Conference misery::feline_v1

    I have been worried about this for quite a while.  I can't do much
    if they are running all around the house so here is what I did.
    I built a cat pen with top onto the back of my house.  There is
    a cat door from the basement to the cat pen.  So when Im gone
    I lock the cats in the basement/pen.  If a fire starts smoke rises
    so the basement seems like a good place.  If they need to leave
    they can go to the pen.  When I am at home they usually hang around
    me and I have tried picking all 5 up at once with success.  This
    is about the best I could think of.
    
    Elaine
    

    re -1
    Elaine,
    does your cat pen lead to the backyard? what sort of opening
    do you have? a pet door?
    I wish I could pick up all my cats at one time but two of
    them are 15 pounders, two others don't like to be within
    ten feet of the other and the other is squirmy. :-(((
    
    Fran
    

    Well, I'm a breeder, so I have a cattery.  The cattery is in my
    basement, which would probably be the safest place, should we be
    unfortunate enough to have a fire.  All of the cats and kittens
    are confined in the cattery during the day.  I have 10 cats, and
    right now, 3 kittens.  The number of kittens varies depending on
    the time of the year.  Inside the cattery, the two "whole" males
    are confined in walk-in stud pens.  Because they are all in the
    basement, I am afraid that the Fire Dept may not know their there.
    
    So, about once a year or so, I contact the Fire Dept, and ask them
    to come on a "tour".  I figure that this is so bizzaire, that they
    must go back and talk about it....maybe they'll remember, should
    something happen.  I give them a tour of the house and cattery letting
    them know where cats might be should something happen.  (I occasionally
    will have a new or sick isolated upstairs.)  At the door to the
    cattery, I have all the cat carriers stacked up.  Unfortunately,
    I don't have enough plastic carriers for all the cats, so I also
    have a supply of Cardboard Carriers there with the plastic ones.
    
    
    Should something happen, I would hope that the that Fire People
    are going to think quick enough to put the cats in carriers to get
    them out, rather than just throwing them out windows or doors. 
    We live on a rather busy street.  Even if they had to stuff 3 or
    4 cats to a carrier, it wouldn't matter, as long as they were able
    to get them out.  
    
    The cattery is a small portion of the basement, totally enclosed
    and airtight.  My husband made it as airtight as possible, since
    he's allergic to cats.  There is also a basement bulked which means
    they could get the cats out of the house without having to bring
    them through the upstairs.
    
    
    Fire scares the death out of me.  I have been meaning to get one
    of those tot finder stickers for their window, and a sticker for
    the door telling them where to find the cats.  Maybe I'll stop at
    the FD on the way home.
    
    cin
    

     Fire is one of those things that will cause panic in anyone's mind,
    but especially those with pets.  I have "discussed" this with all
    my kitties. In fact, we've gone through fire drills and evacuation
    procedures in practice. We live close to the wonderful Seabrook 
    plant, so even that could cause a reason to quickly evacuate the
    premises, therefore the resulting practice. I have enough carriers
    for each cat. I have the cardboard type all ready to go in the attic,
    right at the top of the stairs. That way I don't have to spend great
    amounts of money on the real ones.  The kitties have been told to go the
    far end of the house, since I imagine if there were a fire it would
    come from the main part of the house which would contain such things
    as the kitchen, basement (which has gas heater, oil-burner, oil tank,
    and stored paint cans,etc), and the fireplace.  So, if they herd
    themselves into the bedrooms which are an ell off the main house,
    I should be able to gather them, and thusly escape.  However, if
    you practice this, you'll be surprised how long it takes. The first
    time, with 6 cats, it took 45 minutes!  That wouldn't work in real
    life, but with practice and pretending I was so very calm, I could
    do it within 5 minutes. And I'm still working on that time. I have
    4 cats as of this moment.  I found if I paniced and screamed and
    acted like there was a real problem, everyone was under the bed
    where I could not reach them any too readily.  That's why the calm
    part worked best. How accurate that would be if the house were in 
    flames, or the waves of radiation were coming towards Haverhill, I
    don't know, but we're doing our best. 
                                                    Denise
    

    All I have to do is think about getting a carrier out, and S&H
    decide it's vet time! behind the fridge! under the curtains! on
    the ceiling!  I don't know how we'd manage in an emergency.....
    

