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Conference misery::feline_v1

Title:Meower Power is Valuing Differences
Notice:FELINE_V1 is moving 1/11/94 5pm PST to MISERY
Moderator:MISERY::VANZUYLEN_RO
Created:Sun Feb 09 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 11 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5089
Total number of notes:60366

256.0. "Urinating in House" by CSC32::JOHNS () Mon May 26 1986 20:14

    Hi, I am new to this notes file and need advice.  I have had cats most
    of my life and have had relatively few problems.  My cats are indoor at
    night and outdoors in the daytime in quiet residential areas.  I have
    had only one or two cats at a time. Now the problem is that one or more
    of my cats is urinating in the house.  There are four cats now, so it
    makes it difficult to figure out which cat is causing the problem.
    
    There are 3 males, 1 female, all neutered. Ages are 2-4 years.  It's
    not that they don't have convenient and clean litter boxes - there are
    3 litter boxes in the house, but they will urinate on a dirty sheet or
    a folded quilt at the bottom of a closet a few feet from the box. 
    They also have urinated in the corner of the living room and sprayed
    on my guitar case or around the piano (no, it's not the way I play).
    These four are 2 households that came together, but they were together
    for months before this started.  It does not happen often, so the
    house doesn't reek, and we have sprayed lemon scent around the places
    most often hit to discourage the cats going there.  
    
    We suspect the top two cats of the hierarchy of being the culprits,
    as they have been in incriminating spots at the same time that we
    noticed the fresh urine.  One is almost a definate, as he was squatting
    on a sheet, although he was scooped up before he could do anything.
    At the time (a few days ago) he was recovering totally indoors after
    having one of his pads ripped open in a cat fight, and he LOVES
    to go outdoors.  I know he was irritable and bored, and I keep hoping
    that when he gets the stitches out and gets to go outside again
    that he will stop urinating in the wrong places.
    
    So, since I refuse to have a cat who urinates on my carpet it seems
    that the only solution is to make him/them (whoever all is responsible)
    an outdoor cat.  Even though I built an insulated cat house on the
    porch which can be heated in winter, I worry about losing him to
    a car at night, etc.  Is there anyone here who has been faced with
    such a dilemma?  Is there anything else I can try?

                                                 Carol
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256.1Some hope in sight?CLT::COLLINSTue May 27 1986 11:5623
    One of our three cats had started urinating in the house - always
    on some fabric or object that was lying on the floor in a place
    it should not have been. (For example, one evening I took our curtains
    down for cleaning, and while they were still on the floor Uggie
    urinated on them. Now at the time that this started, Uggie was not
    fixed yet, but it continued for about a month after he was neutered
    as well. When he was at the vets, I asked about this strange behavior,
    and the vet did a urinalysis, revealing that Uggie had, I think,
    too much protein in his urine. The vet prescribed some palatable
    medication that Uggie absolutely loved, but I'm not sure if it was
    the medication or the change in hormones that finally did it. I
    still watch him once when there's laundry on the floor or something,
    but it hasn't happened in quite a while, especially now that the
    cats go outside during the day and only come in at night.
    
    So my suggestions would be to talk to your vet about it, maybe have
    a urinalysis done, and hope that when your wounded kitty starts
    going outside again the problem will disappear. That sounds most
    likely to me.
    
    Good luck!
    
    /regina
256.2This solved our problem...KOALA::FAMULAROTue May 27 1986 17:1525
    We had a similiar problem with one of our three cats.  He'd let
    go on the rugs, on clothes (he liked clean clothes better than dirty
    clothes), and even on our bed (he found it more fun to do this when
    we were in it, especially during the early morning hours, say 2AM).
    Needless to say, it didn't take long for me to get upset.  This
    went on for several months before I read a medical book about cats.
    It mentioned urinating when-ever and where-ever could be caused
    by a cystitus problem (pardon my spelling if it is wrong).  Since
    the number 2 cat also did this every great once and a while I took
    both of them to the vets to have this checked out.  Sure enough
    both male cats had a cystitus problem.  The doctor gave us some
    medicine for the both of them, told us to place them on a low ash
    diet (Science Diet Maintenance, canned), allow them to drink only
    distilled water.  Within a few days all was well and we have not
    had a problem since.  We used some type of get the urine smell out
    of the rug spray, and rubbed baking soda into the rug several times
    to rid of the smell.
    
