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Conference netcad::hub_mgnt

Title:DEChub/HUBwatch/PROBEwatch CONFERENCE
Notice:Firmware -2, Doc -3, Power -4, HW kits -5, firm load -6&7
Moderator:NETCAD::COLELLADT
Created:Wed Nov 13 1991
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:4455
Total number of notes:16761

2402.0. "HUBwatch V4.0 documentation error official note" by STRWRS::KOCH_P (It never hurts to ask...) Tue Jun 20 1995 19:48

    
    This is an error in the HUBwatch documentation concerning the
    GIGAswitch. It says in the description of the GIGAswitch is that it
    supports 22 ports. However, it supports 34 ports. The 22 port limit was
    when only 2 port line cards were available. 
    
    Who do I speak to about documentation errors?
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
2402.1Doc folks will see itNETCAD::FORINOWed Jun 21 1995 13:046
    The docs folks usually scan this conference so they should pick up
    any documentation problems posted here.
    
    I'll forward your note to them just to be covered.
    
    							John
2402.2Some input from the field on the Network Products Guide...NETCAD::BATTERSBYWed Jun 21 1995 15:34155
    [I've received permission from Jon to post this here in the hopes that
    more dialogue on documentation accuracy and usefulness will ultimately 
    result in an even better overall documentation set for the field.]
    From this, it looks like we need to proof read stuff more. :-)
    
    Bob
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:	NAME: Jon Danzak @PTO               
	FUNC: Sales Support                   
	TEL: 412-244-7268                     <DANZAK.JON@A1@CSOA1@ACI>
    

The "Network Products Guide" which we give to our distributors is fraught with 
peril.  It is not likely that you could SUCCESSFULLY order things via the 
standard config pages.

I like what the guide is attempting to do, in general, but specifically it has 
a long way to go.  It definately lacks technical edit which is pure peril with 
distributors.

I *DID* see many changes incorporated which I'd suggested in prior 
documentation reviews ( thanks!).  I.e. the product compare in the beginning.  
But the downside is that it is not CORRECT! (aarugh)

THe way that I approached a configuration page is "I've just sold Synoptics 
products all my life and going to do this quick cook-book DEC config to see if 
it works.  I don't want to get burned by anything.  I want to know it all up 
front in one page.  If this works, I'll do more."  In nearly every 
configuration page there are hidden traps.  Once we burn a distributor (i.e. 
missing part number etc.) they are VERY SHY to try us again.

Attached is my commentary,
j

Page 14	 Refers to the 90+ backplane which is never defined under CONNECTIVITY 
         and 90TS


Page 15	 Groups under 900FP is not defined.  Should be "The 6 port groups are 
         permanently physically paired (i.e. ports 1&2 = group 1, 3&4 = group 
         2, etc.).  Groups may be combined in any order.

Page 16	 The FDDI and Ethernet counts on the DECswitch series are flat out 
         WRONG - columns shifted

Page 16	 The DECbridge 90 is NOT SNMP managed (EXCEPT with a DECagent etc., 
         which is NOT noted anywhere on the page)  The "16" under types of 
         filters is ambiguous - is that note 16 or 16 protocols?

Page 17	 No Port configuration information column under the server line - does 
         it support thinwire, coax, aui etc.?  

	 The 90L+ does NOT support RJ45 under port connectors

	 The 90L+ does NOT support TN3270

Page 18	 The DECbrouter supports different PHYSICAL interfaces for different 
         models (i.e. V.21, V.35, etc.) these differences are NOT NOTED in each 
         model.  Nor is the physical link support noted on the WANrouter 90.

Page C42 The "##" is not called out in the part number, what IS the code for 
         stand-alone US version etc., or the table of country codes? (How would 
         a DISTRIBUTOR find this without fishing for it?)

Page C43 Missing software support and updates called out as optional part 
         numbers.  Doesn't the customer EVER want to get software support or 
         updates?  WHy aren't we selling this annuity revenue stream up front?

