Conference misery::feline_v1

    How about not allowing him in the kitchen when you aren't there.
    Lock him in the bathroom or in the basement and when he is out and
    even looks at the counter,chairs or table give him a good shot with
    the CAT enforcer.  Plus, I wouldn't leave food out anymore either.
    It's expensive to lose and an unnecessary temptation for a KIT
    (Kitten In Training).
    Lisa & Flirtaysha

    Unfortunately it sounds like normal cat behavior to me. Mocha
    was a stray also and is approximately the same age as Otis.
    Mocha still gets up on the counter when we are not home and
    when he has the kitchen to himself. Leave any butter out and
    it's either gone or has cat "tongue priints" on it. He will
    not eat any butter you put in his cat dish or lick a butter
    dish that is destined for the dish washer.
    
    Please don't be too hard on Otis. I keep telling Mocha since
    I didn't know what he experienced in his other life and he did
    pick us out as his owners (and don't cute faces always have it?)
    I give him a CERTAIN amount of leway. This doesn't give him
    permission to do any counter/eat any food off them while I am
    looking. I have trained myself to try and keep all tempting things
    things out of his sight and reach.
    
    Barbara & her 3M's

    Linus goes wherever he pleases and ever since he was a kitten he
    decided that this was the way it was going to be with us.  I tried to
    keep him off things...but...he never would agree to this rule.  So, I
    guess it's ok since he's an indoor cat and he doesn't really have that
    many places to roam around.  But, I never, ever leave anything out that
    I know he'll get into...that's just too much temptation for him...he
    never misses anything from food to any kind of new item in the
    apartment.  I really don't mind having to be careful...he's worth it!
    
    Di & Li

    I could never keep Kelsey off the counter!  He loves it up there; in
    fact, he loves to be anywhere that is higher than the floor.  When I
    was growing up, my mom would feed the cats on the countertop because
    the dogs would eat the food if left on the floor.  So, counter cats
    have always been second nature to me... sort of par for the course for
    cat owners.
    
    Lots of people have successfuly trained their cats to stay off the
    counters.  It requires a lot of consistency, time, and patience.  I
    can't remember the exact methods used; maybe someone else can tell us
    that.
    
    I just think that if you own a cat, you have to be prepared for this
    sort of behavior.  Kelsey is all over the place, including the dining
    room table, and it is second nature for me to be washing everything a
    million times before sitting down to eat!!
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    Re: turkey sandwich, how to protect
    
    
    Yes.  Don't leave turkey sandwiches out on the counter.
    Really :-) How much temptation do you expect a pussycat
    to endure.  My guys would kill for turkey.  Keep your
    lunch in the refrigerator when you aren't around.
    
    

>    Lots of people have successfuly trained their cats to stay off the
>    counters.  It requires a lot of consistency, time, and patience.  I
>    can't remember the exact methods used; maybe someone else can tell us
>    that.
    
Really? She said questioningly.... you can train a cat to stay off the
counters WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING, but I don't believe for a minute that a
four-legged cat will stay off counters that might have something tasty
or "nice smelly" on them.  As cats get older, they may get out of the
habit of trying too often...being relatively smart creatures, they learn
to take the easy road as time goes on...but even our 17 year old will
occasionally muster a jump up to "forbidden territory" to "check it out".

TRIVIAL FACT:  domestic cats descended from a creature that is the common 
ancestor to the cats in S. America and Africa - all of which evince at 
least some aborreal preferences - even large cats like leopards 
LIKE HIGH PLACES -  they feel "safe" there....AND they carry their food 
there to protect it from other ground-bound predators.  The exceptions 
to this "rule" are rare and, generally, are simply too big and heavy to 
get into the trees in their environment - lions on the serengheti for 
instance.  I suspect the association with high places being "safe" and
a vague connection between high places and food is a hereditary trait of
the species feline.  How to deal with it?  I suggest the following
approach:

	1) wash counters and tables before using them - assume they've
	   been walked on by little furry paws
	2) discourage use of the surfaces when you are around
	3) provide a sturdy cat tree with a surface to hang out on
	   that is HIGHER than the counter tops - ergo "safer"
	4) don't leave tempting things out on the counter for even
	   a minute unattended.  Remember, cats live by their noses.
	   their sense of smell is so much better than ours and your
	   turkey sandwich/hamburger/hotdog/steak (raw or cooked) smells
	   like !FOOD! - and that is irrestable to a predator.

