Conference misery::feline_v1

    Jack,
    
    Every so often a Male calico cat will appear.  Even in pedigreed
    breeding programs.  I saw a Tortie Male at a show in Canada
    once....judges just didn't know what to do with it!!!
    
    My understanding is that these male cats are usually sterile.  
    
    Baby and Charlie although Tri-Colored do not fit the description
    of a Calico....a Calico is a cat that has black, red and white,
    not black, grey and white.
    
    cin
    

    
    
         This is going to sound like a reeeeaaaalllll stupid question
    but .....  When we say one of the colors is red what color does
    this red look like?  Is red the same color that I would automatically
    assume is orange?  Or then again maybe I've never seen a cat with
    that color.  Just anything that I could compare it to would let
    me understand what shade red is on a cat. 
    
                                                   Color confused,
                                                                 kim

    re:2
    
    You are NOT asking a stupid question.  You are SMART if you ask
    when you do not know ! (just my opinion)
    
    Orange =  Red
    
    Gray   =  Blue                          
    
    
    E.T.
    

    This reminds me of the description of our first Saint Bernard.
    When we got the papers from the breeder they described him as
    Rough coat, RED, WHITE AND BLACK, Saint Bernard. (I was wondering
    if we had the right dog.) Time made me smarter on their names for
    colorings.
    
    Certainly he wasn't red or orange, but a lovely shade of golden
    brown.
    
    Don't you just wonder sometimes who makes up the names of these
    colors? Maybe they wear sun glasses, or are colored blind.
    
    No matter what color they are, if they are feline or canine they
    are beautiful. Well..... almost.
    
    Barbara

    I AM "color deficient", so it does get a little confusing...
    
    thanks for the explanation, Cindy - that helped out!
    
    (and so There is such a thing as a male Calico.. oh boy, wait
    until I rub this point in talking with th' wife tonight!!!)
    
    Thanks to you, too, ET!
    
    jack

    
    
        Thank you very much Elaine :^)
    
        Now tonight I'll have to really look at my two little calico
    colored sisters and see if they are true calico's......  
    
                                                                kim

    Now lets get this straight here!!!!!!   :-)
    
    My husband is bratting out as usual.  I never claimed there
    was "no such thing as a male calico", I freely admit that they
    do happen, that they are very rare, and that they are usually
    sterile owing to the fact that a male calico results from an 
    XXY chromosome set.
    
      Nancy "check the rules, the female is always right" DC
    

    Hmmph. I don't remember her ever saying :
    
    > I freely admit that they do happen, that they are very rare,
    > and that they are usually sterile owing to the fact that
    > a male calico results from an XXY chromosome set.                  
    
    Jack  (an XY chromosome set)
(who_is_genetically_freed_from_having_to_remember_EVERYTHING_his_spouse_says)

    Just FYI for those of you who are curious...
    
    Calico, or tortie and white (as it is sometimes known) is generally
    a combination of red (or orange) black and white, set in "islands"
    on a cat (if you've ever seen a Japanase Bobtail of the traditional
    mi-ke type, that's a calico).  In calico's the colors are not mixed
    up (like in a blenderized pattern), but clearly delinated ("look,
    honey, here's a patch of red, patch of black.." and so on).
    
    There is such a pattern as a dilute calico, which is blue, cream
    and white (kinda a faded calico look), a lavender calico (lilac,
    cream and white), and a chestnut calico (which is a darker version of
    a dilute, almost white, dark blue (grey) and red.  Other color patterns
    might occur which I may not be aware of as far as calico's go, but
    the main differential between calico and tortoiseshell is that the
    calico has a lot of white and the other two colors are definite
    islands (the orange usually consisting not of solid orange but of
    orange and a yellow tabby type coloring).  The white on a calico
    should make the cat rather look like it was dunked in milk, leaving
    the colored patterns mainly on the back, head and tail, with the
    white on the lower parts of the body.
    
    The tortoiseshell has black and orange markings (with the
    aforementioned yellow and orange mix), altho white spotting does
    occur (the 'tux' look is not uncommon).  Generally, tortoiseshell
    colors are rather mixed up, altho in some cases, the black and red
    CAN be rather distinctly separated, but without the predominance
    of white patches (remember, tortie and white = calico, but the white
    is a bit more than occassional spotting here and there for most
    standards to call it a calico).  There are variations of tortoiseshell,
    (dilute, chocolate/chestnut, and lavender/lilac), and there is also
    such a thing as a tabby-tortie pattern, or torbie, which is
    tortoiseshell with the black patterns (or lilac, etc) being replaced
    by tabby patterns.  
                                         
    There reason why there are RARELY male calico or tortie cats is
    that the gene for torie or calico is made up of the Oo gene (one
    Orange gene and one non-orange gene). These are usually carried
    on the X chromosones.  Females have XX chromosones, so the O and
    o can be toted around, while the males generally only have one X
    and one smaller Y, meaning they can usually only be orange (O) or
    non-orange (o), but not both.  However, once in a while, a male
    will crop up with XXY chromos...the Y giving the cat male
    characteristics and the two XX's giving him the Oo genes necessary
    to be a tortie.  Usually, as said before, the male is sterile as
    the sex organs are not properly formed.  However, just because a
    cat has XXY chromos does NOT always mean he will be a tortie--
    if both X's carry the O genes (OO), he will be orange...if he gets
    two o's (oo) he won't be...
    
    Such is the nature of genetics...fun, huh?
                                                          ---kim

    
    
    You didn't mention the calico tabby!!
    
