Conference misery::feline_v1

    I'm sure the mother cat can adapt to living indoors.  It will just
    take time and patience on someone's part.  Wish I could think of
    a good suggestion for catching the kitten.  I am also worried about
    the mother getting pregnant again soon.
    

    The vet told me that because of the way the cat reacted, she could
    already be pregneant.  She doesn't look it.  My other concern is taking the
    mother and leaving the kitten to fend for itself.  Most of the people
    that I talked to (vets, humane societies, cat lovers...) feel that
    she would be better of going to a home where she is free to rome
    outside, providing she is spade.  
    
    				Mary

    If you would like to talk to an expert on this subject you could
    contact Roberta Waxman on FSHQA1::RWAXMAN. This sounds like her
    story except she had 4 babies to trap.
    
    Her story is somewhere in this notes file around 1650.
    
    This girl is a REAL cat lover, and is one wonderful person.
    
    Barbara

    Hey Barbara!
    
    As you were typing your reply, I was busy sending mail to Mary over
    the ENET!!  Talk about telepathy!
    
    Mary - please elaborate on the box/stick/string routine.  And don't
    worry, with a lot of patience and persistance, you'll get the little
    bugger, I promise!
    
    By the way, the humane societies wouldn't help me out either!  My
    neighbor and I spent a total of $140 on Karissa and her babies.
    Now THAT's humanity.
    
    /Roberta
    

    I have already heard from Roberta.  She gave me some good ideas.
    From some of the people that I have just talked to, it sounds like
    the kitten is about four months old.  He is very fast and very smart.
    He loves cheese, Bonkers, tuna, fancy feast....But he would rather
    starve than get within  ten feet of anyone.  I previously said that
    he was two months old.
         If I can catch the kitten somehow I will do it.  I know I can
    catch Mom but I need a good home for her first with someone who knows
    cats and could be patient with her.
         She's a very pretty cat.
    
    
    
    					Mary 

         Don't laugh.  I didn't think this trick up.  A box is propped
    up with a  stick that has a long string attached to it.  You put
    the food under the box.  The the kitten is supposed to go eat the
    food, you pull the string and theoretically you have a kitten.
    The mother came running out of no where for the food and hits the
    stick.  Down comes the box, the food and both cats go flying.  I
    set it back up and left it for an hour or so.  They were onto me
    and that was all that was to it.   They wouldn't go anywhere near
    it.  I think we had quite an audience.  Tiny faces behind the curtains.
    All I managed to do was entertain my neighbors.
    
    
    				Mary

    Mary,
    
    The more you fuss over momma in front of the kitten, the greater
    your chances will be of catching it.  I made a big deal over Karissa
    in front of her babies and it seemed to work.  I would pet her,
    talk to her, and lavish her with affection.  The kittens would sit
    there watching and venture closer each time.  And if you are feeding
    her, all the better!  The important thing is that the kitten will
    feel much more comfortable having momma around and is likely to
    tolerate your presence that much more.  It got to the point where
    I could pet two of Karissa's kittens but not the other two.  They
    knew the sound of my voice meant food and came to my calls, but
    not to ME.  That's why it took so long to finally get them.
    
    Keep trying, and don't rule out the HAV-A-HART trap.  Perhaps if
    you can get momma to the vet and leave her there (drop her off in
    the morning, pick her up later on in the day), you can then work
    on trapping the baby without momma there to interfere.
    
    Good luck!  I know you'll get them!!
    
    /Roberta
    

    Isn't there someone out there who could take the mother cat?  She
    is soooooo sweet.  You could come and meet her first and see how
    sad she is.  I will feed
    her and care for her but she will be outside for the winter.  Even
    someone's garage will be a better place for her.  She really needs
    a break in life....
    
    				Mary
    
    P.S. I will take her to the vet first....
    P.S.S. I've been calling her the waif....