	5) Enjoy the feline(s) in your life ...8^}

    With my big gang, I have the counter problem too.  Some of my cats must
    be fed on the counter. There are several of them that just have to eat
    up on high and will get into their respective spots at feeding time. At
    least they stay off pretty much the rest of the time, but I guess being
    the smaller cats in the crowd, they feel safer eating up there.
    I only have one kitty that is a major problem and that's because in her
    previous 13 years of life, she was allowed by her former owner to jump 
    up even at meal times.  I have to squirt her.
    
    
                        Denise and the gang of 11

    Well, I make my lunch the night before and keep it in the refrigerator
    over night. However, I have to take it out after I feed the cats and
    put it by my briefcase or else I'll forget it. What I did was buy one
    of those small insulated zipper lunch bags. They are normally under $5
    (I bought mine at Building 19 for $.50). I don't think that the cats
    can smell through it, and I know that they haven't yet figured out how
    to unzip it. The nice thing about these bags is that:
    
    	1. They are insulated so lunch is less apt to spoil
    	2. You can fit in a couple of cans of tonic from home (and not have 
    	   to drink the syrupy stuff from a machine). It's cheaper, too. 
    	3. If it is pouring rain, your lunch bag doesn't get soaked causing
    	   your lunch to fall on the ground.
    
    Deb

    I know that a couple of tricks to training cats to stay off surfaces
    involve putting things like pie pans full of water or sticky side up
    tape on the counters so that the cat is in for an unpleasant surprize
    when it jumps up.  The other good thing about those methods is that
    they work even when you aren't there ;^}  
    
    The squirt bottle is another idea - especially if you squirt him
    from a hidden spot.  You want him to associate getting squirted with
    being on the counter not with you being in the room.
    
    Now whether or not those methods work is another question.  I've never
    felt it necessary to teach my cats not to get on the counters.  In 
    fact some of them eat on the counters.  The only place that's off
    limits is the diningroom table when we're eating there.  That's usually
    when there are guests around.  The squirt bottle is a big help there.
    
    I agree with those who advise you to keep your food away from the cats.
    I use the microwave myself.  Unfortunately, I think someone's figured 
    out how to open the fridge!!  If I leave food out on the counters,
    I blame myself if the cats eat it.
      Nancy DC

    I gave up trying to keep them off the counters and have just learned
    to always wash the counter/table before using it.   It never fails
    that I have little paw prints running across the table, over the
    chairs, and up onto the counter.   Did you ever try polishing
    the table and chairs....teh teh...kitty's can slide very well.
    
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, Barkley, Agnes, Chole, Dewey and Abby)
                
    
    

    I never had this problem, but...
    
    Are your cats self-feeding?  Perhaps I have great luck because 
    they always have their own dry food available?

    Reading the replys to the base note has made me feel so much better
    after having "got it" from my mother-in-law and brother-in-law re: my
    cats on the counter and kitchen table.  Our cats have run of the house
    and perch up on what ever they please.  My counters and table are
    constantly washed and the only time the cats are not allowed on the
    kitched table is when we are eating or preparing food.  The squirt
    bottle stands on the table during meals and preparation - they take one
    look and take off.
    
    Of course my mother-in-law has the perrrrrrfect cat - she doesn't get
    up on anything and my brother and sister-in-law don't exactly go for
    cats as a rule - the whole bunch thought we were nuts for having more
    than 2.  If they only knew - If we had a larger place we'd have a lot
    more than 3.
    
    Giudi +3

    re: self-feeders - Well, I'm thinking mine have learned to open
    the fridge.
    
    re: .12 - Next time your in-laws complain tell them about the nut
    in Braintree with 11!  That ought to shut them up ;-P

re: those that have perfect cats who never get up on the table or counters...

I wonder what they would find if they sprinkled talcum powder over these
surfaces and left the house completely for an 8 hour period?  Any bets?
Especially if they had any food stuff near the counter any time recently...
I'd bet they'd find little paw prints all over the house...

      Re last few...
      WHY would anyone WANT a "perfect" cat or dog?? You'd be better off if
    you just bought a stuffed animal...and it would cost less. Sure, they
    give you heartburn now and then, but their antics are what makes them
    appealing...(except of course when 5 of them begin "obstacle-course"
    training at 3:00 in the morning!!)
    
