Conference misery::feline_v1

    Cheryl,  
    Yes, you can show a neutered cat.  You will get points towards what
    they call a Premiership (CFA).  What the difference is is that if the
    cat isn't neutered, you can work towards a championship.  This is
    helpful if you intend to breed or start a cattery.  If you have a
    cattery then a neutered cat that wins can still say something for what
    you have bred.  The other side of it is that you can do it for the fun
    and excitement of it as a neuter.
    
    Some breeders who sell a kitten as "show quality" may want the cat
    shown as is and will request that you don't neuter with this in mind. 
    They can also ask for future stud service or kittens from this cat (if
    agreed to in advance,  these would be conditions for sale).
    
    What do you intend to do with the cat itself?  What does the breeder
    say that you bought it from?
    I hope this is enough information, but if I left something out let me
    know.
    K,R,S,W +A
    

    Cheryl,
    
    I have a neutered Birman male that I show in the premiership class
    (CFA) and alter class (CFF).  Premiership in CFA is equivalent to the
    alter class in CFF.
    
    It is very expensive to show so I try to enter about one show per
    month; it has been less than that lately.  Murdock is currently working
    towards grand championship status in both associations, and the
    requirements for granding are different in each.  For his breeder,
    showing him is good advertising for her cattery, and in CFA, when a
    mother cat has bred 5 grands she receives a "Distinguished Merit
    Award."  I know Murdock's breeder would like his mom to obtain hers,
    so me granding him would assist her in achieving it.
    
    Showing is fun, providing the cat enjoys it!  I have a show quality
    Ragdoll cat who after 2 shows, let me know he would rather stay home! 
    He hissed at exhibitors, hid under his cat bed, and tried to jump off
    the judges table several times all the while screaming his disapproval. 
    Murdock, on the other hand, is a joy to show, which helps me to relax
    and enjoy it too.
    
    Hope this info is helpful.
    
    
    --Roberta

Right now I'm calling breeders/catteries. Of the breeders 
I've talked to, one said that this was her first litter and
that the female is small, so she would only sell as a premiere.
The other said that a show quality was going to be $200 more
than a household pet, and even though she has cats that are
winning, she doesn't breed for show quality -- more for
pet quality.

What I'm looking for is a female, show quality kitten. I
really don't know what type of questions to ask besides
do you have any females, what are it's bloodlines, and 
how much! 

Thanks for the help! Really, it's not important that I get
a female to breed -- though I'd like to! But, I'd like to
make sure that if I get a show quality female, and they
require me to neuter, that I can still show!

Cheryl 

    Cheryl, what breed of cat are you looking for?
    

    I wonder if the breeder you spoke with meant that she breeds to the
    show standards, but prefers to sell the majority of her kittens into
    loving pet homes.  It seems odd to me that her main intention of
    breeding is to make more pet quality cats, when the objective is to
    work toward improving the breed.
    
    In any event, usually a premiership cat is one that is good enough to
    show but falls a bit short of the standard from a breeding standpoint. 
    An example of this is that Murdock's breeder felt he had the markings
    and head type to show in premiership, but that his muzzle was a bit
    longer than what she would like to see in the breeding genepool.  He
    has broadened out since I purchased him, but still has a narrower
    muzzle than what most Birman breeders are working toward in their
    programs.  The male in any breeding program is the backbone of a
    cattery so his type should be outstanding.
    

Well, after much discussions, investigating, etc., my husband and I 
would like to get a Korat. We really don't want to wait a long time
to get one, so I'm trying to find a reputable breeder/cattery that
have kittens available. I've called several of the breeders in
this months Cat Fancy, and if they didn't have kittens, they've
given me names and numbers. I've gotten 2 in Georgia, 2 in
North Carolina, and 1 in Tennessee. I don't like the idea of shipping
a kitten from coast to coast (there are many breeders on the west
coast) so I'd like to stick to the east coast. Since this is my
first venture with trying to find a breeder with show quality 
kittens, I'm not getting much info from them -- so I don't think
I'm asking them the right things! I REALLY REALLY REALLY want a
Korat, and I'd LOVE to get one to breed -- not a requirement! But
I'd like a combination show quality and regular kind of pet! I
already have 2 cats (no particular breed -- just shorthairs) and
I'm really looking forward to a 3rd kitty (do I sound like I'm
deciding on another child, or what?)

