Conference misery::feline_v1

    Gail -
      How many cat boxes do you have and how many cats.  It could be that
    you need to add another catbox.  
    
    The diarrea and loose stool could be the result of changing diet. 
    This is very common in kittens when they go to their new home.  Also,
    I have found "puddles" near the catbox on the occasions when someone 
    has diarrea.  It obviously upsets them and I don't know if the pooping
    outside the box is due to their being upset and feeling lousy or if
    they just don't make it to the box in time.  
    
    If he continues to poop outside the box you'd better confine him with
    a box of his own until he's back in the habit of using the box.
    
    BTW - some cats insist on having a separate box for pee and for poop.
    He may be one of those.  Try the new box first.
      Nancy DC

    Oh - and if the diarrea returns I'd take him to the vet.

    
     Added note - I have since found 3 poops in this huge grapefruit tree
    we have in a big pot in the livingroom, and 2 more in other places in
    the house hold.
    
    /g

    
    I have one box for the 2 kittens.  They are brother and sister.
    
    thanks Nancy,
    
    /gail

    Gail,
    
    First I'm so happy to hear that you adopted two kitties from
    Pricilla's.  Isn't she a wonderful lady!  Hopefully these two
    babies can get back to normal.
    
    I believe the Diarrhea is due to the change in the kitties food
    and surroundings.  When we brought Dewey home (street kitty from
    Worcester) the poor thing had Diarrhea for almost three weeks. He
    did not poop all over the house...but we did constrain him to
    the spare room with his own litter box.  He was very sick, under-
    nourshied, and had worms.  You figure street kitties are use to
    eating garbage.  Maybe putting them back in the one room for
    awhile...might help.  Just make sure you pay alot of attention
    to them.....so they don't turn back to being afraid of everything.
    
    A way to solve any problem with cats pooping in big pots with trees
    is simple.   Take a bunch of pine cones and cover the top of the
    dirt with them.  I had this problem...and since I put the pine
    cones in there...the one cat goes over to smell and runs away.
    
    My little Chloe also had a problem with rubbing her bum on the
    rug...and she did have worms.  If this continues it might be
    worth getting another sample of the stool and having it re-tested.
    Most street kitties do get worms from the things they eat.
    
    Well good luck...and please keep us posted. 
                                                               
    Sandy (Tamba, Poco, Barkley, Chloe, Anges, Dewey and No name)
                                   

    Gail -
      If they are real little kittens then the house may be a bit too
    big for them with only one catbox.  Again, I'd encourage you to
    run at least one more box for them.  For now, I"d put it near the
    plant that they have been using.  If the cats have been used to being
    outside then dirt would be an obvious choice for "box material".  I'm
    sure that he thinks the plant pot is another catbox :-)
    
    If they were outside then the chances that they have worms or coccidia
    (bacterial infection) are very very good.  I also had a situation with
    Jesse (an x-stray) where the stool sample came back negative (I
    couldn't believe it) and Jesse very obligingly threw up 3 roundworms
    the next morning for me to show the vet!  Cats and kittens have a
    "pot-bellied" look when they have worms.  
    
    Nancy
    

    Gail, Coccidia can be very common as NDC said and can cause this
    behaviour.  I have also found that kittens can just be poo-heads until
    they are about a year old.  Their poops always smell to high heaven
    until they mature anyway!  Another idea to protect the plants, I either
    use a coffee can plastic lid with a slit and a hole in the middle to go
    around the trunk or tin foil to cover the dirt. This seems to
    discourage them too.  Give them a little time.
    karen, ruby, stinky, wing

    I second the idea to run another stool sample.  T.K., who was an
    outdoor, feral cat, turned up negative for rounds in his first stool
    sample, yet after I got him home from the vets he proceeded to have
    diarreah right next to the box the next week.  He turned up positive
    for roundworms the second time and was treated.
    