    A new problem has developed.  Cat *THUGS*!!!  There are 2 rather
    large tom cats hanging around beating up on my cats.  My husband
    and I have to protect them while they eat.  One of the cats is easily
    chased off but the other has come after me a couple of times.  Very
    bold!  The neighbors told me that the mom cat was in a very big
    fight yesterday.   As I said before, she is very small.  Should
    I be intervening or should the kittys learn to protect themselves?
    Does anyone have a good idea how to deter these brutes.  They are
    after the food.
        The kitten (getting very big), is still out of my reach and
    I have been unable to find a home for mom.  So I'm afraid that
    they will have to learn to live outside with other cats.
    
         Any ideas would be appreciated.
    
    					Thanks,
    					Mary  
    p.s. Does anyone else lose sleep over these things.

    Oh, ya, someone else is loosing sleep over this, too...just last
    night, in fact.  I've got the same problem with local toms (allegedly
    someone's pets; not feral) beating up on one of my feral cats. 
    I consider myself a cat-lover, but this one cat--named Taurus (and
    if you could see his 'equipment' you'd know why; he's the apparent
    father of my Meggie's four babies) I truly detest.  Whenever he
    comes around my deck, I grab the garden hose (even at 3:00 a.m.
    when he's outside my window screaming his head off) and spray him.
    It's just like my cat-squirter, only a tad bigger (ahem).
    
    Yup, you should interven!  If you've got a hose, do it.  If not,
    toss a bucket of water on them.  It doesn't hurt them, but they
    seem to find it most unpleasant.
    
    I can be such a witch at 3:00 a.m.....
    
    Mary

    Grandma Mary.. are you interfering in "true love here.. " maybe
    if you explain "proper courtship behavior" to him, he will
    bring you flowers instead of serenading you and Meggie. heh-heh
    ;^)))))).....maybe we could have a "kitty wedding".....
    regards
    Kate

    Well, I know that Pookie wants to be Maid Of Honour, but I think
    my Meg is gonna be a single Mom.  Besides, that foul cat made her
    all sorts of promises, like claiming she was the center of his
    universe, and that there could never be another....hmph!  Then he
    leaves her, pregnant, no insurance, no home.....
    
    Hey, Meg couldn't be going back into heat, could she??  The babies
    are only 2 weeks old!
    
    And, Mary (the other Mary...I'm confusing myself), your Mom can
    find happiness inside, just like Meg.  In fact, poor little Meg
    is mostly confined to the nursery since she and Chauncey detest
    each other.
    
    Mary

    How about a trip to the vet to get the toms altered?  (Your cat?
    I thought it was wild....)
    

    The male cat(s) in question belong to someone in the neighborhood.
    There are two of them; both wear collars and are 'fully equipped'.
    I'd love to have them neutered, but they do not belong to me.  As
    for my wild-kitty population, I'm down to one pregnant female whom
    I've tried trapping for 4 years, and one very-ugly female, who doesn't
    seem to have been in the family way (this is one UGLY cat).
    
    And there's little Meg, who will be spayed as soon as the vet gives
    the go-ahead (after the babies are weaned).  I take on the
    responsibilty if dealing with the stray population; I cannot take
    on the responsibility of every cat owner in my neighborhood.  Heck,
    I've already got a vet on retainer....
    
    Mary

I live a few doors down from Mary (Russo), and agree with her - these
cats (the mother and baby) are pet material, not the slinky stray type.
The mother is especially well behaved - comes right over to me. The baby
can run like a jack rabbit, though I have actually managed to pet it once
(before I knew that Mary was so interested in him). It was while he was
so absorbed in eating that he didn't see my hand, and didn't seem to mind
me scratching behind his ears, but as soon as he looked up.. Zoom! The
best I've been able to do since then is about 4 feet - close enough for a
dive-and-grab, but if I missed I'd never get a second chance... The other
two - the nasty bullies - on the other hand, are the kind you want to
shoot. One in particular seems very aggressive. 

When I used to live in Indiana, if people had problems with strays or
other people's bothersome animals, and all else failed, they simply shot
them. Case closed. I know this is beyond the delicate sensibilities of
most of the participants in this conference, but you can't argue with
it's effectiveness... Not everyone would do this of course, but some.
Made sense to me, especially if it involved agressive dogs known to bite,
left to roam neighborhoods at will, with owners who couldn't be bothered
to restrain them. Not a first resort, but a good last one... 