Page C44 Missing software updates and "##" for country codes

Page C45 Missing software updates

Page C46 Different use of country codes on the WANrouter 90, not called out. Do 
         the "*" in the WANrouter part numbers mean the same as the * in the 
         DSRVH part number?  Not noted.  It recommends load host kits but does 
         not give the part number for updates either.

Page C47 The "*" in the part number (as on the prior page) is not noted.  No 
         software is called out for the DECnis.

Page C48 The "*" in part numbers are not explained.  The cable part numbers are 
         not correct (Length missing etc.) and not explained.  (How would a 
         novice distributor order with this - they could not!)

Page C50 No optional management is called out.  Perhaps add Agent and HUBWATCh 
         to the config.

Page C51 Missing PCMCIA interface card for access point

Page C52 Missing PCMCIA interface card for access point (Description of DEINA 
         inconcistent with page C53)

Page C53 Description is inconsistent with page C52 (Also it would be easy to 
         NOT COUNT the DEINAs needed for the access point and have a 
         non-working configuration.)

Page C54 Missing PCMCIA for access point.  Missing software updates for 
         DECserver.  Suggest offering MANAGED alternative add/on of agent and 
         hubwatch and updates.

Page C55 Missing software updates for DECservers.  Missing PCMCIA access cards 
         for access points.  Missing cable kit for DECbrouter 90.

Page C57 Country code "##" not called out.  No pointer to where to find it.

PAGE C58 Country code "##" not called out, no differentiation between DEChub 
         one and DEChub one MX (i.e. typically use the MX only if you need TP 
         or SMF fiber, normally if MMF fiber use the other ONEhub)

Page C59 Gigaswitch part number incomplete (-variant part missing)  Physical 
         media types (PMDS) referenced but not called out - no order info 
         provided.

Page C60 (same as above)

Page C61 Configuration rules NOT given for agent/hubwatch - needed.  HOW 
         hubwatch works (i.e. requires agent, or manages DEChub 90 not 
         explained)  Updates for hubwatch and support not called out.

Page C62 (ditto as per C61)

Page C63 ?Not sure but may not be enough power in the configuration?
	 Need added H7890-M  - Note a DEChub 900 is configured WIHTOUT hubwatch 
         - making it not useful or switches not configurable!!!!!!! Talks about 
         push-point-click but does NOT CALL OUT HUBWatch.  No cables for 
         brouters called out - no software updates for servers called out.

Page C64 (Ditto as per page 63 - agent configured but NO hubwatch, updates, 
         etc.)  No software updates for servers etc.  No cables for brouters 
         etc.

Page C65 (same as 63 & 64) ? power in first hub.

Page C67 Incomplete part numbers - variants missing.  No management in DEChub 
         900. No PMD order info called out.  ATM line card order info 
         incomplete.


Page C68 (ditto as C67)

Page C69 (ditto as C67)

Page C70 (ditto - as C67)

Page C71 (ditto as C67)

Page C72 (ditto as C67)

Page C73 No cables for DECnis, No software ordered or updates for DECnis.  
         DECbrouter configured in parts list but NOT in picture or explained?  
         Why??

Page c74 ?power may not work in hubs? (don't know)  No software updates for 
         servers, no hUBWatch configured.  No cables for brouters configured.

2402.3STRWRS::KOCH_PIt never hurts to ask...Wed Jun 21 1995 20:409
    
    Don't hold your breath on the product guide. I guarantee you that
    you'll wind up in a pine box. 
    
    I've sent the same sort of thing to the person noted in the guide and
    the response was - total silence.
    
    To begin with, this should be a 3 ring type of catalog to allow for
    updates. The book was partially obsolete before we got it. 
2402.4Dawn Rohrbachers ReplyDELNI::BUZZELLFri Jul 07 1995 17:26199
Ed - You have my permission to post this memo in the notesfile.  And,
thank you for calling this to my attention.


