Conference misery::feline_v1

    Our 6 month old kitten, Tashti, gets carried away with biting too.
    Though just recently he has gotten much better, he used to sit and
    purr contentedly one moment and be trying to tear off your hand
    the next.  I always hoped it was teething related, but I think he
    just has an "aggressive" streak in him.  Funny thing is, he almost
    never bites/attacks my finance, but he'll constantly do it to me.
    Tashti isn't easily discouraged either... when gently thrown away
    when he's biting, he'll come back attacking with a vengeance.
    
    I tried to figure out why Tashti so rarely bit my fiance but always
    bit me... (even when Tashti bit my fiance, he'd usually stop
    immediately when a "NO" was said and go away-- I can yell "NO",
    "BAD KITTY", move Tashti away etc. all to no effect.)  Anyways,
    Mark (my fiance) said that when Tashti bit him when Tashti was younger,
    Mark would give me a good swat on the nose.  I think Mark's earned
    Tashti's respect and he doesn't attack him anymore.  So, I tried
    swatting Tashti a little harder (I used to give him gentle taps).
    Boy you should see the surprised look on Tashti's face when I gave
    him his first good swat!  I've had to repeat several times, but
    now a yell of "NO, BAD KITTY, NO BITE etc." usually does the trick.
    I'm also hoping that when he gets neutered in a few weeks, that'll
    calm him down somewhat.
    
    I guess I'd advise being stern since your kitty needs to learn and
    understand that biting will not be tolerated.  Kitty teeth hurt!
    I wish you luck with Bob (alias Fang 8^).
    
    Ruby_who_loves_her_Tashti_very_much_but_won't_tolerate_biting!
    

    Five to six months is usually the age that a kitten is getting its
    adult teeth in.  Just like babies, they feel the need to chew on
    something to help relieve the pain.  Try giving him toys to chew
    on when he starts biting your hands.
    
    Jo

    
    I discouraged T.K. from biting me by making it rather uncomfortable
    for him to do so.  If he bites your hand, grip his chin and squeeze
    a little, maybe poke your finger around on his tongue or the roof
    of his mouth but don't choke him.  He will immediately try to pull
    away.  T.K. eventually got the idea that if he bit me, he couldn't
    close his mouth.  On occasion, he will still grab my hand with his
    teeth but now he is very gentle about it, never even breaking the
    skin.  
    
    Try it, I think it will work!
    
    Karen
           

    Keep your C.A.T (Cat Adjustment Tool) handy at all times.  The classic
    C.A.T. is a plastic pump bottle set to squirt, not spray.  The ones
    made for gardening are usually the best; they have the required
    range.
    
    Use your verbal cue, i.e. "HEY! KNOCK IT OFF!", etc. and let the
    little beggar have a blast of water from the C.A.T.  Nobody gets
    hurt, the cat gets SERIOUS negative reinforcement, and everybody
    is happy.  
    
    Nicer than swatting or drop-kicking, certainly as effective, and
    the cats HATE it.
    
    Then toss a "teething toy" to the kitty and let it munch to it's
    furry little hearts content.
    
    MM       
    
    P.S.  C.A.T.s are great for readjusting almost any cat behavior,
          from garbage picking to curtain climbing.  Just be quick (i.e.
          do it during or immediately after the behavior) and consistent.

    re:2  Right on - you should start seeing little teeth around your
    house - take a look in his mouth - you may see double canine teeth
    - the deciduous (baby) tooth and the adult tooth - both in place
    for a while until the deciduous tooth drops out.  You may try
    rubbing around in his mouth with your finger - he may like it
    or if his mouth is sore he will let you know that he doesn't.
    Tap his nose or the top of his head with a finger or rub between
    his ears - to distract him when he is biting.
    
    E.T.
    

    Little Julie, who hasn't begun to loose her baby teeth yet, will
    occasionally bite her real Mom when they're playing.  Meg swats
    her across the top of the head and Julie immediately stops.  It's
    been interesting having a Cat-Mom and her baby around to see how
    she corrects behaviour.  When Julie bit my hand a week or so ago,
    I popped her on the top of the head with a finger and she hasn't
    done it since.
    