    I also agree with Karen regarding using the houseplants for a
    litterbox.  For a long time after I got T.K., he would actually sleep
    in the large ficus tree with his body wrapped around the trunk!  I
    think he wasn't used to a warm couch or bed, just as your kittens are
    still getting used to using a litterbox.  I have two jumbo sized boxes
    for 4 cats.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    
    I had this problem with my cat Callie.  She would leave a present
    right next to the cat box!  She would also go to the bathroom in
    my ficus trees and we had a bucket full of rock salt and she 
    went in there too!
    
    What I would do was every once in a while, I'd pick her up and
    put her right in the cat box just to remind her that that is 
    the place to go to the bathroom and not anywhere else.
    
    I also believe that by the way Callie cleans herself, she
    is a VERY CLEAN cat.  There may be one little mess in the
    catbox and your cat just might not want to use the box.
    I had a feeling that when Callie went to the bathroom
    right next to the box, she was trying to tell me to clean
    the box or take the little shovel and get that little present
    out of there or else.  It's not like the box was dirty but
    to her one little No. 2 was a nitemare.  I had two cats so
    it wasn't easy.  your cat also might not like to share the
    box with another cat even if they are brother and sister.
    I'm sure your kitty will grow out of this.  Callie is
    1 1/2 now and she has just started to stop.
    
    Best of luck!
    Chris_&_Callie

    My vets have always reccommended having at least 1 box per two cats.
    Also, you mention that this little guy of still a kitten. Is the box
    shallow enough for a kitten? If he has an upset tummy, it is possible
    that he just loses it before he can jump into a deep box. I also
    remember that then Panther was a kitten sometimes he'd just get so
    excited he either couldn't control his functions (equivalent to a human
    laughing too hard with a full bladder) or he "forget" where the box
    was. This "problem" cleared up as he got a bit older.
    
    My Pip, who is almost 10 years old, carried a protozoia for several
    years before if finally showed up in a stool sample. And having adopted
    8 former ferals and strays, I can tell you that it is just a matter of
    "luck" of brining in a sample that shows worms (the worms will only
    show up during a certain part of their life cycle; if you don't
    actually see a worm, then the look for eggs in the sample). I've had
    experiences similar to Nancy's where samples were negative and within
    days kitty either coughed up or deposited stool with visible worms. 
    Oh, and usualy if it was a deposit, it was right next to the box,
    almost as if kitty knew that it was important to let me know that there
    was a problem.
    
    Deb

    Hi Gail!
    
    I was just wondering what you are feeding them and if they are still 
    getting baby food as their diet?  Also, if given cow's milk that could
    give them diarrhea.
    
    I do agree with getting them checked again for worms though.
    
    Good luck.
    Pat
    

    You can also cover the plantpot with screen or chicken
    wire. (My, how attractive! :-))   That will keep them 
    out of the pot.
    
    Just curious.....Is the treatment for worms so rough on
    kittens that vets *must* test a stool sample first?  When I
    brought in my two when I first got them, the vet
    took one look, said they were wormy, and dosed them right
    then & there.  (They had the round belly denoting worms) 
                      
    I would think that the bum dragging is a serious enough
    symptom to denote worms.
    
    Lynne

1. The worming treatment is actually a poisen, so you don't want to induce
   poisen into the cat if you don't have to.

2. For many worms, treatment is only effective at certain times in the
   worms life cycle.

Deb

    
    Well, thanks for all the replys.  Here is the update.  After speaking
    to Pricilla, she had me bring the kitty up to her place and she brought
    him to her vet where he is spending the weekend.  I will be picking him
    up tomorrow. I called the vet yesterday, he was diagnosed with worms,
    and is being treated.  They will be sending home a tube of 'paste"
    which is his medicine, and they said he is doing better.  They are
    also going to give me the paste to administer to his sister, since I
    guess it's easy to pass the worms back and forth.  She does not really
    show any symtoms except a bit of a loose stool but I am following
    doctor's orders.
    
    While Bindit was there they also gave him his 2nd round of shots.
    I can't wait to get him.  Also, since he has been gone, Holly has
    really turned into a "people cat", she has come out of her shy shell in
    a big way!  She is all over me, and so cute, sleeping with me now and
    running around the house like a maniac - just like a regular kitten
    would.  She was the shyer of the 2 - I hope Bindit adjusts well when he
    comes home, he was doing great before.
    
    thanks for all the encouragement.
    
