Conference misery::feline_v1

	Re: .0 

	I too have a cat like that.   There is absolutely no way to
	dicipline him, although he is smart enough now to do his dirty
	deeds out of sight (he forgets I can hear him though).  If
	he hears me coming, he bolts from the scene of the crime.

	Most of his naughty antics I can handle but clawing furniture 
	was one habit that I wouldn't tolerate so I had him declawed.
	You may find yourself in this sort of position too.

	Your cat is still young thus more likely to get into trouble.
	Even my naughty one has calmed down with age.  If you are
	unable to catch the cat in the act to dicipline him, there isn't 
	much you can do.  I NEVER SEE T.K. on the counter but I sure
	as heck hear him jump off are I near the kitchen.   He is
	a very busy little kitty, into absolutely everything new.
	
	I brought home a wreath that I had made and it had a large bow
	on it.  The streamers on the bow were just too much for him
	and I eventually had to cut the streamers.  I have a silk
	floor plant which makes for great hiding and it makes great
	noises if you jump through it.  And that hole in my boxspring
	is getting larger all the time as he explores in the middle
	of the night.  My feather boa from my Halloween costume made
	a great bird!  Luckily I caught him as he was making off with
	his capture!  The toilet scrubber brush is a favorite.  Whenever
	it is not locked up, T.K. is lugging it around the house.
	Dried flowers have to be kept in a locked room, as well as
	bookshelves with valuable knick-knacks.  And if you leave your
	jewelry out... T.k. steals it!  Really, that cat is like having
	your own pet monkey!  He is in to absolutely everything.  I
	find it amusing now, but if he had claws, I wouldn't be
	laughing.

	Karen

First, it is unusual that your other cat responds to the whack on the butt
with the paper towel tube....It is rare for a cat to do so.  The behavior
you generally dislike in cats is instinctive behavior - it would be just
fine in the woods, but plays hell on wheels in the urban home....keeping
that in mind, look around at his usual "naughties" and determine how you
can replace undesirable behavior or neutralize undesirable behavior...
Some suggestions:

Go to the pet store and buy a cat scratch post with a surface much like
your speaker fronts - place it in front of the most abused speaker and
put a barrier in front of any other speakers so the cat cannot reach
them.  Rub catnip oil on the scratch post.  Take the cat and physically
rub his paws on the scratch post while praising him.  Provided the cat
really likes that particular surface alot, and provided the scratch post
you buy is sturdy enough to feel "safe" when used, you will probably be
able to move the post in a few days and have the cat "follow" to the
desirable location....however, I will add the one caveat - cats ALSO
scratch surfaces in the process of scent marking their territory with
scent glands in their paws...you cannot smell it, but they can.
In some cases where that instinct is strong - and the cat "marks" all
over the house - you may find the only solution to save furniture is to
declaw or completely restrain the cat when you are not right there
to watch.  Try the scratching post idea and if you must, consider
declawing.

Re: getting on counter tops....He knows thats where food comes from
and it is surprising you have convinced the other cat to NOT go
up there to check it out.  You might try whacking the counter BEHIND
the cat, making a loud noise, each time you catch him.  You might also
place mousetraps, UPSIDE DOWN (VERY IMPORTANT), on the counter and
cover them with a cloth or towel.  When the cats jumps up, the snapping
and jumping action might deter him...It might not.  I gave up and simply
yell when I see one up there and ALWAYS scrub the counter before cooking.
The same for the tables in the house.  I keep sanitary that way and the
cats stay off the counter when I'm around...stalemate.

Cats are nocturnal by nature and will be active for at least some portion
of the night.  As the cat gets older he will settle down.  Until then,
I suggest you restrain the cat away from your bedroom at night if he
bothers you....with food, water, and litter box where he is - midnight
may be his most hungry, thirsty, and "I gotta go" time of the day....
it was for one of mine....now I leave kibble down at night and Sam
feeds then, uses the box, and plays with the other cats - all between
the hours of midnight and 4:00 in the morning!  He is a rug the rest of
the time...8^}

Also, hint I learned from long experience - place the water dish away
from the food dish....for some reason, they prefer it that way and if
they drink enough water, you have less urilogical problems.

		Good luck and enjoy your cats...