    Mary

      My Tabby, rest his soul, used to be the most vicious kitty I
    know when he was a baby. He used to hide around corners and launch
    himself at my ankles, with ears back, teeth sinking as deep as 
    possible. Or he'd be on a bookcase or someplace high and hurl
    his body through the air, claws bared, ready to rip your neck
    apart. He would attack terribly for no reason, always with the
    ears back, teeth really hitting home.
      It could have been part teething, part oncoming masculinity,
    and part just plain nasty. But he did get better after being
    fixed. So, I don't think it was even 10 months in all, that the
    really bad part lasted.
      After that, for a while longer, he only attacked if he absolutley
    could not go out. He was a championship mouser and he knew it.
    That was his big joy in life, hunting. I'm sure I'll never meet
    another cat as determined to spend his time hunting as Tabby was.
    
    
                      Denise 

         Fluffy still bites at the tender age of 6 years (yep, years,
    not weeks or months).  Maybe it's time for the C.A.T. ... 8*) !
    
                                    - Andrea

    RE: .2
    
    I wonder if Cloud could be teething on Norman? :-)
    
    RE: .8
    
    I don't think Norman will ever grow out of his biting habit. He
    attacked my hand last night--I think he was just sick of me petting
    him, but I was still furious.
    
    I tried the C.A.T. spray bottle for about 5 months and it didn't
    work at all. It just made him madder and more apt to bite me. He
    was also totally nondiscriminating about who he bit. Anyone who
    walked into my house was fair game for "Norman the psycho-kitty"
    At least he's mellowed out a little bit--I get small holes in my
    hands every few weeks. He just seems to be naturally aggressive!
    
    Michelle

    Niniane went through a biting stage, but she rarely broke the skin
    and it was at an age when I assumed she was teething.  She doesn't
    bite now except occasionally when she gets carried away playing.
    A menacing "Heyyy..." usually does the trick.  Charm will nip when
    she is estastically happy, as when you're rubbing her tummy.  This
    I attribute to being a sign of affections, as she too will not break
    the skin, and is always very gentle.
    
    Mary-Michael

Tsunami use to bite real hard and draw blood!!  Now that she's 9 months 
she still bites. It hurts but she never draws blood anymore.  
After reading some of these notes I decided to grab her lower jaw if she bit
my hand and rap her on the nose if she bit me anywhere else.  It's working!!
Last night she bit my ankle and I rapped her on the nose and said "NO!".
A minute later she went for my ankle again, but stopped before biting me.
Later, she bit my hand and I grabbed her jaw.  She looked at me as if to say
"what in the world are you doing!?" and sat there looking at me like she
was trying to decide what to do next.  She didn't bite me the rest of the
night.
I'm sure she'll need to be reminded tonight, but hopefully this punishment
routine will pay off permenantly.

Becky

    	Hi Karan, glad to hear Bob still a little terror...I remember
    	reading somewhere that some cats get so worked up while you're
    	petting them that they kindof `don't know what to do with 
    	themselves' and biting you is a way of releasing their tension,
    	like a misplaced act of aggression. So, actually, it can be
    	their way of telling you they're having a great time! (I'm sure
    	this isn't true of ALL cats, but if you think about it, it 
    	kindof makes sense...) I like the grabbing the jaw idea, but
    	I think you should also make a point of not petting him for
    	a while after he bites you, like `if you're going to bite me,
    	I'm not going to pay attention to you'. My cousin used to have
    	a cat that did bit me every time I touched it, while it was
    	purring, no less! I started to ignore her, and now she comes
    	to me to be petted, so maybe it goes away as they get older.
    	Good luck!
    
    	Sherry
    

    
         My kitty Sharmin will come up to you purring and kneading like
    crazy, and after you pet her for about a minute she will attack
    full heartedly, ears back and ready to draw blood.  She only does
    this once in a while, and she doesn't do it to me very often anymore.
    She is 10 years old now and still can be as mean as ever!  Now it
    has been reported by my husband that she "chased" his ankles and
    attacked him brutally.  
    
