Conference misery::feline_v1

kittens are, like humans, individuals.  You are beginning to recognize the
differences in personality in your two kittens....yes, they will both adapt
to you, your environment, and each other as they grow older - they will get
"nicer", if, to you, "nice" is quieter and calmer....however, the active
kitten is simply showing her intelligence and curiosity, and, of course,
her great "hunting ability" when stalking and attacking the cat brush.  This
is normal and can best be controlled by active play.  Spend time each day
playing with a toy tied to a string, or a kitty tease kind of toy - something
that will run her little legs off and you will have a mellower kitten the
rest of the time.

When mine were little, we had an old knitted scarf that I dragged on the
floor - the kittens chased that scarf all over the house...we would all
end up tired and quite pleased with ourselves.  Play time is so important
to the "bonding" between owner and pet ...and it GOOD for us stuffy old
humans as well - sometimes it is good to remember how much fun is to be
had in meaningless, fun activity.

    There is no such thing as a *mean kitten*.  Just an aggressive, or more
    out-going kitten.  Double will mellow out in time and play-time is
    definitely a good time to work out his/her *aggressiveness*.  Also, if
    he/she is doing something that is too aggressive, you can bring out the
    trusty old water bottle.  It works wonders as a learning tool to show
    what is permitted and what is not permitted.  I've had to use it on my
    wonderful, beautiful , adorable, White Lightning when she decides to
    *harass* Patches the Stray.  It works....
    
    Sandi, mom to Thunder, Lightning, DejaVu, Storm & Patches
    

    Regarding the base note:
    
    Our first cat (Tiffany) is SO loveable, so cuddly and so passive.  She
    was never aggressive and literally kisses people when they come for a 
    visit.
    
    Then I adopted Otis!  Even when I picked 'him' out of the litter to 
    adopt and bring home- he was full of energy and seemed to be a little 
    terror, BUT (I said to myself) he is just a kitten).  He is now 16 months 
    old - weighs 22 lbs - and for the most part - does not like to be held.  
    He does have moments though that are so special to me.  He only purrs at 
    night (in bed) and in the morning - sleeps right next to me and rubs his 
    face against mine to wake me up!  But, when the sun comes up....he's hell 
    on wheels.  He has bonded totally with me and follows me everywhere.
     
    Now Tiffany is a bit more aggressive AND she has mellowed Otis out some.  
    I do see a BIG difference though...now that he has gotten older.  I do
    feel that there is some element of trust here, and when I am alone
    with him and talk softly to him - and the place is quiet - he is much
    more 'trusting'.  He will let me hold him for short periods of time.  A
    lap cat...he is not. 
    
    I will say one thing about him though - he has NEVER broke litter box
    training - he will eat anything - is content to stay in-doors forever -
    fears nothing (my daughters friend brought her Lhasa in the house and
    Otis just laid there and stared her down)...is curious, loyal, loves
    to have his picture taken (a real hambone) adapts easy to change and
    has the most incredible personality of any cat I have ever owned.
    
    People have come to my house - just to see Otis!
    
    Marilyn, Otis, Tiffany & Sam
    

    Also,m some cats have areas of their bodies that are no-nos.  Pussycat
    had what seemed to be a reflex bit when his tummy was touched.  With Holly,
    it's her lower back.  Holly also will get overexcited after a
    certain amount of cuddling, lay her ears back, and bite if she isn't
    leeft alone first.  But its easy to tell when she gets into
    that state.
    

	re: .0

	I too have a pair like yours.  I got them at about the same time
	when they were kittens.  Bandit was always rather mellow and
	T.K. was a little terror.  He would attack Bandit all the time
	but I knew they were just playing.  He also liked to bite alot
	but I stopped him of that habit by making it uncomfortable
	to bite me.  If he bit a finger, I would keep my finger in his
	mouth, pressing down on the tongue and grabing his chin and 
	pressing up - hold for a few seconds and release.  He soon got
	the idea.

	Anyhow, they are now both three years old and I have seen some
	major changes in T.K. in the past 6 months.  He now LOVES to
	be brushed and petted... he is so affectionate now that my
	roommate and I joke that someone switched cats on us.  I can't
	wait till it cools off to see if he will sit in my lap!  He
	still has his crazy times like when you runs around the house
	growling and slamming into walls.

	Try not to see your kitten as mean.  She just has alot of 
	energy and playfullness.  I always enjoyed T.K.s antics.
	I sometimes say... Bandit is the cat I like to cuddle and
	T.K. is the one that makes me laugh.  

	Karen

    Some cats simply hate to be handled.  Isis does not like to be
    picked up and will not sit in your lap.  However, she LOVES to 
    jump up on your back, sit on your shoulders or climb into your
    armpit (Yes, armpit - where she rubs, purrs and drools!).   
    
    You can expect your cat to calm down somewhat around age 2, then
    again around age 5-6.  Isis is really mellowing out (for her) now
    that she's 6 yrs old.  Of course, Mao (age 11) is still prone to
    "hissy fits" when she feels too put-out by the kittens. ;-)
      Nancy
    
    p.s. Halie will NOT tolerate being picked up but LOVES being petted.
    

    One thing I've noticed about cats.  They all find their own unique
    ways of having physical contact with you.  The cat that won't
    sit in your lap or let you pick up and cuddle you may find sleeping
    with its head on your shoulder in bed at night.
    
    So give little "Double trouble" some time.  She's come around.

