Conference misery::feline_v1

    If you come up with a solution, I'ld love to know it!!!  Is your
    male cat neutered???  Mine isn't, and he refuses to "poop" in the
    box....he always goes right next to it.  
    
    Fire lives in a kitty condo during the day and comes out to play
    at night.  I even tried filling up the bottom of the kitty condo
    with litter boxes so he would have no choice!!!  He chose to "poop"
    on the shelf!!! 
    
    Lucky that I feed him science diet and his "poops" are almost as
    hard as the dry crunchies themselves.  I just pick them up with
    toilet paper and flush!  Not much of a solution, to an aggrivating
    problem.
    
    cin
    

    When I acquired one of my cats as a 6-week old kitten, he
    too seemed to want to defecate in a particular location on
    the living room carpet.  What I did, was to place the litter
    box in the location he wanted to go.  Since I did not want 
    this as a permanent solution, my idea was to, eeeeeeever 
    soooo sloooowly, move the box towards the bathroom.  This
    could be accomplished because we lived in a small apartment
    and the bathroom was right next to the living room.
    
    He would sh*t in the box when it was placed in his 'location'.
    So I left it there for a few days, made sure he was using it
    regularly, and then I started moving a couple of inches a
    day, towards, and then into, the bathroom.  It worked!
    
    As for your cat, it's not clear whether he simply does not
    want to defecate in litter, or that he wants to defecate in
    those particular spots.  If it's the latter, then you can
    try to modify his behavior using the technique above.  If
    it's that he does not want to defecate into litter then 
    here's another idea.  Why not get a second, small pan for
    him, that's empty, put it next to other litter box, and 
    see if he will choose that.  It's sure a lot better than
    where he's going now.
    
    Good luck!
    Donna
    

re: .1

Yes, he's neutered.


re: .2


I tried moving the box to his favorite spot, but that didn't work.

I don't belive he likes the litter because he never covered when he did use the 
box.  I will try the empty box idea.


Thanks,  Bill

    I used to place disposible litter trays right where the favorite
    spot was, in addition to leaving the main box where it belonged
    (sorry, I just had a vision of a boot node box and satellite
    boxes...I've been working too hard...).  Soon, after there were
    boxes everywhere, he started using the main box.  So instead of
    moving the one box, you might try a "distributed solution".
    
    Mary

    Mary, I'm not sure if that would work with my cats. At one point
    I had four jumbo boxes, and I was cleaning them all at the same
    time. Panther and Argus made a point urinating in each box, probably
    to cancle out the other. I remember this real well; Argus went (and
    naturally didn't cover it). Then Panther went right over where Argus
    went and covered it in a mountain. About a minute later when Panther
    was out of sight, Argus came back, smoothed out the mountain and
    urinated right over it. Talk about getting in the last "word".
    
    Deb 

    Bill,
    
    You might try this--cats, for some reason HATE tin foil.  Put a
    sheet down on each of his "spots".  Along with that, when he goes
    to the spots and finds them inassessible, put him in the litter
    box.
    
    My Billie used to get slaphappy and go on the floor beside the box,
    so when she got into one of those moods, I would put the foil down
    where she went.  Worked every time--she would gingerly step over
    the foil, and get in the box and go.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Jane

  There is an article in this month's Cat Fancy magazine about this very
  problem.  I haven't read it yet but it may give some ideas.
  
-Andy

    I ALSO SUFFER WITH A NEUTERED MALE HIMALAYIAN THAT DECIDED NEXT
    TO THE LITTER BOX WAS THE BEST PLACE TO GO - I TOO HAVE TRIED
    EVERYTHING FROM ADDING LITTER BOXES TO THE HOUSE - PUTTING MOTH
    BALLS IN HIS FAVORITE AREAS - SUPER-CLEANING THE LITTER BOXES AS
    WELL AS DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS OF ALL SORTS - THE END RESULT WAS HE'D
    JUST MOVE OVER A FEW INCHES OR FEET TO LEAVE ME A PRESENT.  I ALSO
    HAVE HIS MOTHER AND HIS SON AND ON OCCASION HIS SON DECIDED IT WAS
    A NICE THING TO DO ALTHOUGH IT IS RARE FOR HIM.  HIS OTHER NEW TRICK
    WAS TO SPRAY RIGHT NEXT TO THE DOOR GOING OUTSIDE - I BELIEVE BECAUSE
    OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD KITTYS THAT VISIT MY PORCH FROM TIME TO TIME.
    MY CRITTERS ARE ALL "FIXED" AND I THOUGHT MALES WOULDN'T SPRAY IF
    THEY WERE FIXED.  I TOO WOULD APPRECIATE A FIX TO THIS PROBLEM -
    MY TEMPORARY SOLUTION IS TO COVER THE FLOOR WITH PLASTIC ALL AROUND
    THE LITTER BOX AREA - AT LEAST IT HAS SAVED MY FLOOR FROM RUIN.
    OTHERWISE I COULDN'T ASK FOR BETTER HOUSEMATES THAN THEM
    
    SANDY
    

    Please refrain from using upper case.  It is difficult to
    read and is considered to be SHOUTING according to Notes
    Etiquette.  Thanks.
    
    donna

    Try feeding you cat where he poops illegally.  Cats don't like
    to "eliminate" where they eat.  If you can convert his favorite
    illegal toilet spot to a temporary lunch counter, he might quit
    using that spot as a toilet.  You might have to follow him around
    a couple of times as he changes locations for his illicit activities.
    
