Conference misery::feline_v1

    arn't they considered 'money cats'?
    

    Calico is a sex-linked gene.  My understanding is that there are
    a few male ones, but they are very rare and inevitably sterile.
    My vet claims further that the calicos have XXY (or is it XYY?)
    syndrome.  That is that one of the gene pairs is actually three,
    and this sometimes causes personality problems (his word was
    sociopath).  This is the same genetic "disorder" that has been
    tied to a large percentage of human prisoners.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    Re .2 (Karen, et al.):
    
    I understand the same thing.  It's XXY, BTW.
    
    Steve Kallis,. Jr.

    
    Thanks for the input.
    
    Also as I understand it assorted colors on black are considered
    Tourtis Shell witch is different then Calico..?? and the Calico's
    are called "money cats" because if the males live past a certing
    age then they are worth alot of money..is this also true??
    
    Thanks again Louisa 
    

    I believe the tortoiseshell and calico are the same genetically.
    The calico just has white in it.  I don't remember the discussion
    on the "money" cat, but there's a note in here somewhere about it.
    
    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    Tortoiseshells and Calicos both have red and black (or the
    diluted grey and "pink") colors. You may also have white in
    there as well, but it is the presence of red and black together
    that is the key.  This combination only occurs in females (except
    for the rare sterile males discussed in previous replies). That's
    why it is called "Sex linked", like colorblindness in humans, which
    usually occurs in males.  
      For colorblindness (and I would assume for calico/tortoishells
    as well) the gene for colorblindness is carried on the X chromosome.
    In fact, its carried on the part of the X that is missing in the
    Y chromosome.  In females with the XX combination, the expression
    of the colorblindness is suppressed by a corresponding normal gene
    on the other X chromosome.  Since the Y chromosome lacks that portion
    it can not carry a gene to suppress the colorblindness and it will
    therefore, be expressed.
       Nancy DC

When I brought Natasha to the vet (before I knew she was a she,
and certainly before I knew her name was Natasha), I asked the vet
to confirm for me that she was a female (she was pretty fluffy down there,
and I thought it possible that she might be a neutered male). The
vet told me "female" without looking any closer. When I asked how she could
tell from such a distance, she said that male cats can never have orange
and black patches on the same side of their body. (Although Natsha's
patches were more dark brown than black.) Since I'd never seen a cat that
violated that rule, I took her word for it.

    As I understand it "Calico" is the American version and "Tortoishell"
    the English version of the same colouring.
    
    Thats why I called my tortoiseshell cat "Calico" :-)
    
    Kate
    (Reading. UK)

    According to CFA, a tortoiseshell is a cat with brindled patches
    of black and orange on it's body.  Brindled meaning all mixed together.
    A calico is a white cat with unbrindled patches of orange and black.
    Unbrindled meaning solid black and solid orange.  In some associations
    they don't define them as being white cats, they just say that they
    have black, orange and white patches on the body. But the meaning
    is the same, they must have white to be a calico.
    
    (or if we are talking about the dilute's, the colors would be brindled
    patches of blue and cream [bluecream], or unbrindled patches of
    blue, cream and white [dilute calico])           
    
    Hope this sheds some further light on the subject.  This was also
    discussed in previous notes.  Anyone wanting to look into it further
    can probably find it under keywords.  Or someone else may be able
    to point the way (I am not good at finding old notes :^}).
    
    Jo
    

    The CFF version of calico is (and this is not exact because I don't
    have my standards here - they are home) but, a predominately white
    cat small amount of color on the head & extemeties - 2 or 3 patches of
    color (red & black) on the body -  the largest not to exceed 3 inches
    in diameter. If I remember, I will bring the standards in one day.
    You know how it is when ya have lots of cats at home, your memory
    turns to cat food!!
    
