Conference misery::feline_v1

    By the way, they are leaving from Merrimack, NH and driving to
    Los Angeles so he could be placed on the west coast too.

    Benji sounds too good to give up over a little thing like 4 months
    quarantine.  If mom & dad can visit him over the 4 months, and he
    has his other familiar buddies there too, then ?????????
                                            
    
    Lynne

    Barbara,
    
    If your friends are interested in learning about the quarantine
    from someone who is currently living in Hawaii, please have them
    get in touch with me and I will put them in touch with her.  Maybe
    she could answer some of their questions about it, and then they
    could have a better idea of whether or not the cat could take it.
    
    Jo

    Thanks, Jo.  I'll call them this weekend and let you know if they
    would like the info.
    
    I think what they are afraid of is that Ben will develop "cage 
    rage" (that's what the vets call it) and end up with some kind
    of permanent social problems.
    
    I don't know that much about it but my future stepdaughter who
    works at the vet talks about cats having it.
    
    Anyway, you're right...talking with someone who has experienced
    something is the best way to find out about it.
    
    Thanks again.
    
    Barbara

    Re: .2
    
    Unless these people choose what is called "complete care", then
    their animals will not be allowed to quarantine together.  Each
    will be maintained in a separate cage.  
    
    Complete care requires that the owners be there everyday to feed,
    water, and clean their animals cages, as well as provide them with
    attention.  Since there is only one quarantine station, and it is
    on the big island (I think), it isn't always convenient for folks
    to do this.
    
    Jo

    Does anyone have a listing of countries, etc that require quarentine
    for animals if you visit or move there???  It is something I would like
    to have as a reference, just in case I need it.  Also include the time
    period.....I know if I ever had to move to an area, my babies would
    never make it through the quarentine.  They'd die of lonliness!!!  Why
    do animals that go to Hawaii have to be quarrentined?  What diseases
    are they tyring to keep out.  I was surprised to find out about it. 
    Especially if all your animals are up to date on shots, etc, and you
    have the records to prove it.......Thanks for any info.
    

    
    	I know for a fact Ireland and the UK require a quarantine. 
    Ireland is absurd at six months, at the Lissenhall Quarantine Kennels
    in Dublin.  I'm not sure about the duration for the UK.
    
    	McQ
    

    I believe that Australia required quarantine too.   It's too bad
    that a bill of health from a veteraniarian doesn't do for transporting
    animals to other countries, especially when in the company of an
    owner who is moving there permanently.  I understand the notion
    behind quarantine, but I'd think a vet check prior to transport
    should pick up any problems, wouldn't it?
    
    ---kim

    I think the quarantine period in the UK is 6 months - it is to prevent
    rabies getting in to the UK.
    
    
    Lisa.

    The Quarantine for New Zealand is 6 weeks. Not sure why it is so
    short and England's is so long. 
    Please note that, even if you are taking an animal from one protected
    Country to another, you STILL have to enter that animal for quarantine.

    
    showing my ignorance again...
    
    lisa, are you saying there is/are no rabies in the u.k.?
    
    confused diane, stella & stanley
    

    re: .-1
    	As far as I know, both the UK and Ireland pride themselves on
    the virtual non-existence of rabies in those island countries. 
    That is exactly why their quarantine periods are so long.  They
    want to make absolutely sure that there will be no importation of
    that disease.  Both countries rely heavily on agricultural produce
    for their economies, and outbreaks of rabies and other animal diseases
    could have an extremely adverse effect on the farmers.
    
    	McQ
    

    Yup, that's right - no rabies in the UK! It's getting closer though.
    The biggest threat comes from the ports where idiots on boats bring
    cats and dogs. There is a HUGE fine for anyone caught trying to import
    any animal without going through quarentine.
    
    
    Lisa plus P&P.
    

    It also means one less injection to put poor kitty through!

    I still don't understand why a cat or dog WITH up-to-date shots record
    need to be quarantined so long??
    

    
    Being cynical, I'd guess it had something to do with the fact that they
    charge you $$$ for keeping your animal(s) in quarantine all that time. 
    Sounds like a real moneymaker to me :^}
    
    Sandy
    

Re: .15  
           This is the big reason why so many people are trying to get
    the quarantine regulations reviewed and adjusted. I think everyone
    understands and approves of taking whatever measures are necessary
    to keep an area rabies-free. ...but the current regulations seem to
    have nothing to do with what is known about the disease and the
    way it progresses.....
    
    	   In Medina, Ohio ..at the large Birman show last August, ..there
    was a presentation and discussion about the current quarantine
    regulations for bringing cats into Hawaii. I was appalled at the
    conditions of the quarantine ...and the horror stories of poor care,
    disappearing animals, ....and lack of concern about the whole issue.
    It's a situation that deserves attention from all of us...
    