         Oh well, she must be doing something wrong, we aren't trained
    good enough!    
    
    Willa and Sharmin
                                            

    I remember seeing an article in Cat Fancy a few months back about
    a really aggressive cat and how the owner trained him out of biting.
    If I remember correctly, it involved grabbing the cat by the scruff
    of the neck (while supporting the rest of his body) and giving a
    little shake.  This is apparently what a mother cat will do for
    more severe discipline.  The cat was then unceremoniously dumpped
    into the bathroom as banishment for a time.  Gradually the attacks
    lessened.
      I'll try to find the article.  Does anyone else remember this?
      Nancy DC
    

re: -.1

Yes, gripping firmly by the scruff, lifting just the front legs off the
floor, lap, or whatever and shaking once or twice (not hard, just a good
firm shake while making eye contact and saying "NO!" in a firm voice) and
then banishing to a lonely room for approx. 20 minutes DOES WORK....I
had to teach Hannah, my latest addition to the family, her manners when
she moved in and this was the technique I used.  In approx. 2 weeks I
had a completely different kitten.  I figure she was removed from her
mom too early and then she was ferel for awhile until her flea collar
got so tight she almost died so she hadn't learned how to act when
she got some attention.  She now loves to get tummy rubs, hugs, and
scratches behind the ear and she just gets up and leaves if she wants
me to stop...no more biting.  If you are consistent and careful not
to hurt the kitten, the technique really does work.  

There can be a situation, however, when people don't pay attention to
the cat's messages that are saying, "not now, please, I want to be
left alone"....if this is the case, then the person is no longer
loving the cat, but harrassing it...and they will be bitten or
scratched.  Sometimes the cat is not in the mood for the attention
or does not want the type of attention that is being offered.....
my Nicky does not like his tummy rubbed very often and will complain
if I attempt to touch it....if I must touch his tummy to check for
fleas or something I know I will get bitten after he has yelled at
me.  It's the price that is paid for "overstepping" my limits with
him.

    Just a word of caution here--PLEASE be very careful in regards to
    "tapping" the cat's nose.  It is a very sensitive organ, and extremely
    breakable.  Obviously it is very painful to the cat to have its
    nose tapped hard--it can bring 'tears' to its eyes.  I went through
    this with Billie, too, and read an article about re-education on
    biting.  The article suggested acting as a mom-cat as other noters
    have said--shaking, finger-pops on the head, etc.
    
    Just please be careful of their noses.
    
    Jane

    I have an adoptee (Neutered Maine Coon cat, approx. 4 yrs. old) who is
    doing something rather odd.  I've only had him for a few weeks (he was
    a stray), and he is extremely affectionate.  He was laying on my
    loveseat last night, and I was sitting on the floor in front of him. He
    was DEMANDING some attention (rubbing his chin against my head, purring
    his little heart out), so I began petting him.  After about 30 seconds,
    HE BIT ME!  He didn't bite and run, like I would expect him to do if he
    was upset, and we weren't playing. He just turned his head, chomped
    into my hand, and continue purring, as if it was a perfectly normal
    action.  Since he's so new, and I'm new to cat-owning, I didn't know
    what to do.  I yelled at him, but it didn't phase him at all.  He's
    very laid-back : )  I'm not terribly comfortable with him yet, since
    he's so new to my household and I'm so new at this, so I'm not sure how
    one goes about disciplining  a cat.  I have dogs...they're easy! I
    don't want to frighten him, but I don't want to be bitten, either. Why
    would he bite me?  And how do I make myself understood that I want to
    continue petting him, but I don't appreciate the biting behavior? 
    Sarah
    

    Sounds like he was just giving you a "love bite"; a cat's way of
    showing affection.
    
