Conference misery::feline_v1

    Very good article on what is being called the "Yuppie petfoods"
    market.  I have a copy of the article if anyone is interested
    in reading the whole thing....There is no proof that this food
    is better for our pets, and even implies that it may make an
    America full of fat housepets....
    
    Lynne

    That disagrees both with what my vet says and my own experience with
    several cats who have had zero problems with FUS while they are being
    fed Hills CD, as oppposed to recurring problems when fed "regular"
    canned foods.
    

    I believe it was 20/20 (or one of those night time news shows) that had
    a show on last weeek stating the same thing, (that the premium foods
    are no better than the supermarket brands). While they presented the
    info in a very logical & believable way, I still had reservations as to
    whether or not I believed it. They talked about the ingredients that 
    went into the food, but never mentioned things like Taurine, ash
    content, or magnesium (sp?). These are the things I'm most concerned
    about when buying my girls the food they eat, not whether the meat came
    from a horse, cow, or a chicken. Did anyone else see this show?
    
    Bonnie

    I find this hard to believe as well.  I see a vast difference in my
    cats' overall health when eating the premium quality foods vs.
    supermarket brands.  For one, their stools are firmer and less stinky! 
    And they have shinier, silkier coats.  Two of my neighbors have cats
    that are fed supermarket brands.  Neighbor 1 feeds Deli Cat dry,
    always, and a variety of canned.  Neighbor 2 feeds Crave dry, always,
    and Fancy Feast and 9-Lives canned, always.  Their cats have very
    scruffy, dry, scrappy looking coats.  There is a NOTICEABLE difference
    in my opinion.
    

    I've fed my husky-shepherd (now 10 years old) premium, Hill's-type
    nuggets for two reasons -- first, she has lots of wet-burps and does a
    lot of gacking on supermarket varieties; second, I can pick her
    droppings up off the grass ... with supermarket stuff it's simply not
    pickable ... needs to be hosed down the street.
    
    With my new kids (the feral strays from Maine) ... I let them choose
    which they preferred ... Friskies or Science Diet.  They left the bowl
    of Friskies for the dog.
    
    So, for my convenience, the dog's digestion and the kittens' taste,
    I'll continue to pay the price of the premium.
    
    Jo-Ann and Omega, and the Maine-iacs (Silverado, Charlemar, Duffy)

    I agree that the Science Diet and IAMS foods are vastly superior
    products than those found on supermarket shelves.  I don't believe, as
    the article states, that my choice is due to self-image, but rather a
    deep concern for the health and well-being of my animals.  I notice,
    too, the silky and shiny coats my three kittens have (like the previous
    noter).  Also, like her, I notice that the stools are firmer and don't
    smell as much.  One day, on a visit to their "cousin Bandits" house,
    they managed to eat his Fancy FEast.  For a full two days afterwards I
    could barely stand to be in the room where their litter was, and
    cleaning the boxes was a CHORE!  Diarrea was the result.  
    
    I do have to say, however, that since Bandit (my mom's cat) has been on
    MAX CAT dry, he has gained several pounds.  I think it might be very
    high in protein, and my mom's vet has suggested putting Bandy onto
    the Science Diet R/D ASAP!  He is over 15 pounds, and the vet states no
    cat (except perhaps a larger breed like a Maine Coon) should be over 
    10 pounds!
    
    Anyway, I will continue to feed my three IAMS and Science Diet.  IAMS
    is meat based and Science Diet is grain based.  Different philosophies,
    but mixed together I think I strike a happy medium.  
    
    Nancy, Marty Bear, Zuzu Petals and Suki

    I wish I could enter the whole article, because it hits upon
    the shiny coats (fat content) and making pets overweight...
    
    L- 

what many pet food buyers do not know is that the source of protein for a food
can come from:

	1) animal meats
	2) animal by-products
	3) animal protein meal

these are vastly different things -- and many of the supermarket variety of
pet foods source their protein from things like poultry feathers (processed
to a meal form and they do contain protein, but it is very hard to GET to);
Also, many of the supermarket foods for dogs are far TOO HIGH in protein,
and for a domestic dog this can spell failure of kidneys, liver, and heart.
Our dogs are not, by and large, working dogs, but sedentary pets.  Premium
brands come with different levels of protein - suitable for your dog's life-
style.