Anyhow, since I live directly across from the place where these cats seem
to congregate, I have been feeding them too, and chasing the bullies away
when I see them (but they are always right back). If I had a gun I just
might be tempted... BLAM! (sorry) 

Anyhow, Mary, it just occurred to me that either the local fish and game
dept or Audubon society might have a Hav-A-Heart trap you can borrow, or
maybe even a local Taylor Rental (outside chance). Maybe even the Boy
Scouts - it could be their good deed! 

I agree that something ought to be done ASAP, since the population of
nasty strays seems to be growing with all the free food out there... 

Ed Preston 

P.S. My wife and I refer to the mom and baby as the wildcat family. 

    I recommend Pounce cat treats for luring the baby.  Someone referred
    to these as "cat heroin".
    

    > Pounce:== cat heroin
    
    Couldn't agree more!!! 
    
    Aja, an aloof twit if there ever was one, will come running from
    anywhere and jump up in my lap at the mere sound of the shaking
    container...
    
    Edd

    Thanks Ed!  I just know that one of the wonderful people who read
    this conference is going to take mom.  I fed the cats on my front
    porch today.  I haven't tried the obvious.  Maybe I should just
    ask the baby in...  No guns Ed. Please....  The noise would probably
    upset Samuel anyway.  I called all of the humane societies on that
    fruitless Saturday.  They  wouldn't help and all of their have
    a heart traps were out for the week.  But I'm sure I'd end up
    with a pet thug cat anyway.  BTW, the one thugs (black and white) is 
    making me feel bad.  He's pouting and he may also be a stray. 
    But I haven't been feeding him.  
    
    			Keep up the good work,
    				Mary  

    I've been giving him bonkers.  Are pounce better?
    
    				Mary

    Re. the two "Thugs", please don't be too harsh on them.  Afterall,
    it's not their fault they were left unneutered by present or previous
    (if stray) owner(s).  :-(
    

    The fact that they are both on the 'plump' side make me think they
    have homes.  They may also be neutered.   They are just trying to
    get in on the eats.  You can be assured that they won't be mistreated
    in any way.  I just chase them a bit.  I am getting worried that
    one is also a stray.  I don't want to feed them in case they have
    homes.  They might get confused and not go home.  In any case,
    they haven't been fighting lately.
    
    					Mary
    

    uhm, Niky and Spiro were both "thugs", i.e., beating up every cat
    in the neighbor hood. Boy, did their catsonalities do an about face
    immediatly after being adopted and "fixed".
    
    Deb

    Hi,
    	I still have twoi very sweet feral cats and I thought that I
    would update anyone that is following the story.  The kitten is
    getting big.  He trusts me alot more and now comes within about
    6 inches of me.  He is still very skiddish and takes off if I breath
    to loud.  I am getting closer though.  He patricularly like our
    new evening snack ritual.  A couple hours after dinner come by for
    treats. (cheese, bonkers, turkey, tuna...)   I throw them to them
    and they get very excited.  I'm getting very attatched to these
    cats and would love to scoop them up and take them both in.  My
    husband is'nt being as cooperative and I also know in my heart that
    these cats won't be happy in the house all of the time.  I have
    an adorable cat named Malcolm who is an indoor only cat.  I asked
    my vet about having these cats and letting them out.  He didn't
    think it was a good idea because Malcolm was a very sick kitten
    (I got him at Buddy Dog).  He had pneumonia, worms.... He was the
    runt of a feral litter and wasn't cared for by the mother.  He is
    doing ok now but has had some recurring problems, mostly asthma.
    The vet said that he really shouldn't be exposed to the sorts of
    things that outdoor cats will bring in.  I am getting worried as
    the nights get colder.  I do want another kitten but it will be
    an indoor cat.  Some people have been suggesting that  I bring them
    to a shelter but I can't bring myself to do that to them.  I want
    a good home for them with someone who loves cats  and would be patient
    with them during the adjustment.  I will take the mother to the
    vet and have her checked out and spayed at my expense if someone
    would take her.  I'm getting worried that no one is going to want
    her because she is not a kitten.  Any advice or takers.
    
