Conference misery::feline_v1

    I am MAD!  I can't believe your neighbors can "rule" as to whether
    or not you may or may not own a pet.  I also live in a condo community
    and we are allowed to have pets, so long as they are properly cared
    for and do not destroy the common grounds.  Three of my cats are
    indoor/outdoor as the by-laws do not state that cats cannot roam
    the common grounds.  I have had one complaint in a year and a half
    by a person who does not like cats, therefore, wanted them removed
    from the common grounds.  The management company refused to intervene
    due to the fact that the complainer had no further complaints other
    than "she hates cats" and didn't want to see them in the community!
    Our management company was extremely nice to me, handling the situation
    as the complainer's problem and not mine.  They, and other folks
    in our development, were ready to jump to my defense if the
    "complainer" (we knew she was female) ever showed her face; luckily,
    she never confronted me and all has been well since.
    
    Why don't you convert both cats to indoors only and keep them? 
    If you own your property, surely your neighbors cannot complain
    about what goes on inside your home.  My guess is that they are
    complaining because they see your cats outside.  Would you be able
    to keep them if they were indoor only cats?
    
    I will go back and read your note again to ensure I didn't miss
    anything about their indoor/outdoor status.  I would hate to see
    you give them up and make your neighbors happy.  Why don't you find
    something that they're doing wrong or breaking rules with and do
    something similar.  You 'd be surprised how many things, besides
    pets, are disallowed in condo communities!
                 
    
    --Roberta (who can't believe people complain about "seeing" cats!)
    

    A condo association can set rules about whether pets are allowed.  
    HOWEVER, if you have had the animals for some time and the 
    association knew about it and did not protest, I believe they have
    lost their legal grounds to require you to get rid of the cats.  At least
    this is my recollection of similar situations.  You might want to check
    with a lawyer.  I would also keep them inside in case the neighbor
    might hurt them.  Cats adjust to inside-only living in a couple of weeks,
    you just have to tough it out.
    
    

    I agree... keep them indoors and try and make them indoor kitties only. 
    I moved from a condo 3 years ago and they had rules on the size and
    number of pets a unit owner could have.  The amount of pets was 1... 
    most cat owners had multiple cats (myself with 3) and no one ever
    complained.  Dogs had to be small, such as a Cocker Spaniel or Poodle
    size.  However, there were many owners who had Labs, German Shepherds,
    and one owner (renter?) had 2 Dobermans and a Rotweiler!  They moved
    out (after their Rotweiler ate my neighbors Peek-a-poo).  
    
    I would go over your condo documents again and maybe even consult a
    lawyer.  I came from the Ledgemere condos in Ashland and there were
    virtually no animal complaints there.  And up until the time I left,
    the condo bylaws still stated 1 pet and no larger than 20 square inches
    (if you can believe that!).  You neighbors are just being real jerks.
    
    Mary
    
    PS - if the management company has pass keys, change your locks!  
    

    I suggest you find a foster home for your kitties, fast.  Then fight
    it out with the neighbors.  If they knew you had cats when you moved
    in and did nothing until recently then I question their legal rights.
    In mass you can call the Mass Bar Referral service and be referred
    to a lawyer who handles your area of problem.  It used to cost
    0-$15 for a 1/2 hr consultation.  That gives you time to talk to
    the lawyer and decide if your case is worth persuing.
      In the meantime keep the cats in.
    
    We did manage to place a 12 yr old and a 4 yr old cat who were
    housemates.  It took a long time - far more than a week.  If you
    take your 10 yr old to a shelter the chances are very good that
    he will be put to sleep as unadoptable.  You might just be able
    to find a no kill shelter to take him, but I believe your chances
    are slim.  That doesn't mean don't try.
    
    I have posted the number for Kitty Angels elsewhere in this file
    - I don't have it with me right now - they are in Tyngsboro, I believe.
    There is also Bosler Humane in Barre, Ma.  Best of luck.
    
    Oh - try posting 3x5 cards at local grocery stores. You might just
    get lucky.  I did when I was trying to place Tymothee-Too, our
    2 yr old fostercat.
      Nancy DC
    
    

    Hi again.  Just thought I'd clarify a few things.
    
    Re: .1
    
    >>  Would you be able to keep them if they were indoor only cats?
    
