Conference misery::feline_v1

    My cat Benjamin had those blockage problems non-stop until we put him
    on the C/D.  He has not had them since.  Your vet is absolutely right;
    a cat can die overnight from these infections because their little
    bladder will burst!  (I liken it to having drunk a six-pack and being
    unable to go... imagine the discomfort!)
    
    Anyway, I seem to recall that the first few times he had the problem,
    the vet put him on anti-biotics much longer than 3 days.  I think it
    was more like a week to 10 days.  I don't think he's getting enough
    drugs into his system before you discontinue them, but then again, I'm
    not a vet!
    
    The problems are frustrating, and I'd feel so bad for poor Benj.  Do
    watch your cat carefully; it's really true that they can die overnight,
    and it's a painful death.
    
    One thing the C/D should do is encourage him to drink water.  I leave a
    couple bowls around, and Benj really has increased his intake.  He's
    been on the C/D for about four years now with absolutely no bladder
    problems whatsoever.
    
    One vet (his old one, before we moved to Manchester) told me that it is
    sometimes caused by getting the cat fixed too early in his life.  But
    I'm not sure if that's what caused his problem.
    
    Good luck!

    
    Well, I do keep him on the medication for 10 days, I just meant that
    after 3 days, I do see results as far as him going...The Vet said if
    he does keep getting it back, then they really need a Urine sample
    to investigate what crystals are in his bladder. Then the crystals
    will state what he is getting too much of. Plus he doesn't like to
    eat the C/D, especially the dry stuff.

    Oh, I see!  Well, I don't have any suggestions... Benj would not eat
    the canned C/D, which is actually better than the dry because there's
    more moisture in it.  I tried for almost a week, and he absolutely
    refused.  He was prepared to starve himself!
    
    He readily ate the dry food.  Sounds as if your cat is the opposite!

    Let the vet do the urinalysis.  Also, maybe a switch to a stronger
    antibiotic would be a good idea.  Sounds like your cat may even
    need a urinary acidifier in addition to his C/D.  Ask your vet about
    that too.
    
    We have had Kalliste on C/D for the last two years or so and he
    hasn't had a recurrence of cystitis.  Monroe and Winston were on
    C/D for many years, and then were switched to the Iams light formula.
    Neither has had a recurrence since the switch to diet food.  There
    is hope, just hang in there.
    
    Jo

    My female cat, Gershwin, has had these problems since she was Two!!!
    We had her on C/D for a few years, and she was doing real well.
    But then the problem starting recurring.  Well, it got more and
    more frequent.  We decided to try to get her to lose some weight.
    My vet seemed to think that her being fat was making the problem
    worse.  So we switched her to R/D (has lots of fiber) about 6 months
    ago, and she has been just fine!! (As well as losing a few pounds.)
    Is your cat overweight??  From what I understand, cats have a tendency
    to gain weight on C/D because it is so easily digestible for them.
    
    When Gershwin was having her problems, we had her on two different
    kinds of medication.  One was capsules, the other little white tablets.
    Later we switched her to other antibiotics because the vet thought
    maybe her system was building up a tolerance.  Also, he told me
    if the problem persisted, we'd have to take x-rays to see if she
    had any real big crystals blocking her up.  I guess there is a way
    to break them up.  She used to not use the litter box when she had
    this problem.  The vet said it was because it was painful for her
    to urinate, so she started associating the pain with the litter
    box.  Luckily we were able to solve the problem before she stopped
    using the litter box all together.
    
    Hope this info helps!
    

    Some thoughts:
    
    Try keeping him on CD canned, no dry food.  There is some
    controversy about whether dry food makes the problem worse, so it
    is at least worth a shot.
    
    Are you feeding him anything else besides the CD?  If so, that
    might be bringing on the attacks.  Pounce cat treats, for example,
    are really bad because of this.  You might ask your vet about
    the safety of whatever else you feed the cat.
    
    I recollect my vet saying that RD was not suitable for long term
    use because it lacked some nutrients;  it was for temporary use only.
    