    					Please!!
    					mary

    I still think these pusses could adapt well to living indoors.
    

    I haven't put a status in for a bit because nothing had changed
    with my feral cats until this weekend.  I've been working on the
    kitten all summer.  I had her to the point where she would let me
    sit about a foot away from her while she ate.  She hated to be touched
    and would run away very fast.  I started putting her food into the
    pet carrier and finnally had some success on Saturday.   I  caught
    her and took her to the vet.   It was one of the most upsetting
    days that I have ever had.  The poor thing was so scared, she thought
    we were going to kll her or something.  She reacted so hysterically
    when the vet tried to examine her.  She climbed the wall several
    times and it took three people 15 minutes to restrain her.  I  was
    hysterical by this time  and had to wait outside.  I felt so awful
    about bringing her in.  The vets recommendation was that she be
    put to sleep.  I wasn't in a state of mind to make any decision
    at this point but I knew that I didn't want to put her to sleep
    unless she wasn't healthy.  So the poor little girl had to have
    blood taken.  She was quite calm by this point. The assistant had
    her in a soft blanket and I think this made her feel safer.  It
    was so hard to leave her there that night but I knew I wouldn't
    catch her again so she had to stay. Yesterday her FELV test came
    back negative  and I decided to have her spayed. (The vet said she
    is at least 6 monhs old)  His opinion is that the cat will never
    socialize to people because of her age and her reaction to being
    touched.   I  know he is probably right but I'm going to try for
    a little while.  I brought her home yesterday night and set up a
    nice area for her in the basement.  She was a little groggy from
    the surgery so it went pretty  smooth.  There was no  howling or
    climbing of walls which is good because I'm on the verge of a nervous
    breakdown.  I checked on her this morning and she was hiding.  She
    had eaten.  She peed in the litter box and pooped on my husbands
    workbench.(1 for 2 isn't bad)  I'm very upset about doing this to
    her.  I know it was the right thing to do but it doesn't feel like
    it right now.  If she  doesn't seem happy in the house or she doesn't
    adapt, I will take her to a farm or take her of her outside like
    I have been.   At least she is spayed and has her shots so there
    won't be ten more feral kitties next year. Does anyone have any
    experience  with this sort of thing?  How can I make it go smoother?
    How do you box train a cat you can't get near?
    
         Next weekend the fun continues because I have to take her mother
    to the vet.  She is a socialized cat so it should go smoother. 
    I don't know where she is going to go when she comes home but I
    can't leave her out in the colde any longer.   She is a very nice
    cat and would make a great pet.  If anyone can take her I would
    appreciate it very much because  my husband  is losing patience
    with the whole situation and I can't keep her.  She will probably
    be an indoor/outdoor cat.   
    
    
    Thanks for listening... any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
    
    				Mary_who_is_losing_her_mind_in_Chelmsford
    
    

    Nikolas acted the same way when I first captured him and brought
    him to the vet. In fact, he attached himself to the vet's arm.
    The vet had to put him under to give him his shots and tests, and
    we decided to fix him at the same time. To make a long story short,
    he is now one of the most affectionate cats around. Neutering
    seemed to help "relax" him a great deal, but it took a lot of time,
    patience and love.                                     

    Good luck,
    Deb

    Hi Mary,
    
    Welcome to the world of taming ferals; fun isn't it!  Nothing out
    of the oridinary has happened yet so don't worry.  It takes a lot
    of time and patience to tame them, that's for sure.  There are shelters
    that make it a point to do this sort of thing.  My Nikki was tamed
    by the Southboro Humane Society and now he is the most affectionate
    cat I have ever had the pleasure of rescuing.  The level of your
    success will depend on how much time and effort you want to put
    into this kitten.  She can be tamed but chances are, her feral
    instincts will still remain intact (i.e.:  jumping at sudden noises,
    running from strange people, etc.).  My question is this:  What
    do you want to do?  Keep her as a pet?  Bring her to a shelter and
    let them work with her??  Or let her be an outdoor cat as you
    originally stated.  Personally, I don't see anything wrong with
    that choice, BUT, is there a place she can take refuge in from the
    cold like a shed or garage?  I have a friend who cares for the ferals,
    puts worm medication in their food, captures them for spaying/neutering
    and lets them go again.  Every winter, she makes a warm place in
    her garage for them to sleep and leaves the door open a crack so
    they can crawl underneath.  The food and water is kept there
    and it works out well for her.  Of course she has the full support
    of her husband which helps (you mentioned that your husband is going
    crazy).
    