    I think thats what I have...
    
    last was very informative though..!
    
    F.

    Well, I kinda did...if you wanna be real precise, I would imagine
    a calico tabby would be torBIE and white as opposed to torie and
    white.
    
    Thanks for the compliment, glad I could be of use.
    
                                                             ---kim

    
    
    Oh!
    
    Well I'm not sure what she is!!
    
    Shes blakish, with orange tiger stripes and the only white in her
    is maybe a 1/8 inch spot on her back foot..
    
    Her stomach is almost tortieshelle, but still kind of tigerish..
    
    I'll have to take pictures!!
    
    F.

    maybe she's a torbie (again, calico's have LOTS of white)....I guess
    pictures would help!  Cat's aren't like paint where you have a label
    to tell what color they are right on 'em!  ;)
    
    Sounds to me like she's more tortoiseshell colored...at any rate,
    she DOES sound really pretty!
    
    kim

    Katenka is a Calico (Calico Tabby, as I call her, which is not really
    a "real" pattern).  She has a bit of color on the top of her head,
    a small spot on the back of each ear, 5 separate spots of color
    2 on her back and 2 on one side, and one on the other side, entire
    tail has color, face, chest, body, tummy, legs, and feet are all
    white.  All but one of the spots are round - her left side has
    round spots, but there are really 3 of them and they don't have
    very much white separating them.  Some judges have called her a
    patched tabby and white - others a calico - others a Torbie and
    white - others a Cailby and white.  After a while, I was so 
    confused as to how to fill out her entry forms, that I said
    to myself as I looked at her - to me she looks like a Calico
    Tabby - that sort of stuck.  After all, she is a mixed breed
    household pet. I guess I didn't feel that it would make a
    whole lot of difference - 
    
    E.T.
                 
    Caliby, 

    Just noticed this note.
    
    Bandit is a DILUTE calico.  She is peach, grey, and mostly white.
    She looks like a calico that has been dipped in bleach.  This is
    supposed to be a legitimate *type* of calico although I have never
    seen another one and everyone who sees her remarks on her unusual
    coloring.
    
    Cathy (Bandit & Smokey)
    

    Cathy, these cats are often refered to as Blue-Cream and Whites.  To be
    true dilute calicos they must have large patch  of both blue and cream
    with white where a blue-cream and white would be kinda like mottled
    blue and cream on a white background.
    
    is that confusing, or what!  
    
    Dilute Calico's and Blue-Cream & Whites are really beautiful.
    
    cin
    

    I've seen dilute calico's - Susan Berrini has sisters, one is a
    regular calico and the other is a dilute calico - They are both
    GORGEOUS!  I'm a real sucker for calicos  :-)
    I want a calico Scottish fold!  (Or a silver patch tabby of course)
      Nancy DC
    

    And I thought I had a calico...but after reading these notes...
    I'm note sure.  Hope you don't mind if I explain the coloring
    of POCO and you can tell me what type of kitty I have.
    
    Poco only has a bit of white on her and it's on her belly, chest
    and tips of her toes..  Her back is a blend of black, orange, and tan,
    which is not patches.  Her face has the same type of blend with
    a big orange patch covering her nose and one eye. She also has
    a few patches of tan/orange on her legs.   It looks like someone splatter 
    her with paint.   
    
    Whatever she is...I adore her.  My aunt said "she's so ugly she's
    adorable!!  I was totally insulted because to me she may look a
    little different,,,,,but she's beautiful.
    
    Is she Calico??
                               
    Sandy and (Tamba, Barkley and Poco)
    

    Sounds like she's probably a Tortie and White.  If the black and orange
    on her back is "mottled" (blended together) then she's a Tortie and
    White, if it's in large patches of black and orange, then she's a
    Calico.  Of course, just to make things confusing....if there's more
    white than color, she's a harlequin!
    
    cin
    

    re: Harlequin also implies, like van, that the color is mostly on
    the extremities - head, legs, tail - like Bonnie.
    
    Here are a couple of other options:  If she looks like a tortie and
    has tabby markings, like Mao, then she's a "torbie and white".  And
    if she really looks like a brown tabby with patches of red tabby, or
    like a silver tabby with patches of red tabby then she is a  
    brown or silver patched tabby.
      Bring a picture with you to the show in Salem if you'll be there
    and I'll tell you what color she is.
      Nancy DC

    OH - and my mother thinks Bonnie is ugly!!!!  Some people have
    no taste!

    Nancy,
    
    I won't be at the show in Salem...after today I am on Vacation
    for a week and we leave tonight!!  How am I going to make it
    through the day!!!  
    
    Thanks for the offer...maybe we can meet up some other time.
    
    Good luck at the show.
    
    Sandy

    Well, send me a picture anyway....I love to see other folks'
    furfaces.
      Nancy DC
    

    To even further complicate things, if she looks like a tortie and
    white and has tabby markings, but the tabby markings are on the
    red parts of her only, then she isn't a torbie and white.  Ghost
    tabby markings sometimes appear in red patches.
    
    Actually, I don't think all the associations agree on this though.
    
    Jo

    You guys are confusing the heck out of me with all this torite
    and white with tabby markings on red parts only...etc etc.
    
    My only solution to determine what she is.... would be do join the
    Eastern Feline Party and bring pictures.  It sounds like one heck
    of a good time.   I think I'll go!
    
    Sandy
    
    

    re: .25 - Sounds like an EXCELLENT idea. I'll look forward to seeing
    you there.
      Nancy