Conference misery::feline_v1

    re: base note,
    
    Hi,
    
    Please be prepared for a wide range of responses.  This issue
    (of declawing) has come up before.  Some people have VERY
    strong opinions, and, if they are all written and read with
    understanding, then we will all be better off.
    
    First of all, have you tried trimming Blackie's claws?  Either
    your vet or one of us FELINERs could show you how, and the clipper
    costs between $5-15 depending upon model and where you get it.
    You might give that a try.
    
    Also, try finding a burlappy type scratching post, and rub it
    with catnip, and "teach" Blackie how to scratch on it.  Hopefully,
    he will decide it fits the bill (or claw, as the case may be!).
    
    As for his age, check with the vet.  A healthy 5 or 6 year old
    cat is not a high surgery risk, although do keep in mind that
    the anesthesia *is* the biggest risk in most surgeries.
    
    I declawed my first two cats 13 years ago.  I would not do it again.
    But they are now happy, well adjusted 13 year-old-cats.  I don't
    have much trouble with the cats clawing on things other than their
    posts (and the best I have ever found are manufactured by FELIX,
    in the Seattle, WA area, and they are difficult to find here in
    NE), except a bit for the caning on the back of some chairs.  So...
    the caning looks like some cats attacked it!  Imagine!
    
    CLIP those claws quickly, for starters.  Blackie won't be able
    to do so much damage, and maybe he will even decide that it isn't
    quite so satisfying without needle-sharp claws.  (clip every week
    or so.)
    
    	Good luck!
    			Pennie

    I'm wondering what is different from Blackie's point of
    view since the move?  Did he have a different type of scratching
    post at the old house?  One that had a more appealing type of
    surface, or that was taller so he could stretch out,
    or heavier so it was less likely to scare him by tipping?
    Or is the new house bigger, so you might need more scratching posts
    now?
    
    He might also be upset by the move and this is a symptom that
    will go away after awhile.  Perhaps with the move you folks
    have been very busy, and its his way of getting attention.
    
    A trick to encourage use of a scratching post is to rub catnip over the
    top, so the cat puts his paws on the surface when he reaches up to
    smell it, and so gets the idea of scratching.
    

    This is one of the "touchy" subjects in this notesfile.
    Many "noters" disagree with and consider declawing cruel
    and un-necessary.
    The following notes are listed under the keyword: DECLAWING
    
    38.0,74.0,223.0,778.0,821.0,1909.0,2263.0,2507.6,2992.0,3366.0
    
    Read through a few.......I personally feel it leaves a cat
    defenseless, (so it may learn to bite) especially if it accidently
    gets outside, it is an *intensely* painful operation (like someone
    had ripped out your fingernails from the base forward, and then
    asked you to type a 100 page document (or walk on them, or scratch
    in the litterbox) and has been known to cause psychological/behavior
    problems such as refusal to use litterbox, aggression, etc.
    
    Have you tried the "Spray bottle trick"?  Fill up one of those
    spray bottles with water and everytime your cat goes near the
    curtains, wicker, furniture, etc.  Let him have it with a well
    aimed squirt.  Keep this up, and you should be able to get the
    point across that that stuff is off limits.  You probably have
    one of those small, two ft tall posts with a base?  Mine wouldn't
    use it, either.  But, because it wasn't secure when they used it.
    It moved, and would tip over, too.  We have a 4 ft climbing style
    with a platform, that they love.  They also like to use a piece
    of tree (bark still on) that we keep in the basement.
    
    Lynne
    

    OK...Here I go, this IS indeed a touchy subject & I hate to respond to 
    touchies, but I will.....
    
    I've been reading thru about some of the distraction methods of getting
    them to stop clawing the furn. My kitty does the 3:00 AM routine &
    really honks me off! My boyfriend has half seriously threatened to have 
    her de-clawed. I have told him in many ways that he will do no such
    thing! I'm just really against it. Some kittys have no problem with it,
    but I don't care, my baby won't EVER go thru that.
    
    The problem still remains, she is destroying our $300 lazy-boy! We must
    do something about it and soon!!
    
    For a while, simply draping the chair w/ a bed sheet worked, now she
    knows that's not much of a barier. I may be a wimp that spoils her
    baby, but here's how I feel about the spray method....They're AFRAID
    of water, & I think spraying them is like locking a kid in a closet to 
    see if they're still afraid of the dark. Yup, it's settled, OK? I'm
    a WIMP!!! Plus, I have enough trouble w/ the flea spray I need to use
    on her as a routine prentative measure, using a water bottle would only
    make the flea spraying more difficult.
    
