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Conference misery::feline_v1

Title:Meower Power is Valuing Differences
Notice:FELINE_V1 is moving 1/11/94 5pm PST to MISERY
Moderator:MISERY::VANZUYLEN_RO
Created:Sun Feb 09 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 11 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:5089
Total number of notes:60366

778.0. "declawing" by CADSE::LUBY () Thu Sep 17 1987 13:50

    
    	I am thinking of getting my kitten declawed since he is
    	destroying my new furniture.  I have tried punishing him
    	whenever I catch him clawing the furniture but it doesn't
    	do any good especially when he has the run of the apartment
    	while I am asleep or at work.  So I am only around to
    	dicipline hime 2 or 3 hours a day.  And I don't always
    	catch him.
    
    	I guess that I am feeling a little guilty about getting
    	him declawed.  He will always be an indoor cat so he really
    	doesn't need those claws, does he??  
    
    	Is there any reason why I shouldn't get an indoor cat
    	declawed.  Please advise me on this and help to relieve
    	my guilt (worry?).
    
    	Thanks,
    
    	Karen
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778.1Some things to try firstVAXWRK::LEVINEThu Sep 17 1987 14:2712
Do you trim his claws regularly?  Do you have a scratching post for him?
Does he use it?  These things should all be tried before thinking about
declawing a cat.

This topic has already been discussed in notes 38, 74, and 223.

(Deb and I did some work with keywords for this conference awhile back but
have never really announced it since we don't consider it finished yet.
SHOW KEY/FULL will show what's been done so far.)

Pam
778.2No Way!25348::SCHREINERGo ahead, make me PURRR...Thu Sep 17 1987 14:2813
    I cannot recommend declawing.  I'm sorry.  Does your kitty have
    a scratching post???  
    
    If you have to make the choice of having the kitty declawed or getting
    rid of him....well, I guess I'ld opt for declawing, but only after
    you have tried EVERYTHING else possible. If you do have him declawed,
    be prepared for him to be in lots and lots of pain, it's not a pretty
    sight.  I have also seen cats go through a complete personality
    change after the operation.  Be prepared....it's not an easy thing
    to do....How would you like someone cutting your fingers off???
    
    cin...who doesn't believe in declawing!!!
    
778.3MINE ARE FINETPVAX3::ROBBINSThu Sep 17 1987 14:3424
      Well this is a really touchy subject either people are definitely
    against it or would do it.  I just had my two little ones both
    declawed and fixed at the same time.  DOUBLE GUILT!!  But....
    the way I figured it is that number 1 my cats will never ever go
    ouside and never be given away.  That's one of the resposibilities
    and promise I had to make to justify it.  Secondly the way I
    figured it is that the chances of me being able to keep them if
    they continued to do damage to the property we were renting and
    our own furniture were not too rosy.  I told myself that the pro
    point of them having a good home with lots and lots of love where
    they are pampered to death was much better then either being at
    a shelter or with someone that wouldn't give them the same kind
    of quality love we do.  So that's how I made myself feel less 
    guilty before I had it done.
    
        Now that it's done I wonder why I was so nervous about how it
    would affect them.  Sure at first they were a little sore and plus
    I did leave them at the vets for an extra night to make sure that
    they were healed pretty good.  But now you wouldn't know my kids
    have no claws.  No behavior change at all which was my biggest fear
    or even a hint of their paws still bothering them.  So I myself
    unfortunately found it to be a necessary evil that turned out just
    fine...
778.4thanks for your inputCADSE::LUBYThu Sep 17 1987 15:4948
    
    	Re : .1
    
    	Thanks for telling me about those other notes.  I read quite
    	a few of the replies from them and now I know why I feel
    	guilty.  And nothing would stop me from feeling guilty
    	if I get him declawed.
    
    	sooo............
    


    	I'm not gonna do it!!!!   
    
    	I think the note that really decide me was 223.16.  I didn't
    	realize what it meant to declaw a cat but now that I have all
    	the facts I'm not going to do it.
    
    	I don't have a scratching post.  I've never seen a cat use one
    	even if he has one.  My parents cat had a scratching post and
    	he never used it.  But I guess that I should get one.  After
    	all, he has to scratch and right now there is no where that
    	he is allowed to.  (Try telling him that).  I'll get one this
    	weekend.  
    
