Conference misery::feline_v1

    It's extremely important that Patrick have this condition monitored by
    the vet.  It can cause complete blockage of the urinary tract, and if
    that happens, death can occur in a male cat within 24 hours.  You were
    actually lucky that nothing catastrophic happened between Friday night
    and Saturday's vet visit.
    
    It's necessary for him to stay on the SD for awhile just like people
    often have to stay on medicine for awhile after the symptoms of
    whatever illness they have have disappeared.  The cans are expensive,
    but they're large size, so it's not quite as bad as it looks.
    
    He may not yet have passed the stone -- the pain level may be reduced
    because the steroid has reduced inflammation etc.  If you tough it out
    with the food (I assume the vet warned you not to let him have any
    other kind simultaneously), he'll eat it eventually.
    

    It does take time for some cats who have never been fed S/D to accept
    it.  Would the vet allow you to mix it with just a bit of his regular
    food to make it more palatable?  Or maybe replace it with another low
    ash/magnesium premium quality food?  Three that come to mind are Old
    Mother Hubbard, Triumph (these foods usually go over well with finicky
    cats) and the new Whiskas Expert line sold in some supermarkets.  The
    maintenance diet is similar to S/D and it went over big with my cats.
    
    If the vet doesn't perform another xray there will be no real way of
    determining whether or not Pat has passed the stone.  For your own
    peace of mine, it is best to have it done.  The steroids are probably
    helping him to feel better by reducing inflammation and lessening the
    pain.
    

    Just to clear up a point, the SD is specifically designed to help
    dissolve stones and crystals.  It is a more potent food in that regard
    than any of the things like CD, etc.  It cannot be used for long term
    feeding because it's apparently impossible to accomplish what it's
    designed for and also provide the nutrients a cat needs to maintain
    basic health.  So, it's usually a one-month or so item.  So, I suspect
    that other commercially available foods can't be substituited for SD.
    

    Karen, are we talking about Hills Science Diet Feline Maintenance?  I'm
    confused as to the actual S/D we are talking about.
    
    The Science Diet can be purchased in feed stores as well as vet's
    offices; the C/D can only be purchased through a vet.
    
    Confused!!
    

    SD stands for "Stone Diet", a different thing from Hills Science Diet
    Feline Maintenance.   SD is also from Hills and available only thru vets.
    It's one of the Hills family of specialty products for feline
    medical problems.               
    

    SD, like CD is a prescription diet.
    

    
    I just want to report that Patrick is much better and is finally
    eating the S/D Hills food.  I'm sure he must have passed the
    stone as he is back to his old sweet self and has absolutely no
    pain or discomfort.  I don't understand why he has to stay on S/D
    if he has passed the stone. Guess I'll ask my vet that question.
    
    Thank you for your input.  I didn't realize how serious kideny stones
    are.
    
    Mary C. - Patrick's Mom
    
    
    

The stone(s) *may not* be gone.  That's why the second x-ray.  Also, something 
in his diet may have been *causing* the stone.  I'm sure you don't want the 
possibility of it recurring.  Think of the vet expense then (provided you catch
it in time), or the heartbreak if you don't.  Follow the vet's advice.  They 
are more experienced in these matters than any of *us*.

    Believe me, its worth the small amount of extra expense to feed
    a good quality food as compared to the vet's expense if the cat
    needs surgery for another kidney stone, or the emotional expense
    if you are forced to put him to sleep.
    
    This is what people often fail to consider when they complain about
    the cost of the "premium" or prescription foods.  You ultimately
    make out much better when you consider the reduced vet bills, the
    additional quality and quantity of life for your pet.
      Nancy DC
    

    Please, please, please follow your vet's instructions to the letter. 
    My little Hoover had a bout with FUS and I never want him to go through
    that again.  The S/D dissolves the crystals that are in the cat's
    urine.  Even if your kitty passed the stone, his urine could still
    contain crystals.  Once the crystals are dissolved and passed out of
    the body, the C/D will help ensure that they do not form again.
    
    You may also find that your cat gains weight with the CD as it is very
    high in calories and ultimately he/she won't eat the same volume of food
    as before.  Less than 1/2 cup per day maintains Hoover's
    weight.  Believe me, the S/D and C/D are worth every penny.
    