    Be right back
    

    Hi, I had to get into another system! I'm back!!
    
    I wanted to say that MY ktty goes after the wicker stuff in my house
    too! I think after reading thru some of the notes, I'll try a
    scratching thing-a-majiggy made of wicker....it's worth a shot!!
    
    Also, one more thing....a woman working here told me to try the 
    peel of an orange, cuz her cats HATE it. Well, sure enough, I bent
    the peel so that the citrus juice squirted out & let her smell it &
    whoa!!! She jumped back a foot & looked at the peel like, "eeew! get
    that stinky thing outta here!" I mushed a bunch of peels into the chair
    she loves so much & IT WORKED.....for a day, until the smell dried up &
    went away, I don't eat enough oranges to do this daily, but oh well.
    
    For those of you trying to keep a critter away from a plant, I'd
    suggest you try putting in some orange peels!!
    
    See ya'll!!
    
    Bonnie

    The magic word here is sisal rope.  My husband made a cat tree for the
    downstairs (living room area) that looks like a long "saw horse" --
    four very long posts with a carpeted bottom and top platform.  There
    are two posts on each end that form a triangular shape.... and they are
    all covered top to bottom with sisal.  The cats go nuts.  The funiture
    is still like new while the sisal needs to be replaced after 2 years
    use.  I keep their claws trimmed about every two weeks.  We have a six
    foot bark tree in the bedroom covered with nubby carpet and they prefer
    that to the bark.  I don't think that small scratching posts "cut it." 
    You need large trees to play on with sisal and perches and stuff.  My
    four guys can't get enough of their trees.  The one my husband made
    cost little to nothing since he did it with hodgepodge scraps.  The
    tree in the bedroom was expensive ($371) but that is petty cash
    considering the usage they get from it and how long it will last.
    
    --Roberta
    

    Can you tell me where I can buy some sisal rope and how your husband
    attached it?
    
    My brother and I made a nice cat tree about two months ago.  My cats
    love it, but don't use it for scratching (bark).  They constantly
    attack the sisal rope cat stand I bought, which is very small.  I
    would like to wrap one or two of the bark legs with sisal.
    
    Thanks, Pam

      My one comment is .......OUCH!!!  My opinion is that a
    cat does not deserve this...he was born with claws and 
    we need find other ways to deal with the problems.
    
    Of course...mine don't touch the sofa...but you should see
    some of my wooden doors.  Yikees....what a mess.   Try the
    squirt bottle....most cats hate water.
    
    Sandy

    Can someone point me to where I could possibly buy
    one of those Cat Trees everyone is talking about.
    (in New England area please...)
    
    We are getting a pretty good refund from our taxes...
    and I think that cats deserve a nice big present.
    
      Sandy   (will the tree hold 7 cats????)
    

    Sandy, Come on down to the Boxboro show.  There will probably be a few
    cat tree vendors there.  Artie Mitchell of Arubacats in NH has some
    very nice trees and offers all DEC employees a 10% discount.  Bring
    your badge.  His trees always have sisal on them.  The place where I
    got the bark tree is based in Maryland and is called Cat House
    Originals.
    
    RE: will it hold 7 cats:  The bark tree we have is a little over six
    feet tall.  It is not very wide and all of the components are located
    directly on top of one another.  The bottom is a square base with an
    attached tunnel, closed on one end.  Above that are three long perches
    going in different directions, then another platform on top with a
    pagoda house that has two holes in it for the cats to jump in and out
    of and two more perches on either side.  (Picture the roof of the house
    (each side) as a U shaped perch).  On the very top of the roof rests
    another perch.  All the cats fight over that perch.  So, yes, it would
    hold 7 cats and you can have him custom make one to your specifications
    for an extra fee.  Well worth it when you see your cats playing on it. 
    Murdock was on the top perch the minute the tree was brought in the
    door!  He rode it right up the stairs and into the bedroom.
    
    RE Pam:
    ------
    
    I'm not sure what my husband used to adhere the sisal rope.  I think he
    used a sort of strong tape to start, then wrapped the sisal real tight
    around the post and taped it up again at the end.  The key is to wrap
    it tightly!  It was a very time-consuming process.
    