    
    
    Don't worry, Jake will soon have you trained to perfection.  Panther
    also likes to play with things that I would just as soon she left
    alone, like gold jewlery, toilet paper, anything soft and wooley
    etc.  But she now has me well trained to put these things where
    she can't possibly get to them.  (Like the safe deposit box, or
    the bathroom vanity or a locked closet!)
    
    She was a real hellion as a kitten, but now as a grand old lady
    of 4 & 1/2 she has settled down.  But yes she has also learned to
    do her mischief when we are not looking, we hear her jump off of
    the counters a lot.  But with such a cute face and an innocent
    experssion... sigh.  She's just got her Mummie wrapped around her
    cute little paws, and I love every minute of it!! :-)
    
    Feline trained,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
    

    At 4 months, I think you'll have limited success with discipline.
    Which is NOT to say you shouldn't try, please continue.  The
    suggestions in .2 are excellent.  I would add that you should get
    more than one scratching post.  Find one he likes and then get
    several.  Put them in all different parts of the house so when
    he gets the urge to scratch, he won't have to go far.  
    
    Also, at 4-5 months old he'll begin teething.  Give him something
    to chew.  I'm not sure exactly what to suggest as I forgot about
    that with Dundee and he chewed the corners of pillows and any
    belts I left on the floor.  (These cats are going to make a good
    housekeeper out of me yet!)  
    
    Perhaps it might be best to restrict Jake's movements when you aren't
    around to discipline him, until he demonstrates that he's learning.
    I've always found positive reinforcement to be far more effective
    than punishment - by that I mean Praise him to the hilt when he
    uses that scratching post you get him and just distract him from
    scratching the other stuff.  I'm in the process of teaching Jesse
    (an x-stray) what to scratch.  He's doing very well.  Of course,
    he has 5 other cats to watch, and they're very good at scratching
    the cat furniture only. 
    
    Finally, Sue is right about him calming down as he gets older.
    Mao was an absolute terror when young.  Now she's just a little
    hellion (Turned 10 in July) and VERY smart.  She's quite well
    behaved and  a great companion.  She'll even walk on a leash 
    and do all sorts of stuff with us.  
    
    Good luck with Jake and don't give up.
      Nancy DC
    

    RE .1
    
    Karen,
    
    When I was reading that reply I thought you were talking about Bandit.
    
    I didn't realize Bandit had taught T.K. his cute little antics.
    
    
    RE .4
    
    Sue,
    
    Do I get to tell Panther what you said about her????
    
    
    Sandi *mom to THUNDER, LIGHTNING, STORM & DEJAVU too.
    
    

    Nancy,
    
    Why do you feel that the base noter will have limited success teaching
    a four month old kitten not to scratch?  Is it the age?  Or that
    the kitten has been getting away with it for a long time?  I am
    just curious since I don't normally sell a kitten until it is four
    months old.
    
    Jo

Re: Sandi... Bandit is the most well behaved cat now!  T.K. is the maniac!
The only naughty things Bandit does is tip over the bathroom trash to get
the cotton balls, chew plastic, and beat up the other cats when he sees
a feline visitor outside.  Hard to believe that Bandit is the once famous 
paper maniac (but then again, no claws means he can't rip up paper anymore).
He is such a cuddle bunny now!

Karen

    In our house we resorted to the old C.A.T. (cat adjustment too)..
    a spray bottle with a direct spray filled with water.  When the
    cats scratched where they were not supposed to a quick squirt soon
    alerted them to the fact it was best to confine this natural scratching
    to the jute floor mat or the post!
    
    gailann

    as for counter tops...  if you polish them with kitchen wax the
    cats will soon realise that this slippery surface is not the most
    comforting place in town! ;-)

    Maybe it has more to do with the relationship, than with the
    age of the cat.  I just found that Dundee just didn't respond
    to us for about a month - Not that he wasn't affectionate, he
    sure was, but rather that we didn't really communicate.  I'd 
    tell him NO and physically move him away from what he was doing
    and he'd just run back there as if he hadn't heard me at all.
    
