Conference misery::feline_v1

    A diet of people food, can be very 

    
    
    very what???  wha' hoppened??  a diet of people food can be very ...
    i have a feeling you were about to say 'bad' for a cat ... if raw
    chicken livers is bad for him i want to know, also, how to retrain him
    to eat catfood??  
    
    also, i've removed ticks from myself using a stick of lit inscence,
    as well as tweezers, but thought that might hurt too much for wanda.. 
    i sprayed some flea and tick stuff on her, but the lumps (tick shaped
    lumps) are still there.  the vet said she was very clean and didn't
    have any flea dirt or ear mites ... why didn't i notice these 'lumps'
    when she was in???  
    
    re: .1  ... did the cat get your tongue???   ;')  hope you can find
    time to finish your reply.  thanks,
    
    j/r/w
    

    Yup, got cut off!!!  
    
    Anyway, a diet of only people food can be very harmful, since cats
    require high levels of protein, and many vitamins that aren't commonly
    found in our food, taurine for instance.
    
    You might have to wait him out.....and just give him cat food....when
    he's hungry enough, he will eat!  You might have to put up with him
    till then though!  You might want to also try mixing the chicken livers
    with cat food and seeing if he'll eat them that way.
    
    Now, if it's raw meat he likes, you can always buy a raw meat mixture
    that's made for cats, Showbound makes one, and many of the meat
    companies also have it available.  Showbound is available from
    Haddleigh House, it comes frozen.  Haddleigh # is 800-752-7670.  or you
    may also be able to add kitty vitamins to what your feeding now.  I
    would definitely discuss this problem with your vet....s/he may have
    some other suggestions.
    
    cin
    

    I would stop putting flea/tick stuff on Rocky and maybe have the vet
    deal with the ticks.  Some cats have terrible reactions to flea/tick 
    stuff, including death.  With Rocky poorly, that stuff is good to stay
    far away from.
    
    I believe there is some fairly simple method of getting rid of ticks,
    but I can't recall it at the moment (a drop of alcohol?).  I do recollect
    that pulling them out is the very hard way.
    
                                                            

    listnesses and lack of appetite are two of the warning signs in a cat.
    If he's still dragging around and not eating I think another trip to
    the vet is in order.  If you can take his temperature that would also
    be a very good idea.  However, I found that that's easier said than
    done.  Jo Cordes-Brown has a great method:
    
    Put the cat on an ironing board or some other surface that is a 
    comfortable height.  Pin the cat against your left side with your
    left arm/elbow.  Use your left hand to hold the cat's tail up.  Use
    your right hand to insert the thermometer (please lubricate it first
    with KY or vaseline) and count to about 60.  Longer if the cat will
    let you.  A cat's normal temp is around 101-102.  If its any higher
    he is sick, if its down around 99 then he's about to deliver
    kittens....  NO WAIT - That was Halie. :-))))  
    
    seriously - try getting his temp.
      Nancy DC

    Excuse me - that should have been LISTLESSNESS - I need more coffee.

    When in doubt, take 'em to the vet.  
    
    Aside from that, a few observations.  Nippa will not eat in this
    weather (although I know she suplements her diet daily ;*) - and
    to tell you the truth....neither will I.  She was also raised on 
    fresh tuna and cream.....so I can relate about the cat food bit.
    On top of it, she seems to be sensitive/allergic to most types of
    prepared foods and fish.
    
    My vet suggested boiled chicken breast or the strained chicken
    baby food.  I usually mix in a supplement and bran as well.  I have
    eventually found a dry food she'll eat.  I could go on about this
    topic, because she has been a challenge in this area (but my friend's
    cats benefitted)....anyway, if you want more info, let me know and I'll
    be glad to share some of the tips I've picked  up.
    
    Michele & Nippa (the finicky one)
    
    p.s.
    
    The vet said I could pour some of the tuna water (not oi) in a dish or
    over her food from time to time, as a *treat*.  It has too much iodine
    or something which is harmful to the cat if fed continuously.