    	I just don't know how to stop him from scratching when I'm not
    	around most of the time.  My parents cat destroyed a leather
    	chair and a very expensive oriental rug with his claws.  And
    	he will scratch right in front of us and then if you say no,
    	he cowers and if you head towards him, just runs.
    
    	T.K. is a very naughty kitten.  I've tried to teach him that
        the dining room table is off limits.  He knows what no means
    	and when he prepares to leap onto the table when I'm eating,
    	I say no and he behaves.  But he still is on the table when
    	I'm not looking.  And he just found out how to get onto the
    	counter so I'm going to have to teach him that that is off
    	limits too.  I feel that all I ever say to him is "NO".  I'm
    	afraid that he is going to get a complex if he thinks that 
    	everything he does is bad.  That is why I considered getting
    	him declawed.  Then I would have one less thing to punish him
    	about.  
    
    	Well, I will try all the options listed in other notes on how
    	to train a kitten.  I just hope they work.
    
    	Karen
    	
778.5try this...PARITY::TILLSONIf it don't tilt, fergit it!Thu Sep 17 1987 16:077
    
    We convinced our ktties to use the scratching post instead of the
    furniture by spraying the post with the catnip spray that comes
    in aerosol cans.  Made the post smell *much* better than the sofa!!
    
    Rita
    
778.6"I'm glad I didn't declaw Argus" - a true storyVAXWRK::SKALTSISDebThu Sep 17 1987 16:3718
    I guess I'm fortunate, four of mine use the scratching posts and
    cat trees. Alex can't; she was declawed when I found her as a starving
    stray outside PK2. Her being declawed has caused a lot of adjustment
    problems at home. She felt when another cat came in the room, she
    had to growl and hiss and try to scare them off before they even
    looked at her.
    
    As for the feeling that a lot of people have about "well, I'll never
    let the cat out", well, you'd be surprized at how they might get
    out, no matter how carefull you are. My house was recently broken into
    and the little b*******s left a window open. Everyone except Pip
    escaped. I got Alex and the twins back that night, but Argus was
    gone for 4 days and came back very badly beaten up (multiple cut
    and bite wounds and a hole .5 inches deep in his belly). I'm convinced
    that if he didn't have claws he wouldn't have survived those fights
    with racoons and other cats.
    
    Deb
778.7FELIX Katnip Tree Scratching PostHPSVAX::DERUSSOThu Sep 17 1987 17:4065
    
    
    Hello,
    
    I am a strict proponent of never having a cat declawed, and I was
    happy to read that you have decided the same.  Declawing can be
    likened to pulling out your fingernails one by one.
    
    I have a strong suggestion for you.  Don't buy just "any" scratching
    post -- in other words, those useless posts covered with carpeting.
    They are just that --  UTTERLY, TOTALLY, USELESS --  There is a
    cat company in Seattle Washington, (further information later) which
    produces the BEST scratching post made.  They've made a scratching
    post which mimics the trees you would find in nature, with regard
    to texture.  The post is manufactured of sisal, the post itself
    is made of solid cedar and they implant ALL NATURAL catnip right
    into the post.  I can just about guarantee that your cat will love
    it the minute you introduce him/her to it.  
    
    Call the company and order the #14 Large Katnip Tree (it is priced
    around $20).  Don't order anything but the large as you want the
    kitten who will soon grow into a cat to have adequate scratching
    room by allowing his body to totally stretch out on the post.
    
    The Felix Company is one of the finest suppliers of all natural
    cat toys and their patented Katnip Tree scratching post.  I have
    recommended this tree to five people, four of which could not get
    their cats to use ANY scratching post before this one!!!
    
    When the post and base arrives you will need someone to help you
    put it together.  Whatever you do, don't throw away the small metal
    bar that comes packaged with the post.  This helps stabilize the
    post to the base.  Many people throw this piece away for one reason
    or another.
    
    After the post is assembled, bring your baby over to it, take his
    little paw in your hand and show him how to scratch and also it's
    helpful if you scratch on the post with the cat and when he catches
    on, praise him and tell him what a good baby he is.  My Abyssinians
    show how happy they are to see me when I come home by scratching
    on their Felix post.  THEY LOVE THEIRS!!!!  They have NEVER touched
    my furniture nor my oriental rugs.  Of course, little nails on little
    paws should be trimmed every two week, at least.  It's highly
    uncomfortable to cats when they're nails get too long.  Some cats
    even chew their nails. This is not good.  Keep those nails trimmed;
    if you're not sure how to do it, have your veterinarian show you.
    It's quite easy.
    