    If you followed my Karissa story, two of her kittens were ultra
    feral.  The woman at the shelter couldn't even get her hands in
    the carrier without them trying to rip her to shreds.  After finally
    getting them into the cage with a pole-like contraption that scruffs
    them, she told me that she honestly didn't think they would ever
    come around and the best thing to do would be to put them to sleep
    (that coupled with the fact that Karissa had leukemia so chances
    were good that her kittens had it too).  I told her to do what she
    felt was best but I didn't want to know about it, so I can see where
    the thought of euthanization would upset you.
    
    I hope things work out.  Keep us posted.  I'll bet you can get this
    baby to come around.  You've gone this far; the best thing to do
    is just keep on going!!
    
    /Roberta
    
    

    Re .27
    
    FLAME ON
    
    Where the H**ll do you get the right to go out and capture some
    innocent cat who is doing nothing to bother you, just because you
    have some idea that the cat would be happier living in different
    surroundings and you don't like the idea of the cat living outside,
    and then you have the cat KILLED.  What did those cats do that made
    tehm deserve to be killed?  
    
    In my opinion, this is no different than hunters killing deer, rabbits,
    etc., EXCEpt for the fact that you have somebody else hold your
    gun.
    
    FLAME OFF
    
    	-Nancy
    
    

RE: 1712.28 by WITNES::MACONE 

>    Where the H**ll do you get the right to go out and capture some
>    innocent cat who is doing nothing to bother you, just because you
>    have some idea that the cat would be happier living in different
>    surroundings and you don't like the idea of the cat living outside,
>    and then you have the cat KILLED.  What did those cats do that made
>    tehm deserve to be killed?  
    
Nancy,

This is something that I have been thinking about alot.  Perhaps you
remember the case of Natasha (note 1641).  In a nutshell, Debbie Robbins
found her in pitiful physical condition and I fostered her for awhile.  
In the process of getting her checked out by a vet we discovered that 
she had been exposed to a fatal disease and there was no way of knowing 
whether she was spreading that disease or not.  

When I reached a point where I could foster her no more, I was really 
torn about what to do with her, especially when I didn't know if we 
could ever get anyone else to take her.  There was a side of me that 
wanted to release her back into the wild, since I share your sentiments 
stated above.  But how could I release her into the wild knowing that 
she might infect other people's beloved house pets with an incurable 
disease?  If I were honest about her medical condition, no shelter 
would take her; if I were dishonest with a shelter, how could I live
with myself?  If I had her put down, how could I live with the knowledge
that this poor cat was taken out of her environment (granted that she
probably wouldn't have lived very long there given her physical
condition) and was then killed for her own good?

It's quite an interesting moral dilemma (from an intellectual point
of view), but let me tell you that it's hell to live through.  I
myself will not judge another's actions in that situation since I've
been there and it's a real tough one.  It quite frequently turns into
a lose/lose situation.  

Pam

    .28
    
        Would you rather them freeze, starve to death, be at the mercy
    of wild dogs and fischer cats, or run over by a car?  Maybe you
    feel that it's very mean to put them down and that's understandable
    however they got more human kindness than they ever did or ever
    would have during that time.
    
         So why don't YOU choose from the above choices how YOU'D like
    them to suffer a slow and painful death?  At least Roberta made
    a big EFFORT to help them instead of turning her back.  I hope there's
    not many feral kittens and cats in your neighborhood......
    
                                                            kim

    Re: .25
    
    Hello, Mary,
    
    What's happening sounds like par for the course for the first stages
    of adopting a feral cat.  My Pussycat, who turned into one of the
    most loving cats imaginable freaked out just like this at the vets
    the first few times.  Finding a calm vet who really loved cats resulted
    in a much calmer Pussycat.  You might also ask about a mild
    tranquilizer (for the cat!) for awhile.  I think keeping a cat indoors
    where they have to adjust is better than letting them outside where
    they might not even return.
    