    How's the emply box working out?  Some cats really hate litter,
    for some reason.  Maybe you should change the kind of litter you
    use.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Laura

      One suggestion which did work for me. Cats generally seem to have
    to go after eating, so when I realized my offending kitty was apt
    to go do-do after his meal, I took advantage of this and placed
    him in his box after each meal. I stayed right there until he was
    done, explaining that he MUST go here. 
      Haven't had a do-do since, where it doesn't belong, except when
    the new kittens came on board, and that was only for a couple times.
    He quickly recovered from their presence.
    
                                 Denise
           

RE: .10

The empty box did not work.

Feeding him where he goes sounds like it might work.  I'll try that next.

Thanks, everyone for your suggestions.

Bill

    What do you mean?  Does he go somewhere else?
    What would happen if you locked him in the
    bathroom, with a box of course, for a couple
    of days?  Have you tried that?  Also, when
    you pick up the poops, have you tried depositing
    them in the box and then showing him?
    
    donna

    I have a problem with my cat using the litter box to poop, but using
    a corner of the dining room to pee!
    
    Let me explain what has happened. We moved into a townhouse a little
    over a year ago and had no place to put the computer terminal except
    the dining room table (or should I say card table?) Anyhow, I had
    a VT100 cover, one of this plastic covers, which I put over in the
    corner - that was the first and biggest mistake. I found out that
    cats, when the plastic has an ammonia smell, will urinate in that
    spot. When I noticed the smell, about a week later, I discovered
    that the plastic cover was coated with urine - not a pretty sight.
    
    I checked the carpeting, and it did not have a urine smell. Then
    about 2 weeks later, I started to smell the urine smell, and yes,
    he had decided the carpet was a GREAT place to pee!
    
    I have seeked advise from numerous people, as well as this file
    AND various animal organizations, and have tried the following:
    
    1. Disciplining him when I see him start to squat.
       * I caught him ONCE -- he must go now when I'm at work, cause
         he's NEVER in there when I'm home.
    
    2. Cleaning the carpet
       * I've SCRUBBED the carpet, thrown out the padding, BLEACHED
         cement underneath, and blocked off the area. He went AROUND
         the blocked off area, only making the current area LARGER!
    
    3. Aluminum foil
       * My other cat eats it -- not too nutritious
    
    
    Currently, since the opening to the dining room is about 3 feet
    wide, and six feet tall, I have a HUGE piece of cardboard covering
    the entrance. HOWEVER, the stench in the room is HORRIBLE! Tonight
    I'm going to try yet ANOTHER shampoo to try and get this stench
    out! It's starting to get through the entire house (it's a townhouse,
    so there's not much space for it NOT to go!).
    
    I'm also going to look for a few child guard gates - the ones with
    the fencing. I'll have to buy 2 tall ones in order to close off
    the area. But then again, it's going to make our decor look like
    early American prison!
    
    How do I keep the cat to stay away from the area and going there
    again when/if I get the odor which is there now out? What do I do
    in the meantime?  The other cat is WONDERFUL! She goes in the litter
    box.  (I also keep the litter box EXTREMELY CLEAN, emptying it out
    before I go to work AND after I get home! 
    
    I'm open for ANY suggestions -- (he was just checked at the vets
    a few weeks ago and no urinary problems). SHould I call my vet and
    ask him???
    
    HELP!!
    

    Be careful of those child gates. I've heard that kids can get their
    heads stuck in them, so I assume they can trap cats as well. I'd
    try dumping (really saturating) the carpet with rubbing alcohol,
    and then (perhaps temporarily) putting something over it that the
    cat can't get thru and that won't be appealing as an ersatz litter
    box.

    or, try one part white vinigar mixed with two parts warm water  that
    will neutralize the smell, but you will smell vinigar. You could
    try buying an enzymatic cleaner specificaly for pet urine odor.
    Any good pet store carries them (as do some vets).
    
    Deb

    
    	RE: 14 (I THINK)	
    
    	When I brought my kitten home, the first place he went to the
    	bathroom was in the corner of the living room.  Well, I put
    	the litter box over the spot where he went.  Maybe you should
    	try that.
    
    	Karen

    I did --- he went around it on the floor.
    
    I also tried 2 litterboxes -- same location and different location
    - still same result.
    
    

    
    .10 suggested putting his food in the spot where he urinates, to
    make that spot less attractive to him for that purpose... Have you
    tried that yet?
    
    Second, have you tried getting another litter box so each cat has
    his/her own box with own scent? 
    
    OR,  If it is his own urine smell that attracts him back there,
    maybe you shouldn't clean the litter box QUITE so often. 
    