    Here's the address:
                            The FELIX Company
                            3623 Fremont Avenue North
                            Seattle, Washington  98103
    
    
    I'd love to hear from you and how your cat has adapted to it.
    
    
    Diane
    297-5472
    
    "TE KEE" Ruddy Abyssinians
     (continuing the tradition)
    
    
    
778.8Kitty GymSQM::MURPHYIs it Friday yet?Thu Sep 17 1987 18:273
    You might try Feline note #452 for a scatching post.  I (and my
    cats) are very happy with the one Barbara's husband built them.
    
778.9another scratching postGEMVAX::GRANTThu Sep 17 1987 18:5315
    My kitties (all five of them!) love their scratching post. Instead
    of carpeting, it is covered with something called sissal (sp?) rope.
    It looks just like rope, wound around an upright post. It is gloriously
    rough and stiff and scratchy. I bought it at my local pet store.
    
    The two older cats had been scratching the couch before I bought
    this scratching post. Once I introduced them to the sissal rope,
    they never went back to scratching the couch again.
    
    The three kittens were born after I got the scratching post, and
    have never even bothered the couch. They, too, prefer the sissal
    rope over anything else in the house!
    
    Marleen
                                                   
778.10info and request for infoCIRCUS::KOLLINGThu Sep 17 1987 19:0329
    All three pusses I've had use scratching posts.  Very occasionally
    a puss might use the carpet a bit, but that's strictly down in the
    noise.  Here are the things that seem to be important to them about
    the posts:  it must be very stable -- it it rocks and the cat thinks
    it will fall over on him, he'll be gone like a shot and not go near
    it again.  it must be quite tall, so the cat can stretch out full
    length if it wants to.  When I've introduced each cat to the idea
    of using a scratching post, I've rubbed catnip on the top of the
    post (so that  when they stretch up to smell it, they naturally
    put their paws on the post), and I've scratched the post myself
    to give them the idea.
    
    Now, the nice old retired gentleman who used to make these posts
    and other cat platform type things has stopped doing it, and the
    local pet store only carries cat platforms with white tops (Sweetie
    and Holly are grey-black tabbies, so you can imagine what the white
    jobs look like in about 5 minutes.)  So I'm in the market for stuff
    by mail order (I live in Calif.).  Does the scratching post in note
    .7 that's made of cedar also smell like cedar (which alas gives
    me headaches)?  Or, better yet, can someone tell me how to recover
    the posts I have?  They're currently covered with carpet, and I
    have access to carpet remnents, but I'm afraid if I just nail the
    nw carpet on, the cats will hurt their paw pads on it.  Thanks.
    
    Oh, I forgot to say that my cats don't like the scratching posts
    with cat seats on top of them.  They'll sit on these, but the posts
    that get used for scratching are always the ones with nothing extra
    on top.
    
778.11CIRCUS::KOLLINGThu Sep 17 1987 19:078
    By the way, my brother had his cat declawed (over my dead body),
    and the cat died about two days later.  He lives on the east coast,
    so I'm fuzzy about the details of what happened.  Apparently the
    cat got into some sort of difficulty as a reaction to the operation,
    my brother called the vet, the vet said "Not to worry", and the
    next day the cat was dead.  Could happen with any operation, I suppose,
    but.....
    
778.12CIRCUS::KOLLINGThu Sep 17 1987 19:106
    Three replies to the same note, this must be a record for
    disorganization.....  I forgot to say that I had to put several
    scratching posts around the house, not just one.  Sweetie and Holly
    use just one particular one, but Pussycat would go for the furniture
    unless there was a scratching post in the same room.
    
778.13poor babyMASTER::EPETERSONThu Sep 17 1987 22:048
    My sister had one of her cats declawed and the poor thing sustained
    nerve damage in one of her paws.  She now walks only on 3 legs and
    the other one just sort of drags beside her.  Can you imagine seeing
    that poor kitty every day and knowing that she is that way because
    it was inconvenient to train them to use a post.
    
    Marion
    
778.14TPVAX3::ROBBINSFri Sep 18 1987 12:023
    .11
    
       You're right it could happen with ANY operation.......
778.15On another subject, slightly...25348::GERRYGo ahead, make me PURRR...Fri Sep 18 1987 12:248
    And as far as behavior modification, you might want to try everyones
    favorite trick....
    
