Conference misery::feline_v1

re:  WEANING

>    My questions - should they be eating on their own yet (or at least
>    eating/nursing)? Also, will Patch decide when to stop nursing or
>    will she nurse until her supply is depleted? Should I maybe try
>    something other than Purina Kitten Chow.  Since this is the first
>    time I have ever had a cat with a litter, I'm just unsure of what
>    to do/expect and would appreciate any comments from you folks. 

Is this Kitten Chow some sort of dry food?  If so, it's way too soon to be 
giving them that.

Try them with a gruel made from baby's rice cereal, KMR, and baby veal, 
chicken, turkey, or beef.  When they're eating that enthusiastically, go 
down on the rice cereal and KMR.  Then start mixing in canned cat food (but 
not the chunky kinds right away).  (KMR is Kitten Milk Replacment.  Don't 
use milk.  Your kittens will get the runs.)

The queen will get sick and tired of them nursing, and eventually chase 
them away, but not for another couple months or so.

Ray

    
    The woman who owned the mom to my Mielikki and Ishtar helped the mom to
    wean during the 5th or 6th week.  She got the most smelly wet cat food
    (liver?), put some on her finger, held the kitten's mouth open with the
    other hand (while it was standing up, not while it was on it's back),
    and placed the food on it's tongue. The kitten would smack around a
    little at first, then realize it tasted good and start eating on its
    own. 
    
    It looked silly, it was messy, and though I *know* my cats have no
    problem eating today :-), I don't know if its the proper thing to do.
    Anyone (dis)agree with this method? 
    
    

    I guess we all have our own mixture of "Kitten Grewel".  I mix a
    small amount of canned food with Iams Kitten and hot water.  After
    it is all mushy, I feed it to the kids, (adults and kittens).  The
    kittens will usually just follow mom and eat it because she is.
    
    5 weeks is too young for them to begin eatting dry food.
    
    cin
    

    
    Thanks to all for your advice/suggestions.  
    
    I've been mixing the kitten chow with warm water to make it mushy
    for them.  They are just not interested.  However, 2 of them discovered
    Mom's food dish and dove in to her canned food.  I think it's a
    little early for that.  I moved mom's dish to the top of the counter
    where they can't get at it (yet).  Maybe I should try mixing just
    a little canned food with the kitten chow and water.
    
    Thanks again!
    
    Janet
    

    I don't think there's any reason why they shouldn't eat the canned
    food, except it gets expensive!!!  But, your right, I would try
    adding a small amount of canned to the kitten chow.
    
    cin
    

    I buy Kal Can, 4 cans for a dollar, where each cat eats 1/2 a can a day
    and my kitty eats 1 can a day ('cause he has to get big!). That's 50
    cents a day for 2 cats and 1 kitten, which I don't think is expensive
    (I drink more than that in soda!).  What kind of wet food are you
    buying?  Maybe you should switch to a lower price brand. I find Kal Kan
    is usually lowest and "it has a multivitamin in every can". ;-) 
    
    I leave dry food down for nibbling, but it lasts a while 'cause
    they prefer the wet food.
    

    The only canned food aja-major will eat is Amore Chicken Hearts
    and Livers, fresh from the can, room temperature. Anything else,
    she eats and then blows all over the floor to show me the error
    of my ways...
    
    Edd

    Re: .7
    
   2 cats and 1 kitten only eat 2 cans a day!!!!!
    
    How much dry with that?
    
    My 2 beasts were eating 4 cans a day, plus afew crunchies for their
    teeth.
    
    Can your cats come tach my cats how to be light eaters?
    
    	-nancy

    RE: .7
    
    One other nice thing about KalKan is that it causes the cat to produce
    a slightly more acidic urine, so it can be be helpful in preventing
    problems in FUS susceptible kitties.
    
    Deb

    
    Realize that my cats are indoor only so do not get a lot of excercise.
    1/2 can a day each for the cats keeps one on the 'pudgy' side and the
    other on the 'average but could get pudgy' side.
    
    I usually add a half cup - cup of dry food to the bowl a day.  When
    it's hot, they don't eat as much.  Mostly it's the 'pudgy' one who
    munches the dry food and the one waiting by the empty bowl if I've
    been forgetting to add to it. :-)
    
    I never thought my cats were light eaters, I thought I *overfed*
    them. ;-)  If my cats came over to meet your cats they would want
    to stay for the extra food. :-)
    
    

    Lucky eats a pouch a day with some friskies(dry) on the side.  He
    is an indoor/outdoor cat and he lets us know once in a while that
    it's not enough.  He goes out and hunts rabbit parts, rat parts,
    and bird parts to leave by the back door as a reminder that he likes
    meat too!  He is 6 years old but he's not slow!!  (never see anything
    but the parts!!)  Oh yes, He has to see us pour it out of the bag
    or it's not fresh enough for him.  Sound familiar??
    