    You should have the cat(s) checked for this, esp. the males since
    they are more likely to develope this problem then the females.
    
    Hope things work out well for you.
    

    
256.3dry cat foodSTUBBI::REINKEWed May 28 1986 17:115
    I have occasionally had this problem with my cats. It usually happens
    when they have been fed dry cat food more than two times in a row.
    (I feed them dry occasionally to help prevent tooth tartar buildup.)
    When they are back on a diet of soft food the problem goes away.
    I have had them checked for cystitis - no problems so far.
256.4to really get rid of the odor...VAXWRK::SKALTSISDebThu May 29 1986 22:5611
    The cats might continue going in those same spots if there is some
    urine odor that they can smell. Sented air freshners mask the odors
    but I've found that to stop the cat from re-marking the area I've
    got to use something to actually get rid of the odor. I used to
    use a concentrate called "NIL-ODOR", but have since found a water
    soluable enzyme named called "Odor-Disposors" that actually gets
    rid of the urine smell and any associated bacteria odors. It leaves
    a mild, sweet smell. You can get it in most good sized pet stores.
    
    Deb
     
256.5An alternative cleanerSHOGUN::HEFFELGary HeffelfingerThu May 29 1986 23:2710
    I'm sure there's a note on this subject but I'll say it here anyway.
    A mixture of 1 part vinegar to 1 part of water sprayed on the offending
    spot(s) will actually break down the urine and will make the place
    smell better.  We've had problems with this from time to time and
    this solution seems to work well.  The store bought preparations
    may work slightly better but they are more than slightly more
    expensive.  The vinegar smell may be strong for awhile but it goes
    away in 1/2 a day or so.
    
    Gary
256.6No quick fix....CANYON::ABELSONFri May 30 1986 21:5726
    This is indeed a MAJOR problem as between the physical smell and
    the emotional expulsion, you'll want to "kill" the little bugger
    on sight.
    
    We had a similar problem which started out of nowhere. The major
    difference was our cat was poopin' and peein'! First, we tried some
    simple re-training. It seemed to work ok, but was short lived. Then
    we began leaving the cat in a spare bedroom with its food and a
    litter box. Again, this worked, but was very short lived (ie a month
    later it was back to the same old s**t!). Finally we went to the
    vet (about 1+ months had lapsed). He told us that it was one of two
    things: a) since the cat was fixed, it may have been a hormonal
    imbalance problem. This could be fixed by giving the cat birth-control
    pills! b) this was a standard way for cats to show their unhappiness
    with something and the only fix was to either figure out what it
    wanted and give it to them, or get rid of it. Well, we tried the
    bc pills and they had no effect. Then we separated our cats (we had
    gotten a second cat about 8 months prior to the problem). The problem
    stopped, so we got rid of the FIRST cat! (the one with the problem!).
    We have since replace the little bugger and both remaining are very
    happy.
    
    Hope this helps, but if I were you, I'd prepare myself to get rid
    of the PROBLEM....
    
    ta
256.7What???SHOGUN::HEFFELGary HeffelfingerSat May 31 1986 21:2147
    Re: .6
    
    <<Flame on>>
    
    Are you serious?!  "... get rid of the PROBLEM...."???  I have had
    it up to my neck with the attitude that pets are objects that can
    be gotten rid of at will.  Is a piece of furniture or a carpet worth
    more than the life and well-being of an animal that you have made
    a commitment to by bringing it home?  If so, then you have no business
    living with a cat.  Try a goldfish instead.  An animal should be
    every bit as much a commitment as a child.  Perhaps even more, because
    a pet depends on you all of its life, whereas a child can soon fend
    for him/herself.  You don't find too many people returning to the
    hospital a few weeks after a child is born to return it because
    it pissed on the sofa.  You love the child, you do all you can to
    help it, and if it continues to wet the sofa you continue to love
    it and continue to try to remedy the problem.  Why can't we afford
    our pets the same love and courtesy?
    
    I don't want to come down on you too hard because I realize that
    you did make a good effort to remedy the situation but your advocating
    getting rid of the cat as an option can't be left unchallenged. 
    There are people with far less fortitude who would have disposed
    of the cat long before you did, but that doesn't change the fact
    that there are shelters full of animals who didn't live up to their
    owner's expectations and were gotten rid of.
    
