Conference misery::feline_v1

    It must be awefull for you right now, especially since it might
    be more than one cat.  But think of all those years you had with
    Tabby and remember the good times.  It sounds like he's had a long
    a love filled life.
    
    There are pet cemeteries, ask your vet, they probably could recommend
    some.  But if you have a plot of land (which it sounds like you
    do), burying him close to home might make you feel better.   Then
    you could put flowers and catnip on his grave to help you through
    the loss.  People are buried in wooden boxes, maybe your vet would
    have one of those.
    
    Or you could have him cremated and the ashes put into an urn, maybe
    spreading his ashes in the woods would make his spirit continue
    to roam.  I was told that most vets have some kind of crematorium
    as that is the way they take care of most deceased animals.

    Hope the results are negative on the rest of the family...
    
        
    

    My sister-in-law lost a cat to leukemia and the other one she had
    is still alive, four years later.  The two were acquired at the
    same time from a pile of kittens at a shelter and were inseparable.
    This may offer _some_ consolation, but no guarantees.  The vet advised
    that another cat not come home for 6 months, just to be sure that
    Alpha would still test negative.
    
    Maggie, the Grey-babies [Milo & Cardi] and I will hold the good
    thought and hope that your others are not affected.
    
    ------------
    
    When Aslan died, I wrapped him up in his favourite bed [one of my
    old ratty baby quilts] and buried him under the huge mesquite tree
    he used to sit under.  This was out in the country north of Dallas
    and I did have a bit of land.
    
    After I moved to New Hampshire and Teddy got sick, I had planned
    to bury him in one of the thickets at the back corner of the property.
    [Fully realising that this was probably breaking every city ordinance
    in the book, I didn't bother to even ask -- I'm nowhere _near_ the
    water supply so I don't feel guilty].  Again, I planned to wrap
    him in his bed and place him in an old chest that used to hold shell
    casings.  But Teddy died at Tufts and I had him cremated instead.
    
    I'm sure your vet would know what the prescribed procedure is. 
               
    
      Ann

    Sorry to hear about Tabby.  I have lost several to FeLV over the years,
    and know what it is like.  But...there are the others, and the
    memories.  You will have many more to keep you company over the years,
    and each will become special.  I found that overall it was easier
    to be with Pansy at the end, than it was with the others, which
    I left.  I knew firsthand that the end was easy, and she seemed to 
    be calmer too.  

    As for the contact - Pansy was the first diagnosed and the last
    to go.  We had others that lasted over ten years with her, so you
    never know.  I heard recently that it is a live virus, so when starting
    from scratch, you needn't wait.
    
    Time heals all wounds...
    
    Gary

    Is there someone in the notes file who is nearby you who can help
    you if you decide to bury him?  It's really grim to have
    to do it yourself, unless, of course, you would rather be alone.
    
    I am also sure your vet can make arrangements for you, ask him.
    
    As for the survival of other exposed cats, it absolutely does NOT
    mean that they will die.  Jasper from next door is still alive and
    well, years after his "sibling" Nepenthe died from leukemia.
    
    You might also ask the vet about the advisability of leukemia vaccine
    for the others.
     

    I have just mentally counted, and I know of four people who have
    buried their cats in their backyards, so I wouldn't have any qualms
    about doing this if you want to.
    
    I think it takes a few days for the leukemia virus to die out on
    surfaces, and my recollection is that when my first and at that
    time only cat died from leukemia, my vet said something like
    wait a week or two and discard "chew toys" and food and water dishes
    (that was really hard).  I waited a month just to be sure.
    

    I was so sorry for you when I read this note.  I know how hard this
    must be for you.  I do hope your other `babies' are going to be
    alright.
    
    Have they had their Leukemia shot?
    
    Sandi (Lightning's, DejaVu's & Thunder's mom)
    
    

    
    I too was very sorry to hear your terrible news.  Cremation sounds
    the nicest way as not only are you making sure the virus is not
    in your back yard but the sound of letting Tabby be a free spirit
    is so nice.  When Elsa died my landlord buried her in the garden
    for me but shortly after we both moved out...now Elsa is there all
    on her own, confined to the garden.  I still feel guilty.
    
    We will pray for you that your other babies are ok.
    