    

    Sometimes cats can get a little overstimulated when petted, and they
    can do what your cat did, grab your hand it their teeth.  Be sure not
    to yank your hand away, or you might get bit worse, or he might try to
    grab you with his claws.  The best thing to do is to relax your hand
    completely, and tell him NO! in a firm tone.  Also, end the petting
    and/or play session right there, get up and walk away.  This will show
    him that what he is doing is unacceptable behavior.  
    
    I have found that this type of biting is much more common with males
    (neutered and otherwise) than with females.  The males tend to be more
    sensitive to being overstimulated.  It is an sign of affection, but it
    does hurt so should be stopped.
    
    Jo

    I agree with .19.  I have such a baby myself, only she is female.
    With Holly, you can tell when she's about to go into chmop-mode,
    because her body tenses a bit.  When she does that, i stop petting her
    immediately.  I don't leave her, however, because she'll calm down
    by herself.  She's also adverse to having the back part of her
    back petted (the front part is okay), so you might watch and see if
    your cat has the same thing happening as well and avoid whatever area
    is Off Limits.
    

My Alex does that too and I just thought he was possessed.

I couldn't figure out why he was biting me, when he seemed otherwise in a good
mood and I was petting him nicely, then all of a sudden - CHOMP!

He also feels the need to bite my big toe every morning on my way to the
bathroom - probably to get my attention and maybe also to say "good morning"!?

Dawn

I knew a boy cat that would nip as if to say,
"Don't pet me _there_ , pet me HERE!"
then rub against my hand again.

TB

    Then again there's the Don't stop petting me! Chomp!  You didn't think
    you could leave did you?!!
    

    I once knew a Siamese (traditional) named "boy" who liked to have 
    his "butt beat".  Seriously, he liked you to pat him at the base
    of his tail VERY firmly.  He'd purr and drool and make happy
    faces and if you stopped he'd turn around and grab your hand
    in his mouth accompanied by this vocalization that VERY obviously
    meant "Don't stop".
      Boy was rather unusual.  (RIP Boy)
      Nancy DC
    

    AH...the Butt Beat!   My little girl, Abby loves to have her
    backend rubbed very hard.  As a matter of fact when she wants
    you to do this...she will come over to you and rub your leg...
    and if you don't listen...she takes a small chomp at your calf.
    
    The harder you rub...the harder she purrs.   Then when you try and
    stop she backs up her butt right back into your hands.  She actually
    walks backwards to do this.
    
    Sandy

    Well, Boy didn't like to be rubbed - he liked to be patted.  You know -
    "spanked".  What a kinky cat!
    

	*All* my Siamese like to have their flanks patted.  Our boy
	Tas will stretch himself out on the rug and pull himself along
	by his front paws, purring ecstatically.  It's so funny to 
	watch!

	Sandy 

    Nancy:
    
    That's interesting because both the Siamese males I've had enjoy the
    same sort of "spanking".  Ting used turn into a bumbelling mass of
    drool and almost loose it.  He'd close his eyes and when he'd open them
    it was like he didn't know where he was.  Gino enjoys the same kind of
    "kitty patts" but seems to have a little more dignity about him self. 
    I just love it when he's purring and his toung is sticking out of his
    mouth and his eyes are shut and he looks like a total fool!  I've read
    that Siamese are supposed to be decendents from the royal house - seems
    like it should have been "fun house".
    
    Giudi
    +3
    

Dilly, my Birman kitten, has a very definite way of informing me I am too
restless at night....she steps up on my chest, yells at me, and then nips the
end of my nose.  It is very clear what the problem is....she then steps back
to the side and curls up to go to sleep.  After that, I only get 2 more "roll
overs" before she chastises me again.  I told her that she was going to have
to accept that programmers sometimes don't sleep well until the code is working,
but she ain't buying that..."Leave it at work, Mom!" is her attitude.

But then, when she gets tired of my working on the terminal, she steps up to
the keyboard and drops her paw down on the keyboard....gets my attention and
leads to interesting results....Dillycat doesn't mess around.

I guess I've been lucky, but in the 6 years I've had cats,
I've never been bitten, and it's been at LEAST 3 years since
I've been scratched (and they have claws!)! But I've now
been "bitten", and BOY it hurts!

