Conference misery::feline_v1

    
    First of all I would like to say, it was very nice to you to care
    for this cat..I hope there is more people in the world that would	
    do the same!
    
    I would defently take the cat to the Vet for a check up! and give
    her all her shots (what is her name?)
    
    Milk is not good for alot of cats, my Siamese cant have milk, but
    my Tabby can, but I still give my Tabby just a *smiggin* water
    seems to do just fine!
    
    If you cat allready goes out side, why dont you want to keep her
    outside?  if you want her inside, then I think you should put
    the kitty box, where it is most convient for you and your kitty!
    I have my box upstairs (where my cats spend most of there time, 
    plust they sleep w/ me and the box is nice and close for them)
    also when I have company to visit its not noticeable (witch is
    nice)
    
    What kind of box..well the full hooded boxes are nice, they dont
    have spill over, everything stays inside and the hood easily
    comes off to clean..
    
    the Pet Source in Maynard, Mass has a new kitty litter!  I dont
    remember the name, but..it is real neet!  when your cat wets
    the litter absorbes the wet in such a way, that the wetness is
     like lifted out and easy to pick out..so the wet hardens..you'd
    have to see it..maybe some one eles can elerbrate a bit
    
    hope this help
    Louisa

    
    'ello,
    
    I cant see that you are doing anything wrong,I would say
    let the cat continue to do her doings outside though,why change
    unless youre in a flat!!   :-)
    
    My only advise is;
    
    TOTHEVETTOTHEVETTOTHEVETVETVETTOTHEVETTOTHEVETTOTHEVETVETVET..ETC
    
    ;-)
    
    PHIL
    
    

    The vet can tell you if your cat is "fixed".  If your cat is not,
    it would be in yours and the cat's best interests to get this done.
    A checkup and immunizations is HIGHLY recommended.  Milk is ok for
    a treat, but should not be used as a water substitute.  Some cats
    cannot digest milk easily.  Kitties need a supply of fresh water.
    Brand of food is a controversial subject, but wet and dry combined
    is a good idea, as long as your cat is bright-eyed, has a healthy
    coat and is not too fat/skinny.  Avoid feeding your cat tablescraps.
    
    Litterboxes that have hoods keep the ODOR under control (we have
    a boodabox with replaceable filter on top).  It makes a big difference.
    Location is kitty's and your choice.  Litter will scatter when kitty
    hops out, so keep that in mind.
    
    Sounds like you are on the right track.  I hope you enjoy each others'
    company!  Most people who hate cats probably don't know any
    personally...
    
    Good luck,
    
    Cathy

    
    REF: Table Scraps.
    
    My husband and I are new to cats too - We have had Ninja now for 
    2 months, and she was 9 weeks old then.
    
    The thing that we disagree about the most is the following:
    
    Ninja eat Science Diet for kittens. However, when I am having dinner, she
    would come to me sniffing around, getting in my lap, pleading looks...
    I am sure all of you know the number, and I can't stand the pathetic
    look in her face when she wants some of my food and I don't give her.
    So I give in and cut little pieces of chicken breast on a little plate
    and give it to her, and she is very happy.
    
    My husband on the other hand refuses to give her any, so she doesn't
    even try with him (why should she bother with him, since she got me
    twisted around her little paws..:-) )
    
    Anyway, his feeling on this is that she won't get a balanced diet if I
    feed her anything else but her science diet food. Her food is available
    for her all day).
    
    So my question is: Does giving her a little bit to eat (like white
    tuna, or chicken) affect her diet badly, and what is a balanced diet
    for a cat.
    
    I tell you...I can't take the look in her eyes when I don't give her
    some of what I am eating...
    
    Any advice would help..
    
    Thanks
    
    Nisreen
    

    re : -1
    
    Sorry I neglected to say that I am (obviously ) a new noter to this
    file. I have started reading it recently, and think it is great. 
    
    Before we got our Ninja, I couldn't understand what's the big deal about
    cats that people actually had a notesfile to discuss them. Now I
    understand...:-)
    
    Nisreen
    
    
    

    
    Hi Nisreen!! Nice to see you in here!
    