    Sharon
    

    My thoughts are with you too.  I hope the others will be okay.
    
    Best wishes,
    
    Karen

    I'm so sorry to hear about your baby.  I just had my baby put to
    sleep in January from leukemia, and he had been sick for several
    months (he didn't have weight loss and all the other types of symptoms,
    but he vomited constantly).  It was the hardest decision I ever
    had to make.
    
    In any case just because one of them has FeLV it doesn't mean they
    all will.  Several times after Space vomited, my other cat W.W.
    would go & attempt to eat (and occasionally was successful) whatever
    was left over.  They also ate & drank from the same dishes & were
    always near each other & groomed each other.  W.W. hadn't had his
    FeLV vaccine, but tested negative even after all this.  (Thank God
    for small miracles, huh ?)
    
    I had Space cremated at the vets because I wouldn't have dealt very
    well with burying him at all, regardless of the spot.
    
    Hope the other kitties are well - keep us posted.
    
    Keeping my fingers crossed for you,
    
    Joy (& W.W. & Punjab)

    I'm so very sorry to hear about your news.  Just try to remember
    all the good times you have spent with your baby.    I wish I could
    help ease your pain.  We are all thinking of you.
    
    Erin, RumTum, McCafferty & Bustopher

    I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.  When I got Charm, we went
    through her history with my vet, and at one time she tested positive,
    and the second test (I believe a more thorough one) three months
    later, was negative.  She is 7 years old and behaves like a kitten.
    My vet said that some cats will develop a natural immunity and throw
    the virus off, even without the shots.  My two are both vaccinated.
    Don't give up on your other kitties until the tests come back. 
    They could still give you many more happy, healthy years.  
    
    Burying a loved one is a hard thing to do.  When my first kitty
    died a couple of years ago, my Mom and Dad buried her in the backyard
    marked the spot with a stone and planted flowers around it.  It
    looks quite pretty and since Lucky was such a fussy and proper lady
    I'm sure it suits her quite nicely.  It's best to go with the type
    of memorial that suits your kitty, since that's the way you'll 
    remember them.
    
    Please accept our deepest sympathies.
    
    Mary-Michael, Niniane and Charm

    Mine, Zildjian and Spunky's sympathies.
    
    I had to put my mother's dog (13 years) down last year, she had
    her creamated and spread the ashes on my father's grave, since it
    was his "baby" to begin with.  Quite appropriate - I attended the
    ceremony and am glad I did - it helped me get it off my chest.
    
    Remember all the good times.
    
    

    I lost Brina a year ago to felv. I still miss her to this day. I
    know what you are going thru and wish things could be different.
    Brina had a tumor in her stomach that tripled in size in 4 days.
    I buried Brina in my backyard where she use to sit and watch the
    birds. You will know what is best for you kitty. I will keep my
    fingers crossed that none of your other babies have felv.
    Keep those memories and pictures. Mine have gotten me thru some
    really bad days.
    
    

    
    
    	I LOST A CAT TO FELINE LEUKEMIA WHEN I WAS 12 YEARS OLD.  THE
    DAY HE WAS PUT TO SLEEP MY PARENTS GOT ANOTHER KITTEN, CINAMON,
    WHO IS STILL ALIVE AND HEALTHY 12 YEARS LATER.  
    
    ooops, sorry about the caps.
    
    	Anyhow, the odds are against all 4 of your cats having also
    contracted the disease.  If fact, the odds are probably against
    any of the others being sick.  I will definately have my fingers
    crossed that this is true!!! 
    
    	Best of luck and hope to hear good news soon!
    
    	Karen (and T.K. and Bandit)

    Oh my!  I am SO sorry to hear this!  I don't know what to say, except
    to remember the good times, and stick close to the other kitties.
    
    I don't know what I would do if I got this kind of news.  I would
    be just CRUSHED!!  I hope you know that all of your feline friends
    are here for you and if you ever need any of us, just call.
    
    My Tabby sends to you her deepest sympathies.  
    
    Holly
    

    I too am sorry to hear about your cat, and that awful FeL.  We had
    to put my daughters cat to sleep a couple of years ago because of
    that. However the others two at home were fine. Frosty died at 
    18 1/2 of kidney failure due to old age 5 years later and Misty
    is still going strong at 15.
    