      Jeez...if those inlaws could only see MY house...with 10 dogs laying
    around on the couch and various chairs, and 5 cats snoozing on various
    table tops, counters, sometimes on the radiator, sometimes even inside
    my wife's purse....(someday "Stormy" is going to be taken to work with
    her if she doesn't stop crawling into that purse!!)
    
      Of course, all of our "kids" are members of the family..and have
    almost equal if not superior priveleges...(And I never see any of them
    get up and go to work in the morning....)
    
     John Mc

    re: .15 - AMEN TO THAT!!

      Most of the time Hamilton stays off the counter and table, but when
    he has been up there we can always tell---black Persians shed EVERY-
    WHERE! He leaves hair where ever he's been. I've heard that putting
    large boxes upside down along the edge of counters and tables will dis-
    courage a cat from trying to jump up. We also leave food out all day
    for him and there are only three places in the house he's not allowed,
    the dining room table, kitchen counter and coffee table. There are var-
    ious bookshelves, lamp tables, etc. near windows that he is allowed on,
    and has claimed for his own! As a matter of fact, he's claimed the
    whole house as his own. And we've given it freely. He's our baby (an
    only child) and as much a part of the family as anyone!
    
    b.r.
     

    	I'll tell you... I'd hate it if my baby was purrfect.  I'd be
    bored if I wasn't yelling at her to "get away from the bird", "get
    off the counter", "get off the table", "don't eat mommy's dinner!",
    etc.  But what makes her all worthwhile is when she sit on my Blankie
    with me at night and makes a double king sized bed on my belly while
    we share some cheese slices and watch TV.  Her purr just makes my
    day.

    
     This note tempted me to enter this reply seeing it involves counters
    and food. This past Sunday I was having my parents over for coffee and
    such and Deb made a coffee cake to serve with the coffee. And of course
    Bijou (blu Aby) just had to be right there to help out. (I was in the
    living room watching the Celtics of course !!) Anyway, I can hear her
    scolding my boy from afar and just had to chuckle.. Twice he got chased
    out of the kitchen and he comes in to see me with batter on his paws,
    whiskers, and flour all over his face. My boy got the goods !!! 8^)
    
     I am the household "get the cake out of the pan" person so I had the
    job of presenting the cake with icing and all. I decided to put the
    cake in a Corell dish and use Deb's crystal cake dish top to cover it.
    Well while were chit chatting in the parlor later, there is this loud
    "somethings been knocked off the counter" sound and Deb had those
    "Marty Felman" eyes to her. I sprung to the kitchen and there was my
    "boy" completly engulfed in large chunks of still warm coffee cake
    all over the floor, with bliss on his face and an upset mother.
    
     Luckily the kitchen floor had enough give and nothing broke or I
    wouldn't be typing this today... As for my boy Bijou...
    
    
    He's just a happy cake eating kinda of a guy !! Wouldn't you say ??
    
    George

    Amen and thanks to all.  Glad we all feel the same way about this.  I
    don't know how I'd feel if I didn't see three faces staring at me
    everything I opened up the fridge, or a pounce on the counter as I open
    a can of food - that's why I have the little darlings - for these
    endearing trates - for their independence and because I like to say NO
    over and over again.
    
    What is the perrrrfect cat? To each his own I guess but I wouldn't do a
    thing to change mine - I feel like if it's not broken then don't fix
    it.
    
    Oh, mine are all self feeders - open cabinets, doors, boxes, packages
    etc. but they haven't quite mastered the fridge - but they've gotten
    faster on the uptake - as soon as the door opens - stand aside - your
    sure to find a cat trying to squeeze on the shelf that's got the
    chicken or shrimp.
    
    Ha Ha, and if the in-laws don't like it - they don't have to come for
    dinner, either!
    
    
    Giudi+3

    Guidi,
    
    I had to laugh at your line "because I like to say NO over and over
    again".  I didn't realize that's one of the reasons I need cats...to
    learn to say no to people.  Now I just have to learn how to say no
    nicely :-)
    
    Bernice
    Mother_of_four

    I say no to Kelsey so many times per day that he thinks his name is
    Kelsey NO!
    
    :^)