Some of the more recent varieties of foods you can buy in the supermarket
are indeed very much like the premium varieties of pet foods....the new line
from Purina for dogs and cats comes to mind.  For an otherwise healthy animal,
these foods stack up nicely to the premium brands...however, if you are
concerned that you keep a CORRECT amount of protein, fat, calcium, magnesium,
ash, to name a few key ingredients, in your animal's diet WHILE ESCHEWING THE
CUTE COLORS AND SHAPES MADE TO PLEASE US, you still are safer buying the
correct premium food for your animal.

I buy premium food because:

	1) I can avoid dyes that have caused coat fall-out and other
	   signs of sensitivity in both cats and dogs I've lived with

	2) I can find easily digestable sources of protein, in the proper
	   percentages for the cat and dog I am feeding

	3) I can buy foods that are acid balanced, low-ash, and therefore
	   far less likely to trigger a session of FUS in my cats

	4) I see my pet's overall health while feeding these foods...and it
	   is simply better.  My cats don't upchuck their food, just their
	   hairballs.  Believe me, with Hannah, I noticed the difference
	   in THAT right away.

Now, I do agree that there is a tendency to overfeed these easily digestable
foods, but, if you look at the feeding instructions for most supermarket
brands, and if you could get your animal to actually eat that amount daily,
you dog would be defecating 6 times a day (I knew a doberman that used to
do exactly this), your cats would fill a cat box apiece on a daily basis....
and they'd all be REAL FAT.  Fat pets comes not from foods, but from our
foolish refusal to LEARN ABOUT THE ANIMALS WE CHOOSE TO LIVE WITH.  A little
study would show you the correct amount to feed your animal.  A good session
with a vet nutritionist would solve the fat problem before it arose.  WE,
as a nation, are just too d&mned lazy/miserly to get the information or pay
a vet to give it to us.  Feed the proper amount and exercise your pet on
a daily basis - premium foods need not make fat cats and dogs.

    Lynne, please send me a copy......NRO5/F2.  I'm interested because
    I feed Nippa Max Cat Lite.  It has less fat than regular foods.  I
    think she's lost weight, but I found her coat to be slightly dryer,
    and more prone to shedding.
    
    Nippa grew up on Amore, 9-lives, Friskies.......but over a period of
    time, she grew sensitive to these foods.  I can feed her Iams dry,
    Hills SD dry, Max cat lite dry with out any problems....barfing.  She
    has shone some sensitivity to the canned SD and Iams.....Must be
    something in the process.
    
    

    I saw the 20/20 show and found some interesting points.  Cats do
    not care what their food looks like,...they don't care what color it
    is...but they add all this dye to make the humans happy.
    
    Meat-by Products...(never knew what that was)...but it is actually
    animal organs...suck as kidneys, lungs, etc....which is suppose to
    be very high in vitimins...such as protein. I'm sure feathers and
    beaks are probably also in it!
    
    As Bonnie stated the show did present this in a very believable way...
    but yet I still believe certain cats cannot "deal" with the
    supermarket brands...and do need premium.   But I also know cats that
    are 15 and very healthy with beautiful looking coats...and they 
    alway ate the supermarket brands.
    
    Lynne...I would love a copy of the ariticle if it is available...
    
    Sandy Merritt
    SHR1-3/R2
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    I have also noticed a big difference in the condition of my cats
    since I've been feeding just the premium brands.  
    
    Also, Bob's FUS is under control and they don't throw up as much
    as they used to.  
    
    In short, I have also noticed all of the positive results of feeding
    premium foods and it'll take alot of convincing to get me to go
    back to feeding supermarket brands.
    

    Lynne -
      I'd like a copy too.  MR03-1/N17

    I have had my cats for 8-7 years.  I have always fed them a balance of
    dry and canned cat food - all supermarket bought (Friskies dry and
    Fancy Feast, Whiskas and human tuna fish).  They are not overweight,
    have beautiful coats, are very clean and hardly ever have diaherra
    (sp?).  They do get diaherra if I change their brand of cat food, no
    matter what brand.   
    
