Conference misery::feline_v1

             
    I just spoke to my neighbor, and want to add a few new pieces of
    information....
    
    She says that the vet made a possible diagnosis of acute hepatitis
    but also said it could have been poisoning.  When she brought up
    the idea of an autopsy, the vet said it probably wouldn't show anything
    conclusive.  Does this sound right?  Does hepatitis sound consistent
    with a death this sudden?
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Lynn
     

    
    	It kinda DOES sound like a poisoning doesn't it? It
    	will be interesting to see what an autopsy reveals.
    	Not to be indelicate or anything but I don't suppose
    	any of what the cat threw up the first time was retrieved
    	for analysis just in case?  How are the other kitties?
    	If it were bacterial, I would be worried about those
    	guys. If it is poisoning, I still would worry about the
    	other guys.
    				kim and the Nipper
    

    
    	Just read the second note. There are a number of chemical
    	compounds that will drastically affect liver function.
    	Some can be ingested and others can be absorbed through
    	the skin (paws, licked off the fur, etc). 
    
    	Just as an aside, Catnippy got extremely sick as a kitten.
    	She was spayed (her regular vet was out of town) and the
    	new partner in the office did the work. He sent her home
    	and she didn't act right. She wasn't eating, was vomiting
    	and was extremely lethargic. He said that was normal???
    	I was working as a Medical Technologist at the time so
    	I tested the vomitus and it contained blood (not readily
    	apparent). I took some blood to my lab and tested for liver
    	function and other things. Her liver function was almost non
    	existent and she was severely dehydrated. I called and told
    	him this and he said she would get over it. My own vet fortunately
    	returned and I laid this all on him and he told me to get
    	her right down there. Her fur pulled out easily, coat was dull
    	and her skin was loose. He put her on subcutaneous fluids and
    	drugs to sustain her while (WE HOPED) her liver could regroup
    	and we all crossed our fingers a lot. She made it but it was
    	sticky. The vet got a new partner...
    	To this day, I need to be careful with surgery and they must
    	go light on the aenesthesia as it still tends to affect her
    	liver function. It takes her days to recover even with this.
    
    	Maybe they can do some sort of tox screen on tissue? It would 
    	probably be expensive though and sometimes the poisons don't
    	leave footprints as they get flushed or converted into normal
    	looking stuff. Meaning, you might never find out. I'd for sure
    	be watching the other guys pretty closely.
    
    	Checked for things like mouse baits, etc?
    
    						kim

    Uh, the cat didn't happen toget into any antifreeze, did it?
    
    Deb
    

    When Kitty died quickly- I had asked the Vet about Antifreeze and he
    commented that antifreeze works very fast and in very small amounts, a
    cat will die almost instantaneous.
    
    Although it still could be a poison as they all have different symptoms
    & timeframes depending on which one it is.  It's so hard to determine
    which one it is without having hard evidence.
    
    So sorry to hear about her!  I know what the owners & yourself must be
    going through!  I just went through something similar 2 months ago.
    

    I would still get the autopsy, even though the vet said that the
    results could be inconclusive.  There is still a chance that the
    autopsy may reveal the cause of death.  There are many diseases
    that can affect the liver, and cause death very rapidly.  The rest
    of you might rest easier after having more information.
    
    Jo

     I knew an outdoor cat in the neighborhood who died exactly like
    that...and the cause was from antifreeze which had dripped under the
    owners car.  
     I'd go for an autopsy, it should show something.
    
                                           Denise

    According to the Cat Owner's Home Veterinary handbook, one tablespoon
    of anti-freeze is sufficient to kill a cat.

    My Vet had told me that a small lick of anti-freeze could kill a cat.

    
    	My vet told me that the chemical make-up of antifreeze tastes
    to a cat very much like maple syrup does to us.  If there was any
    anitfreeze laying around, or collecting in puddles mixed with water
    anywhere, a cat would be very tempted to drink it.  That's what
    this sounds like to me.  I'd be interested in hearing what an autopsy
    says, as well.
    
    	By the way, I too lost a cat in this very same manner (Malcolm
    back in Sept. '85), and that's when the antifreeze discussion came
    up.  I didn't bother with an autopsy, though, I was too upset.
    
    	McQ
    

    
    Thank you all for your help in trying to figure out what caused
    poor Sasha to meet an untimely end...
    
    I'll look around for anti-freeze, that's always a possibility I
    guess, and it shouldn't be lying around in any case.  The town that
    I live in has a bit of a problem with roof rats, and the possibility
    of Sasha getting into rat poison somewhere has also crossed our
    minds, and we're looking into that as well.  In the meantime, there
    two other cats and my two others aren't exhibiting any signs of
    illness.  It's peculiar though.... I always thought Sasha had a
    bit of a crush on my Molly, because he was always following her
    around and sitting close by her  --she wouldn't give him the
    time of day, but that didn't seem to deter him.   Now, since Sasha's
    death, Molly won't let me hold her or pet her!  I hope she gets
    over it...
    
