Conference chefs::ms-exchange

    
    	I'm usually in my Inbox within a minute and a half through DIGITAL1.
    

    - are you using MAPI Elf?  It can take several minutes to time-out
    trying to connect to the ELF server.
    
    - are you automatically delivering your new mail to a personal folder
    on your PC?  I'm guessing it could take a while to move mail, but I
    don't know if you're prevented from doing anything else while the mail
    is delivered...

    
    	But if you are delivering to Personal, you should see it happen-
    	ing.  The number to the right of "Your name" Inbox reduces by one
    	while the number to the right of "Personal" Inbox increases by
    	one.
    

Ken, could you provide some more info about your configuration such 
as what operating system and your hardware config (especially 
memory). Also what speed modem.

I'm also curious if it is just Exchange that is slow or is all your 
networking slow. How long does it take to ping your Exchange server 
for example ?. You should see something like this via RAS at 28.8
(pkoexc1 is my Exchange server).


C:\>ping pkoexc1

Pinging pkoexc1 [16.125.112.248] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 16.125.112.248: bytes=32 time=266ms TTL=27
Reply from 16.125.112.248: bytes=32 time=265ms TTL=27
Reply from 16.125.112.248: bytes=32 time=297ms TTL=27
Reply from 16.125.112.248: bytes=32 time=235ms TTL=27

You should be seeing similar times or better since I'm going through 
a firewall and a tunnel and the Internet.

In the past some slow client problems have been solved by changing 
the RPC binding order in the registry. This determines which network 
protocol the client will try first to connect. Depending on how your 
RAS configuration is set up you may be timing out several 
non-operation protocols like IPX or Nebeui before it finally gets a 
TCP/IP connection. Putting IP first often solves the problem.

Another trick is to put your Exchange server into your local hosts 
and lmhosts files to eliminate slow DNS or WINS lookups. This will 
help as a diagnostic tool to determine if it is a network routing 
problem or a name resolution problem.

If all of this sounds like a foreign language, your local CCS help 
desk should be able to help you.

RE .4 Ahhh, but don't you see that having to do all this junk is part of the problem, not 
really an answer. I just reset all my stuff to go back through Teamlinks, for as long as it 
lasts, for much the same reasons. I have done all of the tuning things - changed my RPC 
Registry setting to use the TCP/IP RPC first, changed my tunnel access point to match the 
site where my Exchange server is located, changed my DNS and WINS servers to match the SWB 
recommendations, even PRE load my Exchange server address in my LMHosts file - and it's 
still a 3-5 minute process to get Exchange from the first splash screen through to the 
presentation of the inbox screen (it's just plain ssslllooowww). I can be reading and 
processing Teamlinks mail well before then, even if I go through the same tunnel connection. 
I'm not a Teamlinks bigot and don't particularly care which system I end up using - 
All-In-1, Teamlinks or Exchange - just so whichever one I use doesn't get in the way. 
Exchange, as it is currently working for me, gets in the way big time. 

Just to save a message. I'm running Windows NT V4.0 on a Pentium Pro with 64 MB memory & 
gobs of disk and using a 28.8/33.6 modem (mostly end up with 26.4 connects to my ISP - 
Sprynet). I'm running AV Tunnel 2.0 Beta (tried it to see if it helped - didn't speed up 
Exchange, but is more stable on NT than V1.1).

So help me understand. Why am I going from a working system that will come up and let me do 
useful work within the first minute after the initial splash screen to one that linger, with 
lights blinking maddly on the external modem, for 3-5 minutes before bringing up the first 
useful screen?

I suspect that this will cause a great howl from the field folks, once the SWB roll-out is 
done later this month. This is not progress, it's madness. Tune it up or tune it out, but do 
something.

Norm

<<< CHEFS::DISK$ALL_IN_1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MS-EXCHANGE.NOTE;10 >>> -< Microsoft
Exchange Server >-
================================================================================
Note 970.5  Why is Access to Exchange So Slow Through the RAS Server?     5 of
5 NQOS01::ohf1001_port1.ohf.dec.com::werner            30 lines   2-APR-1997
02:24 -< This dog don't hunt! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RE .4 Ahhh, but don't you see that having to do all this junk is part of the
problem, not  really an answer. I just reset all my stuff to go back through
Teamlinks, for as long as it  lasts, for much the same reasons. I have done all
of the tuning things - changed my RPC  Registry setting to use the TCP/IP RPC
first, changed my tunnel access point to match the  site where my Exchange
server is located, changed my DNS and WINS servers to match the SWB 
recommendations, even PRE load my Exchange server address in my LMHosts file -
and it's  still a 3-5 minute process to get Exchange from the first splash
screen through to the  presentation of the inbox screen (it's just plain
ssslllooowww). I can be reading and  processing Teamlinks mail well before
then, even if I go through the same tunnel connection.  I'm not a Teamlinks
bigot and don't particularly care which system I end up using -  All-In-1,
Teamlinks or Exchange - just so whichever one I use doesn't get in the way. 
Exchange, as it is currently working for me, gets in the way big time. 