    I tried to change their hard food to Iams, but no luck.  They simply
    refused to eat it.  I even tried to mix it first with their Friskies,
    but no luck.  I suppose I could try to mix it in with their tuna that
    they get 3 times a week, but I figure they are healthy and happy, and
    they *love* their Friskies hard food, why force them to eat something
    they don't like?
    
    Just my 2cents.
    
    Anna/Zildjian/Spunks (who is spunky as ever with this beautiful
    weather)
    

    Lynn,
    
    Could I have a copy too?  I want to give it to my mom, who is trying to
    get Bandit on a diet!  He's such a whale!
    
    Nancy
    MRO1-2/Z24

    Re .0 regarding the ingredients......
    
    Just wanted to remind you what the article said.....
    The agency does NOT verify the ingredients, so if the bag
    says "we only use grade A chicken lips", what's to stop the
    Mfgr from using grade Z or something else entirely?
    
    And the cost.....by the time the consumer gets it, the markup
    is about 300%.....(which is typical, anyway, for a product)
    
    I feed both, BTW, but mainly grocerystore brands.  It's just 
    that I have been very sceptical about how much "better" it 
    actually is....and my crew are no judges, as they will eat
    pretty much anything put down - tho', some do have their 
    favorites...(-;
    
    Also, any vet selling the stuff will certainly advocate it...
    He's making $5-$10 a bag (25 lb) profit....and what is being
    sold is not bad stuff....
    
    Nancy, that canned stuff I get IS a grocerystore brand...
    
    
    	Lynne

Lynne,

Could you please send me a copy of the article, too?

Jill Meier
LMO2-1/N3

I was going through my cat folders this weekend, and came across a piece of
promotional literature by Max Cat (they're the striped bags, right?) that I got
at the Mansfield cat show.  It compared their (dry) products to other premium
and supermarket brands and showed that they didn't use various ingredients that
the others used that were supposedly "bad", like by-products, meals, and corn.
It really made me confused about all this stuff.  Has anyone else seen this, and
do they have any comments?

Jill

    Something I just wanted to throw in....
    
    Acceptable By-products - intestines, liver, heart, kidneys....
    
    Not acceptable - beaks, feathers, hide, hooves......
    
    Wild cat and dog species (wolves, tigers, etc.) eat not just the
    meat, but the majority of the animal.  They eat the by-products for
    a reason, I'm sure, besides hunger.  They have a high nutritional
    value, so why shouldn't they be in pet foods?  However, ground feathers
    may be 100% protein, but it is un-digestable protein.  
    What I'm getting at is, "Just what is the "By-products" they are
    listing?
    
    Lynne 
    

    re: .17 - acceptable by-products - I tend to agree with you there,
    Lynne.
    
    I think one of the major reasons I avoid the grocery brands is due to
    the dyes and other things that are added.  I've noticed that Mao and
    Isis are both prone to vomitting up the store stuff but not the
    premium.
    
    I DO feed them Fancy Feast as a treat sometimes.  I have also tried
    that new Purina Select which looks very much like Purina Proplan.
    :^)

    My cats like the new Purina select.  Tried it last night for the first
    time and everyone ate it.  It does look a lot like the pro plan.
    

    It smells good, too!  They also like the Proplan.....
    But, like I said, they like almost anything I put down,
    except some of the premium canned stuff...
    
    Lynne 

    Munch and Mutu (both turned 19 this summer) have always eaten
    supermarket brands.  Mutu does enjoy IAMS as a "treat".  When they were 
    younger, they would eat any brand, but especially loved Purina and
    9-Lives.  Now they eat Sheba, Whiskas, Fresh Catch, and Alpo meats -
    all in the 3 1/2 oz. size, which gets expensive - but at there age,
    they're entitled to anything they can get!  Neither have vomited any
    of the brands, unless they either overate (Mutu has eyes bigger than
    her tummy!), or ate too fast (Munchkin).
    
    Regards,
    

	I always feed our cats the 'good stuff' - Iams Less Active or
	Science Diet Light, but recently got some free samples of Alpo
	dry in with the bag of kitty litter.  I put it down in the dish
	and was nearly crushed in the stampede!  They seem to love it -
	especially C.C., my most finicky eater.  It got even funnier
	when I topped up the dish with Iams, leaving the Alpo near the
	bottom.  A lot of the Iams was dug through so that they could
	reach the Alpo.

