Conference misery::feline_v1

    $50 is a good price for a declaw.  Declawing a cat is a very delicate
    procedure and you're not going to find a vet to do it "cheap." 
    If you don't want to pay for good veterinary care, then you shouldn't
    have an animal.
    
    Vets have to make a living too.  Do you know what the declaw process
    involves?  Are you aware of the risks involved??  Price should be
    a secondary concern.  Your primary concern should be to find a vet
    who will perform the procedure properly and with a minimum amount
    of discomfort to your cat.
    

    Why don't you let us know why you want your cat declawed?  Perhaps
    we can come up with alternative and cheaper suggestions for
    alternatives.
    

    I guess that I agree with .1 and .2!
    
    .0, you might want to try buying your kitty a scratch post.  My cats
    prefer the ones with carpeting on them.  Honestly, they work like
    magic!  As soon as I brought in my post, the cats stopped scratching
    the furniture.  Give it a try!
    
    Jeanne
    

    
    
    RE -All
    
    Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my cat and would do anything for her!!!
    
    RE: Why need to declaw her, because I just bought a NEW sectional
    and she ruining it by clawing on the side of it. I rather her use
    the scratch post (alot cheaper than declawing!).   I brought her
    a scratch post with carpeting on it but when I showed it to her
    she just smelled it and she walked away.  I tried to put her claws
    up to it and she ran away afterwards.  She persistantly uses the
    couch.  I can hear her scratching at night when I'm sleeping.  I
    get sooooooo mad and hit her (not hard!) and tell her NO.  She
    seems to listen but she does it the next evening again (dumb?).  
    Now I think she waits til I leave in th emorning to do it (I don't 
    think she wants to get hit, so she waits til I leave!).  
    
    My question:  How do you get a cat to use the scratch post ?
    I know you should teach them when small, but too late for that now!
    
    How do you introduce a NEW scratch post to a cat! 
    
    PLEASE help!  I just don't think the cat realizes what shes doing!
    
                                                        

    Hi .4
    
    You might want to try a few things.  First, make sure the post is very
    stable.  Cats don't generally like to scratch on things that move or
    fall over.
    
    You might also want to pin a towel over the arm of the couch so that it
    covers the area that she has been scratching.  Then put the new scratch
    post in front of that area.  Rub a little cat nip on it, that might
    help.  You might also play a little game of "chase the string".  Take
    string or yarn and wiggle it on the post.  I assure you, she will go
    for it.  When she does, her claws will sink into the carpeted post and
    maybe she'll get the idea.  Be sure to praise her!  
    
    When she gets the idea, you will be able to move the post to a new
    location.  
    
    Jeanne
    

    re: cost of vet care -  Part of the problem is lack of useful health
    insurance for vet care.  Since the owner ends up paying 100% of
    the bill the vet is caught between charging enough to make a living
    and charging so much that people can't afford to take care of their
    cats.   Vets only make an average of $40k/year.  That may sound
    like alot in some parts of the country, but around here (Boston)
    that's not very much.  Especially when you consider that a vet
    education costs as much, if not more, than an MD.
      Nancy DC

    Try securing some sisal rope to the post or purchase a post that
    has it.  Sisal rope is a rope with a scratchy surface very attractive
    to cats.  I didn't even have to train mine!  They took to it instantly
    and my new furniture is in terrific condition.  Of course my cat
    hating friends and relatives cannot understand why I would have
    such an "unsightly" piece of furniture in my living room!"  Hey!
    They're my cats!!  I wouldn't have it any other way.
    
    --Roberta
    

    
    There's also something by Hartz Mountain called 'Indoor NO'.  It's a
    spray can of some foul-smelling stuff - apparently cats hate it.  The
    instructions recommend spraying some on a napkin and pinning it to the
    spot the cat is using.  Maybe this could be used in conjunction with
    the scratching-post ideas?
    
    Sandy
    

    Spray the post with cat nip scent or rub cat nip on it.  tie a piece
    of sturdy rope to the top and let it dangle for her to play with.
    
