Conference misery::feline_v1

       We have hawks out back of us, too.  We have a lot of field and woods
    there and see them soaring a lot.  They also rest in the trees and 
    even have attacked and captured birds at my feeder!!!!!!!!!
       I am always reminding my gang to watch out for the hawks.  They
    don't go out unless I'm there with them, but you still never know. I
    don't know how afraid the hawks are of people as I see them diving the
    field for prey when I'm around too......I am just going on the
    assumption that a cat is quite large, and with all the many choices of
    smaller prey like moles, mice, etc. which are extremely abundant, that
    the hawks will choose the smaller prey.  I've never heard of any
    urban/suburban hawks capturing cats, has anyone?
    
                                   Denise

hawks will take a cat, and once they find out how easy it is, they will even
begin to hunt specifically for cats.  You are right to be concerned...
unfortunately, there isn't a deterrant for a large predator bird - they aren't
scared off by scarecrows or anything.  Doubly unfortunate, they tend to
select a nesting site and return to it every year - so the problem won't
go away.  Is it possible for you to build a COVERED (by strong chicken wire
or equivalent) run area for your cats - something that will allow them access
to the outside, but restrict them to an area where they can be protected from
the bird?  If not, then you have a real issue - the main problem being the
level of injury that your cat will sustain if the bird strikes, EVEN IF the
bird doesn't carry the cat away to the nest....this is a potentially lethal
situation for your cats.  If you are in the USA, you are also dealing with
a protected species (virtually all predator hawks and eagles are protected
by FEDERAL law) and you cannot mess with the nesting area or attempt to drive
the bird off.  You can also expect to see another bird - the nesting mate
arrive in the area soon - so your problem doubles.

Until nesting time - spring - your cats MAY be somewhat protected...it is
simply easier to get smaller prey.  However, once there are young to feed,
the birds will take anything they can get and larger prey means they have
to make fewer trips to feed the young.  Then your cats are very threatened.
Please be very careful.

    Try asking this question in the WILD_BIRDS conference...
    

      It depends a whole lot on the type of hawk. I would assume without
    actually knowing, that a hawk that is taking birds from a feeding area
    is most likely a "Red-Tailed" hawk, and they are not likely to bother a
    full grown cat. They feed mostly on birds, which they can catch in the
    air. 
    
      Now OWLS, on the other hand, are a different story. Great Horned and
    Snowy Owls are KNOWN cat killers...so be careful with cats being
    outside at night...
    
     JM

    I agree with JM is they are owls NOTHING is safe. If they have
    taken birds away from your feeder I would tend to think more
    that it was a sparrow hawk. Those buggers will NOT leave a feeder
    alone once they find it.
    
    Suggest you find out what kind you are dealing with an see what
    can be done. 
    
    Keep us posted.
    
    Barbara

    That's one of the reasons my cats are indoor kitties.  My husband
    actually saw an owl pick off a rabbit the same size as several of our
    cats.  I wouldn't trust a hawk either.  One day we were walking our
    Afghan Hound and he lifted his leg on a thin bush that was leaning on a
    chicken wire fence.  A hawk swooped down and grabbed his foot thru the
    fence!  Thanks to the fence and his long fur, no physical damage was
    done, however birds made him nervous after that incident....  If a hawk
    would try for a big foot like his was, why not a cat?
    
    Diane

    How do you know if there are Hawks in your area?  I hear this strange
    noise at night, but never during the day; doesn't sound like owls
    either.  Could be bats?  (Or am I bats?  ;') ).  Are Hawks day or night 
    creatures?
    
    Rici comes in at night anyway.  Our vet advised against leaving cats
    out at night due to predators like foxes...

>    How do you know if there are Hawks in your area?  I hear this strange
>    noise at night, but never during the day; doesn't sound like owls
>    either.  Could be bats?  (Or am I bats?  ;') ).  Are Hawks day or night 
>    creatures?
    
Hawks are "sight hunters" and they hunt during the day.  If you are hearing
activity only after dark, you may be dealing with owls, bats, or four-legged
predators, depending on the sounds you hear.  Bats are your friends - they
are a valuable insect control and should be encouraged..and protected from
your cat(s).  Owls and hawks are both valuable in vermin/garden pest 
control....however, they do not always distinguish between rabbits and cats.
Any hawk that can take a rabbit can, and WILL, take a cat.  

