Conference misery::feline_v1

    You may want to try the airport for purchasing your carriers, the
    airline ones are less expensive there than anyplace else I've seen
    them, including cat shows.  
    
    I have one airline kennel that I would be willing to lend as long
    as it is returned....you could ship it back UPS.  I've done this
    several times and I don't use my airline carrier all that often.
    
    However, you will need a carrier for each cat.  The airlines will
    not let you ship more than one cat per carrier unless you are carrying
    them on.    If you are carrying them on, you may not need the
    "approved" carriers.
    
    call me or send mail if you'ld like more info
    cin
    

    I do not know where you mught find a carrier.  However, I would
    suggest that you check into flights that arrive late in the evening.
    Tucson gets very warm in June.  Over one hundred degrees is not
    uncommon at that time of year.  While it is not unpleasant if you
    are out in the fresh air it can be very stressful cooped up in a
    cargo hold.
    
    Hope you and family enjoy Tucson.  I lived there ten years and never
    wanted to leave.  (DEC had other ideas  :-)  )
    
    
    Dave M.
    

    Re .2
    
    I've heard that Delta and Norhtwest have air conditioned cargo areas
    for pets, otherwise they could NOT ship to Tucson during June. 
    
    What a shame you had to leave Tucson, its such a lovely place. 
    My husband and I can barely wait to get there, although our pets
    probably have a very different opinion!!  I am presently trying
    to secure a position at the Tucson facility.  I've interviewed with
    Art Jones and Steve Georgoulis.  Do you know them ??
    
    Jeanne
    

    I wanted to tell you about an experience with tranquilizers.  I
    took my big boy, Smokey, on a long car trip, and gave him a
    tranquilizer before we left home.  He never really liked travelling,
    but this time he went nutso.  He cried the whole 3 hours, mouth
    open constantly, his eyes showing nothing but the third eyelid.
    He cried so hard that I cried with him.  When we arrived at out
    destination, we were a pitiful-looking pair!!  
    
    I called the vet before returning home to see if I should increase
    the dosage, and he said that I was to NEVER give him one of those
    pills again.  He had a severe reaction from it, and the next one
    coule be worse.  The trip back was heaven.  He cried for about a
    half hour, then slept or looked around the rest of the time.
    
    I would hate to think that he was in an airplane, all alone, and
    going through that.  I guess what I'm trying to say is be sure your
    friends can take tranquilizers ok before you put them on a plane!!
    
    Sharon (Smokey's pal)

    The airline that you will be flying will be the best place to get
    information.
    
    I do alot of flying with cats and shipping of cats and would be
    willing to tell you what I know.
    
    1) Delta has a service called "Delta Dash".  It is a counter to
    counter service, costs $99.95 per pet, must be paid in advance,
    and you have to have someone on the other end to pick up the cat
    right away since it arrives in the baggage claim area.  This service
    is *sometimes* restricted by temperature at both ends, but usually
    not since the cat will not spend any time on the tarmac.  The only
    time I have run into a temperature problem was just recently with
    the cold front that you have had on the east coast.  Delta's corporate
    office put an embargo on shipping any animals until the freeze was
    over (hence Mary Tamir hand carried the babies).
    
    2) Shipping on other airlines will cost you by weight and distance.
    Average around $150.00 per kennel.  Cats must be in separate carriers
    and must be in approved carriers.  Fees are paid at the destination.
    Cats must be at airport *cargo* terminal at least two hours prior
    to departure and will be unloaded two hours after arrival at the
    destination (this adds four hours travel time for the cats).
    
    Send mail for more info
    
    Jo 

    When I fly with Katenka, the charge is $30.00 each way for her
    to go under my seat.
    
    My friends that ship their cats cargo, pay the same - one cat
    per carrier.  Delta does not allow cats in the cabin, only
    in baggage unless you get special dispensation from their
    headquarters in Atlanta.
    
    E.T.

    
    	re .4 - My dog had the same type of reaction on a plane
    		trip. She was given a tranquilizer ahead of time,
    		as directed, before flying from Boston to Va. By
    		the time we got her on the other end, she was 
    		frantic, almost broke her canine teeth trying to 
    		bite through the metal wire on the front of the 
    		carrier. Although I'm sure every dog reacts differently,
    		I would never fly her anywhere again...
    
    		Sherry
    

    Elaine,
    
    The $30 price is only for cats when they are accompanied by someone
    on the plane.
    
    We just shipped my husbands brothers cat to California this weekend,
    and as Jo said, she had to be there two hours earlier, and won't
    be delivered until 2 hours later.  They also wouldn't allow me to
    leave a carrier cover on the carrier as I could when Stripees flew
    with you.  The cost was a little more than $75 one way.
    