Since this is the most knowledgeable group of cat lovers I know,
I thought you would be able to give me the best information. (I
also would love to have a Norwegian Forest Cat, but my husband
said one at a time...)

Thanks again for all your help!

Cheryl

    Cheryl, your husband and my husband share similar thoughts :^).
    
    First of all, Holly Taylor, a Feline noter, raises Korats, and lives in
    Mass.  You might want to drop her mail.  If you tell the breeder that
    what you are looking for is a kitty to show in the premiership class
    but of course be a pet first, then they should be able to take it from
    there.  Most breeders are lucky if they get a really nice show cat in
    their litter, and some are reluctant to part with them.  I think for a
    first time purebred buyer it would be wise of you to visit the cattery
    if at all possible or spend a lot of time talking with the breeder.  A
    good breeder will answer your questions and take time out to educate
    you on the breed.  When I set out to purchase my Ragdoll, I avoided
    those breeders who seemed more eager to rush me off the phone, didn't
    answer my letters, or were more interested in $$'s than anything else.
    
    Remember that good things come to those to wait.  Don't be in a rush
    and purchase from just anyone.  I know how difficult it is to wait when
    you have your mind set on something but slow and sure is the best
    approach.
    
    Good luck to you in your search!
    

    Cheryl,
      I would expect that the reason a breeder doesn't want you to
    neuter a "show quality" cat is that a really high quality cat is
    valuable to a breeding program.  When a breeder produces a kitten 
    of exceptional quality s/he doesn't want that kitten neutered, s/he
    wants it bred to continue the lines.  
    
    You are far more likely to get an exceptional quality male that can
    be neutered, than a female.  Breeders only need one good male in a
    program or maybe two, far less than the number of females they'd need.
      Nancy DC

    Mary Mulrennan in Candia New Hampshire breeds Norwegian Forrest Cats.
    
    Her number is 603.483.2215
    
    
    Elaine

    If you want to be successful in your showing, you should research
    the breeder, her lines, and how her cats do in the association you
    wish to show in.  The standards for the different breeds do vary
    between associations.  If, for example, you wish to show your Korat
    in CFA, it might be a good idea to buy from a breeder that is breeding
    to the CFA standard for Korats.
    
    Let's face it, showing is much more fun when your cat is competitive.
    :^)
    
    Jo

I was communicating with Holly, but I'm having quite a difficult
time trying to contact her! She mentioned that her Korat was going
to have kittens (if she bred her) sometime this month, I believe.
I keep sending her mail messages, I've called a few times (no
answer at the phone), so I don't know if she has kittens or not!
I did tell her I was VERY interested in one of her kittens, and
that was the last I heard! Does she still work for Digital? Is
there ANOTHER Holly?

Also, I'm waiting to get pictures of the 2 breeders I talked at
length with. Question: is it "out of the question" to ask the
breeder (after I have purchased the kitten) to have a week in
order to get a vet to look it over, and make sure that she's in
good health? I don't want to get a kitten that could potentially
be sick!

Thanks,

Cheryl, Shanti and Charlie

    Cheryl, most good breeders will insist that you take your new kitten to
    your own vet for a "well check" and usually allot ample time to do so. 
    If the vet finds something wrong then the breeder will either take the
    kitten back and treat it themselves or pay for your vet to treat it. 
    Personally, I feel better knowing that I have visited the cattery and
    seen the kittens and cats and the environment they were raised in first
    hand, unless the breeder of choice comes highly recommended from a very
    reliable source.  I also prefer that the kitten comes to me with a
    health certificate from a liscensed vet.  This doesn't guarantee that
    soemthing can't go wrong, as evidenced by the loss of my Ragdoll
    cats a year after purchase (lethal heart defects that became obvious as
    the kittens grew) -- no vet could have picked that up at three months
    of age.
    
    I don't know what Holly does for a living, but do know that she has a
    very busy job.  As a breeder, I highly recommend her, and feel you
    can't go wrong doing business with her from afar.  My Birman came from
    Maryland; I had never met his breeder personally or visited her home
    and he arrived healthy, happy, and very well adjusted at six months of
    age!
    
    Please don't give up on Holly yet!  Maybe someone in here can EMAIL you
    her home phone number?  She lives in Leominster, MA.
    
    Good luck!
    
    --Roberta
    

    Didn't Holly move to NH?
    