               Ken and lucky

    Well, three of the four kittens are now eating on a regular basis.
    The third still prefers Mom's milk but will nibble now and then.
    I'm still giving them the Kitten Chow with water but have started
    mixing in a little canned food and they just love it.  Problem is,
    so does Mom.  When I first started putting it down to them, I thought
    it was disappearing rather quickly.  Then I discovered Mom eating
    it.  Now I make sure there is enough for all.
    
    They are getting so big and beautiful.  It sure will be hard to part
    with them when it is time for them to go (2 are going, 2 are staying).
                                              
    Janet
    

    I may have to switch to KalKan.  I'm currently buying fancy feast
    for my 2 yr. old and my 5 month old.  They both eat a can a day.
    The kitten, Tiggers, can't seem to get enough.  When he finishes
    his bowl he goes to Snuggle's food and cleans his bowl.  I'm really
    afraid of giving him too much because I don't want him to get fat.
    He's just the right size now.
    
    I know I'm going to have to do something soon.  When he poops it
    really smells bad and it's really soft so sometimes it gets on his
    rear end. What a mess!
    
    Unfortunetly, my kitties are very fussy eaters.  Tiggers won't eat
    kitten chow and I've tried other brands without much success.  I
    guess they'll just have to eat a new brand or starve :-).
    
    Kathy

    (It's really Mary, incognito in the U.K. for the week....)
    
    Gee, that doesn't sound like enough food for a 5 month old.  My
    vet always advised me to feed kittens as much as they would eat.
    Not feeding him won't keep him from getting fat, or keeping him
    at the 'right size'; it might cause malnutrition which will cause
    him health problems down the road.  Kittens need at least twice
    the nutrition as a mature cat.
                        
    I'm feeding my little Girl Mom Fancy Feast and Sciene Diet growth,
    and boy, do her poops smell!!!  And feeding her the 5 or 6 cans
    of FF a day gets a bit expensive!  But she won't eat food that's
    dried out or cold or 'leftover', so I put up and shut up!
                                                              
    KalKan is really good food, and you might be able to get the large
    can and split it 1/3 for Snuggle and 2/3 for Tiggers.  I sure hope
    it smells better coming out than going in!!
    
    Mary

    Hi Mary!  I agree on feeding kittens a bit more - from my
    experience I found that fish-flavored cat food caused more
    odor in the box than beef, chicken , or liver!  
    
    E.T. 

    I guess I will feed him more.  I was giving him 2 cans a day for
    a while, but then his little tummy would get big and round in no
    time.  I thought he was getting too much so I cut him back to 1
    can and dry food left out all day.
    
    Thanks for the advice.
    
    Kathy

    It may be that the fancy feast doesn't have enough staying power
    (sort of like eating Chinese Food - hungry an hour later). 
    

    Elaine,
    
    I can't stand the smell of any cat food with fish, either going
    in or coming out!
    
    Kathy,
    
    I don't think that little pot belly is much to be concerned about.
    He burns it off so quickly, there isn't a chance of it turning to
    a 'beer belly'.  And that little tummy is soooo cute!  I noticed
    that my baby kittens get roly-poly after a good meal from Mom. 
    I miss them!!
    
    Have you tried various kitten dry foods, like Science Diet, IAMS,
    etc.?  I can pick up a couple samples for you next week, if you
    like.  I never had much success with Kitten Chow, either.
    
    Mary

    Well, I started giving Tiggers 2 cans in the morning and that seems
    to satisfy him.  He didn't even touch Snuggles food!
    
    Mary, were do you get the samples, at the vets?  If so, Tiggers
    goes to the vets tomorrow for some shots and a physical.  I'll ask
    the vet if they have them.  
    
    If not, I may just pick some up at the pet store near me.  I'm sure
    my vet will probably tell me I should be giving him some type of
    kitten food.
    
    Thanks for offering anyway.
    
    Kathy

    Kathy,
    
    You might try softening some of the IAMS kitten (or another brand,
    IAMS is what I use) and serving it that way.  It will get Tiggers
    used to the flavor of the dry so that he will recognize it as food.
    It also doesn't spoil as quickly as the canned.  
    
    You can also try mixing a small amount of canned with the mushed
    up dry for flavor.  
    
    Lots less expensive than feeding just canned and I think it's better
    for them too.  You will probably notice the added benefit of a better
    smelling litter box (if there is such a thing! ;-))
    
    purrs
    cin
    

       I've been having problems with a member of a mixed litter. Two
    bobtails and two with tails (not stubbies). One of the Manx has been
    getting very thin the last couple of days. We noticed that the males
    ones with tails are much more agressive feeders and have been pushing
    the bobtails off of their mom. I wasn't overly concerned as they seemed
    to be getting enough. Well when she started getting lethargic and going
    off sleeping by herself (they're just over 5 weeks old) I became very
    anxious esp when she sleeps in the litter box. We got some KMR which
    she really didn't seem to want got maybe 4 eyedroppers worth into her.
    So last night in a panic I tried some Gerber strained chicken. She ate
    two heaping tsp full at 6:00 and again at 10:00. She then crawled off
    and went to sleep. She spent most of the night in the litter box. No
    idea if she nursed or not. A little concerned and knowing that mom cat
    seems to be trying I decided to leave the mom and weak kitten in the
    bathroom and the rest in another room with lots of food. This in the
    hope that weak baby will benefit from uninterrupted feeding. I know I
    may be overreacting but one of the bobtails died last week and I don't
    wish a repeat. At least this one still bats his siblings in the head or
    rolls over on her back to let you scratch her belly. Any more
    suggestions for a concerned parent?? The kitten that died last week
    appeared malformed ie it had a clear discharge from the bottom for a 
    few days before it died. It appeared to have died of pneumonia. Current
    weak kitten is still active but doesn't look 100% there.
    