    I worry about this one too.  I have most of my cat carriers in the
    closet in Kalliste's stud room.  In the event of a fire, I would
    have to gather up cats from every room in the house.
    
    Just when I have enough carriers for every cat, I either sell a
    kitten (with carrier) or buy a kitten.  The numbers are up and down.
    I currently have about 5 huge Vari Kennels and Kennel Cabs that
    can easily hold two or three cats, but getting them in the carriers
    and out of the house in an emergency is another story.
    
    I did manage to get them all into carriers and out of the house
    in about ten minutes the day that Kim and I bombed the house for
    fleas.  I did have to borrow one carrier from Kim though.
    
    The good news is that we keep our smoke alarm filled with new
    batteries, and there is a fire hydrant right in front of our house
    (helps with the cost of our fire insurance too).
    
    Lets pray that none of us ever has find out if our plan works!
    
    Jo

    Re: .6
    
    A couple of the local shelters have cardboard carriers. I would guess
    cardboard carriers are not expensive and it might be worthwhile
    stocking up on a few.
    

    re: .6
    
    I live less than 1/4 mile from the fire station, and have a hydrant
    right across the street.  
    
    The thing I worry about most is not being home.
    
    cin
    

    
    I think the scariest thing about a fire in the house is not being home
    to get the furry kids out in time.  The fire department in our town has
    stickers that you put on the doors stating how many pets are in the 
    house and what they are.  (Dogs or cats usually)
    
    I know that panther would come to me, I doubt that she would go to any
    one else except mabye Jerry.  Spot would hid behind the sofa and it
    would be a problem to get her out in an emergency.  Maybe the old open
    a can of tuna might work, but in a fire, I wouldn't trust it.
    
    I think I'll replace the batteries in the smoke alarm when I get home.
    
    Feline worried,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
    

    
    Making sure that your smoke detectors are in working order is a very
    good idea -- most will warn you by beeping intermittently when the
    battery is low.  My grup's product manager had a major fire at her
    house last week; I can't imagine that they had working detectors, since
    her 2 teenage kids were downstairs, and her brother was asleep upstairs
    at the time (the fire started in another bedroom).  They noticed the
    flames' reflection from the backyard!  No one was hurt, but a lot of
    damage was done...
    
    Beverly
    

    In answere to reply 3 (? I think thats the right one) I have a pet
    ramp in my basement that goes to a pet door which goes to an outdoor
    pet cage.  I am hoping that if I fire starts they will either be
    in the pet cage or be smart enough to move to the pet cage.
    Since they are locked in the basement/petcage when Im not there
    they cant run around upstairs so I think thats about the best I
    can do.  I like the pet sticker idea.  
    
    FYI:  Heres how Ive been able to carry all five at once.  I put
    one over each shoulder and the other 3 I bundle in my arms.
    They dont like it but they will tolerate it long enough to get
    to the other side of the house.
    
    Elaine

    RE-1
    
    I tried picking them all up last night...almost did it..but..
    once Misha realized she wasn't the only one that was getting
    a "cuddle" she climbed up higher sat backwards on my head so
    that I couldn't see well with her tail swishing in front of
    my face :-)))..then Mo seemed to think that where Misha 
    was was a better place to be.so he tried for it too...
    I think we need practice... :-))))
    
    fran
    

    Instead of trying to lug a number of bulky cat carriers, why not
    try a pillow case instead.  If you put them in a pillow case they
    can still breath.  
    
    Seeing how fast fires spread I would doubt that you would have much
    time to gather up a lot of kitties.  Smoke and heat can build up
    pretty fast, which doesn't give you alot of time.  Your best bet
    would be to grab as many as you can and hope the rest either get out on
    there own or the firefighters find them.  Any more than 3 cats might
    be tough to handle.   Mind you, I'm talking about fires in older
    houses and usually ones that start at night.  I'm married to a
    firefighter and have gone to a number of house fires were in the
    first 10 minutes from the time the fire dept is called the house is 
    pretty well filled with smoke and there is usually a pretty good
    fire going.
    