    Please rememeber the good times you had together. We found cremation
    to be the easiest when we had pets die or had to be put to sleep.
    
    Barbara
    

    I am sorry to hear your news.  As others have said, remember all
    those good times, and let them comfort you.  Once a cat "owns" you,
    *nothing* can separate you--your kitty has a permanent home in your
    heart.
    
    Please don't lose hope about the others!!  Just get them tested
    and keep us all posted.  We care!
    
    You're in my prayers,
    
    Jane & Billie

      Thanks so much for all the replies and concern. Catlovers are
    such a close group of people. It's so nice to have the sympathy
    and shared experiences from all over the DEC catlover world.
    
      The others will be having their test tomorrow morning. How long
    does the test take to get results back? Anyone know?
    If the results are negative, can they have vaccines right away or
    do they have to be retested 6 months later?
    
      If anyone knows, let me know, I've never had to do this before,
    and am surpised at how little I really know about the disease.
    Guess I just never thought it would happen to us.
    
    
                           thanks, Denise

    When the venerable old Missy kitty died at age 20, I had her cremated.
    When the vet gave me her ashes, they were in a can that is shaped
    like a coffee can.  I think the idea was that I'd sprinkle them
    somewhere, or put them in an ern.  I, however, did none of the above.
    Missy and her "coffee can" now live on top of my 'Fridge, which
    was one of her favorite spots.  I sometimes talk to her when one
    or more of my current gang is giving me trouble:  "Missy, did you
    _see_that_.  Have you ever  seen such a _naughty_kitty_ in your
    life???"
    
    
    I am so sorry to hear that your kitty is ill.  When I lost missy,
    I was inconsolable.  Just hold her in your heart.  She'll always
    be there.  Soon you will, like me, be telling people many hundreds
    of "venerable old kitty" storys.  Each time you do, you will know
    just how much richer your life is for knowing her.
    
    Marion
          

    re: 18
    
    from my experience with the tests:  it only takes the vet about
    1/2 hour to test the blood (they will tell you that they will call
    you if the tests are POSITIVE). They can be vaccinated as soon as
    the test results are in.  I had RumTum tested when he was just a
    kitten and to my absolute horror, the vet called and said the test
    was positive. The only thing I could think of was "how much longer
    does he have to live".... I put it out of my mind and spent much
    time loving him and spending lots of time with him.  Well, 9 months
    later I had him tested again and guess what, it was Negative!  I
    waited in the vets office while they tested the blood and immediately
    upon hearing that it was negative, had them give him the first of
    three shots (there are 3 - the first; then 3 weeks later the 2nd
    shot and then 3 months later the last and then one shot yearly).
    
    I encourage you to get them all tested and for all of them to have
    the shots. 
    
    I hope all is well for the other kitties.  Good luck.

    we are also so sorry to hear yuor news.. hugs, kisses  to you and
    your babies...
    regards  
    kate
    

    My sympathies Denise.  I remember well when we thought
    Kiwi might have FeLV.  He had been sick for a few days
    and they couldn't find what was wrong with him.  The
    final test was for FeLV and we didn't know what we would
    do if it came back positive.  Fortunately it did not.
    
    I got a Tufts Veterinary World newsletter several months
    ago and there was an article that was talking about some
    things the school was doing/thinking of doing.  One of those
    was establishing some kind of grief counseling.  I don't
    know if they ever got this going.  Perhaps I will give them
    a call and check on this.
    
    I attended the recent FELINE SYMPOSIUM at Tufts and the
    session on FeLV was by far the most complex.  There are no
    clear cut answers for a lot of things, however there are
    some misconceptions floating around FELINE that I'd like
    to clarify.
    
    re:  .5
    
    >takes a few days for the leukemia virus to die on surfaces.
    
    The FeLV virus, like the AIDS virus, is very short-lived
    outside the body.  It is killed immediately by bleach or
    or exposure to light.  
    
    The virus is not air-borne in any way.  The highest concen-
    trations are found in saliva which is why sharing food bowls
    and grooming are the most likely methods of transmission.
    