    <<Flame off>>
    
    I realize that my views can be considered somewhat extreme.  Trace
    and I treat our cats as family members.  (I balk at the word 'children'
    because we then get instantly branded as loonies, but it isn't far
    from the truth.)
    
    BTW, a few minutes ago I talked to Trace (tlh) about this situation
    and she was wondering what happened to your problem kitty?  She
    made the point that you might not be as horrible as I've made you
    out to be if you gave him/her to a good family.  Is he/she doing
    better now?  I can see cases where an animal might be better off
    in a new loving home, but I can't see cases where a cat should go
    to a shelter or be put to sleep or be dumped on the roadside
    because he was a problem cat.
    
    A billion "Sorry"'s if I came down on you unjustly.  This subject
    just sets me off.
    
    Gary
256.8Just my opinionCLT::COLLINSSledgehammerMon Jun 02 1986 13:1034
    re: .7
    
    I agree with the previous reply in that cats, or any pet in general,
    should not be discarded because it did not live up to its owner's
    expectations. The first cat my husband and I adopted was from a
    shelter - he was about 1 year old and one of the most wonderful
    and affectionate cats you could ever want to meet. I cannot see
    anyone giving that cat up - he had a wonderful disposition, a wonderful
    personality, and was in general the best animal I could ever have
    asked for. I often wonder why the previous owners gave him to the
    shelter.
    
    Our other adopted cat (Uggie) was also adopted from the Humane Society.
    He is one who also had a problem with urinating in the house. We
    did not "return" him when we had a problem with him - his previous
    owners gave him up because he was "too frisky" - well kittens generally
    are quite frisky and active - that comes with the territory! And
    the worst part is that not many people want to adopt older cats;
    Uggie was in the shelter for almost a month before we saw him -
    and he looked all grungy because he had been sleeping on newspaper
    so long, and now he is a wonderful cat and very affectionate and
    I would not give him up for anything. 
    
    The moral is that I don't think you can just toss away an animal
    if it "disappoints" you. If you have an allergic reaction to it,
    or if it hurts your children or something to that effect, then find
    a good home for it. But if you find yourself giving a cat away because
    it didn't live up to your expectations, or because it's no longer
    a cute kitten, then you shouldn't own a cat in the first place.
    (This is not directed at anyone - this is just my opinion because
    I hate to see animals placed in shelters because someone was
    disappointed with it after having it for a while.)
    
    /regina
256.9Still another opinionNAAD::SERRATomMon Jun 02 1986 20:2125
        I also must agree with the previous two replys, I don't feel
    there is ever a justification for 'getting rid' of an animal. All
    too often the lives of pets are taken too lightly. Why some people
    have such disregard for the life of an animal is beyond me. If you
    aren't prepared for the commitment, don't take on the responsibility.
    (I won't repeat the analogy of children, although well stated.)
        When Cathy (my wife) and I got or first cat, we had our hands
    full. This cat was a constant source of trouble. EVERY day TC would
    find something loose in the house and totally destroy it. (i.e.
    Turn the garbage can upside down and spread it every where.) We
    talked to the owner of the litter who told us that the whole litter
    was kind of wild and that all the other kitten's owners had given
    them up. This was not even a consideration for us - we were committed
    from the start. With patience we managed to finally overcome the
    problems and TC is a well adjusted family member.
        Shortly after we got Midnight, Cathy developed and alergy to
    cats (or an existing alergy got worse), again, getting rid of the
    cats was never considered. We still have both cats and are very
    happy with our decisions. (Cathy is actually talking about getting
    another one... good grief...)
        I just wanted to put my $.02 in since this is such a sore subject
    with me. Sorry if I was too wordy - but I'm not sorry if I offended
    someone!
    
         Tom
256.10My two cents...KOALA::FAMULAROTue Jun 03 1986 20:1616
    I can't help but put in my two cents...
    
    I look at it this way.  A problem pet presents a challenge.  I figure
    that I am smarter than any animal, and I'll be darned if an animal
    is going to get the best of me.  "Getting rid of" is another way
    of saying "I've been beaten by an animal, I don't have the intelligence
    to lick the problem so I'll just get rid of it."  Well, that might
    be ok for some people but not for this guy!
    
    Each of our cats has presented us with various problems.  Each one
    delt with patiently and in a kind and understanding manner.  Each
    problem has been overcome.  There is no problem that has overshadowed
    all the joy and special moments our cats have given us.