    Hey Nancy - would you rather them breed and make even MORE feral
    cats??  Or as Kim says, starve or freeze to death???  Where the
    hell do *you* get off acting as miss high and mighty????  How much
    of YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY have you spent on cans/boxes of cat food
    to feed the stray cat population?  Or is your area exempt from them?
    I spend A LOT of money on these animals so they don't starve to
    death.  And they WILL.  Hunting only gets them so far, and they
    would MUCH RATHER eat at my deck than "catch as cats can" in the
    woods.  If one shows signs of being sickly, then I intervene and
    get them to a vet, again, more money.  And even the various vets
    I have frequented tell me that it's more humane to euthanize a feral
    cat than let them fend for themselves outdoors.  The average life
    span is usually 2 years or less, with a lot of suffering due to
    bite wounds, worms, mites, fleas, leukemia, etc.
    
    I'm really sick of all the people in this file who feel the need
    to flame at others.  I might not agree with your way of thinking
    but I would never flame you for it as rudely as you flamed me. 
    It's easy to care about the plight of homeless animals, but a lot
    harder to actually DO something about it.  I've cried enough tears
    for them, so please, go back to your perfect little world and stay
    out of mine.
    
    Just *my* two cents worth.
    
    /Roberta
    

    To the moderators:
    
    I had to get that flame out and I'm sorry.  I will delete my note
    if you feel it's necessary.
    
    Pam's reply slipped in as I was typing mine and she stated her
    viewpoint a lot more delicately.  Thanks, Pam.
    

    The responses in several notes are getting a bit warm. I would
    appreciate it if the participants of this conference would PLEASE
    take the time to really read the notes and replies, and understand
    what the person is really saying BEFORE writing a response, especially
    if that response might be heated. Try to assume that the person that
    wrote it did so without malicious intent, but that that person may not
    be the world's most articulate, best speller/typist with a great
    command of the proper word to use in the case of homonyms/homophones.
    
    And please, if you enter something, try to say what you mean, and be
    sensitive to who your audience is; don't expect people to have to read
    between the lines since that can cause misunderstandings that turn into
    flames which turn into a lot of wasted energy, time and emotions.

    Finally, some replies are beginning to border on personal attacks.
    Please, if you have a compelling need to express a feeling or opinion
    by flaming another person, please do it using some medium other than
    this conference.
    
    Deb
    co-moderator

    Hi,
         I've been in meetings and just got back to read the replies.
     Beleive me, I've thought through every decision that could have
    been made.  These cats were abandoned by someone and don't deserve
    what they have been dealt.  The mother is small and frail, 5 pounds
    tops.  She was probably abandoned because she was pregnant.  She
    doesn't appear to hunt and neither does the kitten.  Maybe if they
    had to they would, but I don't know that.  The kitten is much sturdier
    than the mother.  I wanted to try to make a pet out of the kitten
    because  no one else would take her and within a couple of years
    we will move to a new house. 
         I'm not sure that I've made the right decision to try to make
    a pet out of her, but I know that spaying her was the right thing
    to do.
         A lot of you have done this before and I could really use specific
    advice.  Do I leave her be for awhile?  How long should I wait to
    introduce my cat to her.  I have a lot of patience with the little
    creatures but am not sure what is ahead for me.
        .26  Is your cat now an indoor only cat?  How old was she when
    you got her?     
    
    
         How long should I give her to adapt or not adapt?  Will I know
    in a month....?
    
         Keep the advice coming and I will let you all know of her
    progress.
    
    p.s.  Did I mention that she is almost an exact duplicate of my
    Malcolm?  She will probably have a name by tomorrow.
    