I worked with a Raptor rescue group in New Mexico and learned a great deal
about these "predator" birds.  They are magnificent animals and are really
strong...that's the reason it is best to be careful unless you KNOW the hawk
you have is strictly a bird catcher.

    
      Thanks for all of the quick reply's.  I thought I was being paranoid 
    and overprotective, at least I know now I really do have something to
    worry about.
    
      I can't tell what kind of hawk it is.  It definitely has a red tail
    as well as the back of it's wings.  The underside is a light tan/cream
    color.  I can usually tell when it's around because I can hear the
    crows.  It's almost as if they are ganging up on it, appearing to 
    harrass it.
    
      It's interesting that a couple of prior notes mentioned birds.  Not
    knowing anything about hawks it never occurred to me to connect it
    but we have a large area in our back yard for bird food.  We are
    surrounded by farm land in the Westboro area and it's not unusual
    to have the trees literally full of birds all taking turns to feed.
    I have had 30+ doves at a time (never been able to count all the little
    ones).  Maybe cutting back on the bird food without starving them will
    help.....it's worth a try.
    
      This is a tough one.  Thanks for all the responses
    
    
      Sandie
    
    
      
    

    
    Well, I hate to sound cruel, but if a large predatory bird was hanging
    around my yard looking to chew my furfaces, I'd utilize the nearest
    20-guage shotgun at the earliest possible opportunity.
    
    McQ
    

    Certainly sounds like a red tail hawk to me.  They could pick up
    a cat with no problem.  Saw one take a duck from the edge of our
    pond here at MKO 2 years back. If you ever saw the mallards we
    have here you would know that's a fat heavy load.
    
    The doves would be a wonderful meal for the hawk.
    
    Suggestion:  If hubby could make a wire frame (using chicken wire)
     you could, set it on top of four cement blocks, and spead the
     bird food on the ground under it and the birds would be safe
    and the hawks couldn't swoop down as the wire would be too close
    to the ground for the angle they would be coming from. This would
    discourage the hawks and the kitties would be safer.
    
    I suspect this hawk is lazy as it has been an open winter so far
    and food plentyful. 
    
    Barbara

    Re: .10 McQ
    
    Breaking out the shotgun is not the solution to all problems!
    Raptors are territorial.  If you eliminate a bird from a territory, 
    another one will just move in and you are back where you started.  The 
    US is running out of Bald Eagles because people thought that shooting 
    them would solve the problem.
    
    The most environmentally friendly way to solve the problem is to find
    a way to *share* the territory with the bird.  This will of course 
    require some effort on the human's part but I would consider it worth
    while.  I think the idea of the chicken wire over the feeding area is a 
    good one to try.  
    
    LaDonna

    Well, the chicken wire would certainly help the birds but the
    cats are still in danger.  Some of the previous stories have also
    highlighted the fact that, at least in some cases, the presence
    of humans has not been a deterent to the hawk so I'd say just going
    out with your cats won't keep them safe either.  
    
    I think the only thing I'd trust is an enclosure for the cats - or
    keeping them inside which isn't always possible.
    
    Good luck.
       Nancy DC
    
    p.s. If you are in the Massachusetts area you might consider the
    audobon (sp?) society.

      It surely sounds like this is a Red Tailed Hawk. I am distressed to
    think that anyone who professes to love animals would want to shoot a
    magnificent bird such as this simply because it has to eat to survive!!
    Shooting it would be not only against Federal Law, but against all
    reasonable thinking as well. It would be similar to me shooting my
    neighbor's cat because she comes into my yard and kills chipmunks and
    birds at my bird feeder. I don't really like it, but it's not worthy of
    a "death sentence"!! If I have raptors in the area, I keep my animals
    indoors.
    