    Do you trim her nails every week (to start with) .  I find when
    they feel the need to scratch, it's cause their nails need trimming.
    
    Is the post in the room where you are most?  Mine use them less
    if I can't see them being wonderful !!
    
    Good Luck
    
    E.T.

    The post has to be tall enough for the cat to stretch out and heavy
    enough to be stable so it won't move when the cat uses it.  All mine
    got the idea right away when I put catnip on the top of the post --
    they had to put their paws on the post to reach up to sniff the
    catnip, and I guess they realized right then that the post felt good.
    I coaxed each cat over to the post and then let them smell the catnip
    and then put the ctanip on top.  I think trying to pick up the
    cat bodily and put its paws on the post is counterproductive --
    it triggers the cat's independence gene.
    
    Different cats do seem to like different textures.  Mine all like
    carpeting, but they are also crazy about cardboard -- I have a stack of
    three cardboard boxes in my kitchen at the moment, and the middle
    one is in tatters.      
    

             Declawing Cats What a Sin.
         
        I have two fully grown cats of which one we recieved from an
    animal shelter just after purchasing a new sofa. Two good ways I
    have found to train a kitten or cat are a spray bottle and balloons.
        Balloons attached to your sofa can have a scary effect on a
    cat. When they start to claw the sofa they hit a balloon and pop
    goes one balloon this process scares the cat and sends him running.
        Also the famous water bottle used only when the cat is doing
    something wrong never in playing around my cats now see me going
    for the bottle and know they are in trouble they just take off.
         You must understand cats take time to train and need alot of
    love but to me to declaw them is bad news. Just knowing how they
    have to do this makes me ill.
        >Hope these ideas are helpful.
             
           Happiness is happy Little Kitties
                                            
    

    As you have noticed, cats don't respond well to physical punishments
    like spanking and hitting.  Karen stated it well, it brings out
    their independence genes.  Also, if you scold her for scratching
    the coach, then grab her and stick her on the post, you are
    inadvertently associating her post with a bad experience.  The two
    should be separate issues.  Always make the post a fun and positive
    experience for her.  Don't let her have access to the coach when
    you are not there to correct her.  If that means locking her in
    your bedroom with you at night, then do it.  Also during the day.
    She must not know that she can get away with scratching your sofa
    while you are either asleep or not home.
    
    The ideas about draping string over the post and playing with her
    are good ones.  Also, I second the "keep her nails trimmed" suggestion.
    Cats scratch to shed their nails and to scent mark.  They usually
    do not scratch to "sharpen" their nails like most people think.
    
    Jo (who has 23+ cats and beautiful furniture)
    

    re: 13
    
    You know Jo, I have 18 cats and the furniture shows NOTHING.
    I'm still amazed about it though.  I have taken a kitten
    (large enough,say 3 or 4 months old) and sort of stuck
    them on the post like velcro - they grab on right away
    and then play with the top of the post - run up and down,
    catch on right away.  For some unknown reason, they just
    don't scratch the couches or chairs.  I do have the 3 condos
    in the livingroom - if I don't have something for them in that
    room, they show me that they don't like it.  The only problem I
    have is that some of my brats like the commercial grade plum
    colored carpeting in Lil's room.  I wish all my scratching furniture
    was covered in commercial grade - it's tougher than nails!
    
    E.T.

    on the general subject of this note i had doctor fitzgerald from
    lunenburg/fitchburg do my two babies last september.  after much
    confusion about what was best for all of us and watching the furniture
    get ripped to shreds we decided to go through with it.  our kitties do
    use their scratch posts but we're not home all day and i didn't want
    them to confine them to the hallways..  the only place where there
    wasn't furniture that they pricked.
    so we did and got them back the same day .. but you can read about that
    in the positive note about declawing.  
    the price for both was 70.00 and that included their shots for the year
    and three office visits (i wanted to be sure that they were o.k.) and
    they are fine now and even still use the post.  of course, they can't
    climb up it but they do their best and don't seem to mind at all.  in
    fact, sometimes i think they like it better because they don't get
    caught in everything.
    
    his number if you would like to call him is 342-5892.  hope this
    helps...
    
    
    carlajeanne,
    mom of verne and shirl :)
    

    RE: .13, .14

    I only have 7 (not nearly as many as Jo or E.T.), but 4 were feral, and
    I'm also amazed that my furniture isn't shreded (or scratched). I've got
    plenty of scratching furniture all over the house. I made sure that all
    of the furniture is long enough for the big cats to stretch while they
    are scratching, and I will admit to initially baiting the furniture
    with catnip.