    Linda
                
    Linda  

    I would guess that the reason the quarantine period is neccessary
    is because, even if your animal is vaccinated against Rabies, it
    can still carry the disease. 
    Our animals here are not vaccinated. If we were to allow an animal
    in, without the quarantine, that had been vaccinated, but had been
    bitten by a rabid animal, that animal could still pass on the disease
    and, in a country where Rabies is unknown, there could be a full
    scale epidemic. 
    I suppose they just don't dare take the risk.

    re: 14
    
    I agree - I'm not vaccinating my cats for rabbies any more.  
    I think that especially for the senior cats, it's not necessary.
    I could understand if there was any chance for them to go out,
    which mine do not.  I also think that cats that live in an
    apartment type situation, which gives them less chance to get
    out (generally speaking), it's not necessary.  Why fill them
    up with stuff that they don't need.  Just my opinion.
    
    E.

    E.T.,
    
    I don't give rabies shots either, unless the cat is flying or going to
    Canada, where it is required.
    
    cin
    

    I was considering not giving my cats the rabies shot (since they don't
    go out) but I did anyway since the town was having a rabies clinic (and
    I have a hard time passing up a bargain). About two weeks later my house
    was robbed and 4 of 5 of my cats got out. Argus was gone four days and
    came back with bite marks and scratches and a hole bitten out of him
    that the vet felt was done by a raccoon. From what I understand,
    raccoons can carry rabies. When I finally got all of the cats back in
    the house, I can't tell you how thankful that I was that I had them
    inoculated. As far as I'm concerned, I'm going to continue with the
    shots as a precautionary measure.

    Deb

    I'm with you Deb.  I'm still vaccinating my three for rabies even
    though they never go out.  Now that I'm moving to a ground floor
    apartment their chances of escaping may be a little higher and I'd
    like to be sure they at least have that protection if they do get
    out.
    
    Jan

    I am only rabies vaccinating any cats that I plan to show.  And
    only because if for some reason they get spooked and bite a judge,
    we will all rest easier knowing that the cat was vaccinated.  None
    of my cats go outside, or are exposed to cats that do go outside.
    
    Hawaii is currently rabies free too.  They have a very large mongoose
    population, and are very afraid of what might happen if rabies was
    to infect the mongoose (mongeese?).  The presentation at the Birman
    show in Ohio was given by my friend and mentor, Sheri Moreau, of
    Sacrechat Birmans.  She was transferred to Hawaii last February
    by the Navy.  She is on the Citizens For Quality Quarantine
    coalition, and she and her committee are working hard to improve
    the conditions in the quarantine station there.  It is an uphill
    battle.  Very few changes have taken place so far, not enough for
    Sheri to send for her cats.  
                             
    Jo

    Never thought of vaccinating my cats for showing....I have a really
    hard time picturing one of my overly aggressive Exotics chomping on a
    judge!!!  ;-)  But it is an idea!  
    
    In order for my cats to get out, they'ld have to manage to open at
    least 3 doors!!!!!  all at the same time!
    
    

    My cats aren't overly aggressive either, but I once saw a relatively
    calm cat blow up in a ring and bite a judge real badly.  They rushed
    the judge to the hospital, and about a half hour later, some animal
    control people came looking for the cat.  Scared the you-know-what
    out of me!
    
    Jo

    RE: .25

    When I was trying to teach Argus to walk on a leash, he got spooked and
    chomped through my thumb. When I went to the emergency ward, I got
    asked about the cat, his name, what he looked like, if he had his
    shots, where I went for a vet. I thought the doctor was just being
    friendly but it turned out that they called my vet to be sure that
    Argus had his shots (and he now has a record). It seems that if he
    didn't have his shots, he could have been put down and then had his
    brain examined to see if he was rabid. I guess that is another reason
    to keep the cat up to date on the shots. ( And if you go to a town
    sponsored rabies clinic, it is real important to let you vet know that
    the cat has been inoculated so if he does bite someone, the vet has a
    record of it when the authorities make contact.)

    RE: .24

    Cin, I have the same multiple door set up. The problem was that the
    little brats that broke into the place didn't bother using the door;
    they used a window and left it WIDE open.