    
                           The Plant Sprayer!!!
    
    cin
    
778.16MY MY MYTPVAX3::ROBBINSFri Sep 18 1987 12:2834
         Unfortunately this is turning into a conversation that is as
    worse as discussing religion or politics.  Although there are no
    other replies in here from people that have had their cats declawed
    and feel that everything is fine from reading the other notes I
    know there are plenty of them.  My hat off to the ones that have
    replied that (I'm sure are against declawing) that have given their
    advice as far as scratching posts etc.... and left out how they
    feel personally about the subject.  After all she has decided already
    not to have it done so that's a dead issue.
    
        As far as I am concerned EVERYONE that inputs to this conference
    LOVES their animal.....  Some of these comments are both insulting
    and demeaning to those who have found it necessary to declaw their
    cat.  To insinuate that we are selfish and lazy because it was too
    inconvenient to train is ludricous.  There are always exceptions
    to the rule and they seem to be the crutches that some people stand
    on as far as condemning declawing.  There are far too many cats
    that are declawed and lead a very healthy life to center on those
    that are less fortunate and show it as the way it is when it isn't.
    
       But anyway yes my nose is bent out of shape only for the fact
    that I am supposedly below these other owner's level of being a
    good parent to my kids because of what I've done.  Everyone has
    their own opinion and that can be conveyed with personal insult
    like many others have done when supporting their view.  I find
    it cruel for anyone that lets their cat out that does not live in
    a very very rural section.  Just as cruel as what has been done
    to my kids (as I'm led to believe was very wicked on my part).
    But I would never condemn anyone in this conference as I know you
    all love your pets and that's just the it is........
    
       Ah well hope everything turns out fine for you and the little
    one Karen.  With all the helpful info you have got from the majority
    you've got a very good start.....
778.17No Voluntary Surgery for me or kittyAQUA::GOLDMANMatt GoldmanFri Sep 18 1987 13:2836
RE < Note 778.16 by TPVAX3::ROBBINS >:

Well this is a controversial subject and as such emotions will be involved.  
I'm going to try to state my opinion without emotion.

Yes, I'm against declawing.  Enough said.  But then again, I'm against any type 
of "voluntary" surgery.  This goes for me (people) too and not just my cats.
Can you imagine removing a static benign mole removed or having plastic 
surgery and becoming permanently disabled from this?  It happens.  So what's my 
point?

As stated by you and others, *any* operation can lead to complications or, 
regrettably, death.  However, it is one thing to become disabled or die from an 
operation that is being performed to better your health or prevent death, and 
quite another for this to happen during an operation by choice.

My advice, for myself or my pets, is to avoid all voluntary surgery.

However, if you absolutely *must* have the operation performed, please make
sure to get all the facts.  This includes alternatives, such as learning how to 
train the pet.  If one has tried everything they were able to do and nothing 
works, and if you know the possible outcomes and can accept the worse, then
you've at least made an EDUCATED decision. 

Complications do arise after the declaw operation; several previous replies 
have given examples.  These are facts, not opinions.  Sure emotions are 
involved.  Everyone who cares to read this conference obviously cares about 
their pet(s).  I might not agree with someone's decision, but if it was made 
after getting the facts and trying suggestions for behavior modifications, then 
who am I to think "low" of that person?!

Alot of people have their cats under go surgery without ever thinking of the
results.  Do you know that there are people who get their cats de-vocalized? 
Absolutely Disgusting. 

Just my thoughts
778.18Behavior ModifierAQUA::GOLDMANMatt GoldmanFri Sep 18 1987 13:4722
On a lighter Note (sorry about the pun),

Some cats are more responsive to behavior modification than others (as with 
people).  Growing up in a cattery you meet all the extremes.

If you can afford it (big $$), the floor-to-ceiling scratching post works well.
We have a "Condo Treehouse" that we bought at Breeder's Pride (Sudbury,
Marlborough, etc. MA).  It consists of a 3' high, 1.5' diameter cylinder with
three internal shelves and entrances to each floor, internally and externally.
A two-tiered post is mounted into the top level and stretches to the ceiling.
The cats sleep and play in the "condo" or on the "tree" tiers.  