    And congratulations on having been adopted by a kitty, too :^}  My
    feeling is that you can't be hurting her by giving her little bits of
    food from the table - spoiling her, maybe, but who doesn't spoil their
    cats just a *little* bit?  We have three Siamese who go into absolute
    snit-mode if we dare to have a pizza without sharing some of it with
    them.  We have to be careful, because if we let them have too much,
    they return it to the carpet at some later time - yuk!  But if we give
    them just tiny bits, they seem to be happy and their tummies don't
    rebel (phew!).
    
    You're absolutely right, though - we do get trained!
    
    Sandy
    (and Smudge and Tas and Jenny and C.C.)
               

    
    
    I didn't know you were supposed to *avoid* table scraps.  Maybe
    what she meant is not to substitute table scraps for regular cat
    food - I know thats bad!
    
    F.

    Regarding tablescraps:  People in the habit of feeding the cat from
    the table are sometimes tempted to give their cats raw meat such as
    chicken and pork when preparing dinner.  This can be just as harmful
    to your cat as it is to you.   Feeding your cats from the table
    during dinner encourages them to hang around and beg each time a meal
    is served.  Some cats are even inclined to STEAL from the counter or
    plate (and you know who you are, kitties!), getting themselves into
    trouble because they don't know better.  After dinner, some people
    don't know enough NOT to give their cats a chicken, turkey, etc.
    carcass.  Small bones and bone splinters can lodge in your cat's
    esophagus or intestines, etc. causing great pain and even death.
    
    All told, there is no reason your cat should have tablescraps if
    it already is being fed a catfood with all the good stuff in it.
    Right??

    
    
    Re:  .8 So true, table scraps should never be a substitute for a
    good balanced cat food.  But a treat now and then (or every night
    at dinner,) isn't going to harm your pet.  
    
    As for begging at the table, if that behavior is not acceptable
    at your huose, don't permit it.  If you don't mind, what is the
    harm.  You see I have a black furry napkin (Panther) at meal times :-) my
    husband doesn't care and she doesn't beg, (she knows that she will
    get her treats later) she just likes the company.
    
    When we have company over for dinner, we just put the cats in a
    room with  toys water etc if we don't want them underfoot during
    the meal.
    
    It's all in what wou and your family will tolerate.  I'm a firm
    believer in set your own rules for your pets.  But once you have
    be consistant and be sure the rest of the household is too.
    
    Who cares who trains whom, as long as you all are happy!
    
    Feline trained and Trainer,
    
    Sue & Panther & Spot
    
    
    

    
    Well, I guess training isn't really the issue since Ninja already
    trained us well..:-)   , and it is fine with myself and otherhalf for
    Ninja to do pretty much whatever she likes..two softies what can I
    say...
    
    The real concern is: does it really impact the balance of her diet?
    that is really the only issue, actually I do also worry that she might
    not want her cat food anymore and wait for the good stuff later..
    
    Regarding chicken, bones...etc.....I am very careful about these
    things, and I don't even feed her chicken skin, uncooked meats, and I
    cut the food very small (no bones)..and she loves it.
    
    Funny about having company over: I noticed that when we have company
    over for dinner or whatever, she hangs somewhere far away from us, and
    doesn't even approach me for food when we are having our dinner. 
    
    
    Nisreen
    
    PS: Hi Sandy!! nice to see you in this notesfile..it's been a
        while !
    

    re: .0  WELCOME TO FELINE!!!  And I think its wonderful that
    you took this abandoned kitty into your home.  Strange how
    cats have a way of adopting us :-)
    
    To answer your questions:
        - How can I tell if she has been "fixed"?
        - should I take her to the vet for a complete check up?
    
    I agree with Phil....To the Vet..to the vet..to the Vet Vet Vet!
    S/he'll be able to tell you if she's fixed.  If there's any doubt
    you shouldn't let her outside as she can get pregnant if not spayed.
    
    If she isn't spayed, get it done ASAP.  If money is a problem, I
    have applications for low cost spay certificates.  Send me mail
    with your mailstop and I'll send one to you.  
    
        - I feed her half moist half dry cat food , is that OK?

    While there's a great deal of controversy surrounding the exact
    brands of food, I think there's agreement that 1/2 moist and 
    1/2 dry food is fine.
    