    Putting the stickers on your doors are a must.  The fireman will
    try to save them. 
    
    I don't mean to scare you, I just want to let you know that all
    might not go as planned.  You may have to let your cats out of the
    house and try to gather them up afterwards.   
    
    I'm sure if there is ever a fire in my house, my husband will make
    me leave the house before I have the chance to try and find the
    cats.  He'll tell me to let the firemen find them.  That's what
    I get for marrying a non-cat person and a fireman.  
    
    The basement is probably the best place for the cats. 
    After all, smoke rises.  It would take some time for the smoke to
    reach the floor, unless the basement is sealed pretty good.
    
    I just don't want to see any of fellow feliners getting hurt when
    a kittie might be saved by a fireman or find it's way out on it's
    own.
    
    Sorry to be so depressing,
    Kathy

    Three weeks ago a mobile home in our village went to the ground, three
    children and the parents got out OK and it was all over in about 20
    minutes. About an hour afterwards, their small kitten walked out of
    the wreakage none the worse for wear but wet.
    

    I hate to say it, but if I was in the house when a fire broke, I
    would head for the cellar, and get my cats out, closing the doors
    behind me.  I'ld then go into the cattery, and as calmly as possible,
    shutting the door behind me, and get the cats into the carriers.
    Then I'ld carry two carriers with me to the bulked, and open it
    and put them out, walk back to the cattery and do the same again.
    I've tried it, several times, and I know I can get all the cats
    out within 3 to 5 minutes.  Since all my cats are confined in the
    cattery, and there's no place to hide, it can be done very quickly.
    I have already decided in my mind, which cats I'ld get out first,
    so I have no decisions to make at the time.
    
    If any of you think your going to be able to pick up the cats and
    run very fast in the event of a fire, think again.  The sound of
    those smoke detectors scare the heebee jeebers off the cats, and
    they can't be found...at least that's what happens when I set off
    my smoke alarm.  Within a second there's not a cat to be seen. 
                                               
    I don't even like to think about fire its so scary, but I'ld rather
    have a plan, than to be in panic mode at a time when it will be
    important to stay calm.  
    
    BTW, I have discussed my evacuation plan with the firemen also,
    and they felt that the best thing was to get right out, forget about
    the cats and wait for them to come to save them.  But, if I was
    really going to try anyway, this would be the best technique.  
    Both the cats and I will be safer in the basement than anyplace
    else in the house during the fire, and there is an exit.  They
    suggested the technique for gathering the cats first, etc.  It's
    the most restrictive for airflow which should keep the fire more
    at bay.
    
    BTW, I like the idea of the pillow cases.  I think it will be faster
    than setting up the cardboard carriers, and probably safer, as some
    of my cats will chew their way out of the cardboard things.  Thanks
    for the idea.
    
    cin
    

    In reference to cats scattering when smoke alarms go off.  Mine
    go off every time I cook something that makes smoke.  So they
    always come to get me to remind me to shut it off.  I hope this
    will work to my advantage.  If youre woried you may want to try
    triggering the alarm and see how they react.
    
    Elaine

    I trigger my alarm before I try my evacuation plan.
    
    

    Cin,
    
    That sounds like a very good plan.  Here in California we dont'
    have basements (odd, isn't it?) so my cattery is part of my house.
    Our house is not set up well for a quick evacuation.  It has long
    hallways and no exit close to the street.  The front door is on
    the side of the house.
    
    I hesitate to call the fire dept to ask for suggestions since I
    have more cats than the city allows within its limits.  How did
    you get around this?  Do they care?  Do you have a kennel license?
    
    Jo

    
    Ours go off when I cook and also when we open the door after the
    showers been run.  The cats lift their heads, look and go back to
    sleep.
    