    RE:9
    
    We got ours at a cat show - we're on the west coast but the people who
    make the trees are from the East Coast.  I've seen these at most of the
    shows I've gone to.
    
    Giudi +3 and one un-used cat tree

    BTW, Cat House Originals vendor was at a show so there were no shipping
    costs.  Also, the trees at the shows are their show specials.  It is a
    lot cheaper to get to a show early and pick out a show special tree. 
    They go FAST (both C.H.O's and Arubacats) so you really have to get
    there early with us exhibitors in order to benefit from the selection!!
    
    I think that C.H.O.'s will be in Boxboro next month as well as
    Arubacats.
    

I covered Kalliste's home made cat tree in sisal rope.  I bought the sisal at
Home Depot and also picked up a hot glue gun for about $10.  I glued the sisal
to the cat tree at the bottom and then about every six turns around the post, 
just to secure it.  Worked great.  The sisal has never slipped off the tree or
come undone.

This weekend is the San Francisco Revelers cat show at the Cow Palace for you 
West Coast noters.  Last year, Cat House Originals came out for this show.  
You might want to check it out.

Jo

    That's the name I was looking for!  Sisal rope!  The 
    next homemade tree will be a 7 footer with sisal!!
    
    Lynne
    

I found real sisal rope on sale at a Ship's Chandlers shop... these sell
everything to do with sailing/boating etc. You can get real sisal rope
in various thicknesses. The larger diameter stuff is more expensive,
but, if you're wrapping it around a post spiral-fashion, you need less
of it than the thin stuff to cover the post.
Ship's Chandlers here in the UK are all over the place, not just on the coast
or near lakes etc.
I found that Hardware and DIY shops are now only tending to sell plastic rope,
which would probably not be a good substitute for natural sisal.
*DC

    BTW - Artie Mitchell also sells rolls of sisal rope. If you buy the
    rope in a harware or craft store, becareful because the quailty of the
    rope might not be the best for a cat-claw application, and pieces of
    the rope can come out and act like little splinters pierceing a cat's
    paw pad.
    
    Deb

    Well back to answering the original noters question....
    
    We have three cats. TWO have been declawed and I wouldn't have it
    any other way.!!!!!!!!!!!!! They did NOT suffer, the operation
    was done in the morning one day and we picked the cat up the 
    following morning.  Neither cat limped, or walked like they
    were in pain and we were able to touch their feet also. We had
    tried everything to get them to stop scratching the furniture
    but nothing worked.  However, our newest edition from day one
    used only the condor to scratch on and has never used the furniture.
    Needless to say there is no need to have him declawed.
    
    Having had the two cats declawed has made our enjoyment of them
    so much better and we aren't squirting them or hollering at them
    everytime you turn around.
    
    You don't mention where you live but if you would like I would
    be glad to give you the name of our vet. (Oh yes, I forgot to
    mention there was no bleeding after we bought them home.
    
    Barbara & her 3M's

    I have never found it necessary to have any of my cats declawed.
    I should also mention that we have FOUR Arubacat cat trees plus
    a couple of other things for them to use.  It seemed that once
    we got the resident cats trained the others coming in followed
    their example. (With a little disuading from using the furniture).
    
    If this scratching the furniture is new I would also wonder what
    has changed in the new house.  In the meantime, confine your cat
    to one room when you aren't there to supervise.  When you are there
    use the methods described to dissuade him from using your good
    furniture and get him a good solid scratching post or posts.
    Artie Mitchell made a very nice two tier post with sisel rope for
    some friends of mine for about $65.  What's that when you consider
    the cost of the furniture.
    
    Finally, if none of that works and you feel you must declaw him I
    HIGHLY recommend that you get references from folks who have had
    their cats declawed.  My feeling is that there are some vets who
    know what they're doing and can declaw the cat with a minimum of
    pain and trauma to the cat.  Others don't seem to know what they're
    doing and the resulting pain can leave you with a cat that won't
    use its litterbox because of the intense pain when it tried to
    scratch in the box.  Or other similar problems.
    
    When I sell a kitten I state on the contract that the kitten is
    NOT to be declawed without my permission.  And I'll only give
    it as a last resort.
    
