just absorb the downsides as the "cost of doing
business" in your market.

On the other hand, if the performance of your application is adequate when
built with shared libraries, then, yes, it would be foolish to use static
libraries.

Over time, the situation will improve:  we'll get faster processors and
better caches; hopefully soon there will be an OM for applications using
shared libraries; and maybe, just maybe, shared library performance itself
will improve.  So, unless you really need the marginal performance edge (and
are willing to pay the costs), you should use shared libraries.


				Webb
1454.28why performance vs shared libraries?MIASYS::ENGLANDMon Mar 10 1997 18:5013
    Could someone explain to me why performance must suffer at all if
    we use shared libraries?  Not knowing OSF internals that well,
    I would naively think that on a 10-CPU machine like the one I'm
    running my current benchmark on, the CPU's instruction cache would
    be more effective with shared libraries.   Why? Because there is
    physically only 1 copy of the code in memory, so there should be 
    a greater probability that the shared library code is in the CPU's
    cache already.  What's wrong with this picture?
    
    thanks
    
    -ben-
    
1454.29A WAG.WTFN::SCALESDespair is appropriate and inevitable.Mon Mar 10 1997 21:5014
.28> What's wrong with this picture?

I'm not sure that there's any regular reader of this conference who can answer
your question authoritatively, but...

The biggest difference is that the code calling the shared library is separately
linked from the shared library, so there has to be some "glue" that makes a call
between them possible, independent of the location in memory where the shared
library gets loaded.  My expectation is that the majority of the performance
difference can be traced to how symbol relocation is handled, but that's mostly
a WAG.


				Webb