    This was not counter to counter!!!
    
    cin
    

Jean:

I don't know if you remember me but I have spoken with you a number
of times on the phone.  I used to work in NIO when Lou Gaviglia was
up in the mezzanine many years ago!

I don't have any advice for you but I would like to know how you like 
living in Tucson when you go in June.

My husband and I are considering re-locating to Albuquerque, New Mexico
and will take a weeks vacation this summer to see first-hand the homes,
job-market, etc.

Now that the kids are grown we would love to move from the snow-belt
to the sun-belt.  We have been in the southwest vacationing and loved it.

I have forwarded my resume to Albuquerque personnel, just as an interest
at this point.  I am an Admin Sec.  My husband has been layed-off since
last September so he is interested in looking for work in the research
and development area (Los Alamos isn't far from Albuquerque).  

Let me know how you make out with your job search and how you like living
in the great southwest!

Thanks,

Peg Petagna
WJO::PETAGNA

< Note 2355.0 by SALEM::DEFRANCO_J >
                     -< Leaving for Tucson, need advice! >-

    Hi everyone!
    
    I am in need of some equipment and some advice.  In terms of equipment,
    I need to find an airline approved vari-kennel large enough to hold
    a 45lb. siberian husky and another kennel large enough to hold 2
    or 3 cats.  It would sure be a cost savings if I could pick these
    up used!!!
    
    As for the advice:  I will be shipping my pets from Boston to Tucson,
    Arizona sometime in the June timeframe.  I'm already getting a bad
    case of the "NERVES" over this.  I'll be in touch with the airlines
    soon to see which ones have the facilities to ship in hot weather
    and I don't know if I should give my guys tranquilizers or not.
    None of them particularly like to travel and it sure is a long trip,
    even by plane!  Any advice or life experience that you could share
    with me concerning this subject would be greatly appreciated!
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    Jeanne (Cali, Sam, and Sweetie)
    
    P.S.  Mary, if you don't make it over to see Sweetie within the
    next few months, you'll have to visit Tucson to see her.  It's a
    long trip, but it might be fun!!!!
        
    
    

    re .all
    
    Sounds like the tranquilizers are out of the question!  I don't
    need any more problems with this move than I already have.  They
    will just have to be brave kitties and accept the flight in a wide
    awake state!  I'm sure they will survive!!
    
    I'm going to call the travel agency today to get the scoop on this
    shipping business.  It sounds like every carrier has different rules
    and prices.  I intend to be on the same flight as my pets so maybe
    I can take two of them under my seat and let the other two go in
    the cargo area.  I'll keep you posted as to what rules I come up
    with!!   Thanks.
    
    
    Jeanne (Cali, Sam, and Sweetie)
    
    

    Jeanne, I don't know of any airline that will allow you to take
    more than one cat in the cabin.  If you and your husband are flying
    out together, one of you can take one cat under your seat in first
    class, and the other can take a cat under the seat in coach.  But,
    they will not allow more than one cat per cabin.  Also, make your
    reservations early and be sure to reserve the "cat in cabin" space.
    I have frequently had trouble getting a flight were I could take
    the cat with me, because someone else had already booked the cat
    in cabin.
    
    Also, United Airlines charges $50.00 for cats.
    
    If any of the cats are littermates under six months old, they may
    fly together in one kennel. (I have found this to be true of most
    of the airlines)
    
    I forgot to mention, if you use Delta Dash service, you must pay
    for it before the flight.
    
    Jo

    If you want to take more than one cat_in_a_cabin, try to
    get a flight on a jumbo jet.  In many cases, there is more
    than one "coach cabin."  That is, some airlines consider each
    "section" between bulkheads (e.g., smoking & non-smoking) to
    be separate cabins -- it isn't always just coach vs. non-coach.
    
    I was able to book a flight for my daughter and a friend to take
    2 cats.  I got them reserved seats in different coach-class cabins,
    and then they moved their seats once they boarded the plane (the
    flight was NOT full) so they could sit together.
    
    Fresh Pond Travel in Natick, MA has a special travel agent who
    specializes in pets travelling with or without their people!
    Let me know if you want more info.
    
    	Pennie

    re: 8
    
    righty on!!  How quickly I forgot that IIII was on the same
    plane.    Boy, this past weekend must have affected my brain.
    Gee, I can't imagine how that could have happened!!!
    
    E.T.

