Conference misery::feline_v1

my experience with low ash cat food has been Science Diet Feline Maintance 
available only through a pet food store.

"Ash" is water-insoluble residue that is left behind following 
combustion (i.e., burning) of the food.  As you might imagine, it is 
difficult for the cat's metabolic system to eliminate these residues, 
which is why a "low-ash" diet is desirable.

Most cat foods (at least, the good ones) have a nutritional and chemical 
analysis posted on the container.  "Low-ash" is obviously relative; most 
any food will have some ash content.  The objective is to keep it to a 
minimum.  Take a look at the foods you've been feeding, and see what the 
ash content is.  Note that dry foods may have a higher (by weight) ash 
content than semi-moist or moist (canned) foods, since they do not have 
as high a weight of water to start with.

Compare the commercial foods to the "special" diets.  If you can find a 
commercial food that is in the same general range, and your cats have 
not got a problem that requires a low-ash diet (neutered males often 
have urinary problems that require a low-ash diet), then you can feed 
the standard commercial cat food with little risk.  (Make sure, also, 
that it is nutritionally complete for CATS -- dog food often lacks some 
of the vitamins and minerals that cats need.)

Tom

When Hobbit had his urinary problems, I waded through a lot of 
literature on this subject. I seem to remember the literature 
recommended 4% or less was the acceptable percentage for ash 
content. 

Quite a few of the canned 9 Lives foods are below 4%. Savory 
Stew, Liver, Veal, and Fisherman's Stew are all below the 
minimum. Be wary of most of the fish varieties. They seem to have 
a higher ash content.

-nn

Most of the tinned cat-foods on the market are fairly low in ash.
I had heard that below 3% was the best - most non-fish catfoods
are in this range.  Some of the 9-lives and Buffet are at 2 and 2 1/2
percent, which is pretty good.

In order to help our neutered male cat gets enough water to help
eliminate the ash he does eat, we mix both cats' servings with some
water - enough to form a thin gravy in the chunky foods and a sort-of
soupy mix in the smoother ground foods.  (we do both since they will
sometimes switch bowls).  When we've gone away for a weekend and have
left them with dry food, I've noticed they begin to drink quite
a bit of water to make up for what they aren't getting in their food.

Curiously enough, the turkey varieties of canned food are higher in
ash than the meat/chicken ones.  But the fish are still worse.

--Louise

The urinary problem is NOT ash; it's an excess of magnesuim in the diat of 
an animal whose ancestors were semidesert creatures where there was a low
magnesium environment.  The magnesium excess in some cats forms a crystalline
mass (or individual crystals) in the bladder and urinary tract.

	The solution are low-magnesium foods.  These include C/D Feline
(available from vets only), Nine-Lives' Country Chicken, Chicken Dinner,
Kidney in Creamed Gravy, and Liver and Chicken; and Friskies' Buffet
Turkey & Gibklets and Beef & Liver.  CHECK WITH YOUR VETS FOR OTHER LOW-
MAGNESUIM FOODS.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

If I remember some of my college science courses correctly,and something
that I read recently, ASH is the term that is used generically to refer
to a variety of minerals, magnesium included.  So, while not technically
exact to say that ash contributes to urinary problems, it is not incorrect.
It is generally accepted that when referring to lo- or hi-ash contents of
food, it is implied that these are lo or hi in general mineral content,

magnesium included.

I think it was in a recent issue of CATS magazine that I read an article
on this, maybe not though.

Donna

re .6:

	It isn't exactly a nitopick, buty the point is "ash" alone is misleading
only because some forms of "ash" are not harmful, while others may be.  Any good
vet will be able to separate the benign canned foods from the less safe ones.

	And magnesiium seems to be the key factor.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

Yes, absolutely, magnesium is the key factor.  Also, one can't assume
that the percentage of magnesium in a so called lo-ash food is appro-
priately low enough since lo-ash simply means that the food has a low
overall mineral content.  But it's usually safe to say that the two

are directly related.

Donna

p.s. what is 'nitopick'?

I think he meant to say 'nit-pick'.

My fat cat, Merlin, had two major bouts with crystals.  When talking it
over with my vet, Dr. Clough, he explained that, yes, it was magnesium
in the food which may have caused the problem.  He prescribed Feline
C/D (only available from vets).  The first time Merl recuperated very
quickly until I made the stupid mistake of running out of C/D and switching
back to his favorite 9-lives (Western Menu).  Within a week Merl was 
suffering with a terrifying case of blockage.  A friend was taking care
of my kitties as I was on a business trip.  When I came home I found
Merl in the bathtub, unable to move, and blood under him.  Thanks to Dr
Clough he made it through the ordeal.  He's been back on the C/D for
two years and not a problem since.  All my kids get it (4 males and 2
females).  They like the taste and it isn't too expensive.  I buy by
the case and my vet gives me a 10% discount.  