    
       Bob

    My feeling is that you have good reason to be concerned, especially
    if you lost one of the kittens last week.  My suggestion, get the
    weak one to the vet pronto.  
    
    If one kitten could catch pneumonia, so can the others.  I lost
    three kittens to pneumonia last winter, and don't wish that experience
    on anyone.  Had my kittens been older, they may have survived with
    the help of antibiotics.  They were only two weeks old when they
    died.
    
    Sleeping in the litter box is usually related to stress.  Also,
    you may have to continue to feed the weak one, cause as it's food
    intake goes down, so does it's strength, and soon it won't have
    the energy to nurse or eat.  Dehydration is a very big problem in
    sick kittens.  It doesn't take long for them to become completely
    dehydrated.  
    
    I don't use KMR on the kittens that need supplementing.  I have
    a recipe that my vet and I created that seems to help kittens thrive.
    I will give it to you if you want.  Also, an eyedropperful isn't
    enough for a 5 week old kitten.  The formula for figuring the amount
    to feed is 1cc per ounce of body weight, per feeding.  So, if the
    kitten is 1 pound, then feed it 16cc's per feeding.  You will need
    to get either a bottle, Catac nurser (special glass nurser, very
    good), or a tube feeding kit.
    
    You may also want to get some Pediactric-Stat.  It is a gooey liquid
    nutrition product.  It is very high in calorie, so helps maintain
    the kitten's energy, and it also has vitamins and minerals.  Your
    vet will probably have it.
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Jo
    
    Send me mail if you need help with this.
    

    Oh Bob, I'm so sorry about the babies.  Would it be possible for you
    to have your sick baby and other female bobtail checked by a vet?  I'll be
    glad to contribute towards the checkup. Maybe mom cat isn't supplying
    enough milk for all of her babies; the two males seem to be the strongest
    in the litter. 
    
    Let me know about the vet, Bob.

    I have found that very often, the male kittens will be bigger, and
    hence stronger and more able to fight at the milk bar.  At five
    weeks old, these guys should be eating some solid food too, so mom
    not having enough milk shouldn't be that much of a problem at this
    age.  If you haven't started the litter on solid food, you should
    do so now.  The quickest and easiest way that I have found to teach
    older kittens to eat solids is to pour some KMR over some dry kitten
    food to soften it.  The odor of the milk will attract them to the
    food.  Gradually, day by day, decrease the amount of milk until
    they are eating only dry food.  Some kittens get the hang of it
    right away, others prefer mom and won't seem to learn.  Those are
    the ones that you need to help.
    
    Jo

        Well I called my wife at 1:30. She managed to feed the weak one 
    approx 1 oz twice this morning and mom nursed her for 5 minutes in
    between. The immediate result is she started to roughouse again. Too
    early for a Yehah!! and she was once again snuggling with her siblings.
    The wife powdered her (I disapproved!!) saying she noticed more fleas
    than she was comfortable with. Hope this doesn't set her back. It is
    powder from the Vets though. I think Re:23 hit the nail on the head
    though. The boys just don't seem to want to eat anything but mom
    finest. They even nurse standing up while mom is preening herself and
    still push little sister out when she finally lays down. I'll be taking
    tomorrow off so if there's no improvement to the vets she goes.
    
    
       Thanks,
    
    
       Bob

    You might get a fine tooth comb to comb out fleas.  This would keep
    them down to a manageable level without powder for awhile.
    

       Well she's over the hump now. We took her to the vets on Friday.
    She had just made her firts little poop so we brought that along for a
    worm check. He diagnosed her as having and upper respiratory infection
    and slightly anemic. He gave us gunk to put in her eyes an anti-biotic
    and some hight calorie brown goop to get some nutrients into her. He
    also opened a can of Vets cat food to see what she'd do (nothing!).
       We were bound for NH as I had a leg to run in a relay race Sat A.M.
    She got us up at 12:30 and my wife for the umpteenth time forcefed her.
    At about 3:45 she woke me up again (the wife was too eshausted to hear
    her crying). I got up and made up some KMR within minutes it was gone.
    She's been eating everything we put in front of her since then. Well
    she's back home now and other than the fact that she's smaller than her
    siblings she every bit as rough and tumble as they are now. Thanks for
    all of your support fellow feliners.
    
         Bob

    Bob,
    
    That is great news.  Sounds like she is well on her way to complete
    recovery.
    
    Jo