    And you can do it also, if your smarter than a cat...
    
256.11Ok, here's my respone...CANYON::ABELSONWed Jun 04 1986 00:5469
    With everyone "...putting their $.02 in" I can almost retire! I should
    write more counter-responses. Ok, you all asked for a response so
    here it is. Remember though, opinions are like noses -  everyone
    has one and no two are alike!
    
    First, we DID get rid of the problem - we gave the cat to a friend
    after 'trying her out'. It seems she "wanted to live alone". Chances
    are she was showing her unhappiness about having to live with another
    feline under the same roof. Too bad you all jumped to an inappropriate
    conclusion and thought I drowned her, sent her back to the hospital,
    put her to sleep, threw her to the wolves, etc. My! Such faith in our
    fellow man!           
    
    Second, although she was a warm, cuddly, friendly, cat she's just
    that - A CAT! I'm sure she "has feelings too", but lets keep this
    in perspective now. NOBODY said anything about children, or other
    human beings. Lets not get too anthropomorphic (look it up)! In
    the bottom line we would all be more willing to accept a problem
    child (adult for that matter) than a cat, regardless of how much
    we loved or cared for the cat. If you don't believe it, think of
    the old "Burning building" exercise: namely, if a building was on
    fire and it contained a person and an animal (cat, dog, or goldfish
    as was so aptly put before) and only ONE could be saved, which would
    it be? If you guessed animal, chances are you need some heavy help
    because your value system is out of kilt. Those of you who answered
    "Maybe a cat, but never a dog" are hypocrits for the sake of this
    argument. Those of you who answered "the person, of course" see
    my point. What is my point - you can't compare cats to people.
    Now refer to item three for an expansion of this point.
    
    Third, because we're talking about a non-human, yes the
    wonderful (and I do mean it!) feline, how long would any of YOU
    tolerate one pooping and peeing on your carpets, walls, bed, etc?
    Well a few months was all we could stand. The house WREEKED (sp?)
    from it. Guests would complain. It was at a point that a complete
    cleaning didn't help especially in light of the fact that as soon
    as you'd clean it up, she do it again! We're not talking about a
    pet which "didn't live up to its owner's expectations", we're talking
    about a real problem. Its easy to say "you wouldn't 'get rid of the
    problem' if you were in our shoes" or "if it were a child" but thats
    the point. It WASN'T a child, it was a CAT, and you weren't living
    with it like we were. Ask the person who wrote this topic how much
    longer she/he is willing to put up with the problem and what she/he
    might do when its too much to handle. Yes, its a loving, warm, friendly
    cat, but one who crapped on everything in the house. And simply
    because it WASN'T a child, "removing the problem" WAS an option.
    Remember, you can't compare children and cats. If you still think
    you can, refer back to item 2.
    
    Fourth (and finally) to those of you who said "...if you are smarter
    than a cat you could figure out a solution...", all I can say
    is that I know I'm smarter than any cat, aren't you? I assume those
    that entered their own response are, but maybe we should begin to
    ask since they don't seem terribly sure! 8-) (only teasing! Don't
    get your dander up!)
    
    Now you may think I'm being a hard-nose, but nowhere have you seen
    the word <<<FLAME ON!!!>>>. I'm being perfectly honest. I would
    no more consider killing a living thing, especially a caring pet,
    than any other reasonable person. But remember, we MUST be reasonable.
    If it were you, you'd probably have done the same thing.
    
    Now, lets go back to being friends. If you don't agree with my opinion,
    I'm truely sorry. If you do, I'm glad. But please don't look down
    the end of your nose at me, or "scold" me in these one-sided
    conversations. On to the next topic....
    
    Todd
    
256.12SHOGUN::HEFFELTracey HeffelfingerWed Jun 04 1986 12:5955
        Well I can't resist addressing a few points.  As for being 
    anthropomorphic about this, (and I didn't need to look it up by the
    way) it's not relevant to this discussion.  The fact that you think
    it is shows how very different our world views are.  You seem to
    think that our concern about the animals is because they are so
    like man.  (The anthropomorphic facet)  WRONG!  My world view is
    that cats (and other animals) are unique beings different from man
    but no less important.  People with my world view don't understand
    why anyone would assume that man is inherently more important than
    any other creature.  (Although I draw the line at roaches and Gary
    draws his line at snakes.  ;-))   Don't want to argue.  Just want you
    to realize how VERY different the assumptions behind these statements
    can be.  
    