They can fully stretch on the tiers or on the outside of the cylinder which is
a key for success.  Add some catnip and encouragement and this is their home 
within your home.  To break bad habits, the water squirt gun is *extremely* 
effective.  They don't associate you directly with the water.  They only know
that they don't like it.  This way you can still approach the pets.

We had a bad problem with Addison (and the damage has been done).  Since we 
bought a "long distance" water gun, he's been pretty much cured.

Oh yea, one more thing.  Claws must be clipped on a regular basis.
778.19clipping claws not the solution right nowCADSE::LUBYFri Sep 18 1987 13:5814
    
    	Well,
    
    	I tried clipping his claws but in my opinion he is doing
    	more damage with clipped claws because he is still small.
    	When he tries to jump up on the arm of the couch or over the
    	back of the couch he uses his claws to pull him up since he
    	can't quite make it.  When I clipped his claws he ended up
    	sliding back down the couch raking his claws all the way.
    	But when he gets bigger and can make the jump without the use
    	of his claws then I will start clipping them again
    
    
    	Karen
778.2038283::TAUBENFELDAlmighty SETFri Sep 18 1987 14:1520
    My mother's cat, Mouse, is declawed.  Since we got him used, the
    operation had been done 2 years previous.  We have owned many cats,
    but this one was the first one that was declawed and my mother
    has sworn that she will declaw all future cats.  He is also an outdoor
    cat and is always getting in fights with the cats next door even
    though he is neutered.  So far he seems to be unharmed from the
    fights.  Notice that this statement applies only to Mouse and in
    no way generalizes the situation of declawed cats.
    
    I have 2 cats that are NOT declawed.  Yes, my furniture is in shreds,
    yes, my satan sheets have lots of pulls in them, yes, sometimes
    I get annoyed.  But the lump in my throat that forms when I think
    of yanking their nails out beats all of that hands down.  My emotions
    say no, but I can certainly understand why some people would want
    to have it done and I don't condem them for it.  I would suggest
    trying the other alternatives first though, and I think you've already
    made that decision.
        

    
778.21You Can't Wait That LongTOXMAN::MECLERFRANKFri Sep 18 1987 15:1827
    Re.: .19
    
    Karen:
    
    You can't wait until the kitten is grown to start clipping nails
    for two reasons - your health and the kitten's health.  First the
    kitten, his claws will continue to grow and theyhave a tendency
    to curl, particularly the dew claw - the one on the front paws higher
    than the four on the paw pads.  If these curl they can, at times,
    grow in.  They also become very difficult to clip because it is
    almost impossible to get the clipper in and not hit the blood vessel
    when the claw curls.  Also long curving claws are more likely to
    imbed in a surface and be difficulty to remove.  If you want to
    see real damage to cat and furniture watch a "stuck" cat panic and
    try to tear itself free.
    
    Second, you.  If you do not clip claws regularly on a kitten it
    will not become accustom to the clipping.  When you do try to clip
    claws after a long time, you will encounter thick tough claws which
    will flash as they remove precious skin and muscle from your bones.
    
    I try to clip my squirmy babies at least every 10 days from about
    4 weeks of age.  One of our queens, Wicked Witch (she earned her
    name, but she loves me) was treated that way.  Her claws need weekly
    trimming which is accomplished accompanied by quiet purring.
    
    Frank 
778.22Did it; WON'T do it againGLINKA::GREENEFri Sep 18 1987 15:2629
    Okay folks, let's not make like the cat's have their claws
    removed while they are awake and able to feel it!
    
    I had Cosette and Fantine declawed when they were young, and it
    just never occurred to me how complicated the surgery was -- I
    guess in my ignorance, I equated it with having them spayed.
    I was absolutelyn horrified when I picked them up and realized
    what a long recovery it was.  Fortunately, there were no complications
    whatsoever.
    
    So, naively having had them declawed, it *has* been nice.  They
    are indoor cats, and *I* don't get scratched and my couches don't
    get shredded.  However, C and F still manage to leave scratches
    on table tops from "pushing off" with their hind legs (usually,
    only front claws are removed, as they are the ones that cause the
    most damage, and the cat can still scratch itself with the hind
    claws).
    