            - to drink, I give her water and ocasionally milk. I was
          told that milk is not so good for cats, is that true?
    Some cats have trouble digesting milk and cream.  If she does
    you'll know it once you put a litterbox in the house.  It generally
    shows up as diahreah.  If she doesn't react that way and you want
    to give her a SMALL amount as a treat, then that's fine.  I give
    Mao about a tablespoon of cream every morning when I make our
    coffee.  
      Make sure she always has plenty of water available.
    
        - what kind of litterbox should I get? (so far she always
          relieved herself outside) and where should I put it?

    I disagree with the person who said if she's going outside now
    why change it.  Its impossible to monitor things like diahreah
    or some of the symptoms of FUS (Feline Urologic Syndrome - cystitis)
    if you don't  have a box in the house.  Also, my vet always wants
    a stool sample when I take the crew in for their checkups.  How
    are you going to get one if the can never goes indoors??
    
    re: Types - Well, we have a couple of "litter flingers" so I prefer
    the covered boxes.  Besides, who wants to look at that stuff  :-)
    
    BTW - our current cat count is SIX.  3 Shelter cats, 2 purebreds
    and one now-ex-stray.  Except for Jesse (the stray) who is under-
    going a change of life style at the moment - all are indoor cats
    and four are leash trained.  They only go out with supervision.
    The issue of indoor/outdoor is a real HOT one and your choice
    depends on your feelings and on your environment.  Our home is
    much too urban to let cats run.  I'm not going to get into the
    discussion here - there are plenty of notes already.  If you want
    to discuss it via EMAIL feel free to contact me.
        
    Finally, A great place to pick up cat supplies and information is
    at a cat show.  There happens to be one in Braintree,Ma this weekend.
    If you live close enough and would like info send me mail.  Otherwise,
    I'm sure there are shows in your area.  Pick up Cat Fancy or Cats
    magazines.  They list the upcoming shows.  Or send me mail and I'll
    look them up for you.
    
      Again, welcome and please introduce your little lady in note
    #2.
      Nancy DC
    
    
    

    	Okay, okay, I'll put in my .02 worth about milk.  I've been
    reading this file for about 3 weeks and no-one really says much
    about what a cat/kitten should drink.  I moved into a house on
    18-Aug-89 and a co-worker asked if I'd like a kitten (or 2) since
    I had a house.  After thinking it over, I decided to get 2 so that
    they could keep each company while I'm at work (I am alone and there
    is no-one home all day).  I all glad that I got 2 of them little
    rascals and as this notefile suggests, they do train you.
    
    	I have tried leaving water in a dish and food in a 2 dish dish,
    but the cats don't touch the stuff.  I let that go for 3 days and
    I decided that milk is what they want, so I gave it to them.  Almost
    everyday, I have to add more milk to their dish, so in my case,
    milk is the one.  I don't notice any diarrhea or anything, so I
    guess that it is okay, however, if anyone out there can tell me
    anything different about giving my kittens water, I guess that I'll
    continue with milk.
    
    	I am finding out that kittens certainly do have a way of training
    me, but I have my c.a.t. sprayer handy and when they are bad, spratt.
    The lady that gave me my kittens said that they were born around
    the end of June, so around Thanksgiving Pixie (male) and Dixie (female)
    will be taking a trip to the vet for spaying, neutering, shots,
    and checked for worms.
    
    	I was also going to have them de-clawed, but after reading the
    many notes about it, I changed my mind (I live near a large wooded
    area, and if they ever got out of the house, I would like them to
    be able to fend for themselves).  This notesfile is great and I
    look forward to continued reading (maybe even putting in my .02
    worth - or in this case .04).

    
    
    I hope you have water out too, along with the milk!!
    
    Cats need water like people need water.
    
    You may not see them drink it much, but they are smaller than
    us, they drink less, its still very important though!
    
    F.

    I've read, in this notes file, that some cats don't like their
    water near their food.  You said you are using a 2 dish feeding
    dish which would mean the water would be right next to the food.
    Try using a separate bowl and putting it in another place.
      Nancy DC

    Nancy,
    
    	re.14
    
    	I have 2 dishes set up for my babies, a single dish for milk,
    and a double dish setup with 2 different kinds of soft food in them.
    The male is a pig and seems to always want what the female eats,
    so I put food in both sides and they each have their own dish to
    eat from.  I give them about a 10 ounce serving before I go to work
    and I give them a little more when I get home (and they are hungry
    as they are meowing up a storm when I get in the house).  Currently
    I have the little tykes in the basement during the day and at night
    so I give them hard food before I go to bed, but when I get home
    the little darlings are free to run around the living room, dining
    room, kitchen and hallway, and they run upstairs to the bedrooms,
    but I have them closed off for now.
    