    I think someone pointed out in this file that CD plus an acidifier
    were not normally supposed to be used together, because it was
    overdoing it and possibly harmful;  again, ask your vet.
    
    It sounds like your vet is doing the right stuff -- as has been said,
    blockages can be swiftly fatal.
    
    Please let us know how things are going.
    
     

         Loki has this problem too; every so often, he gets these "attacks"
    where he starts going to the bathroom every 30 seconds (or so it seems,
    probably more like every couple of minutes ;-) ) and can only pass a
    little bit at a time.  In his case, though, it is more of a feeling
    that he has to go when he gets even the slightest bit of urine in his
    bladder, and that he isn't blocked (which is *great*).
    
         The boys are on a diet of 2/3 R/D and 1/3 9-Lives (for Bigfoot's
    pancreas problems).  He seems to have had fewer attacks since on this
    diet; we also have some Urospaz pills.  When he starts to have an
    attack, we give him 1/2 a tablet and repeat that dosage every 12 hours. 
    Seems to work wonders on him (so far).  With him it seems to be stress-
    related.
    
         Could these be incidents of stress?  Could maybe something like
    Urospaz help your kitty?
    
    					- Andrea
    

Bobbie Joe had this problem twice this year, once very seriously.  He was put on
an accidifier and SD which is a stronger form of CD.  He was on that for 2 - 3 
months and then he went on CD permanently.  The first time he wasn't on the SD 
long enough (only 3 weeks) and developed the condition again after he finished 
his medicine.He is doing much better, but has gained weight like others have 
mentioned. The doctor was very strict that he have absolutely nothing else in 
his diet and mentioned that stress is a major factor for some of these little 
guys problems.

She also talked to me about the fact that Bobbie has an unusually small opening
in his "ureter" (I think this is the term that she used).  She said that if he
had the problem once more that I should seriously consider having an operation 
to enlarge the opening.  I don't remember what the operation entailed, but if 
Bobbie had the problem again I would definately have it done.  He almost died 
the second time he had this problem and I wouldn't want to risk losing him.  The 
operation is supposed to have a high success rate in eliminating the problems
altogether.  I don't know if you ever heard of this type of treatment, but I've
talked to several doctors since then that mentioned the same treatment to me and
had recommended it in stubborn and severe F.U.S. cases.

I know it is hard going through this, I wish you the best of luck.

Kim

    I have heard that sometimes that operation has a problem however, the 
    cat "dribbles" uncontrollably afterwards.
    
    I am wondering if anyone can shed some light on a question I have.  Always
    before my cats have tipped me off that they have FUS by going outside the
    box, or somesuch.  I've never had a cat who actually made frequent trips
    to the box or seemed to be straining.  Little Bit, my new cat, who became
    an indoor cat a month or two ago did something yesterday that puzzled
    me, and I don't know whether to worry or not.  The main litter box
    is in a back bedroom, and I am careful never to disturb a puss whose in
    there, lest they get the idea they are doing something wrong.  So, yesterday
    was the first day I had actually seem LB use the box.  he sat in the 
    box for what seemed like 5 minutes, not seeming to be in any distress,
    just looking around at the room.  At that point Holly zoomed in and
    chased him out, and the litter was disturbed enough so that I couldn't
    tell if he'd done anything or not.  I made it a point to watch him when
    I noticed later in the day that he was revisiting the box.  The same 
    thing happened -- 5 minutes or so or peaceful contemplation of the room,
    thins time no Holly, and when he left the box he had actually used it.
    All the rest of the day he seemed normal, and he certainly wasn't
    making extra trips in there.  Should I worry?  (I'm about to make
    my 5th vet trip in two weeks tomorrow what with shots etc., and I'm on
    vet overload/missing work overload, so I'm appreciate knowing if this 
    might be just an idiosynchrasy (*sp?).
     

    Karen,
    
    I would bring this to the vet's attention.  Usually, cats only take
    a couple of seconds (maybe a minute) to use the box.  Anytime that
    one of mine is in there for a noticeable amount of time (meaning,
    I usually don't notice them using the box, so when I do, something
    may be wrong), I have them checked out.  Also, when they are in
    there for a long time, I always check to see how much urine they
    were able to expell.  You have to get the scoop and dig under the
    surface of the litter, to see how big the wet spot is.  If they
    were in the box for a few minutes, and very little urine is produced,
    that is a sign of trouble.
    