    	As for the point about "how long would YOU put up with this?"...
    My husband (the one whose tirade started all this) and I put up
    with it for OVER A YEAR!  We DO know where you're coming from! 
    (And we had a chain reaction that got most of our 6 male cats
    involved!)  We still have to be very careful about the stresses
    on one cat in particular who's neurotic and two cats who have FUS,
    to keep it from starting up again.
    
    	Lastly, please note that Gary did apologize if he jumped to
    conclusions.  It's unfortunate that we've had enough cats dumped
    on our doorstep and worked at the shelter enough that we tend to
    assume that "get rid of" doesn't mean anything as benign as find
    a good home for.   
    
    	Rather than on to the next topic, how 'bout back to this one.
    It's been so long off the point that I don't remember what's been
    tried and what hasn't.
    
       1) See a vet.  We know from experience FUS can cause or exacerbate
    inappropriate urination.  
    
       2) Keep the litter boxes clean.  (I mean CLEAN.)  Scoop out solid
    waste once or twice a day.   Stir up the litter so it can dry and
    change it completely, often.
    
       3) If there is a "favorite spot", clean it thouroughly, then
    move a piece of furniture over it, if possible.  If that's not
    possible, try putting a food or water bowl on or near it.
    
    	4) Scold the cat if caught in the act.  PRAISE the cat for using
    the box.
    
    	5) Give the cat extra attention.
    
    	6) Pay attention to the timing. Does another cat smack him,
    then he walks away and does his job?  (i.e. look for stress that
    may cause the problem.)
    
    When I have more time, I'll try to put more suggestions in.
    
    tlh
256.13Dear Tracey:CANYON::ABELSONWed Jun 04 1986 17:2236
    Tracey - I'm sure you're a wonderful person, you're obviously intelligent
    and logical, so please accept my comments as MY opinion and do not
    take them personally. Now to address your points in reverse order:
    
    What to do about "the problem": we basically tried EVERYTHING you
    mentioned on your list in one form or another and although we got
    some positive results, they were all short lived. I too am
    sensitive to animals needs and consider myself an excellent pet
    owner.
    
    Relative to the point as to HOW long you've lived with "the problem"
    my only response is that your comfort zone is obvious longer (and
    different) from mine. I'm sure there are other things we feel the
    reverse about - traffic, bad whether, whatever. The point is that
    you (like me) have only two choices assuming you are actively
    pursuring a solution: a) live with the problem until it is resolved
    (if ever), b) resolve the problem thru alternative means even though
    they may not be the most desirable. Yes, you lived (and are continuing
    to live) with the problem for one year - more power to you. My wife
    and I could only stand a few months. Also, make no mistake - giving
    the cat away was NOT easy for either if us.
    
    Finally, and maybe most important point, is our differing opinion
    on where Man and Animal stand on the social scale. I can see your
    point completely and agree with it on many planes. However, I cannot
    place animals on the same level as man in all areas. This happens
    to be one of those situations. As a wise man once said:
    
    			"Aye, there lies the rub"!
    
    Thanks for your comments and feedback...
    
    Todd A.
    
    
    
256.14How far does your caring extend?LOOKUP::ICSGita DeviWed Jun 04 1986 19:1114
After reading this discussion, which certainly covered a lot more than cats 
urinating in the house, I'd like to ask a question to everyone:  are you
vegetarians?

If you have so much love and concern for your pets, then it's logical to 
extend that love to all animals.  

I made that transition more than 12 years ago, and have never regretted it 
since.  

I guess you could say that I've also added my 2 cents worth.

Gita Devi    

256.16Mined Out!INK::KALLISWed Jun 04 1986 20:098
    re .15, .15:
    
    Yes, let's end this tack.
    
    I would point out that my cats are carnivores, however. :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
256.17Violent agreement strikes againSHOGUN::HEFFELTracey HeffelfingerWed Jun 04 1986 20:1251
    < Note 256.13 by CANYON::ABELSON >
                               -< Dear Tracey: >-

   > Tracey - I'm sure you're a wonderful person, you're obviously intelligent
   > and logical, so please accept my comments as MY opinion and do not
   > take them personally.
    
         I thought I was.  Oh well. ;-)  (Oh OK, I'll admit I was a
      snippy about looking up anthropomorphic.)
    