    I want to second a few things Roberta said.  I breed Scottish folds and
    I give my customers a 2 week return period for any reason at all.
    (The cat doesn't match my drapes...who knows..... ;-)  I also strongly
    encourage them to take the kitten to a vet within 48 hrs of purchase.
    I am also willing to get a health certificate from the vet.
    
    Tho I don't specify it, I would be willing to take responsibility for
    any "reasonable" illness that the kitten should come down with within
    the first 30 days and of course would take responsibility for any
    defects that show up down the line.  I'm doing my best to breed very
    healthy kittens and I'll stand behind them.  Any responsible breeder
    would be willing to do something similar.
    
    Keep trying to contact Holly.  If you don't have any luck, go to the
    Marlboro Show on Nov 10 or the Plymouth show on Nov 4.  Holly often
    clerks and if she doesn't her cousin Heather does.
      Nancy

I sent Holly a VAXmail, and got a reply! YEA!!!! I guess persistance pays off!

She doesn't have any kittens either! But I did tell her the breeders that I have
talked to. Possibly she knows them, or knows of one that is definitely
a reputable breeder.

Also, once I get my kitten, I know I will be registered with KCFA, but how do
I get information (registration) for CFA and TICA? I've probably missed seeing
it in CAT FANCY, but I did look and didn't see any information. If you have
addresses, and could give me what information I'll need, I'd really appreciate
it!

Thanks again!
Cheryl, Shanti and Charlie

    When I sell a kitten, I request that when the person buying the
    kitten take the kitten to the vet for a 'wellness visit' within
    the first two weeks after taking their kitten home. 
    
    You SHOULD have the right to have time to take the kitten to
    the vet, and if you find ANY problems, you should CONTACT
    THE BREEDER IMMEDIATLEY to discuss the problem.  Usually,
    the breeder will be helpful and provide you with suggestions
    or even medicationl to help you solve your problems.  
    
    Good Luck.
    
    E.T.

    I think I'm suprised at the number of breeders who give such a generous
    time frame for a vet check.  Many things can happen in a one to two week 
    time frame, and you, the breeder, are responsible for taking back the
    kitten, giving a refund, paying for vet fees?  It dosent make sense.
    
    Maybe it's that untrusting nature coming out again........
    
    Michele 

    My contract requires that the new owner take the kitten to the vet
    within 3 business days.  That is for the well check.  I also send
    the kitten with a health certificate, and negative FIV and Felv
    test, and a negative fecal exam.  If the cat becomes ill within
    the first 14 days, I will do one of the following things; take the
    kitten back and return the full purchase price, replace the kitten
    with a new kitten, take the kitten back and have it treated by my
    vet, then return it to the owner, or pay for any medications that
    the owner's vet prescribes for the kitten.  I let the owner choose
    which option they wish to take.  
    
    Not all my contracts are exactly alike though.  There are often
    extenuating circumstances, so my contracts are tailored to the
    individual situation.  I have only once had to take a kitten back
    within the 14 day period.
    
    I don't feel that in every case if a kitten becomes sick within
    a week it is the breeder's fault.  There are very often times when
    a new kitten becomes sick due to it not being used to the flora
    and fauna of the new home.  This is especially true of homes that
    already own other cats.  Anytime you put a cat into a new home
    environment, that cat is going to be stressed.  Stress will lower
    the immunity of the cat.  With a depressed immunity, that cat is
    more prone to picking up something.  This isn't always the breeders
    fault. (I think that ringworm may be an exception here)
                             
    Jo

    Pam, while I don't know Meg personally, I have heard of her.  IMHO, if
    a person decides to breed animals they have a responsibility to their
    buying public to follow through with their responsibilities.  This
    includes everything from following up on mail/phone calls to ensuring
    that each and every kitten that leaves their cattery is free from
    obvious signs of disease and parasites, and properly vaccinated. 
    Providing appropriate paperwork after spaying/neutering is completed
    is included in this list -- after all, YOU followed through with your
    end of the contract by having Zula neutered.  I believe there are legal
    steps you can take to obtain what's owed you; whether or not it is
    worth it to do so is another matter altogether.   I understand that
    breeding animals is a hobby and not a breeder's full-time job but any
    responsibility undertaken should be followed through to completion. 
    There are no excuses for ignoring requests for information, especially
    when money has already exchanged hands.
    
