Conference misery::feline_v1

    Oh, by the way, both the vet and the humane society advised AGAINST
    using a HAV-A-HART trap to catch the kittens.  Their concern is
    that (1) most kittens do not go into the trap, and (2) if we catch
    momma kitty by mistake, she will loose her trust in us and we will
    never get her babies.  They really believe that she will lead her
    kittens to us for food after they are weaned.
    
    Anyone agree??
    

    Waiting sounds like a good idea to me.
    

    I remember a note quite a while back from a woman who had a similar
    problem - she, too, waited and the mom always brought the babies
    to her deck for food after they were weaned.  She, if I remember
    correctly, did use the trap for adults with no babies.  Good Luck!

    Well, having copious amounts of experience with such things, I'll
    stick in my $.02...
    
    My feral Moms always bring their babes to my deck as soon as they're
    old enough (about 8 weeks, I suppose).  They will continue to nurse
    from Mom until she doesn't want them to!  I've seen a Mom carry
    her kittens right up on to the deck and drop them in front of the
    food supply I always have available.  Last spring, a Mom brought
    her two obviously sick babies to me, and I trapped them right away.
    My experience has been that kittens are very easy to trap.
    
    If you can grab Mom, get her inside, then trap the babes and bring
    them to her (don't try to handle them!  They'll tear you to shreds!)
    you might have success.  It will take some time for them to get
    used to you, but it will be worth it.  Once the babes get 'social
    skills' you can adopt them out.
                                         
    I have my own trap (and skills to go with it).  Let me know if you
    want some help.
    
    Mary

    Thanks, Mary.  So what you are saying is that I should *not* be
    bringing food out to the rocks but leave it on my deck so that mom
    will *have* to bring her babies there?  One of the main reason I
    leave food by the nest is not so much for momma kitty but for daddy
    kitty, who is ultra ferel and will not eat on my porch (he has tried
    but my Chauncey practically tore him to shreds!).  What do the kittens
    do when they see you?  Do they get scared and run or continue to
    eat???
    
    I was thinking of giving you a call since I remember reading past
    notes about you having experience with this sort of thing.  I am
    hoping that Karissa will bring me her babies real soon.
    

    The babies will do whatever Mom does.  In most cases, if Mom sits
    by while they eat, they'll sit and eat.  I get to the point with
    mine that I can actually sit on the deck with them while they eat;
    I just had better not try touching them!  I had a funny situation
    once where Mom was busy eating and the babes were nursing from her
    while she stood and ate.  Cute!!
    
    I'd continue to leave the food near the rocks, but as they get older
    and most trusting, I'd move it closer and closer to the deck.  As
    they get older, Mom will take them out with her to play and hunt
    (which means getting onto the deck and picking the best bowl!).
    As for Dad cat, I have a feeling that he'll be too smart to be trapped.
    The most difficult ones I've trapped are the adult toms.  Very clever
    little buggers....
             
    Sounds like Mom really likes you, so pretty soon she'll trust you
    with her kids.  I'll bet the little ones are cute as buttons!
    
    Mary

    Thanks again, Mary.
    
    So far, I have only seen one kitten, but my friend swears she saw
    two.  All of mommas nipples look like they have milk, but that could
    mean the babies are just going from one to the next so none have
    dried up yet.
    
    The one I saw is so adorable.  I have decided not to leave the food
    by the rocks at all, but will continue to leave it on the balcony
    and so will Donna, my friend.  I just got off the phone with Donna
    who said that Karissa was at her house last nite too and ate a can
    of food.  Donna is very angry and resentful that Karissa will trust
    us enough to come into our homes for food but will not even pay
    us the slightest bit of attention by the rocks.  Why won't she bring
    us her kittens now?  They are certainly old enough to eat by
    themselves; they're even running; and quickly too!
    
    I feel that the longer I continue to leave food by the rocks, the
    longer it will take to get the babies.  I will continue to leave
    it on my deck and maybe some on the path leading to my deck and
    keep moving it closer each time.  Karissa has the best of both worlds
    right now and she knows it!  I had no idea that she was eating at
    Donna's last nite too!!  What a little brat!
    

    An update:
    
    Last nite I saw one of the kittens (only now I think there is only
    1, not 2; unless of course, there are many but all look alike!!!).
    It was romping with Karissa, who had just left my house after having
    dinner, near the path leading toward the condos.  When it saw me
    approaching, it took off into the woods, then Karissa called to
    it and it come out again and just stood at the edge of the woods
    looking at me, head cocked to one side.  I kept talking to both
    of them very softly and gently, taking little baby steps toward
    Karissa while speaking.  I thought that if I could get to Karissa
    and start petting her, then her kitten would feel more comfortable.
    Of course as soon as I reached Karissa and extended my hand, she
    ran off into the woods, kitten in pursuit.  Damn!  why won't she
    let me touch her while outside but acts like miss affectionate inside?!
               
    I am hoping that as she learns to trust me more and decides to wean
    her kitten, she will finally bring it to me.  Depending on how things
    progress, I just might cancel her spay appt. next week and give
    the situation a bit more time.
    