  >      Relative to the point as to HOW long you've lived with "the problem"
  >  my only response is that your comfort zone is obvious longer (and
  >  different) from mine. I'm sure there are other things we feel the
  >  reverse about - traffic, bad whether, whatever. The point is that
  >  you (like me) have only two choices assuming you are actively
  >  pursuring a solution: a) live with the problem until it is resolved
  >  (if ever), b) resolve the problem thru alternative means even though
  >  they may not be the most desirable. Yes, you lived (and are continuing
  >  to live) with the problem for one year - more power to you. My wife
  >  and I could only stand a few months. Also, make no mistake - giving
  >  the cat away was NOT easy for either if us.
 
          Two points about this.  1) I wasn't try to prove who's holier than
       whom in their tolerance levels or to say that you should have
       stuck with it longer or anything like that.  I was addressing 
       someone's statement about "don't judge til you've stood in their
       shoes."  Some of us have lived through it.  Just as we shouldn't
       assume that "getting rid of" doesn't mean give to a good home, you
       shouldn't assume that we are standing on the sidelines judging
       with no experience.  2) If you'll look back through this note,
       you'll not see a single word from me condemning you for giving
       the cat away.  (In fact if you'll reread the tirade that started
       all this, you'll note that my first reaction was to ask Gary
       what was meant by "get rid off".  AND THAT GIVING TO A GOOD HOME
       WAS OK.)  If you'll read my note on the indoor/outdoor question,
       you'll see that we actually considered giving a cat away. 
                                                                 
    
          The upshot of this is that I'm not saying some of the things
    you think I am.  I think we're actually in "violent agreement" as
    the saying goes.
    
    tlh
    
    P.S.  I rarely ever take one side in an arguement.  But most poeple
    assume if I throw in points for one side, I'm taking that side.
    Not so.  Sometimes I'm straddling the fence and can see both sides.
    Sometimes I just like playing devil's advocate.  Guess I'll just
    have to state up front what "side" I'm on, if any, to avoid this
    inthe future.
    
256.18The originator replys:CSC32::JOHNSWed Jun 04 1986 23:5936
    Thank you Deb, Tracey and others for your advice.  If anyone else
    has advice concerning the original topic I would still appreciate
    it.  I have spoken to my vet about this as you all suggested.  He 
    is of the bent that it is a behavioral problem.  I plan on trying
    the other suggestions given also.  It never even occured to me that
    the FUS (is this feline urinary syndrome?) might have an affect.  
    As a matter of fact the two cats we suspect most both have this 
    illness/disease and are both on an exclusive diet of canned C/D.  
    
    Incidentally, Fillmore, the cat most suspected of the urination,
    is my favorite cat of the bunch and you can bet that I will not give 
    him up.  However, Tyler, the number two cat in our cats' own hierarchy,
    spends so much of his time with our next door neighbors who spoil him 
    silly that we have CONSIDERED offering him to them if we find that 
    he has been the culprit all along or if his spraying/urinating 
    increases significantly.  However, it is hard for me to imagine giving 
    up one of our animals.  The exception would be if none of our attempts 
    to keep him from urinating in the house were successful,and then 
    giving him away would be an alternative to the dangers inherent in 
    making him a totally outdoor cat.

    Another consideration is to have the cat(s) who is urinating to
    spend any indoor time on the porch, not in the rest of the house
    with the others.  This would be an indoor porch which can be cool
    in the summer and warm in the winter.  The cats currently sleep
    in the two porches every night.  Of course, if you remember my original
    note, you will remember that they are outdoors during the day.
    
    So, again thank you.  There have been no more problems since I wrote
    the original note, but that is not unusual since the problem is
    sporadic.  I still can't understand why it seems to be the cats
    in the top in the hierarchy who seem to have the problem.  Their 
    positions seem fairly set so they wouldn't have the remind the other 
    cats that they are on top.
    
                     Carol
256.19FUS is a real possibilityVAXWRK::SKALTSISDebThu Jun 05 1986 20:089
    FUS is a real possibility; even though my Argus is on an exclusive
    diet of dry C/D and moist s/d, experience has told me that anytime
    I find a puddle on the floor to bring him into the vet who puts
    him on urine acidifer pills for a few days. (Everytime I've just
    cleaned up and ignored the problem, Gus has wound up vacationing
    at the vet for a few weeks at a time).   
    