    Something I've noticed, though, is that when I'm particularly busy at
    work and thus coming home late and probably not giving the cats the
    attention that they are used to, Pip and Eirene will scratch what ever
    I am sitting in. I've found that by picking said kitty up and devoting
    even just 5 minutes to that particular cat, just talking calmly and
    patting or brushing the cat (NOT SCOLDING) stops the scratching. I
    guess that what I am trying to say here is that sometimes cats will
    scratch for attention.

    Deb  

    re; commercial grade carpeting.
    
    I bought a small (very tightly woven) oriental rug awhile ago and it is
    Plaything #1.  With three cats scratching it and chasing invisible
    mice under it and wrapping themselves in it, it amazingly doesn't
    show one sign of damage.  I hope they get tired of this soon;  nothing
    like have a rug that's a lump in th emiddle of the floor :-)
    

    .14
    
    how can you fit three (3) condos in your living
    room????????????????????
    
    
    
    
    
    
    i couldn't resist (smile) i know what your trying to say...
    
    
    cj
    
    

    
    
    I have to agree with .16, as I have noticed Nippa will scratch
    something, she knows she's not supposed to, when she is not getting
    the attention she wants.  She has a mini condo type thing which is her
    piece of furniture in the family room (plus a few assorted chairs
    through out the house and the entire basement is hers to scratch).
    
    I have found she enjoys scratching the 2X4 exposed wall studs, any
    exposed wood on the decks ect.  She also gets great pleasure shredding
    an old rolled up carpet pad - its not the synthetic rubbery type, but 
    a fiberous one.  the only problem is she'll drag bits and pieces around
    for days.
    
    She was feral when I got her, and my parents and I agreed if she 
    destroyed one chair, carpet or drape, she would have to be placed
    elsewhere (she would never be happy declawed and inside only).
    
    	So have hope, and provide lots of scratching stimulation!
    
    M&N
    
    

    re: 18
    
    it's a tight squeeeeeze!!!
    
    Actually, I wish I could get a couple more - they are really great.
    They are 3-tier and are about 3.5 feet high (approx) and the tops
    are about 18" x 18" approx.  they collapse - when you all go to
    the Marlboro show, check out Arubacat trees - Artie Mitchell is
    making one very similar to the ones that I have from Summit Pet
    Products .  They are hard for him to ship, so I hesitate to
    order another.  I sorta hate having them in the living room
    cause they really are shredded and messy, but the kids really
    love them.  They will just walk over to the them from where ever
    they are and reach up and scratch.  They could go to the couch
    just as easily, but they dun't !!  I have the 3 of them lined
    up under the windows along the porch (actually, they are window
    sill high, so that's maybe 3 feet from the floor?) I need to get
    them recarpeted someday.  It's 'on the list' if ya know what I
    mean!!
    
    E.T.

    
    
    Somebody mentioned trimming the cats nails ... How does one do
    that without getting clawed to death ?   I'm curious!
                                                           
    THanks

    If you will be at the Marlboro catshow this weekend let me know.
    I'll bring my clippers and show you how its done.
      Nancy DC

    
    
    I won't be able to make it but is it easy to do ?
    
    Much appreciated!!