I strongly suggest using C/D (dry or wet) if you have male cats.  It's
one less worry for me now.  I also have one strictly outdoor male and
I give him the dry C/D.  He, too, had found his way to me with a blocked
tract.  Here, the C/D didn't take care of it all, but once I got him
neutered there was no more problem.

Adios!
l.

I'm curious that you say that getting your last cat neutered helped
to stop the crystal/blockage problem.  I had heard that there was
an *increased* problem with male cats if they were neutered, supposedly
because of the scar tissue.  Does anyone know more about this?

--Louise

What is the difference between C/D and Science Diet cat food?

RE:  178.11

I was too much up in arms about Whiner (my outdoor male) to question Dr. Jean
about his getting neutered making a difference.  After 3-4 rushes to the
vet with him we were ready try anything to take care of the cystitis (isn't 
this called something different in males???).  Since I wanted to have him
fixed anyway we decided to go ahead.  It may have been a coincidence but it 
worked.  I'll check with my vets next time I visit as to why this helped
him out.

l.

RE: 178.12

C/D compared to Science Diet

Good question.  C/D is a specially formulated food restricted to prescription
by vet.  It's magnesium level is alot lower.  I may have been too hasty
in suggesting it, actually, as it's composition is one designed to take
care of special medical problems in cats.  I didn't think about that since
all my kids get it now, not just Merl and Whiner.  I should say that it
works great on my kids and one may want to check with their vets as to
the practicality of giving it to their beloved *children*.  Different animals
have different dietary requirements.  I get caught up in extolling the
virtues of C/D since it certainly has kept two of my boys in good health.

L.

re: 11

Neutering is given as a contributing factor to the blockage problem because
it could cause the cat's urinary tract to fail to reach full developement.
A male cats urethra is narrower anyway and its developement is governed in
part by the male hormones released during his adolescent growth. The lack
of testosterone may contribute to a narrower passage and a poorer tolerance
to blockage by crystal formations. 

That is the theory as I understand it. The Vets I have asked about it are
mixed and fairly neutral.


							.wIx.

    Our male neutered cat had this problem about 4 years ago.  After
    the vet unplugged him she suggested a lower ash diet.  However,
    she said that the data regarding ash was inconclusive.  She said
    that another suspicion was low water intake.  Since then we have
    fed Fosdick dry food in the morning mixed with several tablespoons
    of water and moist food in the evening (he likes to eat). The dry
    food is Purina Cat Chow which he loves.   Since then, no problems.
    
    Marty
    

  My parents'  vet  back  home also recommended that we not feed our
  neutered males dry cat food.

				Martin

    I'd like to add another cat food that is low-ash, low-magnesium
    and low-something-else (potassium maybe?).  It's called Old Mother
    Hubbard's Cat Food and doesn't require a prescription like some
    mentioned in this note (I buy it at a UCF in Littleton, MA).  Not
    too expensive and my four really like it.  If I recall correctly
    the ash level is 1.5% !  My one male has had problems in the past
    but he hasn't had any 'attacks' since switchng to this food some
    two or three years ago.  
    

    Where/what is UCF in Littleton, MA.
    Thanks

    Sorry, I guess that was a little cryptic!  The UCF is basically
    a feed and grain store that also carries pet foods, bird feeders,
    etc. -- stands for United Coop. Farmers I think.  It's located on
    Route 119, about a mile or two west of Route 495.  They also have
    free kittens from time to time, the source of my adorable double-pawed
    white-gray-orange bundle of energy!
    

    We stumbled onto UCF over the weekend.  They had a litter of kittens
    there on Saturday.
    Thanks again.

RE: .2

>"Ash" is water-insoluble residue that is left behind following 
>combustion (i.e., burning) of the food.  As you might imagine, it is 
>difficult for the cat's metabolic system to eliminate these residues, 
>which is why a "low-ash" diet is desirable.

The definition of "ash" here is correct, but the relationship of ash content
of food and feline urinary syndrome is more complex than that.  The ash left
over after burning food is never present in that form when the cat metabolizes
the food.  The ash after burning is metal oxides and salts.  It is purely a
measure of the amount of metal ions present in the food.  These metals,
particularly magnesium, form insoluble salts with various nitrogen-containing
organic substances in the body, such as urea and purines.  These salts
crystallize out of the urine as small, needle-sharp crystals.  These
crystals can cause irritation and blockage of the urinary passages.  The
best way to prevent formation of the crystals is to reduce the amount of
metal ions that are excreted in this form to the point where the salts remain
in solution in the urine and don't crystallize out.  Hence the emphasis on
diets low in magnesium ash to avoid FUS.

--PSW