    The vet may want to get a urine sample from him.
    
    Jo

    re: .8

    The procedure is called a "Perinal Uriothectomy" (I've spelt it
    phoneticaly since I'm not sure how it is really spelled), often referred
    to as a "PU". Essentially, they "re-plumb" a male cat so that it uses
    the litter box like a female. Also, if you got a read view of the cat
    you wouldn't realize it is a male.

    My late cat Viper was one of the first cats to have this operation in
    the early 1970s. He lived about 10 years after the surgery (died of
    something else). He did have frequent bouts with FUS, but at the time
    no one knew of the relationship with diet and FUS.

    Argus had this operation about 3 years ago. My only regret is that I
    didn't have the operation done sooner. He was done the fifth time that
    he blocked and the vet that owned the practice was a bit reluctant to
    do it (I think that it was psychological on the vet's part). Soon after
    he got a couple of younger associates on board (including a female),
    they both told me that they recommended the PU procedure if the cat
    blocks twice. Argus has since had a couple of bouts with FUS/bladder
    infections (especially when he gets into one of the other cat's foods
    instead of eating his C/D), but he has never blocked again.

    Neither Argus nor Viper dribbled, nor did they have any psychological
    effects caused by the loss of their male organs.

    Deb

    Re: .10
    
    Okay. sigh.  six appointments in two weeks.  sigh. The good news is that
    I did dig around in the box, and LB did make a big wet area the
    second time.
    

    re .10 and .12
    
    Maybe next time you can give Little Bit a magazine (Cat Fancy?) to
    read.  Sounds like he is *perusing* the situation.  Or maybe you can
    get him a flower so he can pick the petals  *yes I do, no I don't*.
    
    Only teasing.
    
    Sandi, mom to 4 furry friends and 1 stray
    
    

    Good news.   The vet says he thinks LB is just slightly irritated, so
    that he thinks he is going when he isn't, hence the long box stays.
    So the whole crowd will be on SD for three weeks.  I hope they
    like it.....
    

    Karen,
    
    did the vet put him on any anti-biotics (like amoixie) or on an
    acidifier?
    
    Deb

    Nothing besides SD.  He said he could detect no problem whatever, but
    since the behavior was unusual, he was guessing there might be a small
    amount of crystals that had formed, so the SD is to dissolve any
    crystals.  There is stuff in the SD, but what I am not sure.
    

    S/D will slightly acidify the urine which could make the crystals dissolve
    or be suspended (or what ever the term is). The reason I ask is because
    we tried that route with Argus once but since the big guy wouldn't
    touch the S/D, we were never sure if it actually worked.

    Keep an eye on things as the cat wont let you know there is a problem
    until it gets to be major. I hope everything turns out OK

    Deb

    karen...
    
    glad that it only seems to be something minor.  LB sounds like my mama.
    she likes to sit for a bit, usually with her crossword puzzle, until
    the opportune moment arrives!
    