    My Katenka is a calico - but, she now is called a Calico Tabby.
    The judges went round for months and actually a judge used the
    Calico Tabby term & it seemed to fit.
    Within the round separate spots of color (red & black) she has
    stripes, within others are spots, and others are broken stripes.
    The household pet exhibitors have fun trying to guess from whence
    their babies came - I have not seen very many calico cats with
    the striping & spotting within the large patches. It makes for an
    interesting pattern.  On one side Tenka's tail is calico-like and
    on the underside it's ringed.  She has penciling on only the left
    side of her face just above her eye.  It's fun to guess.
    
    E.T. 

    In other words...  Calico (USA) = Tortoiseshell and White (UK)

    Karen, Tristan and Tenzing.

    Elaine,  According to CFA and TICA, if Katenka's stripes are only
    on her red spots, they aren't true tabby since red has ghost tabby
    markings.  If she has orange spots and brown tabby spots then she
    would be a brown patched tabby with white (I think) or a Torbie.
    
    You are right, they all have different wording for it.  But basically
    they agree that Tortie is brindled orange and black, and Calico
    is orange and black spots on white.
    
    In CFA your cat might be considered a Calico Van.  A van has spots that
    are confined to the extremities, with only one or two spots on the
    body, no bigger than 3 inches (maybe 2, I don't remember).
    
    I don't have my standards here today either, so my comments are
    from memory only (and many hours of clerking at shows and watching
    the tortie, tabby, particolor and dilute classes brought up for
    judging).
    
    Jo

    I saw a picture of Katenka in Cats Exhibitors edition not too long
    ago.  She is lovely.
    
    Jo

    See also notes 320.4 onward...
    
    /Maureen
    

    Right, it's the ghosting coming thru - it's funny, one CFF judge
    does call her a patched tabby - I sort of chuckle, because I
    have a patched tabby at home and she is so very different from
    Tenka.  sigh.  Katenka really isn't a harliquin(sp?) or a van
    because the spots on her left side are not separate - they run
    together, which makes them larger than 3 inches.  This is
    according to CFF - I don't take household pets to CFA -
    a topic that I don't want to go into here. 
    
    Anyhoo, the bottom line is that no matter what ever she be called,
    she's wonderful!!!
    
    E.T.

    re.13
    
    Thanks, Jo.  She's a sweet baby girl!  I really love spending
    weekends showing her - she is so good.  It's a real thrill to
    seeher stand up so straight and proud on the judging table!
    I can hardly believe I'm lucky enough to be owned by her!
    I just hope she ( and I) holds up till the end of the show
    season - we have 13 more shows to go.  This business of
    campaigning is something else.  I really think Tenkababies
    is better at it than I am!!
    
    E.T. 

    re .2
    
    Maybe that's why Mielikki (calico) is such a Mieligrouch to all
    but me (and sometimes me as well).
    
    

    My tortoise is a "she".  She does have some strange sociopathic
    tendencies.  Sometimes she cannot stand to be spoken to, and looks
    in the other direction when you talk to her.  Other times, she is
    wildly jealous when you talk to her brother (who is all black).
    
    My tortie is also very shy in the daytime, but rollicking at night...
    
    Cathy

Well, this is the first time in about 6 months I have read this conference
(E.T. called me last week and sparked the interest).

Anyway, there appears to be much misunderstanding and misinformation on the 
subject of Calico vs. Tortoishell (aka Tortie), as evident here and in topic
1908. I hope I can straightened everyone out. 

<>
For those who don't remember or know me, I have been involved in the cat fancy 
for over 15 years.  Although once an active breeder/exhibitor of Abys and Maus,
I leave this to my parents (TEMEK Cattery, Framingham, MA) now.  Show 
experience includes CFF, CFA, ACFA, TICA, ACA (no more).  I am a 
Licensed Master Clerk/Clerking Instructor in CFF and my father is a CFF Judge.
<>

I do believe that genetically the Tortie and the Calico color patterns involve 
the same genes, but I am not an expert here.  This fact, however, is not the 
governing decision on how the registries determined the recognized color
patterns. Most (probably all) U.S. cat registries define the Calico and the
Tortie patterns to be distinct ... they are *different*.  I'll described the
basic (generic) differences below for the U.S. registries.  Some registries
have more strict interpretations than others. 