    So, Good luck with your cat and I hope this helped.
      Nancy DC

    I should also mention that declawed cats still "scratch", they just
    don't do any damage.  

well, I have declawed and fully clawed cats - the only cat of the bunch that
I had declawed was not due to furniture damage, but danger to our old female
cat - with whom Hannah was fighting for dominance.  Tabby had no claws and
Hannah had an unfair advantage.  However, I have a fully clawed cat that
works the cat scratch tree only and I have some training ideas.
If your cat focuses on one or two places, then a possible solution is:

	1) cover the areas being clawed with something that the cat finds
	unattractive to use - something smooth will ususally work.  I
	suggest hanging some heavy-duty plastic around the area such
	that the cat cannot get under it....plastic like that used in
	painters' tarps is adequate.  I line the catbox areas with it and
	it is thick enough to discourage scratching.

	2) offer a nice roughly textured, very solidly based cat scratching
	post.  you can try rubbing it with catnip, however, some cats do
	not react to catnip.  It is a genetic characteristic that seems to
	be optional, some cats do like it, some don't care.  Place the
	post in front of the area that the cat was scratching.  This is
	important.  cats are creatures of habit - just like fussy old ladies.
	if two or more spots are involved, then get two or more cat scratch
	posts.  Once you have clear evidence the cat is using the post begin
	to move the post to the desired location, a few feet at a time,
	a little more each day.  If you are lucky, the cat will move the
	habit with the post.  Keep a squirt gun handy and squirt the cat
	if it even looks like it would try furniture.  Keep nails trimmed
	weekly.  eventually, you should be able to remove the plastic
	sheeting without having the furniture attacked.

If the cat refuses to move the habit or if the cat scratches everywhere, 
then consider declawing the front feet.  I know that is a controversial 
suggestion, however, the simple fact is that you can ONLY implement behavior
modification if you ALWAYS CATCH THE NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR WHEN IT OCCURS AND 
IMMEDIATELY INTERVENE.  ALWAYS is the important word here - sometimes or
most of the time won't do it.  When the choice was getting the cat
declawed or losing a beloved pet, I chose to keep Hannah and have her 
declawed.  I found a reputable vet, I paid a high price, and Hannah was 
PROPERLY declawed - removal of the claw only, NOT removal of the last joint 
of the toe.

Be an aggressive shopper for the correct procedure.  If a vet will not
describe exactly how the procedure will be done, find another vet.  If you
get the procedure done correctly, there is mild discomfort (I know - I've
had one toe "declawed" due to damage to a nail bed - I've been there).  If
not done correctly, you have the possibility of arthritis later in life.

And, yes, do try other options first.  In most cases that I've seen, the
re-training is possible because the cats are very specific in where
they choose to claw and what surface they prefer. 

	Good Luck.

    One of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make was to get my cat
    declawed.  It took we over a month of angonizing to decide.  It was
    only after I tried everything, (spray bottles, newspaper, scratch
    posts, clipping, NO, etc.).  Spats was very definant, he would do it as 
    soon as he was told not to.  Almost as if to say I don't care what you say 
    I'm going to do it anyway.  Finally, I had a long talk with him - 
    internally, mentally, I explained why he couldn't claw on the furniture
    and that if we were going to live together he would have to claw
    on the scrtch post - he had 3 different one's to choose from, I also
    explained that if he continued to claw the furniture he would leave me
    with no other alternative but to have his claws removed.  Some of you
    I'm sure think I'm nuts but I do believe we can communicate with our
    pets.  Well, he continued to be defiant - you could just sense it in
    the way it continued to do it.  Finally, I gave him a choice -
    stop by such and such a date or be declawed.  He continued.  So heart
    broken I took him in to be declawed, knowing it was my last resort. 
    
    Both of his paws got infected - I had to take him back to the vets twice
    - he had a high fever - had to give him antibiotics and soak his feet.  
    (If you are going to get your cat declawed get a good vet and get the
    cat done as young as possible - the vet let him go home too early his
    paws started to bleed as soon as he got home, got dirt in them and got
    infected)
    
    I really wish we could have worked it out some other way.
    
    Today he is healthy and happy - he's not getting squirted or being
    yelled at for doing something that comes naturally...scratching.  
    He still scratchs, he just doesn't do any damage.  We have a very close 
    affectionate relationship.  
    
    The vet told me the decision to declaw is much harder on the owner then
    the cat.  If a cat or any other animal looses a leg they adapt very
    quickly, they aren't emotional over the lost like we would be. 
    
    I would suggest trying everything you can before declawing.  If
    however as a last resource you must declaw - the kitty will get
    over it.  Spats has a loving nuturing home. When you think of what life
    for him could be like, maybe declawing isn't too high of a price to pay 
    for owning a human.     
    
