Conference misery::feline_v1

    Bryan,
    
    What kind of cat club were you thinking about?  I mean, what kind
    of activities would there be?  I'm definitely interested in 
    investigating further!
    
    Carole

    I'm interested too--and I already have a specific issue to work
    on.  Thanks to our friend and fellow cat-lover, Mary Tamir, I have
    learned that cats are not considered "animals" as in animal-control
    officer-type-animal.  You may or may not be aware, but a few of
    us in FELINES are trying to get together and work out how to clean
    up the stray and sick cats that have been abandoned at a Shirley
    trailor park.  From what we have heard, this has long been a problem.
    Evidently the owners don't care, the police won't get involved,
    and the animal control officer in that area doesn't recognize cats
    as a problem.  (I've heard that their standard answer is "Are you
    kidding?  We have enough problems with DOGS!")  
    
    I don't know if this means we all go to bat for "kitty legislature"
    or just try to do what humane societies and animal shelters have
    been trying to do for years--make pet owners conscious of their
    responsibilities to their animals--neuter them, keep them safe,
    and keep them healthy.
    
    Yes, I'd love to see a "cat club" started, and I'd be proud to be
    a part of it.  How can we get it going??
    
    Good idea!
    
    Jane
    

    I'ld be interested too.  I used to belong to several cat clubs but
    found that I didn't have time for the meetings or the politics!!
    
    
    cin
    

    Hi, thats an interesting thought. i just got thru chatting with
    Jane.. about the "issue in ayer".. those poor babies..!! I'd be
    interested.. .. keep me posted.. 
    regards
    kate.. pookies mom

    Sounds like an interesting idea - keep your thoughts flowing!
    
    E.T.

    It's funny that you should put this note in 'cuz I was
    thinking of the same thing this week.  I think they did
    something similar in the CANINE file, at least for the
    dog owners in the MASS/NH area.  I believe their intent
    was to present themselves to businesses as an official club,
    with x numbers of people, and try and get discounts on
    various things like food, etc.
    
    The organizer was Stu Farnham, you might want to contact
    him to see what they did and how they did it.  Perhaps
    I'm wrong and they didn't really establish a club.
    
    One of the ideas I have is perhaps establishing ourselves
    as a club for, at a minimum, the intent of donating to
    a Humane society.  You know, we could have a treasurer
    and anybody interested can mail donations to the treasurer
    who would in turn make a donation in the name of the
    Digital Cat Club (or whatever we call ourselves).
    
    There's probably lots of things we could do as a club
    despite the fact that we're geographically too far apart
    to meet.  We could be like DECUS and have 'regional'
    groups that could meet once in a while if people were
    interested?
    
    I like the idea, no matter what, so count me in.
    
    Donna 

    What brought this on was a notice in the CFF Newsletter for an "All
    Points Cat Club" which is for those who are too geographically spread
    out to join another cat club. What I was thinking of was a cat club
    that did most/all of the things that other cat clubs did: meetings
    (NOTES), fundraising (as mentioned earlier - don't forget Digital
    Matching Gifts!), and someday maybe a Digital club sponsored cat show.
    Such details as which association to affiliate with are out of my
    league. The idea of presenting ourselves for discounts is a goods
    one, and we can extend that to not just club members but to all
    DEC employees.
    
    That was the idea. Any more comments?
    
    Bryan

    Re .7:
    
    The idea's not bad, but if the club members are _that_ geographically
    spread, how do you propose to hold a show?
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Sounds like a good idea to me....the Digicats....
    
    Re .8:
    
    I guess we pick a place that the majority agree to and hold a show
    there.  I hear the Maynard Elks Club is nice  ;^)!!
    
    M.
    

    Most of us are centered around the New England area, and the others
    are in Ca, Co, Ga,etc. I dunno. Any suggestions? I think the idea
    of running it like DECUS is a good one.
    
    Bryan

    I also nominate bryan as chairperson..I think the decus format is
    a good idea..
    keep me posted..
    regards
    kate.. pookies mom

    Go for it...
    
    I have a feeling that many of us have been involved with clubs of
    one sort or another.  I'll volunteer whatever help I can (of course
    that is from Houston)
    
    Dave

    I am a day late in reading this note - I think it's a GREAT idea!!
    Keep us posted!
    
    anna
    

    Here's the scoop on CFA:
    
    Need 10 members
    $50 Application fee
    $60 1st years dues
    
    They look for cross members from other cat clubs, i.e. they don't
    want to de-populate one club to form another. I don't think it matters
    in our case. I explained the situation to him and his comment was,
    "Wow, that's unique. Which company is this, DEC?" Apparently the
    Points system they run is a DECtalk.
    
    We need to apply 90 days before the meeting to be "considered".
    The next meeting is 10/10/87, so the application would need to be
    back to them by Monday. No hopes there. The next meeting is 2/13/88.
    If we organized to affiliate then, we wouldn't get a chance to vote
    for regional reps at the spring meeting.
    
    Comments, please. CFF and TICA next. Are there any others we should
    look into? Does anyone have any preference about which club to
    affiliate with? Am I jumping too far ahead? I'll be in Mexico next
    week, so I'll probably be out of touch.
    