    Hoover's Mom
    

    Also, when a cat has urinary problems s/he often fails to use the
    litterbox.  If the problem continues long enough this failure to
    use the box becomes a habit and you have a behavioral problem on
    your hands.
    
    I can not stress enough that your vet is far more competant to make
    decisions about the best course for your pet than you or anyone in
    this file is.  Granted there are "bad" vets out there, but obviously
    you trust this one or you wouldn't be going to him/her.  
    
    Please do what s/he says.
      Nancy DC

    I had to rush Patrick to the vet early this morning.  His
    condition seemed to be much better earlier in the week
    and he was eating his food and using his box.  But when
    I got home yesterday from work he just was not himself,
    not very peppy and just wanted to lay around.  He has been
    staying in the closet now most of the time that thats not like
    him at all. He did nibble on some food.  I checked him several
    times during the night and this morning he was still laying
    in the same position and would not get up.  I was quite alarmed
    and immediately called the vet and they told me to bring in
    him right in.
    
    So they are running tests this morning and may put him on a
    i.v. etc.  I'm afraid he may be having kidney failure because
    he was so limp.  The vet said the steriods probably made him
    feel better but the stones could still be there.
    
    Patrick is a 7 year old neutered male.  His ususal diet was
    Tender Vittels and 9 Lives - Tune & cheese bits.  I don't 
    understand why suddenly he should develop stones.  He is the
    sweetest natured cat and such a good friend. I am keeping my
    fingers crosses and waiting for the vet to call. He has always
    been so healthy.  I don't understand why the manufactures of
    cat foods that you buy in supermarket can sell food if it is
    not good for the animal.  I would think there would be some
    type of regulation as to the ash content etc. on all animal
    foods. 
    
    I'll will keep you all posted.
    
    Thank you for your support.
    
    Mary Coleman - Patrick's Mom
      

    I'm sorry to hear about Patrick.
    
    There is a lot of people food in supermarkets that isn't good for us
    either.  There will always be good and not so good quality foods lining
    the shelves for any living species.  Because our pets do not have
    choices, it is up to us to make sensible and wise decisions regarding
    the foods we feed them.
    
    It is possible that the long-term diet of Tender Vittles and 9-Lives
    contributed to Patrick's problem.   Here's hoping that he pulls through
    okay.  I'll say a prayer for him.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    Re .0

    > I don't understand why the manufactures of
    > cat foods that you buy in supermarket can sell food if it is
    > not good for the animal.  I would think there would be some
    > type of regulation as to the ash content etc. on all animal
    > foods. 
    
    I've been thinking the same thing myself - I recently found out
    that one of my cats has kidney trouble. I told the vet that I
    fed them tinned meat and cat biscuits and he told me to cut the 
    biscuits out right away, that they are not good at all. I've been 
    giving them to my cats for years (they love them!). Even the
    supposedly quality tinned food I've always given them is not
    much good, according to the vet.

    Yet, there is nothing in the list of ingredients to cause alarm.
    I don't think I should need to be an expert in nutrition to avoid
    feeding my cats something harmful, not if I'm feeding them food
    specifically made for cats! From the way these products are 
    described by the manufacturers, I thought I was making a 'sensible 
    and wise' decision in my choice of cat food. I hate to think that 
    I may have unwittingly contributed to health problems for my furry 
    friends   :-(

    We'll keep our fingers and paws crossed for Patrick,

    June, Lucky and Sam (who, amazingly, seem to find brown rice a
                         perfectly acceptable alternative to biscuits!)

    Please let us know how Patrick does.  Unfortunately, it's necessary to
    be an informed purchaser of pet food, just as it is of people food.
    

    I entered a long reply about cat foods which disappeared.  It
    reappeared once when I did a "nex un" and then disappeared again.
    
    If anyone comes across a reply from me entitled "My thoughts on
    cat food" please forward it to me.  Not that is was any priceless
    info but I hate losing notes.
    

    THANKS SO LINDA GOGOLIN FOR RECOVERING THIS FOR ME!!!!
    
    -------------------******************-----------------------
    
    You don't need to be an expert in nutrition, but you DO need to be
    informed.  Just as you need to be informed to provide yourself with
    a good diet.  Think about all the talk about "the basic four" etc
    that you've heard and what you've heard and read about cholesterol
    and diet and its relationship to heart disease.

    This file is a good place to get information.