    
    
    

	This is not legal in the UK, and you won't get a vet to do it however
	much you try.
	If you managed to get someone to bypass the law, then the RSPCA would be
 	down on top of you like a ton of bricks if they found out.

	If you know, 100%, that you have to find a way to encourage the cat not 
	to scratch where you'd prefer they didn't, and scratch what you'd like
	then too, then you will.	
	
	My scratching post is highly popular, the carpet and doors used to be,
	but they aren't any more.

	Mixtures of water-bottle, cat-scram, roast-beef on the top of the post,
	cat-nip mouse tied to the top of the post on a short string,
	showing them how to scratch, catching them in mid furnature-scratch,
	and moving them to the post, re-siting the post, etc etc etc.....

	Sometimes it takes a few minutes, and sometimes months something 
	always works if you persevere, and you don't have to be home all day
	to monitor them either

	Heather.
	

    re: catnip - try it on your cat before putting it on the scratching
    posts.  In some very rare situations the cat is allergic to it.
    
    Once you know the catnip will have the desired effect then use it
    on the scratching posts.
    
    re: Catching them EVERY time - That's why I suggest confining the
    cat when you aren't there to watch  him.  Cats are notorious for
    learning NOT to do something when you are there and then doing
    exactly what they please while you are at work or asleep.  :^)

    We have two cats - one with claws - one without.  Tiffany had her claws
    removed at about 8 months of age - the same time she was spade - and
    she had no adverse medical problems.  She recovered beautifully.
    The only problem she has now - is that she s_l_i_d_e_s on the hardwood
    floors when she is in full gallup taking a corner.
    
    Otis has his claws and I have never had any problems with him scratching 
    when we are around to supervise his behavior.  However, when we are away 
    - the cats play - and he does pretty much what he damn well pleases!  ;*)
    
    He is 12 lbs heavier than Tiffany and I thought that his having claws 
    would put Tiffany at a disadvantage.  But cats - being the very clever 
    animals that they are - have paybacks.  She uses her teeth to get back 
    at him (like washing him while he sleeps and then bites his ear!  It 
    gets him EVERY time!).
    
    The decision to declaw was an easy one for me - I talked it over with
    the vet and trusted her!  The decision to keep them indoors was
    harder...(the other rathole).   
    
    Whatever your decision - I am sure it will be the right one for you and
    your cat.  
    
    Best of luck to you.
    
    Marilyn, Otis and Tiffany
    

>    re: Catching them EVERY time - That's why I suggest confining the
>    cat when you aren't there to watch  him.  Cats are notorious for
>    learning NOT to do something when you are there and then doing
>    exactly what they please while you are at work or asleep.  :^)

you betcha!  I remember my friend Rene's dismay when, after bragging to all
that HER cats NEVER scratched the furniture, she rearranged her living room
and discovered that one side of the couch was DESTROYED where the cats had
been at it --- never when Rene could catch them, but the minute she left
the room....she hadn't seen the destruction because of the manner in which
the furniture was arranged.  It wasn't difficult at all to stop the behavior
because the cats were very focused on THAT section of THAT sofa.  All we
had to do was cover the end of the sofa in heavy-duty plastic sheeting,
and place a good sisal-covered cat post right in front of the spot, rubbed
down with fresh catnip buds.  Once the cat post (a tree trunk really) was
the focus of their adventures, we moved the post and she had the sofa 
re-padded and re-covered.

re: catnip allergies - good point.  I hadn't even considered it.  I do
know that many cats do not react with enthusiasm to catnip due to genetic
differences, but I was not aware of catnip allergies in cats.  Makes sense,
though, as it is distantly related to ragweed (if I'm not mistaken).

    re: allergies - If anyone remembers Denise Shearman - her little fold,
    MacGyver, is allergic to catnip in a serious way.
    

    I'm amazed at how helpful you all are! I manage to read this file
    only occasionally, mostly when I need advice. I came looking for
    advice on breaking scratching behavior and found this note, which
    tells me most of what I need to know.
    
    I have a few additional questions. First is on confining the kitty.
    That will be difficult, as we have two sofas in two different rooms.
    I can't think of a way to confine Poppy short of putting her in 
    the basement or shutting her in one room, neither of which she'd
    like. In fact, confinement seems to encourage the negative behavior.
    Any suggestions on how to block off a portion of the house? We tried
    a baby gate, but she can climb over it.
    
