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Conference misery::feline_v1

Title:Meower Power is Valuing Differences
Notice:FELINE_V1 is moving 1/11/94 5pm PST to MISERY
Moderator:MISERY::VANZUYLEN_RO
Created:Sun Feb 09 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 11 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5089
Total number of notes:60366

2281.0. "Hate at First Sight--Any Cure???" by DSSDEV::DIBONA () Thu Mar 09 1989 16:39

This is a continuation of a NOTE I placed in the Adoption file calling my recent
adoption of Bandit a failure.  Well I'm trying to make this work out but I need
the advice of one who's "been there" and survived.  

I adopted Bandit 6 weeks ago and things haven't been the greatest between her
and my other (older) cat, Mocha.  A week or so ago when we were gone for the
day, Mocha knocked over one of my lavender plants in the front bedroom and
urinated on the soil.  Then she went on the bathroom (tile) floor, right next
to her litter box (which we had brought upstairs).  We could tell she wasn't
too happy.  For three weeks now I've been feeding her in the bathroom and that's
the only time she will leave my bedroom, unless we force her to come out.  She
and Bandit are still hissing and spitting at each other.  The chasing and the
fighting have calmed down somewhat.

Things are a little bit better and no one could possibly want things to work
out more than me.  The day after I wrote that Note I put them both in the
basement (a warm place, believe me, with a plush throw rug and a chair that
is awaiting new upholstery and a kitty kave, etc.) with toys and food and
plenty of water.  I thought maybe forcing them to be together would get them
over this uncomfortable point.  

Mocha hasn't had any "accidents" that I know of lately, with the exception of 
last Saturday night next to the toilet which may or may not have been her fault. 
(I gave my  husband a surprise birthday party and you know how guys tend to 
miss sometimes...)  I've had separate boxes for them all along because I had 
two cats up until I lost Coco in January.  

Everyone has told me that you can't force the issue, that we have to let them 
get to know each other in their own good time, but it's already been 6 weeks.
Bandit has only gone after Mocha once that I've seen this week and I put them
both in the basement after that incident.  It's not that it's a bad place but
it's not nearly as popular as the sofa in the sunshine or our bed.  And it's
definately a restriction.  

Mocha is a very high-strung, skittish cat.  She's 4 years old and weighs just
under 7 pounds (contrasted with Bandit at 9+).  The only thing I can get her
to eat is Amore and very little at that.  Back in November she went on a hunger
strike and didn't eat for almost a week.  Her blood sugar went up three times
normal and she was severely dehydrated.  She ended up in the animal hospital for
4 days and our (former) vet never figured out what caused it.  She's the biggest
pain but I love her like I never knew I could love any animal.  I may be wrong,
but it seems as if any other cat probably would be over this by now.

But I've grown to love Bandit, too, although she doesn't make it very easy.  I
guess she must resent me because I'm always protecting Mocha, feeding her
in the bathroom, shooing her away from Mocha's food (although now she wants
Amore, too, and sticks her nose up at the 9 lives) and scolding her whenever
she goes after her.  And when I say "after her" I mean totally unprovoked, at
least as much as I can see.  Maybe something in their body language escapes me.

I'm looking for advice as much as for a real solution to this problem.  My
faithful local pet store owner says they may never accept each other, but to
give it at least a couple of months.  If you have any suggestions, PLEASE let
me know.  

I'm getting to the end of my rope...

Ann
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2281.1CHET::MACDONALDThu Mar 09 1989 17:5428
    Ann,
    The Wilbourn method of introducing a new cat into a household is
    the best method I have found so far.  I have entered it in notes
    previously but will gladly reenter it if necessary. The second thing
    you might want to consider is a diet change.  I had a similar situation
    where a new cat was brought into my home where two large brother
    cats and a scrappy Siamese were already well established.  Shirley
    Mae ( the new cat ) had her share of hard times before she came
    to live with me but never initiated any trouble.  Pinecone ( one
    of the brothers) was the trouble maker.  At this time they were
    all eating commercial cat food - both dry and canned.  The fights
    were constant to the point of keeping me up at night.  On the urging
    of my dog's vet I changed their diet to a basic natural diet.  This
    consists of cooked brown rice, chicken, and various vegetables mixed
    with yogurt and a multi-vitamin supplement , vitamin C , a B complex,
    and sesame seed oil.  All cats except O.P. the siamese refused to
    eat for approx. 3 days.  BUT... the fights were decreasing and when
    all cats had been seccessfully weaned to the new diet all fights
    stopped and the cats actually ate out of the same bowls.  To prove
    to myself that this was a result of diet change I put all cats back
    on commercial food.  We were right back to square one.  So back
    to the rice diet.  Unfortunately we no longer have O.P. or Shirley
    Mae but I know my cats are healthier now.  My dogs are also on a
    natural holistic diet to I can vouch for the fact that it is a healthy
    diet.  If you decide to try this let me know as you will need to
    know the supplements to use.  Good Luck!!!
    
    MaryAnne
2281.2CIRCUS::KOLLINGKaren, Sweetie, & Holly; in Calif.Fri Mar 10 1989 00:2212
    My recollection is that it took Sweetie and Holly about two
    months before things quieted down.  One thing I found helpful
    was to pet both of them at once;  if they wanted cuddles they
    had to tolerate the presence of the other cat (albeit at two
    arms length distance).  I tried to create a calm atmosphere where
    they were both being petted in each other's company, thinking
    it would help psychologically.  I guessed that favoring one
    too much over the other would cause resentment, although I
    paid enough attention to the first cat so he wouldn't feel like
    he was going to be replaced.  I think new cats should come
    with tranqualizers for the owners;  hang in there.....
    