Jon/Ted -  Your input and suggestions  are extremely important to the NPB
organization. We try to get to all the comments as quickly as they come 
in.  Unfortunately, sometimes we batch them and forget to respond to the 
individual directly.  Please be reassured that all the comments are being
carefully considered by Dick Lush and his team.

It just so happens our annual NPB marcom survey is due out July 6. It 
will directed to all the warriors, SBU's and ABU's for input to our
marcom programs, specifically literature, sales tools and catalogs.
The results of the survey help us determine where we will be spending
our dollars and resources for FY96.Alane Brown, an outside contractor,
will be managing the survey and calling all of you after the holidays. 

Going back to the issue.  Technical inaccuracies are totally
unacceptable.  Jon's memo has pointed out several areas that need
immediate attention in the NPB guide.  Some of these errors,
unfortunately,  are also in the product documentation. You should expect
perfection when it comes to technical content especially from the
networks guide.  We will correct it immediately and you can be bet
that more technical reviewers will go on the next version of the
hardcopy book. 

Dawn

From:	CONSLT::BUZZELL      28-JUN-1995 18:21:22.12
To:	delni::buzzell,mkots1::rohrbacher
CC:	
Subj:	Product Guide notes



            <<< NETCAD::KALI$USER3:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUB_MGNT.NOTE;1 >>>
                   -< DEChub/HUBwatch/PROBEwatch CONFERENCE >-
================================================================================
Note 2402.2      HUBwatch V4.0 documentation error official note          2 of 3
NETCAD::BATTERSBY                                   155 lines  21-JUN-1995 11:34
        -< Some input from the field on the Network Products Guide... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    [I've received permission from Jon to post this here in the hopes that
    more dialogue on documentation accuracy and usefulness will ultimately 
    result in an even better overall documentation set for the field.]
    From this, it looks like we need to proof read stuff more. :-)
    
    Bob
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
From:	NAME: Jon Danzak @PTO               
	FUNC: Sales Support                   
	TEL: 412-244-7268                     <DANZAK.JON@A1@CSOA1@ACI>
    

The "Network Products Guide" which we give to our distributors is fraught with 
peril.  It is not likely that you could SUCCESSFULLY order things via the 
standard config pages.

I like what the guide is attempting to do, in general, but specifically it has 
a long way to go.  It definately lacks technical edit which is pure peril with 
distributors.

I *DID* see many changes incorporated which I'd suggested in prior 
documentation reviews ( thanks!).  I.e. the product compare in the beginning.  
But the downside is that it is not CORRECT! (aarugh)

THe way that I approached a configuration page is "I've just sold Synoptics 
products all my life and going to do this quick cook-book DEC config to see if 
it works.  I don't want to get burned by anything.  I want to know it all up 
front in one page.  If this works, I'll do more."  In nearly every 
configuration page there are hidden traps.  Once we burn a distributor (i.e. 
missing part number etc.) they are VERY SHY to try us again.

Attached is my commentary,
j

Page 14	 Refers to the 90+ backplane which is never defined under CONNECTIVITY 
         and 90TS


Page 15	 Groups under 900FP is not defined.  Should be "The 6 port groups are 
         permanently physically paired (i.e. ports 1&2 = group 1, 3&4 = group 
         2, etc.).  Groups may be combined in any order.

Page 16	 The FDDI and Ethernet counts on the DECswitch series are flat out 
         WRONG - columns shifted

Page 16	 The DECbridge 90 is NOT SNMP managed (EXCEPT with a DECagent etc., 
         which is NOT noted anywhere on the page)  The "16" under types of 
         filters is ambiguous - is that note 16 or 16 protocols?

Page 17	 No Port configuration information column under the server line - does 
         it support thinwire, coax, aui etc.?  