    Forget the gentle nudge -- give her a good swift kick where it counts!!
    

    re: 16
    
    Yes, it's true, that many things can happen.  Each circumstance is
    different and must be treated that way.  If our kittens are healthy,
    they should stay that way.  When things go wrong, the breeder and
    new owner need to communicate.
    
    I guess if I paid the amount of money a pet kitten costs, I would
    want a healthy kitten.  As Jo mentioned later on, each circumstance
    is different.  It's very difficult to guarantee the health of a kitten
    going to a home where there are other cats already residing unless you
    know the entire situation.  I think that a kitten going to a home with
    no other cats can go with a two-week health guarantee, provided that
    the new owner lives up to their part of the bargain by bringing the
    kitten to the vet within the two-week period for a wellness visit.
    
    If the kitten is well for two weeks, then comes down with a cold
    or another minor thing, the breeder should be contacted and details
    should be worked out with the new owner and the breeder as to money
    and such things.  But, the breeder should WANT to be notified.  It's
    the new owner's responsibility to notify the breeder when there are
    problems, especially continuing problems.  Most breeders WANT to 
    help out and can offer suggestions to solve problems.
    
    E.T.

    What is a "sketch" pedigree?
    
    

    I haven't heard the term before.  Maybe the breeder means that she
    will list the names of the cat's but not their registration numbers?
    Or maybe that is her way of describing an unofficial pedigree? 
    Maybe she means it is only three generations?  
    
    Jo

    I got a copy of a "sketch" pedigree from a breeder. It lists all the
    names, but your' right -- there are no registration numbers.
    

    A lot of breeders guard their cat's reg. numbers with their lives.
    Some breeders won't give you the official pedigree until the cat
    is paid in full and residing at your house.  If the cat is a pet,
    some breeders may never give the reg. numbers on the pedigree, just
    the names.
    
    Sounds like in your case, the sketch pedigree was just to show you
    who was in the pedigree, and how the breeding was done.
    
    So, did you find yourself a kitten?
    
    Jo

    re: vet checks
    
    It sounds as if you call it as it comes.  Which makes sense to me.
    
    I'd like to make the statement, that responsible breeders in this 
    file appear more responsible than I imagined a breeder in general
    would be.  Is this because we have the opportunity to use Notes
    as a communication resource?
    
    Hmmmmm, maybe we could start a separate topic....responsibilities
    of breeders????  
    
    M	
    
    

    Yes, that's what usually would go with a pet kitten that is to
    be spayed or neutered.  I don't give any papers to pet buyers
    until they send me a certificate from their vet of spay or neuter.
    Then I send them their papers.
    
    

    I give my pet buyers a full pedigree.  First, I only do one pedigree
    for each litter, then make copies of it (I am not big on typing).
    I wouldn't want to have to type up two different pedigrees, one
    for show kittens and one for pet kittens.  And secondly, I do it
    cause if a person is paying that much money for a purebred cat,
    I think that they should get some kind of assurance that the parents
    were registered.  I withhold the blue slips on the pet kittens until
    the spay/neuter is complete and I receive notification from the
    buyer's vet.
          
    Jo

Yes, indeed -- I've found a kitten! I just wish I could pronounce 
her parents names! She's from the Kothai Cattery in Nashville, TN
(the cat will say "meow y'all"). I got a lot of pictures and she's
got the heart-shaped face and head, and she is adorable! B(But all
babies are, aren't they?)

Now, here's some more questions!:

I notice that all the names of these cats are "thai" (of course,
since it's a thai cat!). Anyhow, how do I go about naming this
kitten? (I probably should ask the breeder, huh?) Anyhow, doesn't
it have to do with the cats parents names, or the cattery? Or both?
The sire's name is "Ch Saang Jahn's Ngoen Mee of Kothai" and the
dam's name is "Ch Kon-Lek-Lek Ohyeshiis of Kothai". So how do you
name her?

Also, we've decided we'd like to breed her. What is the process
for obtaining a suitable "stud" (sounds like a pre-arranged marriage!)
From the problems I've had finding a Korat to begin with, finding a
stud sounds like it would even be more difficult! And how are the
fees for "stud service" determined? Can you negotiate that price?

And I need to register this kitten with the CFA. Should I call them
and ask for information? Can I belong to more than one (such as TICA)_?
How do I find out about upcoming cat shows, besides Cat Fancy and Cats
magazines?