    	I tried to let the little guys sleep in the bedroom, but you
    know kids, they just wanted to play, so I'll try again when they
    are a little older.  Getting back to original question though, should
    I cut back on the milk and add water to it or what?  I gather by
    this notesfile, Nancy, that you are really into cats, so I am hoping
    that you can help me out.
    
    	Thanks.
    
    			Paul

    I know that cats, like all animals, need a good supply of water.
    I have always thought that it was undesireable to give them alot
    of milk.  Of course, I'm giving Mao cream which is much higher
    in fat. 
      Our cats drink a great deal of water.  as to whether or not there
    really is a problem with letting them free-feed on milk I don't
    know - ask your vet.  
      What you don't want to happen is to teach the cats to drink only
    milk, because in the summer you won't be able to just leave milk
    out for them all day - it will spoil - and you don't want them 
    becomming dehydrated.  
    
    re: feeding - sounds to me like you're doing it right.  
    
    When the kittens get older they'll calm down at night.  Or you
    can try the method a friend of mine used.  When her kitten would
    wake her up she'd lock her in the bathroom for the rest of the
    night.  The kitten wanted to sleep with her so gradually she
    figured out that if she played and woke mommy up she'd spend
    the rest of the time in the bathroom.
      Depends on whether or not you want your kitties sleeping with
    you - I love it.
      
    Sorry I don't have more info about milk.  I can tell you to good
    things about water, but I dont know any bad things about milk.
      Nancy DC
    

    One other point.  My cat book had some really interesting things
    to say about finicky cats.  Basically it said that they are
    made, not born, and that the critical time for developing tastes
    is during kittenhood.  So make sure the kittens get a variety
    of foods and plenty of water.  You could end up teaching them to
    prefer milk to water.  
      Nancy DC
    

    Most cats cannot digest Lactic Acid (ingredient in milk) and it
    can cause them severe problems.  If your cats seem to be tolerating
    it well, then great!  But, as Nancy mentioned, they still need water
    on a daily basis.  Given the choice between milk and water, they
    will of course choose the milk.  It has protein in it and that is
    what attracts them.  Also, as your kittens grow, the milk could
    cause more problems for them.  It would be best not to substitute
    milk for water in their diet.
    
    Jo

    Nancy,
    
    	Good news!  Sunday, I was in my basement working (and playing
    with the kitties) when I watched Dixie going over to the water dish.
    She looked at it a few minutes and then she drank from it.  That's
    great!  A little while later, she was back at the dish again, but
    this time she was playing with the water, so I looked in the dish
    and a crumb of potting soil had fallen into the dish.  She was trying
    to get it out so that she could get a drink.  Well, I had to reward
    her so I took both their dishes and washed them out (done on a weekly
    basis, or whenever they are bad enough) and gave them fresh food
    and water.  All's well that ends well I guess.
    
    	Oh more good news.  In the past, in order to sit and pet my
    babies, I had to physically pick them up and put them on my lap,
    well not last night.  I got a fire going in the fireplace and I
    started watching the Disney Sunday night show, when Pixie hopped
    up on my stomach and he picked out a comfortable spot and laid
    down (he is the braver of the 2 and he is getting more relaxed now).
    Well, Dixie, who had stopped playing a few minutes earlier, decided
    that it was time that she checked out the lunk on the couch, so
    up she came and the 2 of them fought for a comfortable spot on my
    stomach and legs.  It is cute to see the 2 of them head-on-head
    laying them purring like crazy.
    
    	Thanks Nancy and talk to ya later.
    
    				Paul

    Hey Paul - wait until they reach full size!!  You'll really have
    a lapfull.
      Nancy DC
    

    re: 19
    
    Just a suggestion - you might consider changing their water
    twice a day and washing their bowls every day.  Might keep
    your kitties healthier.