    It took about a month or two before he started to "notice" me
    and what I was saying/doing.  Older cats seem to already have
    experience with that sort of thing and understand the concept
    of discipline.  But then again, Dundee still does exactly
    what he wants sometimes.  "In the house" means run like H*(&
    in the other direction because Mommy is about to take you
    inside. (We use leashes)
    

    re:  .8
    
    thanx for the kitchen wax idea.  my stella is a notorious counter top
    habituee.  she knowz darned well she is *not* supposed to be up there,
    but doez it anyway--even if it meanz the penalty box!
    
    maybe if she goez sliding across the counter once or twice, she might
    "look before she leapz"...!
    
    diane, stella, stanley
    

    You know, you guys should stop complaining!!  At least you HAVE
    counter tops in your kitchen!!   ;-)
    

    Gang,
    
         Thanks so much for all the replies. You guys had touched on a
    number of things Anne and I have already implemented, but I had
    ommitted from the base note. Random thoughts follow:
    
    We DO have scratching posts within convenient reach. Jake uses those,
    and everything else in sight.
    
    We're big on the positive reinforcement. When Jake is in the process of
    re-upholstering our sofa, we issue a strong 'no', put him on one of his
    clawing workstations, stroke him nicely, and issue an encouraging
    nice jake, or a variant thereof.
    
    I LOVE the waxed floor idea. Gotta try it!
    
    Sorry about your non-existant countertop, Nancy. If it's any solace,
    we don't have much of a counter top, just enough for the cat to
    illegally occupy. ;^)
    
    I just opened a fortune cookie; it says that a declawed cat(s) is in my
    future. I hate this option, but this clawing bit has gotten way out of
    hand. We'll see if this subsides after they are fixed, and make the
    decision then.
    
    Teething wasn't a problem for Cuda, and doesn't appear to be a problem
    for Jake. They are kept well supplied with stuff to gnaw on.
    
    Thanks again for all the input, 
    
    David, Anne, Cuda, and Jake.
    

    If you are thinking of having them declawed, you should probably have
    it done at the same time as the spay or neuter....that way they only
    have to put them out once.
    
    cin
    

    I have implemented a new cat adjustment tool for my two new kittens.
    
    I can do a very realistic hiss (3 varieties for different occasions)
    and when the kittens start to go where they do not belong, I hiss and
    they run away from that particular area.  
    
    Because they were used to a mother cat disciplining this way, they seem
    to react quite well.

    I have been known to hiss at our gang on occasion.  It does work,.
    
    More often I growl or hiss at the sight of a fur coat!

    Hissing works with my guys too.
    

    I'm another kitty mom that hisses at her kids.  Usually works pretty
    well with Bailey and Amelia but Carrie seems resistant to it.  She is 
    also resistant to C.A.T. training to so I get to have alot of fun 
    watching her jump and run and then come back for more.  Oh, I forgot...
    this is supposed to be discipline not fun and games for mom.
    
    Jan

    Cat videos ... why not cat cassettes?  You could record your hissing in
    assorted meanings and peddle the sound effects to people too
    embarrassed to try hissing at their cats themselves!  Or those looking
    for a more expert hiss than they feel capable of ....
    
    					-- Ed

re: hissing at the cats

My roommate and I groom all kitties with the flea comb once a week so we
make sure no fleas have arrived...this is also toenail trimming time.
Needless to say, nobody wants to play - even though they are all brushed
and combed daily, it's different on Sunday because it happens when WE
are ready, not on the individual cat's whim.  Marge holds the cats and
I comb or snip....Hannah, my very vocal flame lynx-point, tries to bluff
us into letting her go by hissing,spitting, growling and making ugly faces
which Marge returns in kind....this is fine when we are the only folks
around - I'm used to the girls having their squabbles and just keep on
working, but when my friend Bob dropped in for a weekend...

I was just getting the comb to work on Hannah and Marge was holding
her (hissing, spitting, and growling back at her with great enthusiasm)
when I looked up to see Bob watching Marge and Hannah with the most
confused look on his face....

    I will have to think about a hissing vcr tapee with the counters listed
    with each hiss so that people could get to the correct hiss right away.
    
    re -.1  I know how you feel.  Since I am alergic to cats, it is hard to
    explain why I just added two.....  I tell them I never said I was
    sane....
    
    Hey, if a pet rock can net the maker over $1M, why not try it ....
    probablay stands a greater change of working than megabucks which is
    my other plan.
    
    Cathy

    I have seen records out there that have music for cats on them.
    I saw some at a cat show once.
     N