    Aahhhh, your note brought back memories (this was only
    last year, mind you!) of when I brought home the two
    kittens.
    Rusty was bigger, even undernourished as he was.  Pepper
    was such a runty little fellow, only 2/3 Rusty's size.
    Rusty was the boss, no if, ands or buts.  He fought
    w/Pepper constantly, and even tried it with the two
    3 yr olds.  He was then and still is, a bully.  But,
    Pepper is a wiry little fellow, and can hold his own.
    Rusty always wanted and wants attention now.  Pepper
    wants attention only when HE wants it.  Rusty is very
    aggressive, a.k.a. bully, but he is such a sweetheart
    of a cat. He always wants attention, to be held, patted,
    brushed, talked to.  So does one of my other cats.
    Casey wants to be where you are, but doesn't like to
    be held.  He likes lap-sitting, though.  Pepper as a 
    kitten used to run from people when we tried to handle him.
    Now, he's the first to greet you in the morning, and won't
    give up until he gets just that one pat.  The first at the
    door when you come home, and also with the "pat me or I will
    drive you nuts until you do" routine.  He will even pat you
    on the side of the face if you don't pay attention to him quick
    enough.  He's not a lap-sitter.  But, they adore children, and
    the neigbors kids come over just to play with my 4 cats.
    
    L-

    Cats is as cats are, I always say!  My little Julie, who was born in my
    lap and was held and cuddled and kissed from the instant she was born,
    just hates to be held now.  She fights me to get away and she's also
    quite the little bully as well.  She has an intersting "self-petting"
    mechanism, in that she rubs herself all over me, but she only likes to
    be petted a certain way.  To touch her tummy is certain death.  
    Another kitten from the same litter just can't get enough attention 
    and loves to be held and cuddled, according to her new Dad.
    
    My 4 month old baby Bif, who is a rescued feral kitten, loves to be
    held and cuddled, and he'll even put his face up to my mouth to be
    kissed.  Put him on the floor, however, and all feet are fair game.  We
    call it 'foot safari'.  
    
    Your baby isn't mean; he's just a little brat-cat who'll soon get over
    the brattiness and will grow to be a little monster....
    
    Mary

>    Your baby isn't mean; he's just a little brat-cat who'll soon get over
>    the brattiness and will grow to be a little monster....
    
AND, if Hannah is any clue, will then grow into a bigger, loveable pest...
always looking over your shoulder when you are doing something, reaching
out with a paw to intercept interesting things like paint brushes, wall
paper (wet with glue and on the way to the destination wall)...a standing
joke at my house is that any of my friends know how many projects we've
done since Missy Hannah's last bath...she's wearing a little sample of all
of them!  Luckily, our walls are painted a blue that matches her eyes very
well -- it didn't come out of her coat for several months, but she looked
nice with little blue dots all over her creame coat.  Weird, but very nice.

One additional point to the discussion:

make sure you do hold and pet your kitten every day....even though the
kitten squirms and protests, make sure she understands that YOU decide
when she is held, not her.  It is vitally important to being able to groom,
trim toenails, medicate, and even catch and put into a carrier to get
her to the vet when necessary.  I made the mistake of not doing this when
my Nicholas was young and now I am constantly working with him to make
the necessary handling he must undergo LESS OF A TRAUMA for him.  He hated
being handled as a kitten, so I only handled him when I had to...therefore,
Nick now KNOWS that when "Mom" picks him up, SOMETHING BAD IS GOING TO
HAPPEN...and he is in a constant state of panic when picked up or held.
Now, I have to make sure I get him everyday and just hold and talk to
him so he knows I don't always do bad things...but, his response is well
hammered into his psyche and I know I will have only limited success.
He will always be skittery and jumpy.  I should have handled him more
as a kitten.  Hannah, on the other hand, was feral and very untouchable
when I got her -- I made sure I handled the kitten every day for "Hugs"...
sometimes 3 or 4 times a day.  Now, at 2.5 years old, she is quite a
handful, but she doesn't fight being cuddled or picked up.  She may
protest, but she doesn't fight me...and she even seems to like cuddles...well,
a little - when noone's looking.

    
    Yep, that's my kitties too!  Mine are 2 years old now and really
    "normal", well wort-of.  I got Spike and Lady from the dog pound,
    undernourished and carying every disease known to cats.  Lady ate all
    Spike's food, drank his water, took his toys away ...  Consequently, we
    had a bit of a scare when she doubled her weight, from 1lb to 2, and he
    stayed at <1lb.  With training, she stopped eating his food and he
    grew.  She would not let us pet her and attacked everything.  She tore
    my furniture apart, (luckily it was 1960's hand-me-downs at the time). 
    I almost got rid of her.  However, now she is the warmest cat.  I
    dearly love both my cats but Lady has the great personality.  From the
    time I get up in the morning, she follows me.  If she wants attention
    she meows.  When we come home from work she meows.  When I leave for
    work, she throws herself on the stairs in front of me, all streched out
    on her back.  All four legs are spead in every direction.  (I guess
    she's trying to block by way.)  Then as I step over her, she takes a
    swipe at me.  Like fine, leave me, "POW!"  We have one neighbor that
    she doesn't like and she growls and hisses at him, but no one else.  (I
    don't like him either.)  So don't worry.  I'm sure that your kitty will
    turn out whatever way they want to.  My Lady is now a lap-cat too. And
    every evening, just before my husband and I go to sleep, she comes to
    bed and walks all over us for her evening petting.  
    
    Good luck and don't get rid of her.  Just make sure to pet her and play
    with her even if you don't like her because eventually you will.
    
    Rachael, Spike & Lady