      Red-Tailed Hawks are bird eaters. Normally they will prey on doves,
    blue-jays and other birds in that size range. It would be extremely
    doubtful to find a Red Tail take a rabbit, cat, woodchuck, etc. They
    are adept at capturing their bird prey IN THE AIR, as they will fly
    among trees and brush in pursuit of their prey. There ARE other hawk
    and falcons that WILL take small animals, such as the Coopers Hawk,
    Sparrow Hawk (Both are small though, and usually go for smaller animals
    such as mice, squirrels, chipmunks, etc..) and the larger hawks such as
    the Peregrine Falcon, Gyrfalcon, and some others. 
    
    
      John Mc

    I think your best bet is to call the Audobon Society and speak to
    someone there.  I honestly do not thing your cats are in much danger of
    being taken by a hawk.  
    
    They are located in Lincoln.  
    
    Mark
    

    re: blasting birds
    
    I only meant that if I felt my kitties were in imminent danger of being
    eaten alive, I'd not hesitate to remove the perpetrator preemptorily. 
    I naturally do not make a habit of blasting birdies.  Heck, I don't
    hunt anyway, just target shoot.  But again, I'd certainly protect my
    loved ones against predators if I had to.
    
    And yes, Mr. McD, I do in fact love animals, and would never consider
    harming one unless my loved ones are in grave danger.  Sorry if that
    sounds cold and callous to anyone, just my opinion.
    
    McQ the Misunderstood
    

    Re. .16
    
          I can certainly understand.  It's the same problem as I've had
    with my turkeys - if a dog comes into my yard and threatens/attacks my
    turkeys, we *will* protect them against that dog even if it means using
    the shotgun.  I do love all animals, but the owners of the dog are
    supposed to be following the leash law ...
    
    					- Andrea

yes, I can understand protecting your pets on your property from a dog that
is allowed to run loose - although I would remove the dog to the local 
shelter rather than shoot it...

HOWEVER, we are discussing a natural inhabitant of our land here...the hawk
is SUPPOSED to be here in the USA and is a part of nature...he/she is doing
what hawks must do to live.  A domestic cat is NOT native to any part of the
USA and is, in fact, in competition with the raptors for prey...which is
doubly sad when you consider that the cat is being fed by a human, however, it
is still killing off the prey that the raptor needs to survive.  In the case
of a threat such as this, it is more reasonable -- and more ecologically sane -
to find a method to protect and constrain the domestic cat without negative
impact to the hawk.  A little creativity, sturdy chicken wire, posts, and some
sweat would be all that is required to create a COVERED  area in which the
cat(s) could enjoy the fresh air and sunshine and still be protected from the
raptor....AND THIS COULD ALSO PROTECT THE RAPTOR CHICKS FROM THE CAT(S)...
these birds are PROTECTED by federal law...it is a crime to harm them.  There 
are so few of them left in the world that it is a tragedy to harm or threaten
them.

    I did call Audobon 617-259-9500.  They basically said that there is a
    VERY slight chance that something like this could happen.  If you have
    a very small cat I guess the chances are greater.  
    
    They also said that there is so much other game for them i.e. birds, 
    rodents etc... that they wouldn't bother trying to take something as
    large as a cat.
    
    I never gave much thought to something like this.  I do know a woman
    that breeds Fox Terriers in Sherbon that puts her puppies in her garage
    and leaves the door open for them to get fresh air.  I asked her why
    they were in the garage and she did say she was afraid they would get
    taken by hawks.  These are small puppies.
    
    Mark
    
    

    re: .9
    
    Interesting......
    
    I am in Westboro, at the top of Ruggles St....My Dad and I were
    commenting about the lack of birds at our bird feeders this year.
    
    Michele & Nippa (who's missing her bird T.V.)
    
    

    re:  .20
    
      That is interesting.  I am in Westboro on Glen Street abutting the
    Nourse (sp?) farm and have more birds than we can keep up with.  They
    don't seem to be deterred by the hawks.  They seem to come in flocks..
    Safety in numbers?  Who knows.
    
    
        Sandie
    
    

re: flying in flocks to deter predators

as a matter of fact, biologists believe this is the primary incentive for
birds to form flocks...safety in numbers, indeed.  The idea is perceived to
be that when a flock moves, there is so much disturbance that the predator
will be confused by a "wealth of choices" and, therefore, not nearly so 
accurate.    

If you've ever seen a hawk or eagle work, you know that they still manage
to catch a meal often enough to be pretty impressive.