    OR OR OR, perhaps you should sacrifice your VT100 cover completely
    (if you haven't discarded it already), and put that in a litterbox
    just for him... If it attracted him once, it might work again -you
    never know. 
    
    Good luck... I know you must be awfully frustrated by now... I sure
    hope SOMETHING solves the problem!
    
    Amy.
     

    
    oops, sorry. I guess my brain was in shut down when I read .18 that
    you had already tried two litter boxes...
    
    But I also meant to add, and I don't even know if they work... Have
    you thought of cat repellant sprays (for the corner) I don't know
    if they're so strong they'd make the cats avoid the entire room
    ??? Which may be overdoing it a bit!
    
    Amy 

    The repellant spray is the next thing.
    
    HOWEVER - in search of more and more ways to get the odor out, a
    girl from work has used a product called "Odor-B-Gone". She gave
    me a bottle of it today to try. She said the urine smell will be
    TERRIBLE at first, but will neutrilize the smell completely.
    
    Well, if this DOES work, I hope he hasn't grown so accustomed to
    the corner, and continue to go there. 
    
    If worst comes to worst, I will buy a door for the dining room --
    expensive, but it might be worth it.
    

    There was a recent article in one of the cat magazines (the Aug.
    Cat Fancy, I think, but I'm not at all sure) about the training
    of one cat to use a litter box.  I can't recall the entire article,
    but I do remember an important insight (for the cat discussed in
    the article):
    
    The problem wasn't stopping the cat from using the wrong area.  The
    problem was getting the cat to use the right place.  Instead of negative
    reinforcement when the cat used the wrong place, the author gave
    the cat positive reinforcement for learning to get into the litter
    box.  Previously, the cat absolutely hated being put into the litter
    box, and would instantly jump out.
    
    This may or may not be relevant to your case, but it might be worth
    thinking about.
    
       Gary

    Beware of using those child-guard gates -- cats can climb up some
    kinds. We had the same problem you're having, except that our cat had
    several favorite areas of the carpet, not just one.  We tried
    everything under the sun (I entered a note about it a while back, don't
    remember the number).  He's not under undue stress, he gets along with
    our other cat, we give him affection, praise him when he uses the
    litterbox, all to no avail.  We tried shutting him in the
    linoleum-tiled kitchen, using one of those gates--he climbed up it, and
    it was too short, anyway (didn't think to use another one on top).
    Finally we've had to resort to keeping him in a cage when we're not
    there and at night (since we can't trust him while we're sleeping).  I
    feel bad about it, especially about locking him up at night (he used to
    sleep next to my pillow, which was awfully cute), but compared to the
    hassles and smells, there's really no choice, other than putting him to
    sleep (how can I try to give him away to someone when he'll likely do
    the same thing somewhere else?).  The cage is good-sized and has a
    couple of platforms he can jump up on, so he's not really cramped.  But
    he can't roam around and play with our other cat when we're not home,
    which defeats the purpose for which we got him (as a companion for
    her). We also don't let him go in another room unless we're in there to
    keep an eye on him (the exceptions being the kitchen and bathroom,
    where the food and litterbox are, respectively).

    So, we're at a Mexican standoff, I guess.  A couple weeks ago I tried
    leaving him out of the cage overnight, but the next morning he'd left
    a lovely present in one of his usual corners (it was solid, not liquid,
    which was something to be grateful for, I guess).  So he still can't
    be trusted.  Sigh.......

    I sure hope you can get your problem solved.  Best of luck!

							-- Nina

    P.S.  Brookstone sells a carpet cleaner and a deodorizer (separate
    products, but are sold together) that I found worked quite well, if
    that's any consolation...

    re: .23
    
    You mentioned many possible causes, but not having him checked at
    the vet's for a physical problem.....
    

    RE < Note 656.24 by CIRCUS::KOLLING >
    
>    You mentioned many possible causes, but not having him checked at
>    the vet's for a physical problem.....
    
   I said (ahem) that "we tried everything under the sun" -- that included
   (though it was not explicitly mentioned, sorry) $75 worth of tests at
   the vet's, all of which came out negative.  We still gave him crystals
   and tablets for acidity (at the vet's suggestion), but they didn't help.

							-- Nina

    RE  .25
    
    Nina,
    
    *All* the tests came out negative???  THAT'S the problem.  Your
    cat is too negative!!
    
    Marion

    .25
    
    Yeah, some cats are so independent that they just won't go along
    with anything.
    
    

    RE .26  -- But of course!  That's it! (sound of hand slapping to
    forehead)  I will get him a copy of "The Power of Positive Thinking"
    and maybe that will do the trick!  :-)

    Sigh, I wish it were that easy.  Ah, well, we're moving to a new place
    tomorrow, and although I don't trust him enough to let him roam free
    when we're not there, I may let him outside (with supervision, since
    he's declawed and an indoor cat) for short periods and see whether that
    makes a difference.  I recall another note somewhere in here where the
    person had the same problem and the solution was to let the cat go
    outside (where he could "go" outside).  We'll see...

							-- Nina