Michele, or anyone that has a suggestion:

what supplements do you use?

I need to go the home-made route for Aubrey.  I know I won't 
keep the complicated kitty casseroles made up, but I also know 
that if I just feed her chicken and mackeral she won't be
getting everything she needs.

thanks,

z

    RE: .8
    
    
    As far as supplementing people food as the whole diet for cats, I
    would consult w/ your vet and/or get a book on feline nutrition.
    
    I stopped giving Nippa the chicken breast, because it is not a good
    longterm food solution (plus it's a pain in the behind).  I supplement
    the baby food with bran (I use the same bran I give my horses, although
    I know there is another noter who uses something from the grocery store
    - and I can't remember who it is) and Linatone.  Right now she is
    eating meow mix (dry), and I break up a pet tab jr into bite size
    chunks and put them into her food a few times a week.  I got a sample 
    of the pet tab granules to mix into the baby food, but I didn't like 
    mixing several `supplements' together.....resulting in over supplementing 
    and harming her.
    
    I would prefer to feed her a better quality food and not supplement at
    all, but she won't eat the ones I've tried (w/out ethoxyquin.....although 
    I know she loves Iams).  The linatone seems to counteract the less
    quality food and her resulting coat appearance (someone please correct 
    me if I'm wrong).  She has a thick fluffy undercoat and a medium over
    coat, but is classified as a DSH.  The undercoat is a real killer on
    my allergies when dry and lacking luster.
    
    My old vet thinks cat food is cat food, and all are basically the same,
    except the stuff he sells ;*), and supplementing is not necessary. 
    However a pet tab or two a week won't kill her.  And, like I said, I've 
    noticed a big difference in her coat quality (and my allergies) w/ the 
    linatone.  Several of the breeders may have more ideas or different 
    opinions, but they are the ones who gave me the info I started with.
    
    Anyway, becareful if and what you decide to supplement.  The results
    from over supplementing are far worse than undersupplementing. 
    
    Michele (who know's tons about supplementing horses diets, but can't
    find much on the kitty diet) and Nippa (the finicky eater)

    I've become a believer in blood profiles since they can tell alot
    about whats going on internally. If there is any infection or 
    disease related attacks going on the test results will save you
    lot's of guess work. It also has the benefit of giving your vet
    a baseline comparison as the cat gets older.  Also don't forget
    a hairball can mess up a cat so vasi 2-3 times for a week won't
    hurt but I wouldn't be experimenting with diet let the vet deal
    with it (we didn't send him/her to school for nothing).

    
    
    thank you all for your suggestions ... i will give rocky some hairball
    salve tonight ... he likes it usually ... maybe his tum is full of hair
    and that's why he isn't hungry ... he's a coon cat and has long fur ..
    plus it is shedding time ... i don't know if i mentioned it, but when
    rocky first started being finicky i took him to the vet's and he had
    bloodwork ... they couldn't find anything wrong with him ... he's 
    eating more, but only the things he likes ... yesterday if gave him a
    spoonful of kitty food and he kinda liked it and voluntarily at another
    bite, but that was it ..
    
    also, i put alcohol on the bumps that i think are ticks on wanda, but
    they didn't budge.  anna said they might be burrowed too deep ... so,
    i'm going to try alcohol, plus a hot needle close to the backside of
    the tick (not touching) ... supposedly this will make them turn tail.
    i was disappointed about the alcohol cause that would have been so 
    easy  :'(   if this doesn't work she's going to the vets, and rocky
    too.  ... oh, i just called the vets and they said just 'yank' them
    really hard .. that the head staying in is a myth!!! still that sounds
    a bit painful, but i want to get them off her.  
    
    boy, kitties can produce a lot of anxiety sometimes!!!  but, i wouldn't
    trade 'em in, nuh uh.  8'}
    
    thanks again for your advice .. i'll see if i can get some frozen raw
    catfood for rocky at the pet store or vets.  
    
    janice, rocky & wicked wanda (she's got a gleam in her eye  ;')  )
    

    
    Hi Janice,
    
    Please, when you try to get the ticks off of poor Wanda, put the hot
    needle ON the FRONT end of the tick.  They will let go, be sure you
    have the back end held firmly in the grip of a pair of tweezers and a
    small bowl of rubbing alchol to deposit the tick in. 
    
