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Conference waylay::askenet_v5

Title:Ask The EasyNet (V5)
Notice:Don't ask about notes conferences here - see 1.2
Moderator:WAYLAY::GORDON
Created:Mon Apr 13 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1236
Total number of notes:9997

1226.0. "Music Recognition" by HELIX::SONTAKKE () Mon May 05 1997 18:28

    Does one have to born with a golden (silver? tin?) ear to be able to
    recognize classical music?  I like classical music but I have very hard
    time identifying the music even when I have it on CD's and tapes. 
    Bethoven's 5th symphony and Mozart's 40th are the only two that I can
    recognize with 100% accuracy.  The DeBear diamond commercial drives me
    up the wall as I *know* that music but I can't place it.
    
    Computers have come a long way and can now do rudimentary voice
    recognition.  Is there any research done to get computers to recognize
    music?  If so, may be I can get myself "programmed" :-)
    
    - Vikas
    
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1226.1Diamond MusicHYDRA::SCHAFERMark Schafer, SPE MROMon May 05 1997 19:375
    > The DeBeers diamond commercial
    
    It's a Sony release, I have it.
    
    http://www.music.sony.com/Music/Classical/Releases/diamond.htm
1226.2DECWET::ONOSoftware doesn't break-it comes brokenMon May 05 1997 22:0416
It seems to me that classical pieces tend to be much longer and
have more internal variation than typical contemporary music.  
The "trigger phrases" don't come as often, and are spread through 
the piece.  By "trigger phrase" I mean something like the first
four notes of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony. 

Classical pieces are also less likely to be hammered into your
head via repeated airplay.  I remember the rock songs of the '70s 
quite well.  I heard them over, and over, and over, and over. 
The classical pieces that I recognize are on the few classical
CDs that we have, or are on our Fantasia video. 

Also, names such as Symphony No. 40 in G minor, K.550. really
don't stick in my mind. 

Wes
1226.3JAMIN::OSMANEric Osman, dtn 226-7122Tue May 06 1997 13:2413
    
    WCRB (Boston) has the same problem as rock stations.  Some
    classical pieces get over-played.  For example, I don't want to hear
    the Mozart flute quartets as much as they play them, or the Mozart
    Hunt quartet.  Sure, they're fine pieces, but just because their
    air-time happens to fit between the end of the news and when its time
    to play the oriental rug commercial again, doesn't mean I should have
    to listen to those particular pieces that often.
    
    Anyway, if you listen to a station like WCRB for several months, you
    will indeed start to recognize more classical pieces.
    
    /Eric
1226.4PCBUOA::BAYJJim, PortablesTue May 06 1997 18:1923
    Another problem with classical is there are no lyrics to identify them
    by.  Since the trigger phrases in popular music usually *are* the
    title, its that much simpler for popular music, and makes it that much
    harder to condition yourself to listen for the needed information.  Its
    extremely difficult to go into a music store and ask for a piece that
    "goes la-lalalala-la".  
    
    And as mentioned, if you have the patience and timing to hear the
    announcer give the name (and they give it out rather close to the piece
    played, rather then asking you to roll back and correlate the name to
    the "second song of a four piece set"), it typically ends up being
    something quite unmemorable.
    
    Given all that, I empathize with the noter in .0.  Quite often I hear a
    piece of music, recognize it as a classical piece, and often comment to
    myself "that why they call it 'classical'", despite the fact I haven't
    a clue what its called, or who did it.
    
    Oh, and if you *do* find out what it is, should you get it by the New
    York Philharmonic, or the Whozit Chamber Orchestra?  :-)
    
    jeb
    
1226.5HELIX::SONTAKKETue May 06 1997 18:235
    The reason I know Mozart 40th is because I knew a song which was based
    on that tune.  The song had been my favourite even before I was old
    enough to know the music of Mozart.
    
    - Vikas
1226.6One hand in my pocket ...HELIX::SONTAKKETue May 06 1997 18:309
    Another example would be Mozart symphonies 24th, 29th and piano
    concertos 17, 23 etc.  I have them on 3 or 4 cassettes and on 3 CDs in
    different combinations but every time I hear it on the radio, I am
    still lost.  At least I can recognize Mozart quite accurately.
    