    We try to squirt her when she scratches the sofa, but she never
    does it when we're in the room. By the time we get from the kitchen
    to the family room, she's stopped. Does squirting immediately 
    after the fact help? 
    
    Finally, I need some suggestions on scratching posts. Poppy doesn't
    seem to claw by standing up on her back legs. She prefers crouching
    down and scratching what's under her. She doesn't claw the arms of
    the sofa, for example, but gets on the top of the back and digs in. 
    She also likes to get onto one of the rails of our split-rail fence and claw
    that when she's outside. (She gets so into it that she rolls off 
    the fence) It seems to be the shape she's attracted
    to rather than the texture. Our new sofa is smooth cotton, and she
    still claws it. I think she might like one of those 
    scratching things that's sort of a carpet-covered box that sits
    on the floor. There are a number of different kinds advertised in
    Cat Fancy. Does anyone have any experience with those?
    
    Thanks so much for all the advice.
    
    Kate and Poppy 
    
    
    

    Nippa is confined to the basement when no one is home.  She has her
    very own couch w/ tons of blankets.  She is fed down there and her 
    litter box is down there as well.
    
    She knows when the last person leaves the house that she has to 
    go down there.  She retreats down there when the house gets hectic.
    There is pleanty of space to run around, exposed wood to scratch ect.
    When the first person comes home, she can come upstairs, or go outside.
    
    Nippa does not go on the furniture, counters, tables, climb screens
    whatever.....well except once in awhile is she wants attention she'll
    claw a rug or go on my mom's all white sofa.
    
    We tried an experiment and let her have the run of the house.  We
    noticed and increase in bad behavior with the privillage, so it is back 
    to the same old routine.  My aunt also tried it and has had better luck
    with her cats.
    
    It's worth a shot.
    
    Michele
    

    One other thing I wanted to mention - if you Do have her declawed
    she'll have to be a strictly indoor kitty.
    

    Thanks, Michele, for the encouragement. Is your basement "finished?"
    Ours is, well, a basement -- concrete floor, little tiny windows.
    It's cool and somewhat damp, but not overly so. I'll admit Poppy
    does like to go adventuring down there, (I think she hears mousies.)
    but I feel guilty about confining her there all day with no 
    sunny window to sit in. But, we discussed it last night and can't
    come up with another way to keep her isolated. 
    
    Thanks again for the help.
    
    Kate
    

    re: .30
    
    Well Kate, I had the choice of giving away Nippa (not a chance) or
    help her adjust to the families rules.
    
    THe basement is just an old basement w/ a laundry area, dad's workshop,
    and Nippa's area (Actually she owns the whole basemwnt).
    
    I am home sick today w/ another bout of the flu and she wont even come
    up stairs....she's all curled up in her blankies snoozing untill it's
    the normal time to come up.
    
    She does like to go out and I'm in an area that's suited for allowing
    it and she sits on my dad's lap every nite every chance she can.  We
    usually end the nite playing bunny or `catch the paper airplane'
    Nippa has lots of love and attention, and she's basicially well
    behaved!
    
    My aunt did have a few problems adjusting her two to a similar pattern
    but she remained firm and they happily adjusted.  (note:  my aunt is
    retired and travels a lot, and when she'd leave the cats would get
    even.  It was becoming a problem, and the confining to the basement
    solved it....they don't get mad when she travels anymore).
    
    Some folks may disagree w/ what I had to do, but I'd rather deal with
    it this wayan give her up. 
                              

    It's not that I confine my cats to the basement....but boy
    every night when I get home...they all want to take there
    stroll down to the basement.  They love it down there....and
    drive me nuts... until I open the door. 
    
    I feel as long as you have some toys, blankets, food and litter
    down there....and there is nothing they can get hurt on...
    they will be very happy and content.  Don't feel guilty just spend
    a little more time with him when your at home.
 
     Sandy
    

    What is it with cats and basements?  Mine will sit down there in the
    coldest of weather and love every minute of it!!
    