    Your vet is mistaken.  Please, DO NOT JUST YANK the tick out.  The head
    end can and does stay behind and can cause an infection or absess.  I
    have seen it happen.  So if the hot needle trick doesn't work, maybe
    try a grooming shop that has delt with ticks and will do a grooming,
    and tick dip at the same time.  
    
    Didn't mean to shout but I'm afraid your vet hasn't delt with a lot of
    cases of ticks it's no fun! :-(
    
    Feline helpful,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
    

Although we have been fortunate for the last few years and haven't had any ticks
show up, in past years we were in the running for the title "Most ticks on a dog
in one day in Massachusetts" -- and we always just pulled them out with 
tweezers.  Never had any problems with that method, no infections or anything;

I would guess that the trick is to grasp the tick down near the head and be sure
you have a firm grip before pulling.  We have had at least two vets, in whom we
had the utmost confidence, say that was the "proper" method of tick removal.  
The other suggestions I've heard of coating them in oil or vaseline doesn't work
quickly and it isn't likely that you and your pet will sit there watching until
they finally do let go, which means that if and when it works they just get to
wander over to a new site and try again.  And putting a hot needle (or similar
hot item) is just as likely to wind up burning you or your pet as it is likely 
to get the tick.  Obviously your success will vary depending on how steady your 
pet is and how well you aim, but I personally thought I was more likely to hurt 
them (or me!) than get the tick.

Just had to put in a vote for the simple "yank" method of tick removal!



Jan

I think our record was something like 35-40 in one night, combined total for
three large dogs (for some reason our small dog didn't get any that night).

    After you get the tick off, you may want to call your vet and inquire
    about the symptoms of Lyme disease, and what the incidence of it
    is in your area.
    
    Jo

    I remember yanking some off of Jesse.  There was one particularly
    stubborn one and I took my scissors and cut it down close to the
    skin.  Now I KNOW this wasn't a good idea.  What I did to help prevent
    infection was dab Neosporin or some triple antibiotic ointment on
    the spot every day when Jesse showed up for food.  It was on the 
    top of his head - and never got infected.
    
    I certainly don't advocate this method of removing the tic - the
    point is that you could try putting some antibiotic ointment on
    the area - provided there's no danger of the cat ingesting too much
    of it.
      Nancy DC

I haven't read all the replies, but I haven't seen my family's old remedy:
hold a lighted match to the tick.  The heat inspires him to let go so 
you can easily pull him out.  Then kill it.  You don't have to get it close 
enough to burn fur.  However, for a long haired cat, I would trim a little 
spot so you can get close enough.  

    I saw a News program on TV this past weekend, in it they were
    explaining how to remove a Tick, from Human children of course, but the
    big thing that seemed to be stressed the most was PULL GENTLY and use
    curved tweezers or "kelly" clamps!  That way the thing will come out 
    intact.  The alcohol was also mentioned, but I don't know about your 
    four-footed friend, but mine won't stay within a yard of any alcohol.  I 
    second the vote for anitbiotic ointment, provided they don't ingest too
    much.  Neosporin is probably the best single type or the triple kind
    is good as well.  As I see it, it can't hurt anything and might
    certainly help. (My son's pedi sugeon insists this be on every
    incision he makes!)
    
    Lyn, Holly-kitty and Bandid ("the baby-kitty")
    who_lives_in_the_country_and_hopes_never_to_encounter_a_tick!!

    I just heard that there is a vaccine against Lyme Disease for dogs.
    The vaccine is offered from Fort Dodge, and is called Borrelia
    Burgdorferi Bacterin, and is given in 1 ml doses given at two to
    three week intervals, and then annually.
    
    Don't know if there is anything for cats yet.  
    