	This is the way I trim my little monsters nails:  I place their
    hind paws between my knees and I gently press each toe until the
    nail is exposed.  I place the toe clippers near the blood line and
    I cut.  Every once in a while the little rascals get antsy, but
    they usually will let me do one paw without fuss.  The second paw
    is a little more difficult, as it is on the other side, however,
    the monsters will let me do it anyway.  The trick is to start trimming
    the nails when they are young and you've gotta do it EVERY week.
    Once the monsters get used to it, then each successive trimming
    will be a lot less hassle.  I just trimmed Pixie's the other night
    and I got 8 of the 10 nails done with very little hassle, however,
    once he sees Dixie (the female) playing around, he wants to join
    in the fun.  If you have 2 cats, then maybe it might be better to
    separate them and then trim the nails.
    
    	Keep at it EVERY week, and before long they won't might it at
    all.
    
    
    		Paul (and Pixie and Dixie)

    it's also important to use a cat claw trimmer, rather than
    people nail clippers (they tend to split claws) or dog claw trimmers
    (just too darn big).
    
    once you and the cats get in the habit, it is usually not a very big
    deal. (unless you have a squirmy cat like Dundee...) Even Jesse
    gets his claws trimmed...

    Yes, Dundee - king of the squirm.  He even does it to the judges!
    Amazing little fellow.
    
    Seriously tho, its not difficult and will make it a whole lot more
    comfortable when your cats are sitting in your lap expressing their
    pleasure by "patty pawing" your leg

    Does anyone have any suggestions for full length curtains?  I have
    two cats and one kitten, I had no problem with training the two
    cats to use the scratching post (kittie condo) and they never
    bothered the curtains.  Well my newest addition is about 6 months
    and is a major terror clawing the couch and destroying my curtains!!
    I just put up my winter curtains saturday and this morning I found
    a huge pull already...
    
    I don't like the idea of declawing, but I just can't afford to replace
    my curtains every month!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Corine, Cam, Sheena, Sinead, and terror kittie Ozzy!
    
    BTW:  I wrote about my terror kittie a while back, concerning him
          nursing on one of my other cats.  Well he's stoped, now he
          nurse's on my 130 pd Rottie's neck!  (its hysterical to see!)

    re: .27  Ah yes, the "terrible twos of kittenhood".  They last
    til the cat is round 1-2 yrs old.  I suggest that you keep up
    some inexpensive curtains for a bit, trim his claws and continue
    to train him.  The chances are very very good that as he matures
    he will calm down a bit (especially once neutered) and will become
    more well behaved.  Its been my experience that cats will mimic
    each other so hopefully he'll copy the more well-behaved cats.
    (Of course, it has been known to work the other way)  ;-)
    
    Mao was a little terror when we got he at 5 months. But as time
    passed she calmed down an at 10 yrs old is a VERY well behaved
    cat and a wonderful friend.
      Good luck and remember persistence pays off.
      Nancy DC
    

    I have chintz curtains and mini blinds, and none of the cats even
    bother to try and claw them.
    
    Jo

    
    
    You guys say it easy to trim cat claws but I can't see my cat sitting
    still and letting me trim there claws without scratching hte living
    daylights out of me.   

    It's easy if you've had a chance to work with the cat since they
    were young.  My cat, Carrie, came to me as almost an adult and I
    don't know what they did to her in her other home but she is a holy
    terror when it comes to things that my other cats think is normal.
    
    Clipping claws has been a major effort with Carrie as she hates
    to have her feet touched and she doesn't like the position that
    is easiest for me to hold her in.  I have had to work with her on
    this for months and she is just now starting to be semi-cooperative.
    She spends some time in "kitty jail" (the shower stall) in between
    claws.  She needs a cool-down period before I can continue and having
    her be isolated lets her know that her behavior is unacceptable.
    
    I make a point of holding her in the position she doesn't like too
    well occasionally and giving her lots of love and petting so that
    she knows that not just bad things happen to her when I hold her
    that way.  When I'm done clipping claws I always praise her and
    tell her how good she was (even though she made 2-3 trips into kitty
    jail).  She is definitely improving.  She used to growl and go for
    my face with both paws and bite me.  Now she squirms and growls
    but knows better than to go for my face.  I think the time she actually
    got a claw stuck in my check and was severly scolded and put in
    kitty jail while I patched my face has mellowed her on the that
    part of her response.
    