    Roberta, what about you wearing an old sweatshirt for a day -
    taking it (unwashed) and placing it near or right by the rocks.
    That way, mom would become used to your scent.  When she senses
    you near, maybe she won't run away so quickly.
    
    E.T.

    opps - what I wanted to add to .9 was, that's what I do when
    I take kids to the Vet for an overnighter.  I leave a towel
    ro sweatshirt of mine in the cage with them - the scent of
    home makes them feel a little more secure (if an animal
    can feel secure at the Vet's all alone).
    
    good luck

    Hi Elaine,
    
    That sounds like a good idea.  I also leave an old shirt in Chauncey
    & Nikki's cat carrier.  Don't know if it helps them, but it's the
    thought that counts, right?
    
    I will certainly try anything at this point.  The baby is so cute!
    It was looking at me with this "what the heck are you" look on its
    sweet face!
    
    Hope that once Miss Karissa decides to cut the apron strings, she
    will think of me as a substitue mom for her child.
    
    

    Hope it works, Roberta!  You know, it's funny.  I've often wondered
    how many baskets of kittens I would find on my doorstep after
    moving into Candia - folks around seem to know that I have lots
    of cats.  Only one little girl (she lives accross the road) has
    come by with a young cat to ask if it was one of mine that had
    been let out.  Someone in the area told me that folks up my way
    don't belive in spaying/neutering - that's why I thought I would
    be seeing lots of kittens turning up.  None yet, thank goodness!
    It sure is very hard turning them away when you are face-to-face
    with their sweet little faces! 
    
    I think that leaving something of ours helps a little.  I use it
    more with the kids that don't leave the house except to go to the
    Vet's.  The show kids don't seem to need it.  You might try a
    blanket (old one) rather than a shirt - just cause it's bigger!
    Good Luck!
    
    E.T.

    Hi Roberta,
    
    Don't take Mom in unless you've got the kitten in custody!  It's
    probably not weaned yet (cats in the wild nurse babes much longer
    than domesticated ones).  Give it a little more time.  Mom is raising
    the little one to be feral and to fend for itself.  It has never
    seen a human, or been touched by one, so it's reaction is normal.
    And Mom's #1 priority is to protect her babe.
    
    I don't have any feral babes yet (could it be that we've got this
    problem almost licked??  Nah....).
    
    Hang in there!
    Mary
    

    .12  <Someone in the area told me that folks up my way don't believe
          in spaying/neutering>
    
    Maybe you can help educate those people on the importance of spaying/
    neutering pets.  I think it's more a matter of money than belief.
    This is why there are feral cats/kittens and a real pet overpopulation
    problem in the country.  For people who have financial problems
    and may need assistance in this area, there are agencies who can
    help.  
    
    I'm sure you can get the necessary pamphlets on spaying and
    neutering from the Humane Society.  Try distributing them in Candia 
    and also ask the managers of local stores for permission to post the
    information.  You could be a tremendous help to the feline world
    by educating just one person or maybe the whole town. ;-)
    
    Pat
    
    
    

    Mary,
    
    I understand your concern; however, this baby is eating the moist
    food I was leaving out by the rocks and I am still very concerned
    about Karissa.  It could be weeks before her kitten(s) is weaned
    and she could have another litter by then and it's back to square
    one!
    
    She was in my house this morning.  Her midsection looks a little
    plump.  I felt both sides of her and it almost felt like she is
    pregnant again!  Her sides felt kind of lumpy.  Is this how mother
    kitten feels when she is nursing??
    
    My greatest concern here is the waiting.  I cannot spend my days
    and nites worrying about potential litters of kittens and infestations
    of ferel cats.  I want to keep the spay appt. next Thursday, but
    at the same time, am very apprehensive about her long-term reaction
    of being separated from her baby while it might still be nursing.
    I am fully prepared to leave plenty of food out for the kitten so
    it won't starve in mom's absence.
    
    Am I *really* doing the wrong thing?
    

    re:14
    
    Pat, folks I speak with in Candia are tired of hearing what
    a wonderful idea it is to spay and neuter!  Everyone that
    know I have cats know that they are all indoor cats and 
    that they are all altered.  I don't ever hesitate to educate
    when I have the opportunity.  One main reason household
    pet folk like to show their HHPs is the chance to educate
    large numbers of gate!  We lure them to our cages to see
    a kitty just like they have at home, make sure they read
    the little stories we put on top of our cages of where our
    cats came from - we also make sure they read the part about
    altering helps cut down on the unwanted pet population.
    I think that some of the older folk in Candia just are
    of the opinion that cats should be outside (dogs also) and
    that having kittens is just a way of life.  As I mentioned,
    I haven't seen any evidence of this belief yet, and am very
    relieved!  From what I had heard, I was expecting 2 baskets
    of babies a week on my porch!  Maybe the gossip at the post
    office was less than true!!
    I agree that it's a matter of money after the last spay bill
    for Malinka!!!  Even if folks don't have financial problems,
    it's hard to come up with $50 or 60 (or more) for just one
    cat - if they have a barn full, then forget it!  It just
    goes back to the Vet's again - more spay/neuter programs
    help, but I think that the problem will always exist - I also
    believe that there are just some problems in this world that
    will always exist - all we can do is help make them a little
    less awful for the poor animals.  
    
    E.T.