Jeanne,
	You will love Tucson!
	I lived there 21 years and hated to leave.  I live 100 miles
	North now, in Tempe(Phoenix).  
	If you haven't chosen a vet yet, I reccommend Dr. Warfield or
	Dr. Baldwin at Valley Animal Hospital.  I worked for them for 
	awhile and know they are good and care.  Dr. Warfield has more
	experience, but Dr. Baldwin seems to care a little more.  

	I am in Tucson about every other weekend with Tsunami.  Let me
	know if you need any help when you get there.
Becky

RE: .13

Your brain just froze, that's all.  :-)

    re .14
    
    Hi Becky,
    
    So nice to meet another person from Tucson.  Thanks for the names
    of your vets.  We will be living in the Bear Canyon area, is the
    Valley Animal Hospital near there ?  
    
    Send me you phone number and maybe we can talk during lunch sometime!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jeanne
    

    re: .15
    
    That's not all that FROZE!  I'm still not thawed out yet!
    
    brrrrrr

    OK guys, since I can't seem to get any where with the airlines, they all
    say they won't take pets if its over 85 degrees, we are thinking
    of driving cross country to Tucson.  
    
    Now, that means 5 days or so in a car with 3 cats and 1 dog.  I
    have planned on getting a large cage (42 x 24 inches) to hold the
    3 cats, and a litter box.  Does this sound reasonable in size?
    
    The car will be air conditioned and I could start taking them for
    short rides now to get them used to driving.  
    
    Again, any tips would be appreciated!!!
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    Jeanne
    
    

    Sounds like a plan, Jeanne.  When we travel by car, we put everone
    in their own carriers, and keep a litter box in the car.  They sleep
    most of the way, and when we stop, we give them each a turn at the
    litter box, and at food and water.
    
    I have tried putting more than one in the large size kennel, but
    they get on each other's nerves on long trips.
    
    Good luck to you!
    
    Jo

    > I have tried putting more than one in the large size kennel, but
    > they get on each other's nerves on long trips.
    

    It realy depends on the animals.  When I just had Portia and Oscar,
    I used to board them at the vets all the time.  They would share
    a dog size cage together.  The understanding was that the 2 cats
    would stay together, but if problems came up, they would be separated
    into separate cages.  They did fine.  Then again, Portia and Oscar
    are fraternal twins, and usually sleep cuddled up together, and
    take care of eachother when the other is sick.
    
    Before I would cage them together, I would evaluate how well they
    get along together.  Do they ever get rambunctious together?  Do
    they ever fight?  Do they *always* sleep together?  Share everything?
    
    	-Nancy

    Jeanne,
    
    My very first cat was a truck cat.  At first my mother wouldn't
    let me keep him in the house, I couldn't find him a home and I refused
    to take him to a shelter.  Sooooo, Harry became a truck kitty.
    
    I kept a litter box on the passenger's side of the floor, a toy
    tied to the heater knob and a HEAVY DUTY stick-up on the dash (the
    pooper-scooper was also kept in a handy spot, too).  I also kept
    dry food in a cookie tin and fresh bottled water.
    
    He soon became accustomed to riding around and would actually sit
    on the passenger side looking out the window or on the back of the
    seat (I had a seat cover that he could hang on to, if necessary).
    Occasionally, he would stretch out under my seat but NEVER got under
    foot (I had warned him that it was very dangerous and that I would
    squish him if I needed to slam on the brakes. He agreed to stay
    out of the way).
    
    My advice would be to acclimate them to riding around, make sure
    that everyone has their favorite toys, snuggies, security blankets
    (a lesson my parents learned driving cross country with a small
    child and a large dog who both had the same blanket but in different
    colors...they forgot to pack the dog's blanket...the dog and I fought
    our way across Colorado and into Kansas).  If you can get window
    shades it may help since their kennels may be in direct sunlight
    for more than a few hours or make sure that they can get in the
    shade if need be.  Pack a first-aid kit, just in case (better to
    have it and not need it...).  You may want to check with AAA for
    a trip ticket and a listing of hotels along your route that allow
    animals.  I have also seen a book that lists all hotel/motels in
    the U.S. that allow animals. I'll post it if I can find it.
    
    I guess what I'm trying to say in a long-winded way, be as prepared
    as you possibly can, relax (then the kids will too), and have a
    good, safe trip.  I think if you can get them ALL used to riding
    around in the car for trips other than the V-E-T-S, you'll make
    out fine.
    
    TTFN,
    
    Roslyn,the nomad-who-takes-the-kids-for-a-ride-whenever-I-can

    .21 reminds me that (you probably  know this already) the insides of
    cars left parked in the sun can reach animal-killing temperatures very
    rapidly, even with a window cracked.  Thought I should mention this
    just in case.
    