Just to save a message. I'm running Windows NT V4.0 on a Pentium Pro with 64 MB
memory &  gobs of disk and using a 28.8/33.6 modem (mostly end up with 26.4
connects to my ISP -  Sprynet). I'm running AV Tunnel 2.0 Beta (tried it to see
if it helped - didn't speed up  Exchange, but is more stable on NT than V1.1).

So help me understand. Why am I going from a working system that will come up
and let me do  useful work within the first minute after the initial splash
screen to one that linger, with  lights blinking maddly on the external modem,
for 3-5 minutes before bringing up the first  useful screen?

I suspect that this will cause a great howl from the field folks, once the SWB
roll-out is  done later this month. This is not progress, it's madness. Tune it
up or tune it out, but do  something.

Norm

    Norm,
    
    Couldn't agree more.  And if anyone ever needs some urgency to make
    this happen, wait till cost centre managers start seeing the HORRENDOUS
    telephone bills from folks like me dialing from European hotel rooms.
    My last bill was well over $100 for 1 day's worth of a couple of 
    RAS connections for e-mail upload/download (I was using the PCMCIA
    modem in the table below).
    
    I couldn't tolerate that a second day.  I told my CC manager that I
    would expense a fast modem if that solved the problem.  The good news
    is that I think it will - I did some benchmarks on my home system and
    found some surprising results.   Note that these are for an IDENTICAL
    client PC with IDENTICAL network settings, Exchange parameters, etc. 
    The only difference is the modem (and possibly the COM driver/UART) ;
    
    			Multitech 	US Robotics PCMCIA	US Robotics
    			19.2 portable	19.2 kbps		28.8 "WinModem"
    
    Time to dial	5 secs.		3 secs			immediate
    
    Time to answer	15 secs		15 secs			10 secs
    
    Time to RAS		40 secs.	60-90 secs		20 secs.
    "network logon"
    
    Time to Synch.	10-20 mins.	15-30 mins.		2-3 mins.
    Inbox
    
    
    What gives here?  Apart from the obvious difference in speed (19.2 vs.
    28.8), there was no other difference. I don't know what modems are used
    on the DIGITAL2 RAS servers in Europe - that might have an effect but
    in any case the tests were against the IDENTICAL server.  I reset the
    Inbox so that the data transferred was identical.   Windows DUN
    confirmed the connection speeds that I have posted.  There is a truly
    staggering difference with the WinModem (this is a USR Sportster
    modified to run optimally only on Windows95)
    
    I'm a comms person at heart and cannot understand these results.  If I
    had the time, I'd analyse the data on the serial interface to find out 
    the application protocol.  I suspect that the delays are due to a very
    high level of granularity on the RAS and Exchange protocols which is
    somehow optimised by certain modems - sounds kind of illegal to me (at
    least non-standard) but I assure you the results are real.
    
    Get hold of a WinModem and see if it works any better for you.
    
    /Chris/

    Maybe Bill Gates is in bed with modem manufacturers??
    
    It sounds like that the solution to everything the MS puts out is "MORE
    something" memory, disk, modem speed.  The amazing part is that people
    seem to just accept the fact and go out and buy it.
    
    Just a thought
    
    Jim Z
    

What mode is everyone using to connect to Exchange.  When I dial-up, I use
offline mode because that allows me to get into my inbox with 20 seconds and
get my e-mail within 3-4 minutes.  When I am in a Digital office, I use online
mode - this allows me to see public folders and receive & send e-mail
automatically.  I'll agree that I get frustrated with the frequency of not
being able to connect to my Exchange server, but it blows away Teamlinks in
terms of usability and compatibility with other desktop applications.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    19.2Kbps modems?  Wasn't that a temporary standard ("V.32terbo")
    designed by AT&T while Rockwell and friends pushed "V.FC" (the pre-V.34
    28.8Kbps standard)?  You might be running into a compatibility issue.
    