    BUT I WOULD NEVER AGAIN DECLAW A CAT.  With all the other cats,
    I trim claws, use the water sprayer/mister, and don't have as
    much success as I would like :-(   But that's part of owning a
    cat.  Children come with similar tendencies:  the major
    destructions can/should be eliminated, but there are always
    little problems.  Hey, maybe I should start spraying my adult
    friends when they track in mud!?! ;-)
    
    As with any surgery, for humans or felines, choose the doctor
    carefully:  make sure it is someone who has had a lot of
    experience, and get some good references.  IF you decide to do it.
778.23CADSE::LUBYFri Sep 18 1987 15:588
    
    	RE : .21
    
    	Well, maybe I will just trim his claws so that that don't get
    	too long but I will still leave enough so that he can get up
    	on the couch without losing his grip.
    
    	Karen
778.24Outside without claws?SQM::MURPHYIs it Friday yet?Fri Sep 18 1987 17:394
    .20  Since your mother's cat is declawed and still let outside,
         I wonder what happens when he can't climb a tree to get away
    	 from a dog or whatever might chase him?
    
778.25other ideas...EXODUS::ALLENFri Sep 18 1987 18:1450
    
    Boy oh boy, I leave for two days to take a class, and look what
    happens!  The excitement always hits when I'm not around...
    
    I guess this is a controversial subject, yes?
    
    Well, I have had brand new furniture attacked, too.  Maddening it
    is, but I think you can modify a cat's behavior by giving them
    something more interesting to do if they are doing something you
    don't want them to.  This sometimes takes a LOT of creativity and
    patience but I have had success.  It's kind of like having children,
    I suppose, like someone else said.
    
    I think the info. about FELIX is great info, and I intend to try
    it.  I can't remember who entered it now, but thanks, I'll let you
    know how it works.
    
    We have a home made scratching post which has two sides carpet-side out,
    one side carpet-backing out, and one side plain wood.  We figured we'd
    give them a choice.  The carpet is virtually untouched, the carpet-back
    is shredded and the wood has a few claw marks in it. I also have
    several carpet remnants that are folded in half (plush side in) that
    they love to sit on (since they are lying on the floor) and scratch.
    That is the most attractive to them.  The only problem is when guests
    come over, I don't like having them in the middle of the room so if I
    move them out of the way and forget to replace them, they go back to
    the furniture.  I did see Sebastion, however, walk past the chair they
    have attacked to the carpet remnant behind it once to scratch, but
    maybe that was because I was right there watching. ("See, it's not
    me, it's Claude!") 
    
    What definitely helps to make SURE they don't touch the furniture while
    we're away is putting towels or knitted afgans over the arms of the
    chairs or couch. It has stopped the damage completely because then they
    really do prefer the alternatives I give them.  To keep the room from
    looking too strange by having things draped on the furniture I have
    used good towels that fit in with the colors of the furniture so they
    don't look terrible when guests "drop in" unexpectedly, and I can just
    remove them quickly, and as I said, I also have used good looking
    afgans (which I remove when expecting company and they really don't
    look bad anyway since they're both white).  It seems strange to pay for
    good furniture just to cover it, but it's better than paying for it,
    then having it ruined. If you're clever it looks okay.  Not like you're
    painting the room.
    
    But... I will try the new scratching post, when it comes, and let
    you know if it is successful!
    
    Amy.                                   
        
778.26CIRCUS::KOLLINGFri Sep 18 1987 18:524
    One of the nicest things about pussycats' having claws is when they
    touch you with their claws retracted, so you know they're being
    careful not to hurt you.
    
778.27Sisal?EMIRFI::KEENERFri Sep 18 1987 20:2715
    I never have to trim one of my cat's claws, the other two do not
    have them clipped - they allow a nail file to take the sharp tip
    off and I've never seen the claws curl.
    
    What I am concerned about is the sisal.  That stuff can destroy
    human hands - it is really rough and fibers become loose and can
    imbed in skin (kitty pads?)  Our homemade *LARGE* kitty condo has
    tall places were they can really stretch, they can climb or go inside
    and they have carpet, wood and hemp surfaces (wrapped around a 4
    x 4 piece of wood that was covered with glue.  We recover the carpet
    part regularly by removing the shreds and using a staple gun with
    a lot of pressure that makes sure the staple is imbedded into the
    wood part and no claws can get caught.  They are tough to remove
    when recovering but they are worth it.
    