    I can't have such a bad ear because I still know when I hear Allnis
    Morriset / Cheryl Crow / Maddona's latest assault :-)
    
    - Vikas
1226.7HYDRA::SCHAFERMark Schafer, SPE MROTue May 06 1997 18:491
    http://www.kids.warnerbros.com/karaoke/cmp/list.htm
1226.8Memory type and repetition is my betskylab.zko.dec.com::FISHERGravity: Not just a good idea. It's the law!Tue May 06 1997 19:5838
I theorize that while the suggestions above all likely have some validity, the
big thing is that people have different types of memories.  Not remembering
melodies is not the same as being "tone deaf".

For example, my wife has a very visual memory.  If we are talking about where we
saw a particular factoid she may remember that it was on the left side of a
newspaper page with a picture below it, for example.  I, on the other hand
remember tastes.  I don't know how.  I can just tell that this tastes a lot like
that one my mother made the time that ...

I am usually better with melodies than she is, but if she sees the music (even
just words written down, not the notes) she can associate a melody better.

That said, I bet that most people can recognize melodies better than they think.
I find it hard to believe that most people remember, say, "Louie, Louie" from
the words.  How about Mason William's "Classical Gas" or the theme from Hawaii
Five-O?  I bet you can remember them (at least for 5-O which has a much more
memorable theme than Classical Gas), if you were into Pop music in the late 60s,
even though there are no words.

I suspect that the single biggest factor in not remembering so-called classical
music is the lack of repetition and social context (i.e. only people in certain
circles go around talking about the BSO's latest CD).

If you want to be able to recognize such music better, I agree with Eric that
listening to WCRB and/or WGBH in the morning and/or WEVO in the afternoon
(assuming you are in the Greater Nashua/Maynard Area) will be the biggest help.

Secondly, knowing a little about how classical music is constructed may help.
For example, many classical forms involve stating a theme (possibly two or
three) and repeating them in variations.  Now I can't pick up some of the more
esoteric variations easily, but if you start looking for a theme (the first 4
notes of Beethoven's 5th Symphony, for example) you find it all over the place
and in all kinds of different instruments and recognizable variants.

My 2 cents...

Burns
1226.9QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centTue May 06 1997 20:5016
It can also be instructive listening to some PDQ Bach (or even Victor Borge)
to see if you can spot familiar tunes in unfamiliar settings, or exaggerated
classical styles.  (For rock, try Spinal Tap.)

I also find that as a budding (read "lousy, but trying") musician, I have
started to recognize the styles of composers such as John Williams,
Andrew Lloyd-Webber, Aaron Copland and others.    Some composers have VERY
distinctive styles - there've been several times when I've heard a new song
on the radio and instantly said "that's a Jim Steinman song!" (most recently
with Celine Dion's hit whose name I have forgotten... - I had to find a
record store to see if I was right.)

I agree with Burns (my fellow Hollis Town Band member) that repetition is
a key to getting the brain to recognize such things.

					Steve
1226.10MRPTH1::16.121.160.233::slablabounty@mail.dec.comTue May 06 1997 21:493
Celine Dion - "It's All Coming Back to Me Now"

1226.11QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centWed May 07 1997 00:435
    Yes, that's the one.  Some would say that every Steinman song is just
    a variation of "Paradise by the Dashboard Light", and they'd not be
    completely wrong...  But then there's "Total Eclipse of the Heart"...
    
    				Steve
1226.12Jim Steinman is pretty easy to pick outWAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerWed May 07 1997 14:126
	Yeah, but to me (a lapsed musician), I knew almost immediately that 
"Total Eclipse of the Heart" was a Jim Steinman song. (If you can "hear"
Meatlof singing it - it's a Jim Steinman song. ;-) )


					--Doug
1226.13QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centWed May 07 1997 17:263
How about Barbra Streisand singing "Left in the Dark Again"?  That was a hoot!

				Steve
1226.14WAYLAY::GORDONResident Lightning DesignerWed May 07 1997 19:281
	How did I miss that one?
1226.15MRPTH1::16.121.160.241::slablabounty@mail.dec.comWed May 07 1997 21:423
Pure luck, I guess.