This weekend we got Gracie bred, and I was petting the male.
Guess he was a little excited, cause without warning he
turned, bit my hand, and ran! The breeder was so upset!
But I was in tears! Since the breeder is also a judge, she
said her doctor told her the best thing to do for cat bites
is to run very warm, soapy water over the area, and then
put neosporin on the wound. I'm happy to say, it never
swelled, or turned red, but it did hurt like #&*$&!!

I look like Dracula bit my hand! So, now I know what it
feels like -- since I'll be breeding, guess I'm in for
a lot more!

Cheryl

    I have been breeding for 6 years now and haven't been bitten Cheryl, so
    it isn't a given.  (knock wood).  You did learn an important lesson
    though about whole males.  They are unpredictable.  And, when there is
    a female around that is in season, don't pet the male, or pick him up,
    or anything (unless he is your cat and you know him really, really
    well).  I have had friends who have had nasty bites from their own
    males, because they tried to pick up the female or pick up the male, or
    otherwise interfere during a breeding.
    
    I was with a friend once when she got bitten badly.  The closest thing
    I could find to a antibiotic was a tube of terramycin, (this happened
    at a show and they didn't have anything in their first aid kit,
    wouldn't you know it).  I washed her hand with soapy water and then
    slathered her with terramycin eye ointment.  I worked like a charm. She
    didn't get an infection, and the swelling subsided quickly.  So,
    there's another good reason to keep terramycin around the house. :^)
    
    Glad that the breeder knew what to do for you.  I have seen folks get
    bad bites and have their arms swell up from it, and infection set it. 
    Then the pain lasts and lasts until the infection is gone.  Judges tend
    to get bitten more frequently than the rest of us since they have to
    handle so many strange cats.
    
    Boy, this is a year of firsts for you!  First show cat, first show,
    first season, first breeding, first bite, first litter!!!  :^D  At
    least most of these have been pleasurable. :^D
    
    Jo

    I tried the suggestions in here with Spike last night.  I was petting
    him, his pur-motor was in high gear, he bit me, and I said "NO".  He
    looked VERY offended, so much so that he left!  He jumped off the
    couch, turned his back to me, and scratched at the door to go back out
    into the  hallway.  Guess I hurt his little feelings : ( 
    I hope he gets over it soon.  He's getting pretty comfortable with me,
    even recognizes the sound of my car coming down the street and waits
    to greet me.  After reading the subsequent notes, I guess I'm lucky he
    didn't break the skin.  If these are "love bites", as someone
    suggested, I don't want THAT much love : ) He hurts!!!
    Sarah
    

    An alternative to NO is to start crying/sniffling, etc. and generally
    carrying on as though you've been somewhat hurt.  This not only avoids
    the I'm leaving huff, but brings out the Dr. Cat syndrome.
    
    Don't overdo it or make it too loud or you'll scare him.
    

    We used to use OUCH with Isis when she was too rough.
    
    re: Bites - I got bitten by Alice's Thor a few weeks ago.  He REALLY
    HATES having his nail trimmed but he had some serious matts that he
    needed groomed and my friend Margaret was coming over to do it.  So
    Alice and I decided to trim his nails before Margaret arrived.   Now
    Thor is the sweetest kitty in the world.  Not a nasty bone in his
    body.  He was just REALLY upset at getting his nails done.  So, he
    took it out on my left arm.  
    
    Hurt like a B@$%@#* but I didn't let him know it.  I washed the
    area off with soap and water, then hit it with some hydrogen peroxide.
    I didn't even use any antibiotic.  None of the puncture marks got
    so much as slightly inflammed.  I DID have some bruising however. ;^)
    
    BTW - I've not gotten bitten by any of my breeders that I recall.
      Nancy DC
    

re: danger of cat bites

yes, they can be dangerous...however, just remember that a human (or other
omniverous critter) bite is twice as dangerous.  We have much "dirtier"
mouths than our cats....but our teeth ARE blunter...