    We only have one person dialing in our RAS pool in WRO with a 19.2Kbps
    modem (a "Diamond" something or another) that I've seen and they
    report intermittent issues.  (But it improved when the Courier dial-ins
    were updated to "newer" flash firmware.)
    
    I, personally, have excellent performance with Exchange while using
    RAS dial-ins at 28.8Kbps without using off-line mode.
    
    --Ron

RE: 10

Help me understand the logic of how your off-line mode is any better. I 
keep getting this same arguement from other Exchange defenders. Let me 
state the problem this way - I only sign on to Exchange to read (and 
process replies if required) my mail. It does me zero, nada, zilch amount 
of good to sign on OFF-LINE! So why should I be happy that I can get a 
worthless service faster by signing on off-line. even you stated that it 
still takes you 2-3 minutes to get a connect and get anythig useful from 
your mail server. THAT THE PROBLEM! That's unacceptible service. Even with 
lines so slow that they can't keep up with character cell terminal echoes 
we were getting better service than that with A1. With Teamlinks the 
service was dependent on how much had to be downloaded, but try a test with 
1-2 messages queued up in both Team links and Exchange and you'll be 
finished reading and responding to the Teamlinks mail before Exchange even 
leaves the opening splash screen. It's a giant waste of everybody's time 
anad that is the one commodity that no one today has enough of.  

Having said all that, let me hasten to add that I hope that the Exchange 
problems can be worked out, because I agree that it could end up being a 
much better system for us to work with - much better integrated into the 
desktop and Intranet worlds. It just has to get a whole lot faster; 
otherwise, it will become an encumberment and people wil stop using it.

Norm

    Hey - calm down - the stuff really CAN be made to work well......
    
    I think that the point the previous noter was making about "Offline
    Mode" is that you work "mostly offline" - that is to say connected via
    RAS but not dynamically connected to the Exchange server.  
    
    You then execute an Exchange/Outlook one-shot "Check for New Mail" and
    deliver that to your synchronized Offline Folders.
    
    You then drop back to working "Offline" from an Exchange point of
    view, maybe even dropping the RAS connection entirely if you're not
    going to use other network shares or IP applications.
    
    You process your mail offline, using standard "Send" and "Reply"
    features, which will put messages in the "Outbox" rather than the 
    "Sent" folder.  Then you re-connect to re-synchronize the folders which
    causes the mail to be actually sent through the server and filed in the
    "Sent" folder.
    
    This all works very nicely and is a very efficient working model for 
    home-workers or road-warriors.  The problem outlined in .0 is still
    the biggest issue - why does the initial handshake and the folder
    synchronisation sometimes take an eternity?  
    
    The good news is that we know that it can all work perfectly - we just 
    have to find out how to reliably configure it so that everyone can
    benefit from it.
    
    /Chris/

    >You then drop back to working "Offline" from an Exchange point of
    
    How does one do this without exiting Exchange (or Outlook)?  I tried
    playing around with working offline the other evening, but after I had
    it synchronise (copy my new mail down, send outgoing mail) I then
    wanted to work exclusively with my local-copy sync'd folders -- but
    couldn't figure out how to "log off but not exit."
    

    
    	You stay connected to Exchange but you disconnect your RAS [or
    	whatever you're using] connection.
    
    	Once your messages are loaded into a Personal folder, there is
    	no need for a network connection until you decide to send some-
    	thing out.
    

Let me explain how I use Exchange ->

     1)  I connect to the internal network via ISP & tunnel             1.5
MIN
     2)  I startup Exchange in offline mode                                   
   .5 MIN
     3)  I press F5 to start the connection to my Exchange            2-3 MIN
          server (via Outlook - press Ctrl-M to do the same
          in the Exchange client) and download my new
          mail                                          
     4)  I process any replys, forwards, etc. and then upload         2-3 MIN
          them to the Exchange Server by pressing F5 again
          (I also commonly press cancel in the transfer dialog
          after the outgoing messages have transfered to save
          time)
     5)  Every once in a while, I select the option to synchronize  5-10 MIN
          all the changes between my offline storage file and the
          Exchange Server so I can speed up the transfer process

Setup to do email operations in this fashion include:

     1)  Sign on in online mode, select folders required in offline mode, and
synch           the offline folder file
     2)  Configure Dial-up Networking in the Exchange Server service
properties           to use an Existing Network Connection (this will allow
you to do Remote           Mail using your existing RAS connection