    Deb
    
256.20Alternative remedyINK::KALLISThu Jun 05 1986 20:4815
    re .19:
    
    a good urine acidifier pill os a plain old vitamin C tablet (my
    vet said 100 mg pills would be okay).  The ascorbic acid (vit. c)
    goes through to the bladder and acidifies the urine.
    
    Good to know on holidays or when traveling.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.: I have three cats (I lost a couple) who _don't_ have FUS,
    but who adore C/D dry.  So it's part of their diet.
    
    -S
    
256.21My last reply on this subject. Really :^)SHOGUN::HEFFELGary HeffelfingerFri Jun 06 1986 01:1712
    I'm sorry that my infamous flame caused such a discussion.  It is
    perhaps quite fortunate that I've been gone for the last week and
    that it has all been played out.  My tongue (er..fingers) might
    have gotten me into more trouble than it was worth.  I sometimes
    don't stop to think first and such was the case a week ago when
    my mind immediately thought "shelter" or "roadside" rather than
    "good home".  I should have remembered what conference I was in
    and the good people who note there.
    
    On with the real topic here....
    
    Gary
256.22I'm glad we're all friends again ;-)VAXWRK::DUDLEYFri Jun 06 1986 20:5218
    Gary,  I personally don't feel you have any need to apologize. 
    Though Todd redeemed himself in subsequent notes, certainly
    the wording and tone of his first note does not give any in-
    dication that it was difficult for him to give this cat away.
    Quite the opposite.  I found his note to be incredibly callous.
    "We got rid of the PROBLEM..." is callous, period.  It's not the
    same as saying something like  'we had to give this cat away'.
    
    Sometimes the written word does not really say or express what
    you really want.  A lot of people simply don't write well and
    therefore it's easy to misinterpret and misunderstand what they
    write.  After hearing more from Todd, I concluded that his first
    note was just not written very well.  (Just MY opinion Todd. :-)
    , no offense intended).
    
    Regards,
    Donna
    
256.23Dear Tracey (continued):CANYON::ABELSONWhy Waltz when you can Rock &amp; Roll?Fri Jun 06 1986 23:5713
    What can I say? I think you're right! We do seem to be in agreement.
    But after all, that's what I hate about "NOTES". Its tough to remember
    all the little details 6 days after the original note.
    
    Pls tell your hubby that I read his note and understand his concern.
    It displayed the concerns of someone with conviction. Relative to our
    discussion, I am humbled. Here's another suggestion - get a dog!
    The cats will be so worried they won't have time to worry about
    territorial disputes! (8-^) - (tongue-in-cheek!)
    
    Love and kisses,
    Todd
    
256.24Uggie's revenge!DSSDEV::COLLINSMon Jun 09 1986 14:4030
	Well I guess we should get back to the "urinating cat" for those out 
there that have this problem or might encounter it in the future.

	As my wife (CLT::COLLINS) mentioned, one of our cats (Uggie) has this 
problem. I didn't say "had" since at 5:12am this morning he pissed on my leg. 
Yes he pissed, in the afternoon you may call it "urinating" but at 5:12am it 
is definitly piss. I didn't hit the cat (though if hitting him would've made 
the piss go away I would've belted him). The reason for this (and the reason 
for all the other occurences) is when Uggie is "pissed" at us. We left for a 4 
day weekend and locked the cats indoors with plenty of food and water (and a 
cousin to drop in and check on things). Our cats being outdoor cats don't take 
kindly to this and Uggie has this unique way of showing it. I'm sure many cat 
owners out there can attest to the fact that cats can show their disproval of 
*our* actions in rather unpleasent ways (urinating, puking, etc..). In our 
normal day to day routine, Uggie is a gem, no problem at all and quite 
affectionate. But after leaving them inside for a weekend (or some other 
change of routine) Uggie does his number (generally on *ME* early in the 
morning). I show him the spot and say "NO" but he knows what he's done and 
hasn't stopped it yet. I have never hit him (I sometimes marvel at my 
restraint!) since that won't solve the problem and will probably aggravate it.

	So to wrap it all up for those of you who have cats that infrequently 
urinate, see if you notice a pattern (not in the urination but when they do 
it). At lease you'll know when they are apt to do it and be prepared to 
discipline them at the time (again hitting a cat doesn't help, if you do that 
they'll move behind a couch where you can't see them).

/harry