    				Thanks Again,
    				Mary
         
    				

    My recollection is that the vet said Pussycat was 3 or 4 when I
    adopted him, so if you're concerned that the kitten is "too old"
    to adapt, don't be.  It took 2 or 3 months, if I remember correctly,
    for Pussycat to trust me, and about a year before he would trust
    people coming to the house.  I would suggest being really sensitive
    to her -- avoiding anything that seems to scare her, let her know
    when you're coming as opposed to doing anything that looks like
    sneaking up on her, etc.  Easy does it is the rule of thumb.  I
    had no other cat at the time, so I don't know what to do about the
    introduction in these circumstances.  I suspect if your current
    cat tolerates her, an early introduction might help;  the kitten
    will see that the other cat trusts you.
    

    

Mary,

Don't give up .....it took me 8 weeks before Nick and Samson would even
let me pick them up without a total panic attack....Sam has turned into
a very affectionate, cuddly lover....Nick still fears being held, but will
sit on a lap for hours and loves being patted, rubbed, etc..  Both cats
are really reluctant to face strangers, but are very special with me and
my roomy.  And, just to prove you are never too old to learn, Nick has
recently started being much more curious about guests...at 10 years of
age!  On the other hand, Hannah has come around completely and is very
brave and friendly now that she is secure in her home.  All cats are
indoor-only and I think that helps with taming them....if they stay out,
they stay wild.

Be patient, loving, and give her time....make sure she will respond to
YOU before introducing your other cat, but then let them work it out
as much as possible (intervene if real injury seems imminent).  It IS
worth the time and patience....Marge and I can promise that!!

	D with Sam, Nicholas, and Hannah (all ferel rescue cases)

    re: .37 
    
    How old were Nick and Sam when you brougth them in?  My feral kitty
    is in the basement alone.  I've been only going down to feed her
    and  make sure she is ok.  I wanted to give her some time alone.
    Should I try to make contact(pet her) with her soon or leave her be?
    
    On Saturday, I was going to bring Malcolm down for awhile.  I was
    going to putter around cleaning things(in the basement) and try to 
    leave them be.  I think she may react well to him because she was 
    constantly around other cats outside.  Malcolm isn't very agressive
    either.  
    
    The kitty ate all of her food yesterday and used the box.  She was
    still in hiding this morning but in a more open spot.  She also
    meowed at me softly when I came down with food.  I see this as a
    *little* progress.
    
    					Thanks,
    					Mary
    
    
    other cats outside.  

    I would try to make some more contact with her, up to the point
    where she seems comfortable.  She isn't going to get used to you
    if she doesn't see you much.  Each day she will let you get closer.
    

    I agree with .39, she needs to see you more.  Even if she won't
    let you near her often, just sitting down there reading, or letting
    her upstairs will help her get used to your sounds and smells.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    How about leaving a radio on very softly where she is - soft music
    so she will become used to noise & human voices.
    
    Good Luck,
    
    E.T.

>    How about leaving a radio on very softly where she is - soft music
>    so she will become used to noise & human voices.
    
I used this ploy...it seemed to help.  Nick and Sam were just babies,
approx. 9 weeks old when I got them, and real small - each could fit
in my palm with very little overflow (I have small hands), but boy 
they were terrors!  The hissing and spitting was really something.
Hannah was approx. 5 months old when rescued.

Spend time near the kitten and offer her really neat smelling stuff
on a finger (tuna fish gets 'em every time)....patience is the key.

			D

Hi Mary, this is your next-door neighbor. I've been taking care of 
"Momma-Kitty" (my highly original name for her) lately. She comes by 
every morning and evening. Lately she has gotten dried food for breakfast 
and leftovers (chicken, last night) for dinner. I'm glad to hear that 
you've finally gotten little "Baby-Kitty" - I thought she was dead or 
lost since we haven't seen her (female, huh?) for several days. I've even 
started to build a (for lack of a better term) cat house for "Momma", 
since the weather's starting to get a little cold. Lately she's been 
sleeping on our welcome mat at night. She's so even tempered, I'm 
beginning to wonder if she wouldn't get along with Zephyr (who can be
a terror, but has been able to get along w. the in-laws cat when we're on 
vacation).

I don't know if I told you about this, but I knew a man in Indiana who 
befriended a pair of cats even *wider* than these. He left food for 
them ever day, but I never thought they'd *ever* let anyone near them. 
Well, before long, I saw them adjust quite well to his presence, and even 
let him pet them. Eventually, I could pet them, too. If he could do it, 
so can you... Give it at least a few weeks, and provide a nice warm spot
for her to feel safe (sounds like you have.)