    I keep hoping that what I have heard in the past is basically true.
    Cats know danger (ie fire, smoke) and go away from it.  My hope is
    that if this is true, in going away from it, the only place to go
    will be out an open door (such as one we left through).
    

    re: 18
    
    Jo,
    
    I don't think that my city has any laws around the number of pets,
    but I don't know for sure.  Of course, I only have 9 cats.  I have
    had up to 7 cats in an apartment with the landlords knowledge, so
    I have never really thought about having to be careful.  In fact,
    the two closest neighbors to us know about the cats, and have come
    over to see them.  I wanted the neighbors to know about the cats,
    since I'm not home most of the day, and they are.  I figured if
    something happened when I wasn't home, at least the neighbors would
    know the "kids" were there, and where they are.  
    
    cin
    

    If anyone is interested I have some of the window stickers available.
    Please contact me for mor more info.
    
    MaryAnne

    Cin,
    
    I have 11 cats (3 hhp's and 8 Birmans), but then there are the kittens
    too.  Our city has a limit of 2.  I live within the city limits.
    My neighbors on both sides know about the cats, but the neighbor
    two doors down is the real cat lover.  If I wasn't home, she would
    probably try to get them out herself.  When we first moved in, I
    told my neighbor whose house faces mine, that if she ever sees one
    of my cats outside, please let me know.  That has happened once
    and boy am I glad I had told her in advance.
    
    I am afraid that someone in the fire dept (maybe someone who doesn't
    like cats) would turn me in to the city if they knew about the cats.
    
    Jo

    Wow, you are only suppose to have 2 cats!!!!!  It sounds like some
    kind of comunist plot!!!  ;-)  
    
    I think having the neighbors know about them, is probably one of
    the best things you can do. 
    
    Wouldn't just two cats be boring!!!!!  
    
    cin...who can't remember back to when there were only two fuzzfaces
    around!
    
    

	Hey, I can see that more than 2 could be fun, and I think that 
	city ordinance sounds like a bit much, but, as the owner of 2
	charming little kitties, I can assure you...

		It's NOT BORING!!!!

	Beverly  :-)

    The funny thing about it is that this is a rural town!  I might
    be able to understand a 2 cat limit in San Jose, but Morgan Hill??!
    
    I can't remember what it is like having only two, but I imagine
    it would be a lot less work!
    
    Jo

    I don't know about it being less work.  Bailey and Amelia seemed
    to keep me pretty busy and now that the holy terror (Carrie) is
    living with us there is never a dull moment.  Between hissing and
    spatting and taking over places she shouldn't Carrie can be found
    unrolling the paper towel roll or scratching on every closed door
    to be let in.
    
    Jan

    How do people with > 2 cats handle simultaneous demands for petting?
    Having 2 1/2 cats at the moment and only 2 hands, I would like to know.  

    Well, I'll tell ya, two cats was perfect.  As far as petting them all,
    Julie has a self-petting mechanism.  I just hold my hand out and she
    runs back and forth underneath it.  Both Honey and Chauncey require
    old-fashioned petting and chin scratching.
    
    Thank heaven for little girls...
    
    Mary

    It is true that in case of a fire cats run to the farthest point.
    
    A few months ago I was burning incense and it fell into a dried
    flower arrangement and started a fire.  We were in the room at the
    time and we saw Nicholas running to the bedroom (2 room away) and climb
    onto the bureau.  Then I heard crackling like a fire and sure enough
    the flames were to the ceiling.
    
    LUCKILY !!! we caught it in time.
    
    No more incense, candles, or anything like that for me.
    
    Deb
    

    In our house, I go around every morning and give each cat their
    hugs and kisses, and then do it again in the evening when I get
    home.  During the evening, while we are TV watching, they take 
    turns climbing on our laps looking for attention.  Some are more
    demanding about their need for attention than others.  And, like
    usual, the squeeky wheel gets the grease, but we do try to lavish
    extra attention on those who are kind enough to understand, and
    be less vocal about their needs.
    