These, and many more questions to come, will need to be answered! And
I thank EVERYONE for your knowledge and support!

Cheryl
Shanti, Charlie and "New Baby!"

    Cheryl,
    
    In regards to breeding your kitten when she is old enough, you should
    work directly with her breeder on that subject.  Did you purchase her
    as a breeder/show, or will your contract specify that she be spayed? 
    Murdock, my Birman, is a show cat but the agreement with his breeder
    was that he be altered.  If I were to purchase a cat for breeding I
    would work directly with that breeder in selecting the a suitable mate
    from compatible bloodlines.  Since you are still a novice, make this
    breeder your mentor... work with her, learn from her, etc.
    
    Breeding cats is a very serious endeavor.  It is very important to work
    with someone knowledgable not only about your chosen breed, but also
    about the birthing process and what it entails.  A lot could go wrong,
    so it is important to do your homework beforehand.
    
    Just some insight (from an equally novice person!!).
    
    Good luck with your new kitten.  She sounds lovely.
    
    --Roberta
    

    Your kitten will come with a blue slip for registering her in CFA.
    The first word of her name will be the breeder's cattery name, which
    I guess is Kothai.  So you can name her Kothai's ___________.  If
    you register a cattery name now, you can then add it to her name.
    Then she would be Kothai's _____________ of ________. :^)
    
    You can register her in any association that you wish.  In CFA,
    you do not become a member of CFA unless you join a club.  In TICA,
    I think that you have to purchase a membership in order to have
    voting privledges in TICA.  If the parent's of your kitten are already
    registered in CFA and TICA, then it is easy for you to register
    her. If they are not, you can still register her, but it just takes
    a little bit more effort and paperwork.
    
    The best place to find out about CFA shows is in the CFA Alamanac.
    
    Jo

    About stud fees.  The cost of the stud fee will depend on several
    things...1) the breeder who owns the stud  2) the quality of the
    stud   3) the quality of other kittens produced by the stud   4)
    the area that the stud and owner live (economy has a lot to do with
    it too).
    
    Stud fees in Birmans run from $300 - $650.
    
    Jo 

    Re: Sketch pedigree
    
       I just aquired a pedigree for my kitten and the only reg. #'s he had
      was for that of his parents. Would I want to know of the rest in a
      case of the pedigree changing ie, ch vs gr vs no title ???
    
    George 

    If you did not buy a breeding cat, then I can't think of any reason
    why you would *need* the registration numbers.  You might talk with
    the breeder about it.  Once you have the pedigree in hand, you can
    ammend it with new titles at your option.  
    
    Jo

Well, my new kitty will be arriving at the airport on Friday afternoon! 
My husband and I talked with the breeder last night, and everything is
set. The airfare did not go up all that dramatically -- $67.50 from 
Nashville to Baltimore. Now I can't WAIT till Friday!

She also discussed with us finding a suitable "stud" when we decide
to breed, as well as naming. Boy, have I learned alot in the past
2 weeks!

Now it's off thinking of little girls names!

Cheryl, Charlie and Shanti (and baby to be here Friday!)

    Hi Cheryl,
    
    I'm THRILLED that you found a Korat Kitten.  Very sorry that I couldn't
    help you.  PITA wasn't cooperating and when she finally cooperated, she
    ended up loosing her litter very early.  We're going to try to breed
    her again, but if something happens again, she'll be spayed.
    
    As for the STUD service, there are more in your area than there are in
    mine.  Some are in Pennsylvania, some in Georgia.  
    
    I am quite sorry that I didn't get back to you.  I work for a finance
    organization as a secretary and they've been running me ragged lately. 
    Especially considering that I'll be leaving them this friday for a new
    job in Corporate relocation.  
    
    Hope you have fun with you baby.  One thing I will tell you about your
    Korat.  Hide EVERYTHING that you don't want her to have!  Even if it's
    in a container that you don't think she can get open!  She'll open it! 
    My babies have been known to open the lids on tupperware bowls!! 
    They're QUITE smart!!
    
    Also, if there's something you don't want her to do, teach her now. 
    You'll never teach her when she's older.
    
    Take care and have fun!
    
    Holly
    

Well, tomorrow's the big day -- I pick my cat up at the
airport. So, once again, I have a question...