    The management has notified us that unless the neighbors sign the
    permit request, we cannot keep the cats on the community grounds
    (Ridgefield Condominiums in Clinton, Mass.)  When moving in, we
    thought there were no "pet rules" - upon further examination we
    discovered that we were in error.  
    
    Our neighbors complained to the management, and the management has
    given us this week to find a new home or get the permit.  But our
    neighbors refuse to budge (Why?  We have no idea - It isn't as if
    the cats took a life or something.  Our neighbors are just purebred
    cat-haters.)
                                      
    Re: .2
    
    >>  HOWEVER, if you have had the animals for some time and the 
    >>  association knew about it and did not protest, I believe they
    >>  have lost their legal grounds to require you to get rid of the
    >>  cats.
    
    The management was unaware of the cats, but we've had them outside for
    over two years, so we either never saw the "rule" or had since 
    forgotten about it.  (I still don't remember anything in the contract,
    but it seems that they are correct and pets do need a permit.)
                 
    Interestingly enough, our neighbors still refuse to sign.  They
    say they "don't ever" want to live near cats, and they were the
    original people who called in complaints about them.  (These neighbors
    are relatively new, the cats were here before they were, although we
    are at fault for not having the permit.)
    
    As far as making the cats indoor-only, my SO doesn't want to deprive
    them of their freedom.  (I mean, they have so much _FUN_ outside!
    It's like jailing them to put them in a house with no fresh air,
    no trees, grass, etc.) 
    
    Re: .3
    
    >>  Your neighbors are just being real jerks.
    
    I must agree with you.  
    
    Re: .4 
    
    >>  I suggest you find a foster home for your kitties, fast.
    
    Any suggestions?  I'm looking through this notesfile title by title
    and haven't found any places yet.  Any keywords that I should be
    aware of?  Any pointers?  Help!
    
    3X5 cards at grocery stores is also an idea we'll look into. 
    
    But the original plea still remains.  If ANYONE knows someone or
    someplace for these kitties, please let me know.  Much thanks for
    all your help!
    
    Peace,
    
    - Steve
    
    
    >>  Cats adjust to inside-only living in a couple of weeks, you
    >>  just have to tough it out. 
    
    
    
    

    Re: .5
    
    Wouldn't "depriving them of their freedom" be much better
    than having them "put down"?????  
    
    
    Bob

    Re: .6
    
    Of course!  Don't get me wrong, we're not going to have them be
    forever "put to sleep" in any case.  But we received our "eviction
    warning" and keeping them is not possible, at least at this time.
    
    We need someplace or someone who would like them, who would let
    them be outside.  If desperate, we'll have to give them to a
    humane-type of society.  But I know that most of those places usually
    "clear out" their "unsellables" after an amount of time.  And we
    don't want that to happen.
    
    Sorry for the confusion.
           
    Peace,
    
    - Steve

    When they say they do not want the cats on community grounds,
    do they mean supervised or unsupervised?  You may be able to
    teach the cats to walk a leash.  I have an indoor/outdoor cat
    whom I trained to be indoor only when we moved to our condominium.
    I take her out on the leash and she likes it, although she will
    occasionally let me know it is not the choice she perfers.  However,
    I also know where Ridgefield is, having grown up in Clinton, and
    if you wanted to let your cats play outside, there really is no
    better place.  I can understand your dilema.
    
    Are there other people in the development with pets as well?
    Perhaps some of them would have suggestions which would help
    with the neighbors.  If the neighbors are complaining constantly,
    that does constitute a form of harassment, which you may want
    to address with the management company.  Do you have a neighbor
    on the other side of you?  If they are willing to sign, will
    that allow you to get a permit?
    
    I hope you can find good homes for your kitties.  And I hope
    your "neighbors" get theirs!
    
    Mary-Michael
  

    (I just realized that I'm constantly checking this file like a maniac,
    sorry for always replying to every singly reply!)
    
    Re: .8 
    
    They don't want animals on the grounds, supervised or unsupervised.
    We have neighbors on both sides and we got our "left-side" neighbors
    to gladly sign the permit agreement, but our "right-side" neighbors
    sent back the permit with a nasty note attached.  So we sent the
    form back to the administration building, where it was quickly sent
    back with a "Both neighbors MUST sign." followed by the ugly
    "nasty-gram".  
    
    As far as other people in the development with pets - yes, there
    are some fish and hamsters, but I've only seen a couple cats (indoor
    only) and one dog (leashed).  Luckily, these people have friendly
    neighbors.  
    