    Jo

re: -1

Well, I don't know about 20, but I do know with 4 cats, everyone sorta
sets up their own time with each of us - so they all get their share
of "quality", focused attention from each of us..somehow it works out,
doesn't it?

re: fire.  Jo, I'm sure you're right about the Morgan Hill fire dept...
they'd turn you in for sure.  In the case of more than legal numbers
of cats, I think we just have to depend on our neighbors to call and
let us know if they see signs of fire...sigh, I work all day too, and
I worry about this ALL the time...our neighbors on two sides have my
roomy's number (I'm a specialist and move around too much - besides
which, Marge is likely to be closer than my normal business locales).

    re: petting
    
    Yes, but all three plop down on the rug at once, roll on their
    backs, and say "Mummy, pet me now!"
    

>    re: petting
    
>    Yes, but all three plop down on the rug at once, roll on their
>    backs, and say "Mummy, pet me now!"
    
Karen,

that's why God created bare toes!  two hands, one foot....works every time.
Until the forth guy rolls in looking for some tickles...I'm simply not
THAT coordinated!  8^}

    
    
    For not too much money, you can put together a system which 
    links smoke detectors with an auto-dialer that will call the 
    fire department. You can have a recorded message that will 
    mention the cats.  Many home-owner's policies will give a 
    5% discount for having this kind of system. Over time, that
    will partially offset the cost, not to mention the peace of 
    mind. Perhaps not much help in a trailer, but many house 
    fires smoulder for a while before they really get going. 
    
              
    
    

    re-1
    
    autodialer: that's a terrific idea!! is it very costly??
    
    Fran
    
    

    re: Fire alarm.  I called Atlas Security in Weymouth this morning
    (we're in Braintree so Weymouth is convenient for us).  The salesman
    told me that to put in smoke detectors- one basement, one first
    floor and one second floor, plus the control panel, autodialer and
    phone jack would cost around $1200.  (We have an old colonial) 
    He also said that for $2000 you could have burglar protection also
    and that you could start with just the fire alarm and add the 
    security system in later.
    
    I am sure that you can also get this sort of stuff from a place
    like Radio Shack.  I remember talking to them a few years ago about
    a burglar alarm that had an autodialer for a craft's coop I was
    part of.   So you could probably buy the unit and install it
    yourself and save some money.  I'll let you know more info as I
    find it.  
    
    It would probably be helpful for folks from different areas to get
    estimates and put them in here.  Gee if enough people were interested
    we could get together and try to get a "deal" from one of these
    places.  "We're going to buy 10 fire alarm systems.  What's the
    *BEST* price you can give us?"  Bet we could really save some money.
      Nancy DC
    

    And BOY wouldn't some salesman be happy to get that commission!
    

    Is that $2000 for the combination of the two alarms, or is it $2000
    over the cost of the fire alarm set up?

    Deb

    WOW! $1200 - $2000  EEEEEEEEKKK YYYIIIKKES!
    
    well, I know we are going to have to install some sort of system
    but WHEW! MEOW OUCH
    
    
    :-)))
    
    FRAN
    

    re: .38 - That's for the combination.  And that's for installation
    too.  I know that both Sears and Radio Shack offer the kits for
    "do it yourself" installation.  I would guess the price would be
    about half.  We're not sure we want to put that much money into
    a house we may not stay in for much longer (Braintree to Maynard
    or Marlboro is one heck of a commute) so we're going to look at
    other alternatives as well
      Now if we were to get together and commit to purchasing a quantity
    of these - say 10 - I'd bet we could get 10-20% off the price. 
    That's how these folks work.  If not, well them we go back to the
    do it yourself type. 
      I'm perfectly happy to spend $600 to protect my guys and my property.
    Don't forget that this type of system is also worth some money off
    of your insurance AND its deductible from the Capital gains when
    you sell your house.  I'm guessing $600 is what it would cost to
    purchase the kit and install it yourself.
      Let me know if there's any interest in pursueing this further.
      Nancy

    I checked with two companies a year ago, when I moved into my
    new condo (it's a townhouse, with 2 levels plus basement...so
    I always worry about what if the dryer overheats, etc.).
    
    I would be interested in finding out what a group rate might
    cost.  
    