    Deb

    re: .21 - I agree with you Deb and for exactly that reason.  I never
    know what's going to happen.  We once had a small rat in a basement
    apartment.  
      Ours only go out on leashes as you folks know - of course, now that
    I've been rehabilitating strays I can never be sure what sorts of
    things those poor little dears may have been exposed to.  
      Right now it seems to me that there is little or NO danger to the
    cat in receiving the shot but there is for not receiving it.  If I
    find out differently - that it does stress the older cat in a bad way
    then I will have to re-think my position.
    
    re: Quarantine - This doesn't make sense to me - if a vaccinated animal
    can carry the disease how will you ever know that s/he has it if s/he
    is totally asymptomatic.  Isn't the idea of Quarantine to give any
    disease a chance to show itself?
      I would have guessed that there is always a chance that the vaccine
    didn't take - as in the case of FLV and that the Quarantine period
    gives time for symptoms to show in the event that a disease is still
    in the incubation period.
      Nancy DC
    

    I never got rabies shots for my cats until about 4 years ago. I had 
    brought Fuzzy Wuzzy, my new kitten, to the vet for his regular shots. 
    When the vet asked if I wanted him to have a rabies shot, too, I said, 
    "No, I don't think it's necessary. He's indoor-only." The vet then 
    told me a story that changed my mind. 

	A woman had a 14-year-old, indoor cat that bit someone -- a child, 
	I think -- who was visiting her. The cat-owner was from a country 
	where rabies existed and was a problem, so she brought the cat to 
	the vet to have it put to sleep and have it tested for rabies. 
	After examining the cat the vet said he thought it was just old 
	and crotchety, not rabid, but the woman was very frightened and 
	insisted he do it. 

    "But my cats don't go outside," I told him. "And besides, none of 
    my friends have kids. My cats would just go hide under the bed if 
    they were bothered. They wouldn't bite anyone."

    The vet said the State wouldn't care if I said my cats were indoor-only. 
    He didn't quote any laws (this is in NH) so I'm not sure about this, 
    but the implication was that if my cat did bite someone, I could be 
    forced to have it euthanized and have its head cut off and sent to the 
    state lab to be tested for rabies. (Even if there aren't any laws that 
    would force me to do that, knowing how sue-happy some people are these 
    days, I could envision such a situation happening.) That thought was 
    more than I could bear, so Fuzzy -- and my other cat -- got rabies shots.

    I admit I scare easily, and I think my vet is extremely cautious and 
    conservative. But rabies shots for my cats does seem to be a sensible 
    precaution, not only to cover the situation the vet told me about. 
    It *is* possible that my cats could come in contact with other animals.
    Though they are indoor-only they have gotten out on rare occasions.
    And sometimes wildlife comes in to visit. My old house had mice living 
    in the attic and basement; Fuzzy was a great hunter, and often caught 
    them if they came into our part of the house. I may be wrong, but I 
    think any warm-blooded animal can carry rabies. Theoretically, at least, 
    that would include mice. A bat once got intoour house, and I know that 
    bats can carry rabies. That's enough possibilities for me!

    The vet I go to now (I moved since then) gives me a nice, official-
    looking certificate with each rabies shot, and a copy is sent to the 
    State in Concord, NH. The rabies shots the cats get now are good for 
    three years.

    Linda

    re. Quarantine:
    
    I had a look in my Cat Bible last night (How to care for your cat,
    or some such title, written by David Taylor).
    It says that the incubation period for Rabies is very long and that
    is why the Quarantine is so long. 
    I suppose with an innoculated cat who has been bitten, the germs
    or whatever would have died off by the time the quarantine is up.
    
    I'm sorry I can't tell you more about it - here it's just something
    you accept as a standard practice. I've never really questioned
    'WHY?'.

    Here in California, it is not a state law that cats must be vaccinated
    for rabies.  It is a state law that dogs be vaccinated for rabies.
    If your cat was to bite someone here in California, they would not
    euthanize, then decapitate and send the head to a lab.  They would
    quarantine it instead, and watch for signs of rabies.  Less tramatic
    than killing your cat, but still a bit of an annoyance.  
    
    Nancy, you really should get in contact with my friend Sheri.  She
    has all kinds of statistics on rabies, information about quarantine,
    and reasonings for why quarantine is not the best way to prevent
    rabies from occuring in Hawaii.  She has spent the last year of
    her life learning all that she can about the subject, since it was
    a major trauma to her to have to leave her cats behind when the
    Navy transferred her to Hawaii.  
    
    Jo

    "She has spent the last year of
    her life learning all that she can about the subject, since it was
    a major trauma to her to have to leave her cats behind when the
    Navy transferred her to Hawaii.  "
    
    Yes I would think so!  I don't know what I'd do if I had to leave
    my crew behind - if I had a choice I guess I wouldn't move.  Of
    course, when one is in the service, one goes where one is sent.
    