    	My babies have been fine so far, but it wouldn't hurt to wash
    their bowls a little more frequently, it will ensure that the little
    darlings keep healthy.  The guys do a good job of "cleaning their
    plates" already!!!  Thanks for the suggestion, though.
    
    
    

    Finally, the answer you've all been waiting for...
    
    The reason that milk should not be substituted for water is because
    when milk is digested, it becomes a solid in the stomach, with only
    the only the extracted fluids left to hydrate the organs, wash away
    all other fats and impurities in the digestive system from milk and
    their regular food (assuming milk is the only thing the cat is drinking).
    
    If the cat were drinking water instead, the water would remain in it's
    full liquid state in the stomach, allowing the water to hydrate the
    bodily organs and wash away impurities in the digestive system.
                                                                           
    Naturally, if your cat "tolerates" (not a good word, since most
    cats LOVE milk) milk but also drinks water, this is fine.
                                                         
    Just for the record,
    
    Cathy

    I have a very good feline book that has finally explained to me
    why cats often refuse to drink their water.
    
    Cats have (as we all know) a highly developed sense of smell.  Well
    this highly developed sense ensures they smell any traces of detergent
    left on their dishes, all the chlorine in the water, let alone the
    other chemical smells water often has.  
    
    The strong smell of most cat food ensures any soap smells on the
    food dish is ignored however with the water dish this is not the
    case.  The author of my book points out that often cats will drink
    from the fish pond, a puddle, the bucket left outside that has
    collected bits of rain water.. etc.. this is because to the cat these
    are more normal smells that they can tolerate unlike chlorine and
    soap smells.
    
    The suggestions included in my books are:- 
    
    make sure you rinse, rinse and re-rinse your cat dishes.. keep an
    extra set so that one can 'air' while the other is being used to
    help the soap smells we can't smell but the cat can to vanish. 
    Also give your cat chemical free water if possible and just watch
    them go!  My cats tripled their water consumption when I stopped
    giving them tap water!  As my cats are also outdoor cats I have
    a big ceramic dish on the porch that I keep topped up.  This is
    their favourite water dish as it is outdoors and smells, what I
    assume, is natural to them.  If you have an indoor only cat that
    can not find water without soap or chlorine smells, bottled chemical
    free water on well rinsed and air dried dishes will really please
    them!
    
    gailann, mother to 10

    
    
    
    Yes..  I use spring water all the time for my kitties!!
    I always thought, if I drink it, they should too... but it makes
    sense that they wouldn't like the chemical smells of tap water..
    
    F.

    I couldn't figure out why my cats never seemed to drink any water
    until I read somewhere in this notes file about cats not liking
    their water dish by the food dish. (something about cats in the
    wild search for their water)  I went right home and moved the water
    dish into the bathroom at the back of the house. AMAZING!!  They
    now drink lots and lots of water.  I have to refill the dish 2 times
    a day!
    
    Kim

    	It's funny that you mention that (about the water dish near
    food), because last night, when the monsters were raising hell in
    the kitchen.  Let both jumped up on the sink and were drinking water
    out of a dish that I had put in there earlier, so I guess that I'll
    have to move their dish in the cellar.
    
    	Cats do train us!!!

    
    
    	Now I know why Sasha will only drink from the faucet,
    	or the water filter, or the tub or....
    

    
    speaking of water dishes this is a good place to tell you about
    my friend who has two dogs and four cats.  She has this enormous
    big metal dish for their water in her kitchen for her brood to drink
    from.. well seems her cats are into 'hunting' frogs from the back
    of her garden.. they bring them in and every time they do she finds
    this poor little petrified frog smack dab in the water dish!
    
    the amount of times she come into work after having to rescue the
    latest froggy from the water bowl!
    
    gailann

I am the originator of this topic (see .0). 

Thanks to this conference, I learned a great deal on cat care and
behavior. I was able to apply most of this knowledge on my cat "GATO".

BTW, contrary to my belief (in .0), GATO is not a female but rather
a male. A visit to the vet confirmed it. (even the vet had to look twice!)

GATO is now a healthy and very attractive cat. His long hair coat sitting
on an 18 pound frame makes him look like a little lion. He his the king
of my neigbourhood. (ask the other cats and dogs!)

Thanks again!

Gaetan and GATO.