    Any thoughts on the diagnosis of hepatitis?  Do the symptoms fit?
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Lynn
    
    
    

    Re: .11
    I lost a cat to congenital hepititis.  It was not quick!!!  It was
    evident at least two weeks prior that something was wrong.  It began
    with lack of appetite, and then went from lack of appetite to
    listlessness, and the beginnings of jaundice.  The symptoms progressed
    from there until I had my baby put to sleep because he wasn't
    responding to treatment, and he started having convulsions.  It didn't
    happen overnight....I often wish it had!!!  
    
    cin
    

    I had hepatitis myself a couple of years ago. It came on quite slowly,
    over several days, and then lasted for months. This was, of course,
    human hepatitis, not feline.
    
    According to 'The Book of the Cat' can be caused by poisons or by
    other diseases. Symptoms include depression, loss of weight and
    appetite, and diarrhoea or constipation. The whites of their eyes
    become yellow (just like people with hep!).
    
    Let us know what you find out.
    
    Shayne (New Zealand)

    
    Thanks for all the info on hepatitis....  The more I find out, the
    more I believe it was poisoning, but without an autopsy being done,
    I guess we'll never truly know.  Sasha's eyes were definately not
    yellow, nor was she even slightly lethargic...   We have looked
    around for antifreeze, and haven't found any yet...
    
    thanks again for all your help,
    
    lynn
    

You may have to travel a bit to find where Sasha might have gotten into
the poison....a cat that goes out can cover many square blocks around the
home base during normal daily wanderings.

You may also be dealing with one of the "slow-acting" rat/mouse
poisons designed to allow the rodent to leave the area before dying.  If
a cat gets one of the poisoned rodents, it dies more slowly and quite
painfully.  It is quite possible that someone within "cat wander"
distance is dealing with a mouse/rat infestation by using DCON.  If
so, any other cats you have can be in real danger - the same is true
for neighbors' cats.  If you know of any other cats, you might pass
the warning that Sasha was poisoned so they can decide whether to
protect their animals by keeping them in for awhile.

    From our recent experience with LandShark and talking extensively
    with our vet, antifreeze affects the kidneys and not the liver.  One of
    the "free agents" in antifreeze binds with the walls of the
    kidneys and effectively crystallizes them and shuts down production. 
    Once the kidneys are shut down, the normal poisons and toxins in 
    the cat's body cannot be removed as they should be and the cat
    dies of poisoning.
    
    There are a few ways to combat poisoning.  If you find it early
    enough (within 6 hours) take the cat to the vet IMMEDIATELY and
    tell them what your cat ate.  You cannot afford to waste any time
    with this.  The vet will then either prescribe fluids, dialysis,
    or any other technique available to rid your cat of its toxins
    and to try and flush the kidneys so they can resume work with a
    minimum of damage.  Do whatever you can to get your cat to a vet
    as soon as possible, time is of the absolute essence.
    
    If ALL fails, and I mean ALL, (no vet, no hospital, no emergency
    care, etc.) give your cat alcohol (vodka would be okay).  What
    happens is that the alcohol competes with the antifreeze for 
    binding places in the kidneys and prevents the antifreeze from
    crystalizing the kidneys.  I repeat "THIS IS ONLY A LAST RESORT
    WHEN YOU CANNOT GET TO A VET OR OTHER EMERGENCY CARE WITHIN A
    FEW HOURS OF DISCOVERING YOUR CAT HAS SIPPED ANTIFREEZE."
    
    Our vet had a story to tell about a cat who was drunk for 
    three days, but that's another tale.  (It occurred while he was
    interning at UC Davis).
    
    By the way, UC Davis has developed a relatively successful kidney
    transplant operation for cats as long as your cat meets specific
    criteria.  If anyone would like more information, I can enter it.
    
    Take care and watch for that antifreeze,
    
    Jill
    

    I have heard of that program.  I think that part of the program
    includes adopting the donor cat.  I read a story about a lady who
    had the operation done to her cat, and adopted the donor cat too.
    
    Jo

    Re: alcohol
    
    Just in case someone misinterprets this, it should probably be noted
    that you are talking about normal drinking alcohol, not rubbing
    alcohol (which is poisonous itself).  Also, I remember reading once
    that a human could die from drinking too much alcohol at once (it 
    dilutes the blood past some safety level).  Did your vet give you any
    idea of how much alcohol to give a cat in this situation?
    

    Karen,
    
    Thanks for the reminder.  I'm going to the vet's next weekend; I'll
    be sure to ask him about the dosage.
    
    -----
    
    Jo,
    
    I'll see if I can find that article again and enter it.  The
    recipient's family is to adopt the donor cat if they can't find
    their own donor cat.
    
    Jill