    I'd be interested in the info.  I'm always rather interested in
    the "whys" behind things that seem to make no sense on the surface.
    Unfortunately, most of the time they make less sense under the
    surface than they do on top.
      N
    
    

    You are so right about things making less sense under the surface
    than on it!
    
    Sheri is a career officer, Lt. Commander to be exact.  Not bad for
    a woman is her early thirties.  Anyway, she had a choice of going
    to Hawaii or Iceland when her tour in Washington D.C. was over.
    I adopted three of her cats initially, Kaitlin, Krista, and Magda.
    Krista was spayed last year, and placed with one of her grandsons,
    Westie, in a terrific pet home.  Magda was placed with a breeder
    in Texas, and Kaitlin is still with me.  One of Sheri's studs was
    neutered and placed in D.C., the other went back to his breeder,
    who is holding him for Sheri.  Of Sheri's three other queens, two
    went to a friend in L.A., and one went to a new breeder in San
    Francisco.  I recently adopted that one, Kaisha, from the San Francisco
    breeder.   I love Sheri very much, and I know how hard this is for
    her.  I am doing my best to keep up with all of her cats for her
    so I can give her progress reports.  When she gets back to the states,
    I will be giving her kittens from her lines to help her get started
    again.
    
    I will send you mail with her name and phone number.
    
    Jo

    Re .10
    
    Not true. Are you in England? Six weeks may well be true from England
    to New Zealand, and I think there's no quarantine from Australia,
    just stringent requirements about vet certificates of health. However,
    from countries with rabies (including continental USA and continental
    Europe) it is VERY difficult to import cats. I don'tknow the exact
    lengths of time, but I have heard as long as a year. New Zealand
    is a heavily-agricultural country, and we have stringent quarantine
    requirements and import restrictions on all plant/animal imports.
    New Zealand is relatively disease-free, for instance we don't have
    the dreaded foot-and-mouth disease (cats don't catch this, for all
    you worried townies (-: ).
    
    I wanted to clear this up; I don't like the idea of a US noter
    thinking they can bring their animals to New Zealand and being terribly
    disappointed.                                                    
    
    Shayne (New Zealand)

    From what I understand, Sheri can import cats from Australia, New
    Zealand and England to Hawaii without having to quarantine them.
    BUT, the animals must take a direct flight, and if the plane touches
    down on soil of a country that isn't rabies free sometime during
    the flight, the cats would then have to be quarantined in Hawaii
    for the full four months.  So, importing also has to be very carefully
    planned.
    
    Likewise, if someone moves from England to Hawaii and there plane
    stops in L.A., their animals would then have to go through the four
    month quarantine in Hawaii, even if they had never left the plane.
    
    Jo

    I don't know what is going to happen in Britain when the Channel
    tunnel goes through - I'm pretty certain that we won't be rabies
    free then.
    
    It may lead eventually to a review of the quarantine laws but I
    can't say I'm happy about it.
    
    K

    I used to work for Eurotunnel, and I understand that they are taking
    the rabies threat very seriously (as indeed they should).
    
    Obviously it is the tunnel entrance at the Calais (Sangatte) end that
    poses the most threat.  They will put an electric fence around the
    portal and across the front where the train goes in they will have an
    animal sensor device which will stun any fox/rat etc. that tries to
    enter the tunnel entrance via the actual rails on the ground.  There
    will also be numerous video cameras installed which will be constantly
    monitored for stray animals trying to get into the tunnel.
    
    I believe that the most serious threat is not just that fact that there
    will be a fixed link, but that there will be an increase of traffic
    (double or triple within the next few decades) thus increasing the
    likelihood of people trying to smuggle animals in to Britain.  I don't
    believe that rabies will arrive as quickly as some think though.
    
    [Ruth]

A Public TV program approx. 2 months ago covered what scientists seem to
think will be the problems with rabies when the tunnel is complete....
they seemed to feel that domestic pets were not a threat - but they were
deeply concerned about fox and other wild animals.  The scientists
that were interviewed believed that it was going to be impossible to
prevent "invasion" from wild critters, some of which would be rabid.
They are apparently mobilizing school children to recognize what a
sick animal might do/look like and encouraging them to report any "bad"
animal immediately.  By being alert, G.B. can contain any outbreak
very quickly....

I know rabies are frightening -  however, here in the western U.S., the
problem is pretty well controlled except for the odd rabid skunk or
coyote....it can be contained with continuous education to the schools
about the value to innoculating all pets and controlling your pets
wanderings in order to prevent contact with wild animals.  I know it
worked on me....I just automatically get my pets innoculated - even my
indoor-only cats.

    re .33
    Yes, sorry - I'm from England. A friend of ours was going to try
    and take his cats with him from England to NZ (He's from NZ originally)
    and was told that it was a 6 week quarantine period. 
    He has now worked out that it will cost far too much to take the
    cats with him, so has given up on the idea.
    