RE: scratching post/surface for the "lay down" scratcher....boy do I have
a solution for you, and they are cheap!!

in most pet supply stores nowdays you can find cardboard boxes filled with
corrugated cardboard that has been well dusted with real catnip....you take
off the lid and VOILLA, you got kitty heaven.  My bunch rub on it, scratch
it (both clawed and de-clawed cats love to scratch this jewel), sit and
hatch it, and have king of the mountain battles over it.  I buy one a week
for $6.00  and change.  They come in several names and they are sold by
catalog and thru cat fancy and cats magazine ads.  The last one has really
lasted more than a month -- i just recharge the catnip in it once a week.
We call it "giving the little darlings their drugs every saturday night".
A regular ceremony.

Find one and your cat will love you almost as much as she does when you
feed her salmon (or trout, or lamb, or...).... 8^}


				D

    My cats also love the basement - and ours is a dirty old stone
    foundation basement - UGH!  Mao will go down there and sleep on
    a dirty rag for hours.  During the summer you can hear crickets down
    there so no doubt they go down to hunt :^)
    
    Cats are creatures of habit and they may protest when you first try
    to institute a new routine, but once they've adjusted to it they'll
    be upset if you DON'T follow the routine.  :^)

    Re: .34
    
    Thanks, Dian, for the tip. I got one of the scratching boxes the
    other night, and Poppy seems to like it, she just won't *scratch*
    it. She rubs against it. She sleeps on it. She even took her
    favorite toy, Mr. Mousie, over to see it. But we can't get her
    to scratch it. I put some fresh catnip on it. We've tried many
    times to take her over to it and teach her to scratch. We've
    also been taking her over to it for treats. But she doesn't get
    it, at least not yet. Any other suggestions on initiating the
    scratching?
    
    We're studying how we can make a nice, safe area for Poppy in 
    the basement. I really don't think she'll mind it. She's taken
    to spending quite a bit of time down there, sleeping on a piece
    of carpet my husband has stretched between two saw horses (I
    think it's supposed to be for one of his woodworking projects.
    Poppy thinks it's a kitty hammock.)
    
    Thanks again for the advice.
    
    Kate
     

    Re .36 - try dragging a string across it so that Poppy
    claws at the scratching box
    

    Or (and this sounds pretty dumb), scratch it yourself when the cat is
    close by.  Especially if the cat is in a playful mood.  It worked for
    us.
    
    kim

yes, a demo may help....of course, if someone catches you at it, then you have
to try and explain the behavior  8^}

Actually, if the cat is rubbing and playing around the box, she will probably
start clawing it eventually, especially if you PRAISE her for any action that
seems like it might be clawing...but I do, seriously, like the idea of demo-ing
the use of it.

    re: demo - you wouldn't be the first one to demo the post, nor the
    last.  Jack and I have done it on many occasions.  Of course, the
    cats look at us like we're nutz!
    

>>>	Of course, the cats look at us like we're nutz!
    

but then, being owned by cats, I'm sure you're used to that expression....
Hannah has this down to a fine art and she is, of course, teaching all she
knows to Mandycat, her cohort in crime these days...8^}

    I wanted to let you all know how things have worked out with 
    Poppy's sofa-scratching habit. It was h*ll for a while. We started
    keeping her confined during the day, either in the basement or
    on the screened porch on warm days. She started to use her
    "scratchie box" that we got her. But still, she went for the sofa. 
    Every time she did it, we got her with the squirt bottle and
    put her in the spare room for penalty time. 
    
    Smart kitty that she is, she soon learned what the routine would
    be and ran and hid every time she was scratching and heard someone
    coming. Our house is fairly large, and we have two sofas. We were
    going nuts trying to catch her every time she did it. Finally, I 
    would just wait until she came out of hiding, take her back to the
    sofa, squirt her, and say, "no, no, no." She hated it, and it was
    so painful for me to do it. 
    
    But I think the message got through (knock on upholstery). She hasn't
    scratched the sofa in weeks and seems to prefer scratching her box. 
    She also started scratching a piece of Berber carpet she found in
    a box in the basement, so we've moved that upstairs as an official
    scratching device. (I know never to do my house in that stuff!)
    
    I'm interested to see whether the scratching behavior returns in
    the fall. It seems to me that we didn't have much trouble with her
    last year until the weather turned cool and she couldn't go out
    as much. 
    
    Thanks so much for all the advice -- and especially the 
    encouragement. I was really feeling desperate for a while
    that we'd never break the habit. 
    
    Kate
    

    Kate -
      Perhaps you could trim her nails in the fall.  That might help
    decrease the scratching a little.  I know mind will go and scratch
    immediately after I've trimmed their nails but perhaps after that
    initial scratch they'll do it less.
      Nancy