    The dilemma continues...
    
    Thanks for your continued help!  
    
    Peace,
    
    - Steve
    

    Steve,
    
    Any chance of your moving into another apt. there with "friendlier"
    neighbors who won't object to your cats?  You mentioned some tenants
    had pets but they had friendlier neighbors who didn't seem to mind.
    Maybe if there was such an opportunity, and you were lucky enough to
    find a temp. foster home for your cats while waiting, you could get to
    keep your cats and live next to nicer neighbors.
    
    If you decide to post an ad looking for a home for them, be sure to
    include a photo of them; pictures speak louder than words.
    
    Pat
    

    RE: .10
    
    Thanks for the suggestion - we're doing this, too.  We've contacted
    three other friends around here, but we got negative responses.
     
    The only thing, it seems, that we haven't tried is posting notes
    at the supermarket(s) around here.  Perhaps we'll have to resort
    to that...  
    
    General question:  Would anyone be able to point me to a "shelter"
    note?  I've checked the Yellow Pages and have a few leads, but all
    are essentially humane-society/voluntary humane-society places.
    
    Euthanasia (sp?) to cats who don't sell isn't a very comforting
    thought, so we're essentially avoiding the humane society shelters.
    (although we are calling and asking questions).
    
    Thanks again for the help!  Hopefully SOME miracle will happen...
    
    Peace,
    
    - Steve
    

    Steve,
    
    Last February I was in the same situation as you are now.  I found
    this notes file and posted a note for the adoption of my cat.  I
    am living in an apartment and they sent me an eviction notice because
    they found out we have a cat.  Well I finally found a home, told
    the landlord that the cat was home, and got her back the same night.
    The person that I gave her to asked me to take her back that night
    because her cat went wild.  So it has been 7 months and the landlord
    has never said another word.  What I started doing was keeping her
    in during the day and letting her out for a couple hours after I
    get home from work.  At first she cried and cried every morning
    for me to let her out and I felt like a real meanie.  Now she knows
    that she can't go out in the morning and that she will be let out
    later on for a few hours.  No more complaints from her in the morning.
    Cats are animals of habit (I think).  I thought it was mean to keep
    her in all day but I have heard that they can sleep up  to 20 hours
    a day.  She sleeps all day, goes out for a couple of hours, and
    then sleeps most of the night.  I don't think she minds any more.
    We both were so upset when we gave her away and are both glad that
    we got her back the same day.
    
    The landlord just sent us a new lease to sign.  I don't think they
    are stupid.  They must know she is around.  She is always in the
    window.  I just think "Out of sight, out of mind".  Maybe you can
    get the neighbors to sign a permit if you promise to keep her inside.
    Then after a few weeks you can start letting her out for a couple
    hours at night.  
    
    This bought us enough time.  Now we are looking at buying a place
    so for the sake of 7 months of keeping her in during the day, we
    still have her.
    
    Pam

    woops, meant to say that we told the landlord that the cat was gone.
    My fingers got ahead of me.
    
    Pam

    If you have had the cats for two years, I think you should consult
    a lawyer.  I do think there is a possibility that you have legal
    grounds for preventing the eviction.  I also vote for the indoors 
    alternative.
    

    Yes, please do consult a lawyer!  Your neighbors infuriate me!!
    How dare they deprive you of keeping your cats.  I still think that
    condo rule of having both neighbors sign is dumb and if your cats
    were there before the neighbors, you have more than a leg to stand
    on now.  At least call a lawyer and consider your options.
    
    No flames please, but I am not necessarily fond of children, yet
    living in a condo development, have to put up with other people's
    kids tromping through the common areas, my "yard", screaming, being
    destructive, etc., and yet I cannot demand that my neighbors give
    up their kids!  So what gives them the right to ask us to give up
    our beloved pets?!  Cats do far less damage than some children I
    know!!
    
    Sorry to get off on that tangent.  I need to chill out now.
                                 
    
    --Roberta
    

    re: .5
      Steve - leash train the cats.  It works well with mine.
    