2281.3I spelled patience wrong, I know. ;DJULIET::APODACA_KISongs from the Razor's EdgeFri Mar 10 1989 00:2818
    My cats still arent' buddied and they've been together over a year.
    They don't fight (Bones is too old for that), but they don't cuddle
    either.
    
    Remember that your first cat has claimed your house as its territory.
     Cats are territorial animals and it will take some time (can be
    a long time) before territorial rights and social status are ironed
    out between new kitty and old.  Plus the jealousy factor can weigh
    in...new cats are novel to the owner and they may pay more attention
    to them, so old cats need extra attention (A security blanket).
     It's pretty rare that two cats just CANNOT live together...they
    usually learn to tolerate each other as mine have done, and hiss
    hiss, spit spits will happen and well as a minor skirmish.  Just
    have patients and don't let them go at it to the point where one
    might get clawed (that's one advantage we have over supervising
    fights!)
    
                                                    ---kim
2281.4Try to relax about the whole thing!SALEM::DEFRANCO_JFri Mar 10 1989 14:2929
    I was real worried when I wanted to bring a third cat into my house
    because of stories just like this one.  Well, I talked and visited
    with E.T. and her attitude was that if she could get 15 cats to
    get along I could do it with 3.
    
    He main point was not to worry so much and let the cats work it
    out themselves.  I took her advice and when I brough Sweetie home
    I just let things happen naturally.  When Cali through her fits
    I just ignored the entire thing.  When Cali spat and swatted Sweetie
    across the head, I just ignored it!  Within the week, all was well.
    Sweetie is not and probably won't ever be Cali's favorite companion
    but there is no more hissing or bad feelings between the two.
    
    I think that cats take on their masters (if you can call us that)
    feelings.  If you are stessed and nervous about the new addition,
    Mocha will also be nervous.  If you are relaxed and take her actions
    with a grain of salt, so to speak, maybe she will relax too.  If
    I were you, I would open all the doors and let them work it out.
    
    
    Jeanne, Cali, Sam and Sweetie
    
    P.S.  We have recently introduced a 9 year old dog into our household
          and we used the same theory and everything is working out
          just fine.  
    
          Good Luck!!
    
    
2281.5You need to relaxSOLANA::MAPPS_LILinda MappsFri Mar 10 1989 14:4329
I, too, now have a three cat household and I probably would be down to 
two if it weren't for E.T.  She basically told me to relax and it was
my house, not the cats.  I agree that if you are nervous, and I was, the
cats pick it up.  After thinking about it a long time, I went home one
night and waited until Cat Wars started again.  I got up, yelled "I've
had it - into the kitchen".  To my surprise they went.  I closed the
door and proceeded to yell for about 10 minutes saying stupid things
like "if anyone doesn't want to live here you can raise your paw now
and I'll let you out the door".  I have never yelled at them before,
and they all just sat and stared, side by side.  I finished, closed
the door and left. 

Since that day, we have had an armed truce.  There is no love between
the cats, but they do tolerate each other.  I also was more relaxed.
There are a few hisses occasionally, but no major fights.  I have 
even caught them (once) sleeping together, but normally they do not
have much to do with the new kitten.

Hang in there.  It was hard for me and I really was going to give
Sargent back to the pound which would have been a real mistake.  He
is one of the most people oriented fur faces around and I would miss
him terribly.

By the way, things are getting calmer all the time.  A definate
improvement was made when I was finally able to have Sargent neutered.
He's calmed down a little (very little) and it has helped.


Linda
2281.6Now if I can just coax the feral silver tabby into the houseVAXWRK::SKALTSISDebFri Mar 10 1989 15:0020
    Even though this isn't direct advice on introducing a new cat, I thought
    I'd pass this experience on because sometimes when people have a hard
    time introducing a new cat, they then think that they are at their cat
    max. When I had just 4 (Pip, Argus and the twins, Eirene and Panther), I
    found this poor little fluffy waif outside my office window. After
    no one claimed her, I decided to keep her (and named her "Alex"). Well,
    it was hate at first sight between Alex and Argus, and the house was a
    war zone for much of the next year. Then, I finally coaxed the feral
    tom (now known as Nikolas) that was living in my back yard into the
    house. Argus forgot that he didn't like Alex, and kept trying to pick
    fights with Niky. Niky, always the gentleman, would always just turn
    away, leaving Argus in a perplexed rage. Then, about 5 months later, I
    managed to get the feral tiger cat (know known as Spiro) into the
    house. Naturally, Argus stopped trying to fight with Niky, and picked a
    fight with Spiro. Spiro immediately rolled over. Argus didn't know
    what to do.  He just gave up trying to be Mr. Boss cat. (About the only
    fights that happen now are when another cat walks to close to Argus's
    dish and when someone tries to throw another off the cable box.

    Deb 
2281.7CRUISE::NDCFri Mar 10 1989 19:1718
    Isis used to tease Mao.  They reminded me for all the world of
    a younger and older sister.  you know how younger sisters tease
    their older sisters just to get a reaction.  And mommy always
    punishes the older sister cause she's older and bigger and should
    know better..(Can you guess where I fall in the sister order in
    my family).   
      This teasing started after they'd been living together for
    almost 4 years.  Well, I decided that what Isis needed was a
    kitten of her own.  Enter Dundee.  AFter three days of hissing
    and swatting him on the head she finally remembered what kittens
    were for and adopted him.  
      so now Bumpy and Mao pair off - nothing unusual, they were brought
    home together from the shelter and it was just the two of them for
    several years - and Isis and Dundee pair off.  Isis thinks she's
    Dundee's mommy!
      So sometimes adding a cat solves the problem!
      Nancy DC