    *Exposure* to the virus (which your other cats have most
    definitely had by now) does not automatically mean you are
    likely to get it.  Most cats are able to repel the virus
    successfully.  For this reason, administration of the shots
    at this stage may be moot. The chances of your other cats
    having already acquired immunity are GOOD! 
    
    Norden laboratories, makers of the FeLV vaccine, quote about
    an 80% immunity rate.  Tufts feels that the vaccine is not as
    effective, probably around 50%.  
    
    However, if all it (the vaccine) gives you is peace of mind,
    then it may be worth it to proceed with vaccinating your other
    cats.   Do talk it over with your vet. 
    
    Hang in there!  We are here for you!
    
    Donna
    

    About "air-borne" transmission -- there is a school of thought
    that says it can be transmitted via fleas, because of the blood
    involved.
    
    

    The information that I have heard about felv is the same as what
    was reported in reply to 22 with the addition of one point.  My
    vet told me that the virus cannot live longer than a few seconds
    in a dry environment, and only a few seconds longer in a wet
    environment.
    
    I know how you are feeling right now.  I went through a similar
    situation just last October when Jesse became suddenly ill.  He
    needed surgery so we ran a felv test along with the other bloodwork
    required for surgery.  His felv test came back positive.  He was
    a very sick cat (he had an intestinal blockage) he was also very
    old, and he tested positive for felv.  I decided not to put him
    through surgery.  We gave him laxatives and eventually he was able
    to pass the blockage on his own.  He was still a positive cat tho.
    
    Since we had four or five other cats at home that had all had contact
    with him, we were also very worried.  At the advice of our vet,
    we isolated all of the other cats into seperate rooms for 3 weeks
    to see if any of them developed symptoms.  Meanwhile, Jesse was
    recuperating at the vets office.  At the end of the three weeks
    we tested all of the other cats and got all negative results.  Jesse
    couldn't come back to live with us tho because of the other cats.
    
    We kept the other cats isolated for another 3 weeks and tested them
    again, again we got negative results.  I administered the vaccines
    to all of them and found Jesse a home with my mother.  He hasn't
    been tested since last November.  As far as I know, he is still
    positive but he is completely healthy otherwise.  I just couldn't
    put him to sleep.
    
    To this day none of the other cats have had a positive test.  I
    think that you have a very good chance of having the same results
    with your cats.
    
    My thoughts are with you,
    
    Jo Ann

    
    Oh, Denise, I'm so sorry.  If you need anything (even if its just
    to talk about it) come on over.
    
    Rita
    

    For the most accurate information on FeLV, contact Tufts School
    of Vetinary Medicine in Grafton, MA.  When my sister's cat, Timmy,
    acquired Felv, her vet consulted extensively with Tufts to treat
    him.  Today, Timmy is off of the chemotherapy after being in remission
    for over a year.  My sister also spoke with the Tufts staff to become
    more educated about the disease, and they did a fantastic job of
    consoling her - spent an hour on the phone with her long distance
    (she lives in Virginia).  She speaks very highly of Tufts.
    
    During this time, she had a littermate of Timmy's, who, like Jo
    Ann, she kept isolated until the tests came back - fortunately
    negative.  Today, both Timmy and Sophie (her other kitty), live
    together in harmony.  Sophie has not contacted the virus.
    
    When I first got Nikki, he was palling around with a cat who tested
    positive for Felv.  I was petrified that Nikki had it too, but he
    was tested twice - both negative.  So - the chances of your other
    cats contacting the disease are pretty slim, in my opinion.
    
    Hope this helps to reassure you.  So sorry to hear about your kitty.
    
    /Roberta (and Chauncey and Nikki)
    

    My heart goes out to you.  I had a scare last year when I found
    out both my neighbor's cats had been tested positive and mine had
    gotten into fights with them.  I paniced.  Fortunately, my cats
    had been receiving the FeLV shots since they came out and were retested
    negative to the leukemia.  But the funny (if you can call it that)
    is that Snoopy (the neighbor's cat) shows no sign of having the
    disease.  He looks fine and healthy, eats like a horse, and when
    he is in a fight the wounds will heal nicely.  Have your other cats
    been been receiving the booster shots?  If so, then there's a good
    chance that they'll be ok.  However, if they do show up positive,
    take a lesson from Snoopy - a cat can live a fairly normal life
    even with this dreadful disease.  
    