Keep in mind that I have never done this via a direct RAS connection - I
always connect via the Tunnel - times could even be faster than this.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

I think I've put my finger on part of the problem with the Exchange 
startup, at least as it applies to me. I began watching more closely how 
Teamlinks starts up and the time it takes. Teamlinks isn't really 
significantly faster than Exchange, BUT it does appear to be doing 
something while it's starting up (the client window comes up and the script 
window comes up and the script starts processing, etc.). So, Teamlinks 
gives the user something to look at aside from an open splash screen and it 
appears that things are going on. You can even see the progress of the mail 
download. 

With Exchange, when I sign on with the Connect option, all I get is the 
opening splash screen and then 2-3 minutes of nothing (except a bell that 
rings out of nowhere about 2 minutes into the process to announce heavens 
know what). Admitedly, if I start in the off-line mode, I get the client 
window fairly fast (10-15 sec.) and then can open another window to go get 
Remote Mail. I would then have the little mail envelope automation to keep 
me amused for the 2-3 minutes that it takes to really get signed on and the 
mail delivered. Perhaps THAT is the real reason to start off in off-line 
mode. If the Exchange option that starts with a connection at least opened 
the client window and showed a little animation icon of the log-on and 
download process, at least the user would get some indication (other than 
the ubiquitious hourglass icon) of progress being made. It's a perception 
problems more than anything else, but one that is easy to get disgusted 
with. Maybe some human factors feedback the the MS app designers is in 
order.

Norm

The Exchange client normaly works fine remotely. Thousands of people 
use it every day, myself included. I use RAS and the tunnel and both 
have about the same performance. I just dialled in and synched 1.5mb 
worth of mail all in under 10 mins with a 21.6 connection from 
Houston. I'm using Outlook, which is slower than the Exchange client 
and it still starts up and shows me my inbox in under a minute.

If your experience is worse than this then there is something wrong 
and my questions in .4 were attempting to help diagnose the problem.

	As the author of the base note, I feel that I should update
	my situation. I tried a few things, even found the the rpc
	binding order, but did not feel confident making any changes
	so I called the hotline on Wednesday for assistance.
	It's Friday and I'm still waiting for a call back. I called the
	helpdesk five minutes ago and was told that they would up
	the priority on my call.

	Another symptom of my situation is the following. I have never
	been able to see the public folders. After double clicking
	on the public folder icon I get the hour glass for around
	20 minutes. I then get the message that I have been disconnected
	from the RAS server and would I like to reconnect. I don't
	know what type of info is kept in the public folders but
	I'm sure glad that I have not been desperate to get something
	from them.

	This is sure one painful mail system to deal with.

	Ken

    
    	The public folder is an informational type of thing ... includes
    	FAQ's and helpful hints, etc.
    

At least a part of the slowness that I've experienced is probably in the 
network. I pinged the ALF Exchange server last night and got returns of 
354ms, 374ms, Timeout, Timeout. I assume that these were not good numbers and 
could indicate a problem somewhere in the net.

Norm

I've heard also that ALFEXC1 is one of the biggest
(most users) servers we have.  And that some new
servers are coming up to off-load it.

One nice thing about Exchange is that they can move
your mailbox pretty transparently.

Norm, about your ping test:
> At least a part of the slowness that I've experienced 
> is probably in the network. I pinged the ALF Exchange
> server last night and got returns of 
> 354ms, 374ms, Timeout, Timeout. 
> I assume that these were not good numbers and 
> could indicate a problem somewhere in the net.

The less than 400 ms is tolerable, but not the timeouts.

Was this thru a tunnel connection in ALF? You can
test how good your ISP connection is by 
	ping tunnel2.alf-x.dec.com
(the tunnel relay machine).

You can also use the tracert command to get some idea
of where the bottleneck is.
	tracert tunnel2.alf-x.dec.com
shows the delay to Digital's network.
	tracert alfexc1.alf.dec.com
will show the internal network delay (the first
hop will be to the tunnel server, the rest
is the internal route to the Exchange server).

    There are situations where your local messaging profile can get
    corrupted.  If you are experiencing strange application freezing
    problems with Outlook and/or Exchange Client, try removing the
    "Microsoft Exchange Server" service from your profile, exiting and
    adding it back.  (You can also just punt your whole profile to be
    safe and add it back like it was.)
    
    --Ron