    I think we all know that the Federal Govt sets *minimum* guidelines
    for such things as food.  Its up to us whether we are satisfied with
    the minimum guidelines or if we want better quality.  For example,
    your car will run on 87 octane gas, but 93 octane may be better for
    it - It is for my car.  How do I know this?  I talked to my mechanic
    about it.

    You can also read the ingredients and contents of the food.  I am very
    conscious of the ash and magnesium level in foods because of Bob's
    problems.  If I can't find an ash & magnesium level listed, I just
    don't buy the food.  Also, I look to see that the first ingredient
    listed for a food is poultry or beef and not grain.  For those who
    do not know, ingredients must be listed IN ORDER OF AMOUNT.  That
    goes for human foods too.  So if poultry is listed as the first
    ingredient then poultry (of some sort) constitutes the greatest
    percentage of ingredients.

    Other things I've picked up - things like  beaks and feathers are
    classified as protein but are not very digestible.  Here's that
    great *minimum* standard again.  You find such ingredients in the
    cheaper cat foods.  In this case they're cheaper because of cheaper
    ingredients.  Also in this case cheaper translates into poor
    quality rather than inexpensive.

    Also, the generic cat foods and the store brands can be inconsistent
    in quality.  you may have noticed this, whereas, name brands like
    9-lives, or Iams etc are far more consistent in their quality and
    ingredients.

    Finally, there has been alot of progress over recent years in our
    understanding of nutrition and health - for all animals - and that's
    being reflected in the grocery and pet stores.   It wasn't all that
    long ago that the corrolation between one type of cardiomyopathy and
    taurine deficiency was discovered.  All the pet food manufacturers
    immediately began adding taurine to their cat foods.

    I have seen numerous articles in cat magazines and other places that
    discuss the relative quality of different foods.  That's where I've
    picked up some of my info.  Also, I talk to my vet and to the
    pet food reps at the cat shows.  Now any time I'm dealing with
    literature produced by a specific pet food company I take what they
    say with a large grain of salt and store the info for future
    verification.  Lets face it, they're trying to sell their food.

    Hope this helped a bit.  In general, I stick to the premium cat foods
    and stay away from any generic foods.  I do feed things like fancy
    feast as a treat on occasion.  I don't think that will hurt my cats.

    Oh - one last point.  The 'majority' of cats can probably eat regular
    cat food without any big health problems.  However, there are always
    those who have a tendency towards trouble.  For those cats, the lower
    quality foods pose a health risk.
      Nancy DC
  
    

    =.17
    
    Yes Nancy, it's amazing what can constitute protein - my husband was in
    the food business for many years and I was taken to a meat plant - one
    that was supplying schools with hamburger meat - on the conveyor belt
    I saw this parade of blue lips passing by followed by noses - they are
    considered protein and were ground up and became part of the hamburger
    - if that's happening with people food then you can imagine what some
    pet foods might consist of.  It was a real eye opener for me - I seldom
    eat red meat but it was a very very long time before I even considered
    having a hamburger.
    
    Giudi

    Days like this I'm particularly glad I'm a vegetarian.  Anyone who's
    read the Consumer's Union reports on government standards for food,
    such as the allowable percentage of roach parts in ground meat, 
    will have a wary eye on all food.  But, how is Patrick doing?
    

    I gave up red meat about 12 years ago and I'm glad I did!!
    
    I would comment, however, that I believe if you are going to
    kill an animal for food, then you should use as close to 100%
    of that animal as possible.
     
    Now, we should get back to the original topic.
    
    How's the kidney stone??
      Nancy
    

    
    I am happy to note that Patrick is much better and I expect to
    be able to pick him up today afterwork depending on the latest
    lab reports.  Apparently kidney stones in cats are more difficult
    to treat and take a much longer time to pass or disolve.  Apparenly
    Patrick's kidney was not filtering properly which caused bacteria
    infection - I though he was having kidney failure.  Anyway after
    treatment with I.V.s, antibotics and the HILLS diet he is coming
    along fine.  It can take up to 2 months for kidney stones to dissolve.
    During this time I have to take him back for X-rays.  I may even
    have to learn how to give him I.V.s at home depending on the
    lab report.  One of the enzymes is still high and needs to come down.
    
    But he is doing great and I can't wait to see him tonight.
    
    THanks for all your input.
    
    Mary c.