I'm going to be picking the cat up at air cargo. How do they
ship the cat? Where do they put it? Will the cat be a 
"spaz case" when I get her? Will it take long for her to
come off the plane (transfer from plane to air cargo)?
I'm SO nervous! And excited! The plane comes into
Baltimore at 4:35, so should I be at air cargo by that
time -- the breeder said it could take as long as 1/2
to an hour before the cat gets there! I'm sure this
question is easy for those of you who send your cats off
to be bred, selling, etc. So you know what goes on.
(By the way, she's flying on American).

Thanks again! 
Cheryl, Shanti, Charlie & new kitty!

    Charyl, 
    
    Well, it is the next day already, so you may have already found
    out that it can take up to two hours for the crew to unload a cat
    that is shipped air cargo!  I wasn't in yesterday, or I would have
    warned you to pack a picnic lunch and a book for you, and a litterbox
    and a bowl of water for the kitty.  :^)
    
    Be sure and fill us in on all the details when you get a chance!
    
    Jo

    Well, right now I've got my new kitty sitting under my neck, watching
    me type this! She is BEAUTIFUL! And cute! And VERY mischivious!
    
    It only took 1/2 hour for the crew to unload my kitty! Boy, was I ever
    happy! I did get there early == only 45 minutes early, but it was worth
    the wait. The breeder had made her a bed and some toys, and left it in
    the carrier that she shipped her in. Her eyes were all wild looking,
    and she was crying! So, when I got in the car, I talked to her for
    about 5 minutes, and she stopped crying. When I got home and took her
    out, she shook. Matter of fact, she stopped shaking Saturday afternoon,
    and started getting wild -- climbing behind the computer desk, on top
    of the terminal --- in between the paper on the printer -- just to name
    a few of the odd places she hung out. 
    
    All in all, she's adapting very well! And my 2 other cats, are still a
    little uncertain. Charlie can sniff her without hissing now, but the
    kitten ignores him. Shanti, on the other hand, wants nothing to do with
    her, and has been a real b**** today -- hissing at me, at Charlie, at
    the kitten, at the door, at the carpet, etc.
    
    Now all I have to do is think up a name....
    
    I'm sure you can tell that I'm very excited about my new kitty, who
    loves to play, and even sleeps with me!
    
    As soon as I name her, I'll let you know!
    
    Cheryl, Charlie, Shanti & new baby
    

Well, I didn't want to say any more about my new "addition" till
we named her. I named my Korat Gracie -- her "official" name
is Kothai's Grace. She is really a sweetheart, and I love her
to death! She really makes my day when I get home -- she is
just SO happy to see me -- my other two are like "Glad you're
home. Feed us!" where Gracie is like "I'm SO happy you're home!
Let me snuggle you!". So we feed the "starving" and cuddle with
the loving!

Cheryl, Charlie, Shanti & Gracie

I need a little assistance filling in my CFA entry form! Two
(really 3) things I'm not too sure of: 1) Color class number 
(she's a Korat) 2) class (I'm assuming Championship/open and
3) Region of residence (I live in Maryland).

If anyone who knows/has the CFA rules, could you possibly
answer those 3 questions?

This will be Gracie's first show and she'll be 8 months old.
I assume she will be considered a "cat" then, and not a
kitten, am I correct?

Cheryl, Charlie, Shanti & Gracie

    Hmm, Cheryl.  Let me see if I can help.  I think that Gracie would
    compete as an adult (championship/open) now that she is eight months
    old.  Color class number is the first 4 digits of her registration
    number followed by a letter (for Murdock, my premier, he is 0182P). 
    I'm not sure what you would write in -- C maybe?  (read that:  help,
    Jo!!).
    
    I think that Maryland is in Region 7.
    
    
    --Roberta
    

    You should look up the color class number in the show rules.  I am not
    sure, but I think that there may be cases where the color class number
    is not the same as the first four digits.  Hate to tell you it was and
    then find out is wasn't.
    
    The CFA central office could help you with the region number.
    
    If your cat is 8 months or older on the opening day of the show, and
    not spayed, then she would be entered in the championship class as an
    open.  If she was spayed, she would be entered as an open in the
    premiership class.
    
    I never put a P or C after my color class number.  But I do put a K
    when I am entering a kitten.  Never thought of adding the P or C.
    
    Jo