| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 2359.1 | She is in Vienna, VA but it isn't that far away | YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO | | Wed Apr 05 1989 20:22 | 15 |
| Nancy,
I sure hope that you will be stopping by to see Judy Bennet. She
owns one of my boys, GRC Mysinhs Lysander of Junsui. I haven't
seen the tyke since he was 8 months old and I understand he is a
monster now (size not temperament, I hope). I am really curious
to know whether or not she has used him for breeding yet. He turned
a year old on January 31st, and his sister Lyscentia just had her
first litter on Monday.
If you will be seeing Judy, be sure to give her a big hug from me.
I wish I could go with you, but it is kinda a long commute from
California!
Jo
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| 2359.2 | ;^) | CLUSTA::TAMIR | ACMS design while-u-wait | Wed Apr 05 1989 21:05 | 3 |
| Gee, Jo, I can just tuck you under the seat in front of me next trip!!
Mary
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| 2359.4 | | FSHQA2::RWAXMAN | A Cat Makes a Purrfect Friend | Thu Apr 06 1989 14:33 | 15 |
| Nancy, I really do wish I could go with you. Take lots and lots
of pictures. I would also love to see the videotape. I hope you
can find a travelling companion but if not, you're going to have
a great time. I'll be thinking of you this weekend!
Besides, even if I *could* go, I would be reluctant to mention the
fact that I own Ragdolls around all those Birman breeders :^) !!
Have fun! Hope you come back attached to a cat.
/Roberta
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| 2359.6 | I am jealous | YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO | | Fri Apr 07 1989 15:53 | 35 |
| Roberta,
I would say that would be wise! :^D
(refering to your comment about not mentioning your Ragdolls to
all those Birman breeders)
Nancy,
You are going to have a great time with Judy. She is very personable
and friendly. Her cats are gorgeous! (not just the one she got
from me ;^}) Be sure to have her go over the good and bad points
of her kittens for you so you will have a better idea of how to
evaluate a kitten before you buy. I don't know Vee and Charlene
as well, but have seen some of the cats of their breedings, very
nice cats.
About the Birman book. Right now, SCBF is completely out of them
so there will probably not be any available at Medina. If you can
get it from England then do it. There has been talk of a Revised
Edition, but I have no idea what the status of that is.
Do plan on coming to Medina if you can. Last years entry saw 99
Birmans in the show! I believe there were 42 kittens, 40 adults
and 17 premiers. We are hoping to beat that record this year.
Breeders often plan litters of kittens to be 4 months old by then
so that they can take them to Medina (sometimes to sell). It is
also a great place to compare types of Birmans. Only when you see
so many in one place, do you notice the differences in type.
Jo
PS - give Lysander a big hug for me too.
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| 2359.7 | | FSHQA2::RWAXMAN | A Cat Makes a Purrfect Friend | Fri Apr 07 1989 16:37 | 21 |
| Actually, I don't see why the Birman breeders feel they have to
show so much hatred toward the Ragdoll. I would like to own a Birman
someday and if a breeder ever refused to sell me a kitten simply
because I own Ragdolls, I would consider that sheer prejudice.
Us Ragdoll owners are not out to pollute the Birman breed. My reason
for owning Ragdolls and (wanting to own) a Birman is because I happen
to think both breeds are beautiful and would like to share my life
with one of each.
Jo, although I realize your comment was not intended as a flame
(and I instigated it with my previous reply), it is neither productive
nor smart for a breeder to downgrade another person's choice of
breed (or another breed in general). When I begin my search for
a Birman, I hope I can find a breeder who is willing to sell me
a kitten regardless of what other breeds of cats I own.
Just had to get that off my chest.
/Roberta
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| 2359.8 | I never thought you were polluting ;^) | YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO | | Fri Apr 07 1989 17:25 | 18 |
| Roberta, boy I bet you feel better!!! :^D
I don't think that you would ever find a Birman breeder that would
refuse to sell you a kitten just because you have a Ragdoll. You
may find one that wouldn't want to sell you a kitten because you
have outdoor cats though.
We Birman breeders are not awful people. We are just super protective
of our breed, that is all. Birmans are a minority breed, and the
breeders, for the most part, are a close-nit group. I don't expect
you to understand the underlying feelings that breeders have towards
their breeds. We still love cats! And ragdolls are cats, aren't
they! I think this whole Birman-ragdoll thing is getting blown
way out of proportion.
Sorry I touched a nerve with my previous reply.
Jo
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| 2359.9 | Curiousity reigns | JULIET::APODACA_KI | Songs from the Razor's Edge | Fri Apr 07 1989 18:17 | 4 |
| What is a Ragdoll and why would there be competition/hatred between
the two breeders?
---kim
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| 2359.10 | Hopes this explains without stepping on toes | YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO | | Fri Apr 07 1989 18:28 | 26 |
| A Ragdoll is a breed of cat. The hard feelings on the part of Birman
breeders stem from the the fact that a Birman male was bred to another
cat to produce the first Ragdolls. Birman people have felt very
strongly against outbreeding their cats to other breeds or to other
cats (strays etc.) Some of them feel that a Ragdoll is not another
breed, but another *mixed* breed cat.
More hard feelings are caused by the fact that some Ragdolls are so
similar to Birmans, that some breeders cannot differientiate between
the two breeds without knowing which one is which. (I saw this happen
to a judge once at a TICA show!) CFA does not feel that there is
enough of a difference between the two to recognize Ragdolls for
showing in their association.
Ragdolls are beautiful cats! How could I say otherwise, they look
like Birmans...and we all know how I feel about Birmans.