    Sorry if I've caused any confusion.

    You know, if I lived in the UK and knew that there was a possibility
    of a rabies problem with the building of the tunnel, I'd start
    innoculating my cats against rabies (if its possible to get the
    vaccine).
      Nancy DC

    So far as I can understand, vets will only vaccinate your cat under
    special circumstances here (eg if going abroad).
    
    They've got to BUILD the tunnel yet - and I personally have been
    watching the procedings with some amusement, as well as disgust
    at the amount of money they're wasting.
    
    Typical Anglo-French project!!

    Re -1 (I believe its Julie?)
    
    You are quite right - I've asked about rabies and FELV and been
    told that the first is not available except under the circumstances
    you mentioned and that the second is unnecessary since there is
    a very low incidence of FELV here.
    
    Yeah, the Eurotunnel leaves me between amusement and disgust as
    well.  Its about as popular as the poll tax with people I've spoken
    to, but there must be a silent majority out there who want it,
    otherwise why is it being built? :-|
    
    Kate

>    to, but there must be a silent majority out there who want it,
>    otherwise why is it being built? :-|
    
Merchants in both countries, probably....although, a news report on PBS
the other evening indicated the French side is much more positive about
it - exicted even - while the Britons that were interviewed seemed to
be "resigned" to the whole thing.  You can bet someone is planning on
making money in some manner...or it wouldn't be happening! 8^}

Why do us Brits always have to be so NEGATIVE about things?

Damn right the French are excited.,  They've good reason to be.

a) The Brits don't realise the potential so that gives the French a head start
b) Who wants a 3 hour trip across the Channel by sea?
c) Who wants to be charged around 100 squid to fly across?
d) Who wants to be totally dependant on weather conditions?  Have any of you
crossed the Channel in high winds?  Not fun I can tell you.
d) What is wrong with wanting to get to France quicker?  Why must we always
shut ourselves off from the rest of the world and pretend its not happening?
e) What about the increase in traffic predicted for crossing the Channel in
the next decade?  The Channel's crowded enough as it is.  What do the 
anti-tunnelists propose?  Stay at home?

Yeah, sure there are problems, rabies probably one of the most serious, but 
I believe the advantages far outway them. And what's all this about wasted 
money?  It's not as though we're paying for it (unless you've got shares...).  
In any case, the blame for the rising costs can be put squarely at the foot of 
the contractors, TML (typical builders - make an estimate, then double it 
halfway through building).  

Whatever is said, it can be built, it should be built, and IT WILL BE BUILT.  
They're 3/4 of the way through one of the tunnels to date - so lets start 
taking advantage of it and stop slagging it off.

[Ruth]
(Nothing if not controversial!)

    Getting back to the Hawaii quarantine, I spoke with Sheri last night,
    and she tells me that the House is voting on a bill that would allow
    guide dogs for the handicapped to be excluded from quarantine. 
    This is a step in the right direction.  As the law is now, guide
    dogs must also complete the four month quarantine.  This means that
    handicapped persons living in Hawaii may never leave Hawaii to visit
    the mainland, and that handicapped persons may not be able to relocate
    to Hawaii, or go there for vacations.  As soon as I find out the
    details of the decision, I will let you all know.
    
    Jo

    re: .44  Boy its amazing the things we take for granted sometimes.
    I never thought about what an effect those quarantine laws would have
    on folks who rely on dogs to help them function.  
      We all take seeing-eye dogs for granted these days.  Of course,
    they're going to ride on the subway and be in resteraunts.  But there
    was a time when they weren't allowed on busses or in stores. 
      thanks Jo, for broadening my perspective a little.
    
      Nancy - who got a taste of being handicapped when she had to commute
    from Dorchester to Bedford and back on mass transit with crutches!
    

    After spending 11 months in a wheelchair myself, I can empathize
    with those that are confined to one for life.  The Citizens for
    Quality Quarantine expect that this guide dog bill will pass.  Sheri
    and I discussed amongst ourselves the implications of relying on
    a guide dog, and how that could affect your life if you were living
    in Hawaii.  Currently, the Citizens are aware of ten handicapped
    people who are affected by the current quarantine rules.  These
    people cannot leave their home state, unless they leave their canine
    partners behind.  In some cases, they cannot leave their canine
    partners behind, so they cannot leave the state.  
    
    I will keep you all informed on the status of things as I hear it
    from Sheri.
    
    Jo