	I guess it's like someone else said - just like kids, cats
	sometimes like junk food :^}

	Sandy + 5 furry piglets

    Hi,
    
    It may be what your felines are used to also. Here's my experience. I 
    tried Iams twice, and the both times it did not work out, too rich, 
    even if fed in small amounts. I've read in here that other people had 
    problems with it too.
    
    I feed a quality dry food (measured, not free feeding) and 1/4 can of
    9-lives or 1/2 can fancy feast twice a day. No chicken, which does not
    agree with them, or any seafood, for FUS reasons. Everybody has shiny
    coats and bright eyes, and good performance in the litter box.
    
    My vet supports this program too..
    
    Susan, Rocky and Corky-lynne

    Hills has never worked out with any of my three - two don't like it and
    the other simply does not do well on it-gained too much weight and her
    coat got greasy.
    
    They will eat Iams dry, Max Lite, Natures Recp. so we stick to those
    but give them Alpo dry, etc. for treats and sometimes we will give
    them a bowl of Friskies, etc. because they "like it so much".  I split
    a large can of Wiskas three ways in the a.m. and then a can of Fancy F.
    three ways in the p.m. along with free feeding dry.  They do get table
    scraps of chicken and fish, which we eat a lot of, as well as veggies.
    
    My cats hardly ever vomit from food intake - it's usually an occasional
    hairball or a bit of spit up after having eaten grass and their coats
    are very healthy.  This diet seems to have worked very well and my vet
    is very happy with their health and appearance.  They just came through
    their yearly checkup with flying colors.
    
    Giudi +3

My family had cats all the time while I was growing up, we fed them the
usual store brand kitty foods and I always noticed
that as kittens they seemed to go through a "scrawny" stage around 3-5 months or
so.  I also noticed this recently with a friend's kitty who is fed mostly
store-bought foods.

However, with 2 of my own, I started feeding them Science Diet Feline Growth,
on the advice of my vet.  I said ok I'll try it and see if they like it and
if I see any difference. I can't get over how healthy they look at 3.5 months
and 5 months.  I agree with the previous replies that they are
healthier-looking, not boney looking, and they have beautiful coats. 

Many people have commented on how they look including
my Mom who used to make fun of me for spoiling them and paying more for the
premium foods.  The results speak for themselves as far as I am concerned and
I will pay more $$ for good food for me, so why not for my kids too!

Dawn

    re: Alpo dry - My gang recently gave me the "You expect me to eat
    this!" look when I gave them some Alpo dry after I ran out of Max Cat.
    

    Max Cat is the ALL TIME FAVORITE in my house!
    
    G

Max Cat is so much the favorite in my house that, if I feel the need for
one of mine to eat canned food, I have to mix it with Max Cat kibble to get
the kit to eat it....Dilly will not eat canned food by itself...she needs it
mixed with kibble.

    Max Cat is the favorite, with Science Diet a close second.  They dig
    through the Science Diet to get the Max Cat.  When you have a cat who
    insists on scooping her portions out of the bowl, this can get messy
    ;-)  They also get a can of Old Mother Hubbard every evening, unprocessed 
    bran every other day, and brewer's yeast and garlic every day.  I feed
    them the expensive stuff because I see a difference in:
    
    1.) the consistency and amount of stool in the box (less and
        firmer with premium;
    
    2.) less vomitting with premium (especially with Dream my oriental,
        who is very susecptible to dyes and chemicals in her food);
    
    3.) shinier coats and higher energy levels.
    
    4.) amount of preservatives in premium versus store brands.
    
    Dream really drives most of the food choices.  The tabbies have
    those sturdy digestive systems which handle most anything.  Dream
    on the other hand will throw up if I don't pay enough attention
    to her, so I like to narrow the margins by at least feeding her
    food that stays down.... :-)  I tried Triumph dry for a while,
    it was cheaper -  Dream came up to my bedroom at 3:00 AM every
    morning and threw up until the Max Cat returned.  I no longer
    buck the system.... ;-)
    
    Mary-Michael, Misha, Mips, Belle and Dream
    

    Because I really don't know where this note should go...I'll
    put it here!
    