As a side note, not all Ragdolls look like Birmans, only the pointed,
mitted ones do (points and white feet, just like a Birman). They
also come in solids, and bi-colors. The TICA standard calls for
the pointed and mitted ones to also have a white chin and an inverted
V of white on the nose, but none of the Ragdolls being shown in
my area conform to this. And yet, the judges still final them even
though they do not conform to the standard! Explain that one.
Jo
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| 2359.11 | Inquiring minds would like to know.. | DRFIX::IVES | I'm my own Persian | Fri Apr 07 1989 18:31 | 14 |
| Jo -
I would like to address a question to you.
If you have an indoor/outdoor cat and it has had all its shots, and has
a yearly check (the whole routine, teeth cleaned, & boosters) and
gets a clean bill of health why wouldn't a Birman breeder sell you
a cat that was going to be strickly indoor?
I know many people who started out with a "cat cat" and then got into
the predigee's and have never had a problem. I also question my vet
on this and he saw no problem.
Barbara
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| 2359.12 | | JULIET::APODACA_KI | Songs from the Razor's Edge | Fri Apr 07 1989 18:39 | 13 |
| Jo--thanks...can you differentiate for me the differences between
a Ragdoll and Birman? I know what a Birman looks like, of course--long
hair, but not a Persian type-face (thank god), pointed and with
mittens--so what makes a Ragdoll a Ragdoll and what difference was
the breeder who "created" it looking for?
Re -1 I'm certainly not a breeder, but my guess is that cats can
catch many things, much of which one cannot totally prevent, even
via vacinations, and a breeder who cares about their cats even after
sold may not wish to expose the cat to the chance of catching
something.
---kim
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| 2359.13 | | FSHQA2::RWAXMAN | A Cat Makes a Purrfect Friend | Fri Apr 07 1989 19:28 | 25 |
| Kim, so we don't create any redundancy here, note #2106 is all about
Ragdolls. I think you should read it because a lot of people in
this file who own Ragdolls wrote in with information about the breed
as well as their cats.
The breed was started by accident. The originator never meant to
create a new breed -- it just happened. You know, one of those
flukes of nature (only the Ragdoll is too pretty to be a fluke).
To sum things up, Ragdolls come in three patterns (mitted, bi-color,
and colorpoint) and four colors (seal, chocolate, blue, and frost).
My guys have the long, silky fur of a Birman and the colorpoints
of a Siamese (dark face, ears, legs, feet, and tail). I have a
sealpoint and a bluepoint, otherwise known as "Colorpoint Ragdolls"
according to the breed standard. They do not have white chins;
only the mitted and bi-color pattern should have white chins. The
bicolor has completely white legs, feet, and stomach with an inverted V
of white interrupting the dark mask.
I hope this further explains things for you. Again, please read
note #2106 for more information.
/Roberta
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| 2359.14 | | FSHQA1::RWAXMAN | A Cat Makes a Purrfect Friend | Fri Apr 07 1989 20:58 | 10 |
| >Some of them feel that a Ragdoll is not another breed, but another
*mixed* breed of cat.
Jo Ann, How do you think the Birman got started? It is my opinion
that all cats were crossed at one time or another to begin a new
breed. I can't believe that two breeds were not crossed way back
when to begin the Birman.
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| 2359.15 | Let's talk about something else, okay? | YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO | | Fri Apr 07 1989 21:48 | 20 |
| What I believe about how the Birman got started is not the issue
here, is it? The sentence that you extracted was in response to
a question regarding why there is hard feelings from Birman breeders
towards the Ragdoll. I was merely passing on information about
what some Birman breeders feel about Ragdolls. I did not personalize
that statement, nor did I state agreement with it. I am very sorry
that this discussion is hitting you so personally.
I am starting to feel some animosity coming through here and I don't
wish that to happen. You and I have been friends for over a year
now and have had all these discussions in private. We both know
how we each feel about the subject. I think that we have agreed
that both breeds of cat are beautiful, sweet creatures. So, since
we are in agreement, then what is the problem?
In a sense, you are acting just as protective of your Ragdoll breed
as we Birman people are about our Birman breed. I surely cannot
fault you for that! :^).
Jo
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| 2359.16 | | YOSMTE::CORDESBRO_JO | | Fri Apr 07 1989 22:04 | 35 |
| Re: .11
A Birman breeder is no different than any other responsible breeder
when it comes to selecting homes for their kittens. Breeders want
to chose the best possible homes for their kittens. An indoor/outdoor
cat can bring home illnesses to the indoor only cat. Your vet may
tell you not to worry about it, and that it is okay. My vet may say
otherwise.
What it comes down to for me, is getting to know the potential buyer
and their situation, and feeling comfortable about giving them one
of my babies. I have to believe that the buyer will love and care
for the kitten as I would had I kept that kitten myself. There
have been instances where I have decided not to place a kitten in
that situation, and there have been situations where I have placed
a kitten in that situation. Since there are no guarantees, all
I can do is go on my gut feeling.
Purebred cats are bred for physical attributes and are bred from
a specific gene pool. The gene pool of the general cat population
is much larger, and survival of the fittest plays a greater role
in who survives and who doesn't. Those that do survive, have the
highest immunity to disease, and the greatest survival skills.
That cat could be exposed to something outside that would not even
cause it to sniffle, yet when it came home and passed that on to
the inside cat, the inside cat (having never been exposed to that
illness, and thus having no immunity towards it) could become very
ill.
This, of course, is not taking into account things such as fleas,
ticks and other parasites (ear mites included).
I hope I have answered your question for you.
Jo
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