Calicos must have 3 base colors -- black, red, white.  The colors *must* appear 
as "islands".  That is, black islands and red islands must be separated by a 
"sea" of white.  Ideally, these colors are evenly distributed.

A Calico with White would ideally have the lower 1/3 of the body as solid
white.  The rest is the same as for Calico.

Torties must have 2 base colors -- black, red.  They must not have any white. 
Think of this as not having any islands; the black and red patches touch. 

A Tortie with White would ideally have the lower 1/3 of the body as solid white 
with no white appearing on the upper portion of the body (as for Tortie).

Brindling describes the distribution of the colors and not the patterns 
themselves.  Brindling is defined as a mixing, clustering, or spotting of one 
color within another.  An ideal Calico must not have brindling.  Its patches or 
islands must be solid.  Torties may have brindling but it is not required.

A Tortie which also shows the Tabby pattern is usually known as a Torbie.  
Again, adding white to the lower 1/3 produces a Torbie with White.

[In another topic a while back, I explained the different types of tabby 
patterns.  I don't recall the topic #]

A Patched Tabby is hard to explain.  Usually you have to see one.  Anyway, the 
tabby bars are not well defined by dark stripes or swirls.  Instead the barring 
is in the "patched" color and it is more random.  Sorry I can't give a better 
description.

BTW, an evenly defined "blaze" (line down the nose) on the Tortie is not 
required by most registries.  I know that ACFA does mark down for this if it is
not present, but does not withhold wins.

Male calicos (aka "money cats") do exist ... I've held them myself.  They are 
extremely rare due to genetics, as mentioned before.  However, they can live 
to a ripe old age like anyone else.   :^)

-----------------

If anyone wishes to reply here, please also send mail to AQUA::GOLDMAN as I 
may not read the conference again for awhile.

In addition, I will be the Master Clerk at the following upcoming CFF shows if
anyone wishes to stop by for more info: 

Sat, April 8, Plymouth, Mass.
Sat, April 15, Portland, Maine

I hope I've helped end the confusion.

    Thanks, Matt!  Very interesting!  Now I have to sort and see 
    what my kids are - with household pets the markings would not
    be as pure as with a purebred.
    
    I think Lara is still a patched classic tabby, with "white" 
            Katenka sure does have islands of color, some of the
             islands have spots and/or stripes - I call her a
             calico tabby, but I guess the world would call her
             a torbie.
    
    Thanks Matt!
    
    E.T.

I am cat-sitting for a cat who would be a sterling example of a torbie
except that she's grey and peach-colored instead of black and red.  It
seems that since grey is light black and the peach color is probably
a dilution of red that there should be some category for her (dilute
torbie perhaps?).  Is this some recognized pattern?  I've seen other
cats that are grey/pink before but never saw the relation until reading
Matt's note.

Pam

    Blue-cream is the name given by CFA to cats that have the colors
    that you describe.  Whether or not she is a blue-cream torbie would
    depend on the pattern.
    
    CFA calls Blue-cream calico cats "dilute calico".
    
    Jo

    Sounds like she is a blue-cream, or a blue-cream torbie.  I have
    a cat that sounds similar (Bailey).  She's a blue-cream mackeral 
    torbie according to some judges, just a regular blue-cream to others.
                                                   
    Jan                             
    
    Jo, we must've been entering this at the same time, 'cept I had
    to edit mine so you beat me back in.

Thanks for the quick replies.  As a kitten, we thought she was all grey
except for this peach-colored patch on one eye.  As she got older, it
was obvious that the eye patch was striped (peach/tan) and that she had
small pinkish blotches all over.  That's why I called her a possible
torbie, rather than a tortie.  Maybe she's patched - it's had to tell
from Matt's description;  maybe you have to see one to know one.

At any rate, she's a wonderful cat.  Long-haired, heart-shaped face,
green eyes, and extremely intelligent.

Pam