	 The 90L+ does NOT support RJ45 under port connectors

	 The 90L+ does NOT support TN3270

Page 18	 The DECbrouter supports different PHYSICAL interfaces for different 
         models (i.e. V.21, V.35, etc.) these differences are NOT NOTED in each 
         model.  Nor is the physical link support noted on the WANrouter 90.

Page C42 The "##" is not called out in the part number, what IS the code for 
         stand-alone US version etc., or the table of country codes? (How would 
         a DISTRIBUTOR find this without fishing for it?)

Page C43 Missing software support and updates called out as optional part 
         numbers.  Doesn't the customer EVER want to get software support or 
         updates?  WHy aren't we selling this annuity revenue stream up front?

Page C44 Missing software updates and "##" for country codes

Page C45 Missing software updates

Page C46 Different use of country codes on the WANrouter 90, not called out. Do 
         the "*" in the WANrouter part numbers mean the same as the * in the 
         DSRVH part number?  Not noted.  It recommends load host kits but does 
         not give the part number for updates either.

Page C47 The "*" in the part number (as on the prior page) is not noted.  No 
         software is called out for the DECnis.

Page C48 The "*" in part numbers are not explained.  The cable part numbers are 
         not correct (Length missing etc.) and not explained.  (How would a 
         novice distributor order with this - they could not!)

Page C50 No optional management is called out.  Perhaps add Agent and HUBWATCh 
         to the config.

Page C51 Missing PCMCIA interface card for access point

Page C52 Missing PCMCIA interface card for access point (Description of DEINA 
         inconcistent with page C53)

Page C53 Description is inconsistent with page C52 (Also it would be easy to 
         NOT COUNT the DEINAs needed for the access point and have a 
         non-working configuration.)

Page C54 Missing PCMCIA for access point.  Missing software updates for 
         DECserver.  Suggest offering MANAGED alternative add/on of agent and 
         hubwatch and updates.

Page C55 Missing software updates for DECservers.  Missing PCMCIA access cards 
         for access points.  Missing cable kit for DECbrouter 90.

Page C57 Country code "##" not called out.  No pointer to where to find it.

PAGE C58 Country code "##" not called out, no differentiation between DEChub 
         one and DEChub one MX (i.e. typically use the MX only if you need TP 
         or SMF fiber, normally if MMF fiber use the other ONEhub)

Page C59 Gigaswitch part number incomplete (-variant part missing)  Physical 
         media types (PMDS) referenced but not called out - no order info 
         provided.

Page C60 (same as above)

Page C61 Configuration rules NOT given for agent/hubwatch - needed.  HOW 
         hubwatch works (i.e. requires agent, or manages DEChub 90 not 
         explained)  Updates for hubwatch and support not called out.

Page C62 (ditto as per C61)

Page C63 ?Not sure but may not be enough power in the configuration?
	 Need added H7890-M  - Note a DEChub 900 is configured WIHTOUT hubwatch 
         - making it not useful or switches not configurable!!!!!!! Talks about 
         push-point-click but does NOT CALL OUT HUBWatch.  No cables for 
         brouters called out - no software updates for servers called out.

Page C64 (Ditto as per page 63 - agent configured but NO hubwatch, updates, 
         etc.)  No software updates for servers etc.  No cables for brouters 
         etc.

Page C65 (same as 63 & 64) ? power in first hub.

Page C67 Incomplete part numbers - variants missing.  No management in DEChub 
         900. No PMD order info called out.  ATM line card order info 
         incomplete.


Page C68 (ditto as C67)

Page C69 (ditto as C67)

Page C70 (ditto - as C67)

Page C71 (ditto as C67)

Page C72 (ditto as C67)

Page C73 No cables for DECnis, No software ordered or updates for DECnis.  
         DECbrouter configured in parts list but NOT in picture or explained?  
         Why??

Page c74 ?power may not work in hubs? (don't know)  No software updates for 
         servers, no hUBWatch configured.  No cables for brouters configured.