    Re:  .22
    
    Just this weekend I was in Pak'n Save on Almaden as the employees 
    were making desperate pleas to the customers to the effect of:  "Would 
    the owner of the BMW with 3 small dogs in it please report to your
    car, the dogs are in desperate need of air."
    
    Of course, this is the week we are having record breaking heat for
    April.
    
    I couldn't believe that someone would do that.  Even worse, I couldn't
    believe they actually had to page this person more than once.  The
    calls went on every few minutes for nearly 1/2 hour.  I meant to
    ask as I checked out whatever became of the dogs but when I actually
    got to the stand I got involved in packing my groceries and forgot
    to ask.  I assume they finally found the owner and would like to
    think the dogs made it through okay.  (I'm an optimist)
    
    Jan

    Re: .23
    
    I know the humane officials and the police can break into a car
    to save animals in a case like this;  at least, it's legal to do
    so in Calif.
    

    Re:  .24
    
    Thanks for that info Karen.  It didn't occur to me then that breaking
    in (by police/humane society) in this situation would be legal.  At 
    least I'm armed with this information for the future should I run into 
    a similar situation (let's hope it doesn't happen).
    
    Jan

    I wouldn't care if it was legal or not.  If the option was that
    the animal would die or suffer brain damage, I'D BREAK THE WINDOW!
    And I'd be prepared to pay for the repair.  Its worth it to me
    to save the life of a trapped animal.
      (I'd try the police first)
      

I know that cops can break into cars to rescue animals in Tucson.
I called the police once in Tucson when someone had left a dog in a 
parked car in the middle of summer(95F).  I didn't realize that the
dog was in there until he started crying.
A policeman was there in less than 10 minutes after my call and let the dog 
out.  
About 5 minutes after the rescue the owner showed up only to receive
a ticket!!
(I don't hang out in parking lots.  I was laying out by the pool and
the car was parked just outside the pool gate.)

    When we live on the west coast of Florida near Clearwater, there
    always seemed to be a policeman in the parking lots. I can remember
    twice when I was awfully glad they were there.
    
    1. In the afternoon on a hot day in June, 2 small poodles were left
       in a car. Poor things were panting like crazy, and before we could
       say a word along comes this policeman, took his night stick and
       smashed the window. Reached in and got those little ones out and
       walked over the the shade of a tree and sat down with them. WHEN
       the owners showed up at their car the screamed, POLICE, POLICE,
       and he walked over carring their dogs, one under each arm, and
       procedded to tell them how they had broken the law, and the ASPCA
       was on their way to take the dogs. They had to pay a $150. fine
       for each dog to get it back. Love it....
    
    2. Involved a small child left on the back seat sleeping while the
       parents went in to grocery shop. Policeman called an ambulance  and
       then procedded to break the window. The little boy was unconscious
       and was taken to the hospital. The policeman stayed there until
       the parents came out and arrested them.
    
    In hot climates they have all kinds of wonderful laws about leaving
    living things locked in cars.  NO excuses accepted.
    
    Barbara

    re: .28
    
    Wow - way to go!  That's the best note I've read in a long long
    long time!   All states ought to do the same.
    
    E.T.

    Hi everyone!  Just wanted to keep you posted on what's going on
    with our trip preparations!  We have decided to DRIVE across the
    country.  I took the kennel out last night to how the cats would
    react to seeing it around the house.  Well, Sweetie thought it was
    great, she played on it, in it and even slept for a while in it.
    Cali would only go in it if there was food and started to scratch
    and bite at it when I closed the door.  Sam (oh so brave Sam) hid
    under the bed for 4 hours until I put the kennel back in the garage.
    I certainly have a way to go with him!!  
    
    By the way, we are planning on driving for about 10 hours per day.
    Will it be OK to leave the cats in their kennels for that long?
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jeanne 
    

    Jeanne, when we travel with the cats, whenever we stop for
    gas/bathroom/etc. we take each cat out for a few minutes, let them
    stretch and offer them a litter box, and a drink of water.  It 
    works well for us.  Just be sure to be inside the car with all doors
    shut when you let them out.  They could become scared by something
    and head for an open door or window, otherwise.
    
    They will be fine.  Just let them go to the bathroom every now and
    then.  Sounds like Sweetie and Cali will need less work than Sam.
    You might want to start taking him on short car trips in the carrier,
    and give him lots of praise and treats so it will be a positive
    experience for him.
    
    Jo
    

    and make sure that the windows are rolled all the way up, too. You'd be
    surprized at how small they can make their bodies when they want to get
    through a tiny opening.
    
    Deb