    /gail

    Bum dragging can be a symptom of anal gland trouble too, so if the cat
    is doing that the best thing to do is take them into the vet to find
    out exactly what is wrong.
    
    Jo

    
    
    Hi-
    
      Yesterday I picked up Bindit from the vet.  he was done being wormed,
    but they sent me home w/some diarhea medicine, to be given twice a day.
    He seems a bit worse if anything - last night he had a little accident
    on my leg, and again next to the box, it's as if he can't control it
    too well and he sounds very gassy.  I called the vet and they said to
    give the medicine for a week and then if he's not better bring him back
    in.  I think I will wait another day or 2 and if I see no improvement I
    am calling back.  Holly (his sister) still seems fine, she is now in
    the process of being wormed.
    
    Anybody have anything like this happen to them?
    
    thanks,
    /gail
    
    ps.  the plant has been safe since I put the pine cones in it!!

    RE: .16
    
    Both of my cats had a bout with diarrhea right after I got them as
    kittens.  My vet gave us some medicine (Amoxicillin, I think) and said
    that the diarrhea may get worse for a day or two before it started
    getting better.  After about 5 or 6 days both babies were fine.  Just
    give it a little more time...
    
    Good luck,
    Paula  (Snuggles & Peaches)
    

    Poor Bindit.....what are you feeding him.  If you are feeding him
    a variety of different types of cat food (turkey, beef, liver, etc)
    ...maybe just feeding him one kind might help.   Hopefully he is
    eating pretty good.  There are a few homemade remedy's for diahrea
    in this notes file....I remember one was with rice and chicken...
    can anyone point to the specific notes. 
    
    My Dewey (stray from Worcester) had diarhea for the first three
    weeks...he also had worms, a cold and was very undernourshed.  Well
    I am happy to say that the little terror is full of spunk and has
    more energy then my other 6 cats put together.  It took patients,
    love, and alot of "cleaning up" after him.  We did keep him confined
    to our spare room during that time.
    
     Good luck...and keep us posted on Bindit.
    
    Sandy
                                           

home remedies are:

steamed/boiled rice mixed with poached chicken...if the cat will eat it, it
may help.  Give it at least 8 hours after the first feeding to work.

if your vet agrees, kaopectate.  You must discuss this with the vet first
as your dosage depends on the size of the animal.  I find that three eye
droppers full twice a day for a 10 pound cat works fine...however, your vet
may have a specific reason to not use it.

dried food.  Sometimes, canned food can be too "rich" for a cat that is not
used to it.  I find that my Hannah simply cannot eat it without getting the
runs.  A quality dried food may settle their systems and then you can begin
to include small amounts of canned food to see if it works.

food with dyes to make it look good to you....forget the supermarket brands
with the cute names.  Cats don't spell anyway.  Try a premium food like
Science Diet or IAMS or Old Mother Hubbard or something plain, but healthy.

in my experience, what WON'T WORK is yoghurt....it is a dairy food and it
doesn't seem to help a cat with a loose bowel.

If the problem is truly uncontrolled, it must be dealt with fast...a cat
can become dehydrated to the point of endangering life very quickly...they
weigh so little to begin with.  I would call the vet again if it is that
uncontrolled that the cat doesn't make it to the box.

Keep us posted and GOOD LUCK.

    re: yogurt - There is a very specific case for using yogurt.  That is
    ONLY in the situation where the diarrea results from antibiotics.  In
    this case the cat has normal stool until put on antibiotics.  The
    reason is that the antibiotics kill off the bacteria that normally
    live in the intestine.  AS A RESULT of the loss of bacteria the
    cat or dog develops diarrea.  Feeding plain yogurt with active cultures
    every day - say a tablespoon or so - supplies bacteria to aid in
    digestion.  
    
    Do NOT use yogurt as a cure for diarrea from any other reason than
    antibiotics.
      Nancy DC