    At the R.I. show last weekend I was talking with the sales
    representative for Science Diet.  I explained to him how my
    cats love the food...but I have noticed a big weight gain in
    a few of them.  He suggested Science Diet Light...and I laughed
    and said "my crew won't touch it".
    
    Well he gave me a helpful hint to get them use to it:
    
    Use Science Diet light...but zap it in your microwave for less
    then 1 minute, cool it, and then feed it to your cats.  It seems 
    the micorwave brings out all the oils/fats and smells much 
    better to your kitties.  Well I went home with two small sample
    bags and was very skeptical...but it did work.  All cats chowed
    down!!!!    He suggested using the microwave just for awhile...until
    the cats get use to the new taste!!
    
    Sandy

    How long do you let it cool?  I've tried the microwave to warm up
    food kept in the frig, but the cats act like its revolting.
    

    Karen...I just let it cool down for about another minute.  It
    was a little warm...but not hot at all!!   Of course....it
    stunk to me...but the cats loved it!!!
    
    Sandy

    BTW...my cats will not eat food from the frig either!  They
    look at me and say "ya right MOM!!"
    
    Sandy

chilled food has much less smell...and cats choose their food/moisture by
smell.  It makes sense that a "lighter" food would have less fat and that
would make the smell of the food less appealing.  Warming the food starts
those molecules whipping around - which forces molecules into the air and
you get "smell".  Good Idea!

    Another thought the Science Diet Sales rep shared with me (which
    I'm not so sure I believe this one) is that sometimes cats have
    a hard time switching brands...like from SD to Iams because of the 
    different shapes of the morsels!!!
    
    My guys eat any shape...as long as it has that "smell".   Any
    thoughts!!
                                      
    Sandy

cats don't like change...period.  They would be very happy if you never did
anything new to their home, never offered different food, never changed your
hair style or whether your SO wears/shaves/etc. different.  It is just
as probable that the shape of kibble would throw them off as that hanging a
new painting in the living room would throw them off (and I've seen this 
happen)....I'll buy it.

    I also agree that shape can have a lot to do with it.  When Nutrix was
    first coming onto the market, a friend who works for them asked me to
    try it with my guys.  They liked it, but I noticed that the pieces
    (which were a copy of Science Diet pellets, but smaller) tended to fall
    out of their mouths when they chewed.  Some of the cats would get all
    excited by the smell, and then try to eat, but get discouraged when
    they kept dropping the pieces.  A few of the cats gave up and walked
    away.  
    
    When we were at the Purina/CFA invitational the first year, I attended
    a presentation given by Purina on their line of foods.  They have a
    whole department of people that research shapes for pet foods, and
    which shapes dogs and cats prefer.  Must be something the shape thing 
    for a pet food manufacturer to put so much money into it.
    
    Jo

more on shapes of kibble:

in fact, I wish Maxcat came in different shapes.  Missy Hannah picks up a
kibble, bites it in half, and eats half, allowing the other half to fall back
into the bowl.  Needless to say, after a few meals, the bowl is full of
microscopic sized crumbs that the other cats won't touch...so into the
trash it goes.  I think slightly smaller kibble might have been preferrable.
But, they love Maxcat, so they get Maxcat.

    Mine do prefer dry food according to shape, though they
    will eat any of the premium brands....
    They like Iams and Science first....But, I noticed that
    one of my guys doesn't chew the Iams, and is swallowing
    it whole.  I know, because he was sitting in my lap last
    night, and vomited up Iams whole. (No, not in my lap, he
    dashed off, and basically barfed in mid-air!)
    
    Lynne

    
    Callie had a tough time switching from Iams to Feline Growth and by
    watching her I could tell she was having some trouble  because of
    the formation of the kibble.  I used the microwave heating trick and it 
    and voila she started eating it.  Unfortunately Expand-O cat Bailey
    really ejoyed too and now I will try the same thing with his W/D to see
    if heating that will make it more tantilizing.
                               
                              

    "Expand-O cat"  I love it!!!  Marlene, that's as good as "cling-on"!
    
    I guess Taj could qualify as an Expand-O cat, as when he sits down now
    there are bulges on either side of his ribcage...