    E.T.

    
    i have some bad news ... i did at your suggestions take rocky back for
    full blood work and he had a bad kidney infection ... he was on a drip
    for a week and started to feel better.  i visited him everyday and was
    hopeful because he started to be his old affectionate, purry self
    again, and was eating more, but after a week of treatment he came home
    and after a couple days he started eating less again ..  we tried to
    appeal to his appetite but the vet said that she didn't know if his
    kidneys would be permanently damaged or not ... apparently they were,
    cause once he was off the drip he declined again ... we kept our hopes
    up, but started talking about having him put out of his misery ... and
    ours (it was no fun watching our rocky waste away to nothing and look
    so unenthusiastic), but dave let him out one day ... and we haven't
    seen him since ... that was almost two weeks ago.  we both think he's
    gone to the happy hunting grounds ... i had a dream about rocky two
    days after his disappearance in which he was purring and eating hot
    dogs.  it may have been his message to me that he's happy now, and not
    suffering.  i miss him a lot and will never forget one heck of a
    putter.  
    
    i think wanda missed him too for awhile, but she's not the
    sort to dwell on things, unless they be crickets, shrews, etc....
    as for wanda's ticks, they turned out to be scabs that had fur embedded
    in them ... she's very territorial, even though she's been spayed and
    gets her hackles up over both cats and dogs.  i have a feeling that the
    male that came around before she was spayed is stilll coming around and
    doesn't know the difference???
    
    
    anyway, thanks for your advise and good wishes for the rocker ... he's
    probably reincarnated as a restauranter so he can eat anything and 
    everything he wants this time around 8')   
    
    janice and wanda and rocky's happy memories ... yeah, that's easy to 
    write, but howcum it's raining in here????
     

    Our deepest condolences to Rocky and the family.  This must have 
    been so hard for you.  Please keep those wonderful memories of Rocky 
    close to you because as time goes by...those memories will always
    be with you.
    
    So sorry  
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, and Barkley)  

    I've added Rocky's name to the silver lining memorial list.  I'm
    very sorry to hear of your loss.
      Nancy DC

    Sorry to hear it had such a sad ending.  He probably knew, that's why
    he went off like that.
    
    Try to think of all the good time you had with him.
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Karen (and Georgie)  
     

    so sorry to hear about rocky.  it's tough not knowing *for sure* what
    happened, but i agree that they go off like that when they know they 
    are in bad shape.
    
    our condolences.
    
    diane, stella and stanley
    

    My neighbors dog did that, and they found her a few days later.
    
    We're so sorry to hear about rocky......Michele & Nippa
    

    
    
    thank you all for your condolensces .. and especially thanks to nancy
    for putting rocky on the silver lining memorial list ... i know he's
    honored to be there ... 
    
    it still feels kinda empty without rocky and i want another putter,
    but, alas, my husband (the practical one) says to wait til we have
    our own house .. then we can have as many putters as we want ... i 
    think about 4 would be a nice even number  ;') ... i know some of
    you have even more than 4!!!  i think that's great.  
    
    wanda is doing fine and is very affectionate and playful (as usual) ..
    she's my little alarm clock, too ... she wakes me up about 6:00 when
    i don't hear my alarm (a little digital peeper .. you have to be awake
    to hear it) ... but she gives me kisses and starts kneading me around
    that time every morning (except weekends when i reluctantly shut the
    bedroom door) ... or, just get up and feed her and let her go out and
    play, then catch a few more zzz's ...  
    
    i've talked to a person recently about communication with pets, but
    that's probably discussed in another note somewhere, wanda does send
    me pictures of herself on the deck when she wants to come in, and a
    few times i've received them out of the blue ... now i am practicing
    sending her pictures if i want her to come sit with me so i can give
    her love ... she may have received one once (maybe she received them 
    all and only chose to come once???) cause she looked up at me with
    half-closed eyes then walked over to me ... it's fascinating to
    ponder opening the communications between kitty/people and human/people
    
    anyway, thanks for your sympathy and caring
    
    janice and wanda the wonderful