778.28Another solution.LABC::ALLENEquestrian LadySat Sep 19 1987 04:5514
    When Sy was a baby I started training him to leave the furniture
    alone and use the scratching post by picking him up and sort of
    hanging him on the scratching post.  So every time he was caught
    using the couch or chair he got hung on his post.  When I finally
    bought a new couch I did cover it with a blanket when I left the
    house.  I only did this for about 2 months.  So far Sy only uses
    his post.  I would never have him declawed, even though he is an
    indoor cat.  How can he defend himself if he ever got outside by
    accident?  
    
    I'm glad you have made the choice to not have the kitty declawed.
    
    Linda
    
778.29RHODES::WARDIs there intelligent life down here?Mon Sep 21 1987 03:1321
    When I finally talked my landlord into allowing me to have a cat,
    one of his stipulations was that it be declawed.  Finding Trouble
    (she did not earn her name, Frank :-) ) has been the best thing
    that has happened to me in a long time.  She is declawed on all
    four paws (and I would still like to find that vet and give him
    a piece of my mind), but does not go outside.  As a matter of fact
    if she is near the door looking out and someone walks toward the
    door she runs away.  I must say that while I'm glad I didn't make
    the decision, I'm glad she is declawed.  
    
    Even though Trouble is declawed, I am thinking of getting a scratching
    post because I have noticed (and heard before) that she still tries
    to scratch the couch.  This can be just as damaging as with claws
    because she goes to one on the corners of the couch where there
    is a seam and scratches.  Also on our dining room chairs which have
    the vinyl type seats she tries to scratch.  
    
    Oh the joys of owning (excuse me, being owned by) a cat.  It's 
    wonderful!!!!!!  
    
    Bernice
778.30Our DecisionWFOPSA::GONCALVESMon Sep 21 1987 17:1229
    Here I go on my reasoning behind having my Selina declawed.
    All my life I have grown up with cats.  However, these cats were
    always declawed.  I never knew what it was like to have a "non-
    declawed" cat.  My parents had made the decision.  It seems that
    they had first found a cat that was declawed and ever since, kept
    their following cats the same way.
    
    Now when Selina was given to me about a year ago, I struggled against
    this same issue.  I tried for 1 whole year to clip her nails and
    the whole works.  I worked on her. Somehow, I never got through
    to her.  Ultimately, we had her declawed, and not just 2 paws, but
    all four. 
    
    The surgery was done in March and she recovered beautifully. I realize
    that a lot of you out there don't agree with what we have done,
    however, it was the best decision.  It was either have her declawed
    and keep her or get rid of her altogether.  
    
    Selina has adjusted well.  She has even gone into a "second kittyhood"
    if you want to call it that.  We had a wonderful vet who took the
    time to explain in detail what the operation entailed.
    
    So although we go against the norm, we are glad the decision was
    made.  
                                             
    Oh yes, Selina absolutely HATES the outdoors! She runs and hides
    whenever the door is opened. So we don't have to worry about her
    escaping.
    
778.3116835::MCALLISTERIt's okay to say the U___ word!Mon Sep 21 1987 18:197
    My personal rule of thumb...
    
    If it's between have a declawed cat or no cat at all
    	Go with the cat!
    
    Dave (who clips 144 claws every month)
    
778.32Patience helps...CROW::TAMIRMon Sep 21 1987 19:4017
    Some words of encouragement....
    
    When Honey was a kitten, he drove me NUTS with clawing everything
    in site.  I swore I would declaw him myself.  My vet, however, told
    me that he would do the operation only as an absolute last resort,
    and only at the same time as having him neutered.  In the meantime,
    I was to put scratching posts all over the house so they would be
    convenient for my monster to use, and encourage him to use them.
    By the time he was 8 months old, the random scratching had stopped
    and he confined all of his scratching to his several posts.  And
    he does so with vengence.  He sits at the base, pins his ears back
    and claws like crazy.  Sometimes, he used growl at the same time!
    So, my friend, be patient!  He'll outgrow alot of the random
    scratching, especially if you can re-direct it to the post(s).
    
    Good luck!
    Mary
778.34one more scratching suggestionTHE780::WILDEDIGITAL: Day care for the wierdMon Dec 14 1987 18:578
As Hannah has been going for one (and only one) piece of furniture in
the house, I simple covered the one corner she has been using with
a rough textured, padded, fabric and let her go to town.  Once she
got used to the feel of the fabric, I moved it to the base of the
kitty tree and she has followed....no more working over the love seat!

Much easier than the "cat discipline tool" (water pistol with long
range) and doesn't get the furniture wet either.