    diane (still her mama's baby) and grandkids stella & stanley
    

    
    my cat magen started out having bladder problems last nov. 1989. he
    started wetting on the rug out-side his litter box. he is an indoor
    cat - part maine coon and weighed 16 1/2 lbs. i took him to the vets
    and he said magen had a bladder infection and crystals. the vet gave
    him hetacin k. after taking this, i had a urine-analyst done and the
    infection was still there and magen still wet on the rug. i ended up
    giving magen all of the following drugs - tribrissen, chloramphenicol,
    prednisone (which made him really sick - would not eat, vomitting
    bile), tetracycline. i was going back and forth to the vets twice
    a week with him, for blood test, urine-analysts, and whatever tests
    the vet could think of. in april of 1989, he went down to 11 lbs,
    would not eat, would go in the corner of the bathroom, would not
    come near me. my vet suggested we take him to tufts vet. school in
    grafton, ma. as his white blood count went down to 2500 - from 10000.
    they were really great at tufts. ran all kinds of tests.
    they tested for feline-leukemia, which he came out negative. they
    put him on winstrol and he started to eat again. he stayed at tufts
    for 3 days. my vet then ran alot of blood tests to find out that
    magen was resistant to all 22 anti-biotics they could have given
    him for the bladder infection. the vet took out his medical book and
    found a new human drug: cipro. it had to be mixed with hersey's
    sryup. i had to get this drug from CVS. magen was on this for 21
    days, twice a day. he even let me give him the medicine by my self.
    before it took 2 of us to get it in him and then he would just vomit 
    it back up. after being on cipro, his infection went away. its been
    7 months now and magen is back up to 18 lbs, is is friskie self and
    is really loveable again. it cost us nearly $1,800, but he is
    really worth it. he will be 5 years old on valentine's day and is
    surely the love of my life. he has to eat c/d food - but he likes it.
    i just happen to have a cat who cannot take anti-biotics. my vet
    said it is rare to find this, but i have one. you may suggest this
    drug to your vet. it cleared up magen's infection that all the other
    anti-biotics would not do.
    
    cindi
    
    

    I'm glad to hear Magen is doing well.  Holly is allergic to
    a common antibiotic also (amoxiwhatsis) and she displays
    the same symptom -- up it comes.
    

    
    update on magen, re .19. yesterday i brought in a urine sample for
    magen's 5 month check up and guess what???? its back!!! the bladder
    infection is back, along with the crystals. he is on canned and dry
    c/d. in talking with the vet last night, i told him that i give both
    my furfaces deli meat once a day. i vary between turkey, ham, chicken
    roll or turkey-ham. the vet thinks the ham may trigger the crystals -
    due to the salt content or the way its baked. magen is very sensative,
    and he thinks his system cannot break this down. he put magen on the
    veterian version of cipro - called baytril. he has to take 1/2 tablet
    twice a day for 2 weeks, then 1/2 tablet once a day for another
    two weeks. magen is still eating and acting normal, except he started
    to wet on the rug --- his sign of the infection. the vet said to just
    feed magen c/d........... hope this works this time.....
    
    cindi
    

    Bladder infections take a lot of patience and persistence to get rid
    of. Sometimes the problem is not keeping them on antibiotics long
    enough (Niky has to be on Clavomax for a full three weeks of it will
    recur). As for crystallizing, some cats metabolism is just more prone
    to developing crystals than others, so it is real important that those
    cats be kept on diets that make the urine a bit more acidic as well as
    staying away from certain foods (i.e., everything but Hills C/D or S/D;
    for cats that refuse those foods, KalKan moist is a good alternative
    because it acidifies the urine).


    I *REALLY* know what you are going through. Since this is starting to
    sound chronic, you might ask the vet about performing a "PU" on the cat.
    It solved 99% of Argus' problems (along with a strict C/D diet).

    Personally, I've noticed that if I let the temperature get below 68 in
    the house Niky and Pip will "catch a cold" in their bladder. So, I keep
    a small heater in the upstairs bedroom going all day and it has helped
    a great deal (Niky prefers to sit in a drafty window and watch birds
    and catch a cold. Males, what are you going to do with them :-) )

    Deb

    Deli meat once a day sounds like it might be a bit of an unbalanced
    diet.  Did the vet say this was nutritionally okay?  I don't give it to
    my guys more than about once a week. The rest of the time they get
    CD + Science diet dry.
    

    I wonder if some baby food might be a safer treat for them.
    

    
    the deli meat was just a treat. i would give them one slice each and
    they would still get the c/d. the vet didn't say it wasn't bad for
    them -- just that the way the way the meat could be cooked could
    trigger off the crystals or bladder infection in magen. i will have
    to ask him about the baby food. he said to just give him 100% c/d.
    magen is taking the  pills fine - and is still acting very normal.
    we are watching for any signs of sickness or reaction to the baytril.
    
    cindi
    
    

    
    cindi...
    
    sending good wishes to you and magen!
    
    diane, stella stanley