    I also would like a burglar alarm, but some of the better ones
    are NOT suitable for homes with pets.  The condo I rented before
    moving had this wonderful motion detector you could set when
    you left home, and it was hardwired to the police dept, not just
    a central security company.  MOTION DETECTOR?  "Okay, cats, I'm
    off to work for the day...don't move!"  ;-)  I also realized that
    the system wouldn't protect me at night, asleep...if either a
    burglar or I walked in the hallway, hello police!  So I never did
    use it.  (Got a reduction on my insurance because it was "installed",
    the insurance agent didn't ask if I used it...)
    
    I guess the most appropriate kind would cover breakage and/or forced
    entry through windows and doors???
    
    	Pennie
    

    I didn't check into security systems as my primary concern is fire.
    I think it was Mary Tamir who today suggested I talk to my local
    fire department.  She said that many of them are refusing to allow
    autodialers to call them.  Too many false alarms.  So some of us
    may end up paying a monthly charge to an agency.  The alarm would
    alert the agency and they'd alert the fire department I guess. 
    I'm going to look into it more fully.
    
    As far as a group rate goes, I would need folks who were interested
    in making a serious committment and could tell me the limit of
    what they are willing to spend for the system with/without the
    installation.  I'd also need some details about the layout of the
    house.  This isn't the sort of thing you bring to the salesrep
    until you are serious about buying.  Its alot of work for the
    rep, plus it would cause problems if folks backed out because they
    weren't ready to go for this.  It would effect everyone as the price
    would be based on quantity.
    
    I think that the 10-20% discount is realistic and if we don't get
    the discount we feel we deserve, then we just don't buy from that
    company.
      Let me know.
    

    Re .41
    
    Sorry to be slightly off-subject, but it is possible the use
    motion-detector burglar alarms with cats in the house. We have one
    with an adjustable sensitivity, and it was just a matter of getting
    the setting right so that it would pick up a human but not two cats.
    It works well.
    
    We have a fire alarm as part of the system, but our cats are never
    shut in when we are not home (cultural differences - indoor-only
    really doesn't exists in lightly-populated, relativeley disease-free
    New Zealand).
    
    Shayne

    Sort of as a madcap idea I would wonder how much it would cost to
    have a sprinkler system installed.  I know it wouldn't work in my
    house if I had an electrical fire that killed my power but they
    install them in commercial buildings why not in your home?
    
    Wouldn't we all love to have holes knocked in our ceilings?  Might
    be a consideration if you are building a home.
    
    Nancy you might want to put this suggestion for the autodialer in
    canine as well.  Since I have a kennel and all but three of my dogs
    are outside during the day I would think it a good idea for my
    situation since someday I hope to be a new cat owner.  However I
    have considered building an outside cattery to allow safety to my
    animals.  I have seen some really nice ones lately and with only
    minimal electrical going to them there wouldn't be much danger of
    a fire in the cattery.  
    
    I think the idea of the pillow case is the best I've heard since
    I would think that in a case of fire, smoke and alarm noise most
    cats would be so panicked that they would scratch you to pieces.
    Lets hope none of us ever finds out.  
    
    Nancy (who loves all four legged creatures)

    
    		Well, I had a fire in my living room this weekend,
    	so I now know what will happen with my 3 cats and dog in
    	this situation...There was an explosion, which frightened the
    	cats, who came upsatirs to me. Then the smoke came, the 
    	alarm went off, the cats disappeared completely. The only one
    	I would have been able to find was Rosie, she was in my room.
    	Missy and Squeek didn't reappear until 30 min after the fire-
    	fighters left. The dog greeted people at the door...Fortunately,
    	we got the fire out with minimal damage, so I didn't have to
    	go looking for them. The worst thing was, I had only been home
    	for about ten minutes - I kept thinking, what if I'd been a
    	little bit later or slower coming home...???
    
    	Sherry
    

    Oh my!  Glad to hear that everyone is okay (yourself included) now.
    How did it happen?
    
    Jo

    
    	The only thing I can think of is the air pump on my aquarium
    	took a power surge or something, the plug is completely melted
    	off of it. Other than that, I really don't know (but it was
    	definitely electrical...). 
    
    	Sherry
    

    Seems that most fires these days are electrical.  There was
    one at the school down the street from us.  Electrical in origin.
      I'm still thinking about that fire alarm.