    On burying Tabby, the vet can help you on this.  Most vets offer
    some kind of service (for a fee, of course) for pet euthanasia.
    They can send the pet to be buried in a pet cemetary, to a pet
    cremation place in which the ashes get buried in the pet cemetary
    or are returned to you, or you can take your pet and bury him in
    your own yard and bury them in their favorite place.   Regardless
    of what you do, it is still a tough decision because I'm sure you
    feel the way I do - your cats are your children and it hurts so
    much to see one pass on.              
                              
    Mary
    
    **************************
    One note on Snoopy.....I know, a cat with leukemia shouldn't be
    let outside because it can pass it along to other cats.  Unfortunately,
    there's no arguing with my neighbor.  She feels that Snoopy got
    the leukemia from another cat who was let outside with it, so why
    shouldn't she let her cat out.  I totally disagree and went through
    great pains last year.  Fortunately, the FeLV booster seems to work.  
    
    

       Well, got all the test results this weekend. I'm afraid there
    were positives - 2 out of 4. All I can do now is keep the positives
    separated from the negatives, which luckily isn't a problem, and
    pray. I go back in 3 months for retesting, and hopefully they will
    all be negative. The vet said 30% of cats who contract Felv, can
    fight it off and come out negative. I guess no one can take my hope
    away. I don't know about my Ruby sweetheart though, he's almost
    18, I hope he can fight real hard. He's a coon, and he's real tough,
    but he'll have one heck of a fight ahead of him. I will have a tough
    time losing my best friends, that's for sure.
    
                         Keep the prayers coming,
                                                   Denise 

    What did he say about vaccinations?  For the negative ones?  For
    the positive ones (would it help, harm, do nothing, results
    unknown...)? 
    
    Bigs hugs to them all.
    

    
    I just got off the phone to my Mum.  I knew a cat of hers (Micky) had 
    to be put down about six months ago but I couldn't remember why.
    
    Micky was a stray that was living in her garage for a while before
    she finally took him in.  He was a long hair (don't quite know which
    breed) and where he had been living rough for so long his fur was
    in tight knots down to his skin so they had to have all the knotted
    areas shaved.
    
    Anyway he then became very sick and after numerous visits to the
    vet he was diagnosed as having FeLV and had to be put to sleep.
    My mum buried him in the garden - that is her own pets graveyard,
    to date we have two rabbits, 3 goldfish, one budgie and two cats
    buried there.
    
    She was then faced with your problem...she had two other cats (Max
    and Monty).  She took them immediatly for tests....both positive
    the first time but the second time (a few months later) both were
    negative, thank God.
    
    What I am trying to say is that there is still hope for your two
    babies, just keep believing that.  Have you got the two not only
    separated from the other two but separated from each other incase
    one is stronger than the other???
    
    Good luck and remember we are all still praying for you.
    
    Sharon
    

    How common is Feline Leukaemia in the UK?  I have never heard of
    a cat with it, and my cats have not been tested or innoculated (their
    injections are for feline infectious enteritis, and cat flu).  Does
    anyone know?
    
    I'm so sorry about your Tabby - I hope the other two who tested
    positive come through all right.
    
    Helen.

    Just to help you keep your hopes up, when we got Portia she was
    really sick and, after numerouus trips to the vet, she was diagnosed
    as having leukemia.  She was so sick that the vet thought that she
    had no hope fo surviving.  Well, she's still around (only 6 months
    later) but she is quite healthy, and she has gotten guite chubby!
    She is in remission now.  My vet said don't bother to give her the
    FeLV shots since she is leukemia prone and the shots most likely
    won't work.  As for Oscar, our other cat, we haven't even bothered
    to test him or to innoculate him.  Our vet siad that if he hasn't
    gotten the leukemia yet, he's got to be immune to it.  He has been
    healthy since the day we got him.
    So, we have 2 cats -- one with, one without.  They both live together
    and play together without precautions and both appear happiest that
    way.  I have accepted that one day Portia may die from the leukemia,
    and that one day Oscar may become sick with the disease.  However,
    for now they are happiest being together, and I am happiest having
    them together.  
    Once again, I'm letting you know that things could work out fine
    and that all your cats could live together whether they are diseased
    or not.  But it has to be your decision as to what you think is
    best for your cats.  I'm doing things that I feel are best.
    Just as a side note, my vet recommended cooking lots of liver for
    them to help boost Portia's blood iron level.  And we also gave
    Portia a kittycat abortion/spay since we also found out that she
    hadn't been using protecton while she was sick.
    