    I think your neighbors are neurotic!
      N
    

    Steve - another thought.  What would have happened if you had
    the permit and when the new cat-hater neighbors moved in they 
    didn't approve.  Would the management then tell you you had to get
    rid of the cats?
      If your cats are doing no damage and these people are simply
    animal haters I don't think they have any grounds for their
    attitude..  If you cat has done damage then they should have
    told you about it and its your responsibility to correct the
    situation.  
      I still think you should talk to a lawyer.
    
    re: shelters 2110.16 lists some "no-kill" shelters. Unfortunately
    the are all full.
    re: eviction - I would wonder if they would really go through the
    expense of evicting "good" tenants for something that is not doing
    any harm  in the first place.  You might be able to enlist the help
    of other tenants too.  If the management company finds out that
    the majority of the tenants are on your side they might think twice
    about following through with the eviction.  From what I understand
    it is a long expensive process.  
      If I were you I'd look for another apartment.  The management
    company certainly is not lookout out for your interests so don't
    worry about them.
      Nancy DC
    

    RE: .12
    
    That sounds like a possible idea, but we're going to check out the
    exact wording of the contract and see if we have any kind of case
    whatsoever.
    
    RE: .16
    
    Leash training is, again, another good idea - although still not
    as good as allowing to roam freely.
    
    RE: .17
    
    We have no idea what would've happened had we had a permit prior
    to the cat-hater neighbors moving in.  Probably nothing, I suppose
    - again, a fault on our side.  Thanks for the shelter list, I'll
    check them out.
    
    Thanks again for all your help, I'll look into these suggestions
    and hopefully, we'll come up with something.  
    
    However, the kitties are still up for adoption - in case anyone
    knows of someone who'd like a quiet 10-year-old or a playful
    6-month-old.
    
    Peace,
    
    - Steve
                                            
    

    Steve,
    
    I agree with your contacting a lawyer on this.  When you said
    "neighbors" that object to your cats, how many neighbors do you mean? 
    Just a couple who live next door or a number of families on block?  I
    just don't think because "one" family or couple hate cats that it
    should be enough grounds for you to get rid of your cats if they
    haven't done any damage to anyone's property.  We don't use "hatred"
    to get rid of destructive neighbors and/or their destructive children 
    (I know what you mean .15).
    
    I believe Kitty Angels, Tyngsboro, MA has a waiting list but it
    wouldn't hurt to call them.  508-649-4681.  There is also a no-kill
    shelter in Concord, MA called "Adopt-A-Cat".  Don't remember tel. #
    but I know it's in this file.
    
    Also, you might give WBZ Call for Action a shot.  Their # is
    617-787-2300 and you can call them between 11AM and 1PM Mon.-Fri.  They
    may be able to give you some free legal advice since you do live in
    Mass.
    
    Good luck!
    Pat
     

    I think Steve is going to have a real problem with the 10 yr old.
    Kitty Angels goes to some of the cat shows and may offer to let
    you bring the kitties down to one of the shows they will be at.
    You get lots of exposure to cat lovers that way.  When you call
    them ask them about doing that.  I think they'll be in the W.Warwick
    show next month (9/16-17).  I will be too.
      Good luck.
      Nancy DC

    I agree, Nancy, about the 10yr. old.  It's too bad too, as that's the
    perfect age of a cat for an elderly person living alone.  There are two
    such cats presently at the Nashua Humane Society that they're hoping to
    find homes for; one of which will have his photo in Saturday's Nashua
    Telegraph as this week's pet for adoption.  The humane society runs a
    photo every Sat. in that paper to try to place their cats/dogs/puppies/
    kittens.  They've had pretty good luck with this too.  I paid them a
    visit last night and had a tour of the facility.  Boy, did I want to
    take them all home with me (sigh).
    
    Pat
    

    Re: .18
    
    Even if the contract says no pets, you may have legal grounds if
    you have had the cats for some time and the management hasn't
    done anything about it.  Do see a lawyer, please.
    

    Did you have the cat BEFORE the *$#%@* neighbors moved in?
    Might make a difference if the oldest cat was there first.
    Why not try keeping the cats in for a short time just to see
    how they react?  Can't hurt....

                                                              
    Bob

    Hi everyone,
    
    Thanks to all feliners for helping us out during this whole ordeal.
    We're going to attempt to keep the kitties in until we can find
    a more permanent solution.  Since I only work here on a temporary
    basis, it'll be hard to keep people informed of what's going on.
    
    I'll be sure to peruse this notesfile the next time I have a chance,
    which should be in a couple months or so.  Again, thank you for
    all your help, it's really made living a lot easier, and it's nice
    to know that you've given so much time to care.  
    
    Keep on meowing!
    
    Peace,
    
    - Steve