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Conference netcad::hub_mgnt

Title:DEChub/HUBwatch/PROBEwatch CONFERENCE
Notice:Firmware -2, Doc -3, Power -4, HW kits -5, firm load -6&7
Moderator:NETCAD::COLELLADT
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4455
Total number of notes:16761

3412.0. "Adding DECconcentrator 900MX to dual-ring on-line??" by NETRIX::"feynmanlo@hgovc.enet.dec.com" (Feynman Lo) Fri Mar 29 1996 06:50

Hello,

One of our customer intend to add a DECconcentrator 900MX to their
existing FDDI ring in DEChub900 backplane.

The current FDDI related modules in the hub900 is as follows:



                                external FDDI
                            ______________________
                          /                       \
                new      A                         B
               -----     -----     -----        -----
              |     |   |     |   |     |      |     |
              |900MX|   |900EF|   |900MX|      |900EF|
               -----     -----     -----        -----
                A B         B       A B          A  
                            |        |           |     
                            |        |           |                             
                            |        |           |
               --------------------------------------    
FDDI within
900MX



The existing FDDI ring is running high traffic and critical appications.

(1) Can we add the new 900MX to the FDDI ring (by draging the ABport
    of the 900MX to the FDDI)   ON-LINE , without impacting their
    running systems ?  This is the custome's most concern.


(2) Is the dual ring broken (both ring) at the time the reconfiguration?
    Would the ring be partitioned during at that time?


(3) Any numerical data describing the non-reponse (or ring broken time)
    time of the ring?    (or even the hub?) 



Any suggestions? 

Thanks.

Feynman



[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
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3412.1NETCAD::DOODYMichael DoodyFri Mar 29 1996 15:3634
>(1) Can we add the new 900MX to the FDDI ring (by draging the ABport
>    of the 900MX to the FDDI)   ON-LINE , without impacting their
>    running systems ?  This is the custome's most concern.

    I guess it depends on what protocols/applications you are running over
    the ring. 
    
    If you had only DECconcentrators in the hub, I would say probably
    yes. Because you have DECswitch 900EF, the answer is no.
    
    The FDDI ports on the DECswitch 900EF will reset and go into
    pre-forwarding state, during which time no ring traffic will pass
    through the switch. This takes 30 seconds by default.
    

>(2) Is the dual ring broken (both ring) at the time the reconfiguration?
>    Would the ring be partitioned during at that time?

	While the new concentrator is being inserted between two other
    	modules, the ring will wrap.
    
    
>(3) Any numerical data describing the non-reponse (or ring broken time)
>    time of the ring?    (or even the hub?)
>
    	The hub will take 1-3 seconds to break the old connections and 
    	make the new connections necessary to insert the new module. 
    	During this time the ring will wrap.
    
    	More important is the 30 seconds pre-forwarding the 900EF will take
    	due to spanning tree.
    
    
    	-Mike
3412.2Thanks...and a bit moreNETRIX::"feynmanlo@hgovc.enet.dec.com"Feynman LoSat Mar 30 1996 09:0344
Mike,

First thanks for your reply. Your answer is great.

I just want to clarify a bit more.

(1) My understanding is, if the dual-ring is composed of ONLY
    900MXs in the DEChub 900MS, when I insert a new 900MX
    to the ring, the ring will  be wrapped for 1-3 seconds.
    So during that time , there are two separate single-ring.
    After the 3 seconds, the dual-ring will be restored.
    

    If the running protocols in the network are  DECnet (IV and OSI)
    and TCP/IP and no real-time applications are running, I don't
    think this three seconds would result in somethings abnormal.
    What is your comments?


(2) For the customer's case (with 900EF), 

    > The FDDI ports on the DECswitch 900EF will reset and go into
    > pre-forwarding state, during which time no ring traffic will pass
    > through the switch. This takes 30 seconds by default.
        

    So during the 30 seconds the 900EF rebuild the forwarding databases
    for the FDDI ports, is "during which time no ring traffic will pass
    through the switch"  meaning that during that time ONLY the Ethernet
    nodes would be unable to communicate with the FDDI nodes, all the
    FDDI nodes in the dual-ring(after the 3 seconds) would communicate
    well ?

    
    What about the state of the Ethernet ports during the 30 seconds
    and the effects on the communication between any Ethernet nodes?


Thanks once again.

Feynman.


[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]
3412.3NETCAD::MILLBRANDTanswer mamMon Apr 01 1996 14:1642
Hi -

Mike's on a plane to Interop, so I'll try to finish up this thread.

>    If the running protocols in the network are  DECnet (IV and OSI)
>    and TCP/IP and no real-time applications are running, I don't
>    think this three seconds would result in somethings abnormal.
>    What is your comments?

These protocols should recover without a hitch.  Your DECnet node 
event logs may show adjacency down/adjacency up.  

>    So during the 30 seconds the 900EF rebuild the forwarding databases
>    for the FDDI ports, is "during which time no ring traffic will pass
>    through the switch"  meaning that during that time ONLY the Ethernet
>    nodes would be unable to communicate with the FDDI nodes, all the
>    FDDI nodes in the dual-ring(after the 3 seconds) would communicate
>    well ?

The ring itself is intact.  Traffic passing from a 900MX through the
900EF to another 900MX still gets through.  However, FDDI traffic that
is destined for or coming from one of the 900EF's Ethernet segments will 
not get through.

    
>    What about the state of the Ethernet ports during the 30 seconds
>    and the effects on the communication between any Ethernet nodes?

Traffic will still pass between any of the 900EF's Ethernet segments
during this 30 second period, and will pass to any Ethernet LANs
you have configured on the hub backplane.

Does your customer have Ethernet-based VMS Clusters (LAVCs)?  This
non-routed protocol is time sensitive.  I forget exactly how many
seconds it takes until service to the cluster satellites is dropped,
but it is less than a minute.  If the cluster host is reachable
only through FDDI from the nodes on the 900EF's Ethernet segments,
the cluster nodes will hang.  When connectivity to the load host
is restored, they will get a new image and eventually be back on
line.

	Dotsie
3412.4ThanksNETRIX::"feynmanlo@hgovc.enet.dec.com"Feynman LoTue Apr 02 1996 00:336
Dotsie and Mike,

Thank you very much.

Feynman.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]