BTW, a few days before you captured "Baby", I was feeding them roast-beef 
at our front steps, and the "Baby" was purring up a storm. I even managed 
to scratch her head for a moment before she ran away - then came right back 
for the food. I didn't see your car in the drive, so I didn't try to grab 
her (Ever try to hold a hysterical baby wildcat in your hands while looking 
for your neighbor? Me neither!) I think she's just extra-timid. Our cat, 
Zephyr, (house variety) was spayed when she was about 7 mo, but was so wild 
the day after the surgury that no one in the vet's office dared to reach 
into her cage (what a racket) we had to go in and calm her down and take 
her out ourselves. They said they'd never seen anything like it. All that 
is to say that just because wild-baby went nuts at the vets doesn't 
mean that she can't come to trust you and be comforable in your home.

Again, don't worry about "Momma", she's fine for now, and will probably 
have a little house soon, too.

Ed

    Hi Ed,
         I told Ginny about the kitty.  I was hoping to see you around
    to tell you.  Things are in the workings for the mom cat (we've
    been calling her Nellie because she's so nervous).  A friend of
    my husband has offered to take her if noone else will.  I would
    prefer she stayed in the neighborhood because we are all attached
    to her now.  Do you want her?!!!  She has an 11:40 vet appt. on
    Saturday.  I think it will go smoother than the kitten.   She is,
    like you say, a very agreeable girl.  I'm sure your Zephyr would
    love her!  Let me know if you want her.
    
                                        Thanks,
    					Mary
    
    					
     

          This was the weekend for Nellie(the mother cat).  She went to the
    vet on Saturday.  I never saw such a well behaved cat at the vet.
    She snuggled right up against the vet and fell asleep.  Well, things
    weren't complicated enough with these strays.  She's pregneant!
    I was very nervous about having the kittens (the birth part) and
    because Nellie was such a peach, the vet took her home to have the
    kittens at her house.  I will be getting the entire bunch soon
    afterward. 
         I'm kind of excited about having them for awhile.  I have this
    feeling that the vet is going to get attached to Nellie very fast
    and may keep her (she only has one cat now).  Anyone have room for
    one more?
         The kitten showed a little improvement this weekend but is
    still in hiding.  I think it's going to be a long process with her.
    
    				That's all for now
    				Mary
    

    Hi Mary. Pregnant?! When's she due? 
    
    The other day I was feeding her, and she did look a bit "full" compared
    to her normal self. She even let me feel her stomach, and, to me,
    she sure did seem like she might be expecting again. I had a temporary
    outdoor shelter for her while my wife and considered what we might
    be able to do for her. (It was made from one of those sturdy DEC
    printer boxes and some carpet - she took to it right away) We were
    thinking that if our cat could get used to her, she (our cat) might
    even like the company, but how do you find out w/o risking caos?
    
    Let us know how it goes for "Mummy-Nellie".
    
    Ed
    

    Looks to me like there are going to be enough cats to go around
    for Ed and the vet.
    

    Hi,
    	I just wanted to update everyone on the status of my feral (well
    not really anymore) kitties.
    	Nellie had 2 female kittens.  They are adorable and Nellie is
    a wonderful mom.  They are all healthy and very comfortable in my
    house and out of the cold.  Nellie will be spayed after the kittens
    are weaned and she also has a nice home to go to where I have
    visitation rights.  The kittens are going to a home together
    Christmas week (If they can get them away from me).
    
    	My little wild kitty, Abbie, has also mad a lot of progress.]
    She is a great playmate for Malcolm (my original cat) and they play
    for hours.  She has gotten to trust me quite a bit and loves to
    be pet.  She will only let me pet her while she is in her "hiding"
    spot where she feels secure.  She hasn't  yet got used to my husband
    but is gettin better.  She usually hangs out in the basement and
    comes upstairs to destroy my house while we are sleeping or not
    at home.  But all in all, she seems to be happy and I  think that
    things are working out and are getting better every day.
    
    					That's all for now,
    					Mary
    for