    Jan

My cats' claws need to be trimmed every 3 weeks.  When Shamus makes
clicking noises walking on the linoleum and Daisy gets her talons
stuck in things, it is definitely time.

My strategy is to lure one of the cats into the downstairs bathroom
and close the door behind them.  This isn't very difficult since my
original 2 expect treats when they go in there (they somehow forget
the various tortures I inflict on them when in there).  This week
I started with Daisy and the first step is to wrap her in a large
towel with a safety pin at the neck.  Then I sit on the floor with
her lying in my lap and go to work.  Daisy hates to be held so the
towel is important.  For some reason that only her one neuron can
fathom, as soon as the safety pin is in place she thinks she is
paralyzed and I do not disabuse her of this notion.  I can work
fairly quickly with her and the only challenge is separating the
claws from the tufts of hair between her toes.  When done, the
towel comes off and Daisy gets lots of kitty treats - which is 
the only part of the whole experience she remembers.

Shamus, who is normally a much more docile cat than Daisy, is a holy
terror when it comes to claw trimming.  He also gets the towel treatment
complete with safety pin but he squirms and growls and tries to bite or
swipe at me.  This week I discovered a new way to keep him from maiming
me.  I usually have to give him kitty treats after every paw because
he gets so unhappy.  This time, I left one of the treats out and he kept
staring at it.  In thinking how good it would feel to be in his belly
(this cat is *highly* motivated by food) he forgot what I was doing
and just kept his eyes on the prize.  I was able to finish quickly
and to reward him with lots of Pounce.

Orson, the latest addition to my household, is 14 months old.  The
biggest problem is luring him into the bathroom but I've found that
hairball medicine, which he loves, will get him in there.  I don't need
the towel for him - just hold him and do it.  He squirms, but the biggest
problem with him is he doesn't like being restrained - the claws don't
seem to bother him at all.

The trick is finding what works for your individual cat and then lots
of rewards afterwards.

Pam

    Our crew is pretty good about claw trimming.  Of course we've been
    doing it for years.  I  must admit that its much easier if Jack
    helps.  He holds and I trim.  The worst any of them has ever done
    is squirm.  No scratches and definitely no bites.
      
      In fact, the only times any of my cats has bitten or threaten
    to bitten were -1. When I tried to show Mao.  She became increasingly
    more upset and when I reached in to get her for the third ring,
    she snapped at me.  and 2. During baths Bumpytail will sort of
    gnaw on who'sever wrists are closest.
      Neither occurance was a serious attempt to bite.
      Nancy DC who figures she must be lucky.
    

    Also keep in mind that even if you have them declawed, you will
    need to trim the back claws.  Becky is our "problem" cat for claw
    clipping, but the vet showed us a way to hold her that really does
    work, but needs two people.  I hold her feet and Randy clips the
    back claws.  I'll try to describe the hold...with the cat facing
    my left and on its side (or a close facimile :-) ) I hold the front 
    paws with the forefinger on the outside, the middle finger between
    the paws and the ring finger and little finger on the other side
    and the thumb around the two paws together.  You do the same for
    the back legs with the other hand.  Using a gardening glove minimizes
    biting.  Of course being stubborn also helps (Becky, you will get
    clipped [said with clinched teeth] :-) ).  Then of course comes
    the treats.  
    
    Bernice
    Mother_of_Trouble_Becky_&_Velcro

	I just wait until mine are asleep to do their claws.  I've made 
	it a point since we got them to handle their paws as often as 
	possible.  They like to sleep on my lap while I'm watching TV 
	at night, so I make sure I keep the clippers handy.  Sometimes 
	they wake up and pull their paw away, but I just wait until 
	they're asleep again and continue.  I'm all done before they 
	even know what happened!

	Paula  (Snuggles and Peaches)

    As cats get older it becomes more difficult for them to sharpen
    and take care of their claws.  Scratching requires strength and
    mobility in the back end that many cats lose with age.  When that
    happens you M*U*S*T clip their claws for them.  Therefore, it is
    a very good idea to get your cat used to the trimming when they're
    young.
      Nancy DC