    I'm sure everything will work out fine in the end.  I was devastated
    when I found out about Porty -- it took a couple of months for things
    to settle down, but we are finally a happy kitty house now.
    
    

    I've had that worry to and luckily Stranger was negative. The vet
    said he was just bone-lazy. A lucky result for me.
    
    I have buried 3 of my darlings, and always just in a white shroud
    in their favourite spot in the garden. The first one, WalksFar was
    buried for me and I will never forgive myself that I didn't have
    the guts to say goodbye myself. The next two, SierraLeone and MaraMist,
    I did myself. I did not grieve as long, although I'll never forget
    them, as I saw the finality for myself. This is not meant to be
    macarbe, but it made me feel more like I could let them know how
    very much I loved them.
    
    I have to go and get some tissues.
    
    I feel very deeply for you.
    
    Alison

    I'm sorry to hear about Tabby. We've lost 3 cats to FeLV since 1984,
    the last one just last April. It is horrible and heartbreaking to
    have them put down, but it's really a mitzvah (good deed) since
    they're so ill. I have cried every time I've had to do it, but I've
    had to be there for the shot. It was important to me that my kitty
    be with someone they love when they die. The shot is fast and painless.
    
    On a slightly brighter note, there's no apparent rhyme or reason
    to which cats get it and which don't. We have lost 3 out of 10 cats
    to FeLV since 1984, but the other 7 are fine, even tho they might
    be carriers. It seems that of all cats exposed to FeLV, about 20%
    will die, 30% will get sick but recover, 30% will be carriers but
    have no symptoms, and 20% will never contract it. That's what the
    vet says, anyway.
    
    I hope you feel better fast!
    
    
    KBS
    

    RE. note # .32
    
    You could not have said it better! Those are my feelings too.
    
    I have (1) cat with FeLV (tested twice - once was the test in N.J.) 
    and 4 who have tested negative and 2 who have never been tested. 
    I tried for 1-1/2 years keeping Francis separated from the others, 
    and while I was home alone it was okay. But when my daughter came home 
    from college, she would leave the door open and everyone got 
    together- continually. 
    
    Surprisingly, they never seemed happier. 
    
    As with #.32's Portia, when I found Francis he was so very sick
    with infections that the vet thought he should be put down
    immediately as he "will probably never get over his infections
    and if he does you'll still have a FeLV + cat". Well I chose to 
    work with him, and within one year he had gained 11 pounds (he
    weighs in at 18 lbs). Francis does not exhibit the signs of leukemia
    and he is the fattest of the 7 cats. The vet now wants to re-test
    him. I don't really care to re-test because I know I wouldn't do
    anything differently from what I am now doing - no matter
    what the results of the test were (should he show up as negative). 
    Francis does not take medication, and he eats 9-Lives and Meow Mix 
    like the 6 others. He jumps on window sills, begs off me when I eat 
    chicken, and tumbles and rolls in play with the others. (It took
    alot of work the first two months though to get him to his point
    physically!)
    
    I too realize Francis will probably die of FeLV - since only 20% of
    the cats throw off the virus - and maybe so will
    some of the others (altho they have had their shots - the shots
    are 70-80% effective at best) but in the meantime they are one bunch
    of happy indoor cats..
    
    As in # 32, I was frantic - only I was bordering on neurotic - about the 
    remaining cats getting the disease, but things do settle down after a 
    while.
                                               
    I have heard so many stories about (+) cats in with (-) ones, and the
    (-) ones never get the disease. In fact I know of four such multi-cat
    families including my own. If your kitty has been with other
    cats in your family, which Tabby has been, then why not let things
    continue as they were, everyone has already been exposed anyway.
    And you won't alter their lives, and yours will be closer to normal
    too.
    
    I do know that this is a decision each person makes for him/herself.
    It is very personal and people have VERY STRONG ideas on the subject-
    one way or the other.