    Bryan
                                           

    Thanks, Bryan, for the suggestion and all the legwork.
    
    This sounds neat!
    
    Given that most or many of us are in the NE area, I suppose that
    there are more CFF than CFA shows around...so if we want to make
    "use" of showing in our OWN show, that might make sense.
    
    Personally, most Russian Blues are shown in the few CFA shows around,
    but there are some in CFF.  I like the "blind" judging strategy
    in TICA, but I *strongly* prefer CFA or CFF.
    
    10 members won't be a problem, it appears.  But how do we raise
    the first $110+?  Can we sell cat-shaped chocolates to other DECcies
    or something? ;-)  [Oh dear, if it is *good* chocolate, it'll never
    get past my taste buds!]
    
    Might we really qualify for price cuts on supplies?  Especially
    cat food?  Lots of places that give discounts don't discount
    food.  Could we buy prescription diets like c/d or p/d?
    
    As for "cross members" defecting from other clubs, I don't know
    how many of us are even members of any club.  I'm not.  But I
    certainly would join this.
    
    --> Do we have to worry about Official DECdom in terms of using
    a name like "Digital Cat Club" [what is an Analog Cat Club?]
    
    HAVE FUN IN MEXICO!  Where in Mexico?
    
    	P

    Hi there.
    
    I vote for CFA (having had a massive horror story with a TICA cat
    club and several TICA judges).
    
    On the $110, I'll offer to donate the $50.00 fee (it's writeable
    under my cattery business)
    
    Dave

    I might sound stupid (?) but I think I spoke too soon.  Just what
    is a cat club?  I mean, what benefit does it offer a cat owner?
    Is it for just people who own cattery's or show cats?  
    
    anna
    

    I'd like to join too.  My vote is also for CFA.
    So far as coming up with the fee.  If you have
    enough members $5 or $10 apiece would be easy
    to come up with.  I'm not currently a member of
    any cat club (too political out my way) so this
    would be great!  Be glad to help any way I could.
    
    				Debbie
    
    
    			

    CFF or CFA would be fine.  I agree with Dave, definitely not TICA.
    I think a $10 - $15 membership fee per person/family would generate
    enough cash!
    
    cin...new node, same person!
    

    I like the idea of a Digital Cat Cat club, but would getting afiliated
    with one of the assoiciation really be necessary? I'm not real crazy
    about the idea of being affiliated with an association (especially
    after all of the horror stories I've heard about the politics).
    Also, I wonder if Digital would allow a "company sponsoered employee
    activity" to belong to an association.
                                        
    While I go to some shows, I'm not interested in showing my cats, and
    the impression that I get is the point of joining an association
    is so that your club can sponser a show. I guess that my idea of
    a club that would interest me would be something to benifit all
    cats, something that would take up various causes and issues:
    
    	1. helping the homeless, strays, low cost spay clinics and shelters
    	2. raising money for research (FUS, FELV, etc)
    	3. volume discounts (food, toys, shots, T-shirts)
    	4. letter writing lobby for pet laws, safer cat furniture/toys
    	5. a newsletter
    
    And then of course, ocasionally haveing barbeques or parties
    for club members clustered in an area (to show off their cat pictures).  

    Anyone else feel this way (or feel that I am all wet)?
    Deb    

    re: .20 
    
    Deb,
    
    Parties sound like a great idea!  But the "guests of honor" would
    be left behind.  Just imagine if we all brought our cats:
    	say, 23 humans  and
    	    117 cats!
    
    THAT would make the newspapers!
    
    [just kitting, of course ;-)]
    
    	Penelope

    I agree with Deb, I would like to be a part of a club that helped
    out humane societies and clinics and strays.  Not to mention a "Cat
    Party" where we can brag about our babies.
    
    anna
    

  I think my interests are more in line with the previous two 
    noters.

Bryan - I do think we are getting ahead of ourselves here.  Let's
step back and consider/answer the following:

1. Are we forming a club?
2. Why, what for?  What is the intent and purpose of forming a club?
3. What will be the goals of the club and how do we plan to achieve
   these goals.
4. What are the general interests of *all* members of the club, not
   just a select few.
5. What is the reason for affiliating with an association?  Is this
   specifically related to your interest in a cat show?

I'd like to see the club be of interest to as wide a variety of cat
owners as possible, not just breeders or those that show cats, and 
perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but it seems to be going in that direction.  
I'm disappointed in this.

It appears that some people have already decided what the club's membership
dues are going to be applied to (affilication).  I'll be honest.  I am
truly offended by this.

I'd like for there to be more discussion surrounding the formation of
the club and what it intends to do.  Anyone else?

Donna 

    
    
    My interests are also leaning more toward what the last few
    repliers have stated.  I don't know much about the organizations
    mentioned, and am not really interested in showing any of my
    cats (though Pistachio is a beauty :-)).  I think it would be
    fun, though to go to cat shows - especially if other "club"
    members were showing any of their kitties!  Another activity we
    could consider is our own "kitty picture" contest.  Wouldn't
    that be fun?
    
    Carole
    

    The reason for a Cat Club sponsoring a show is that by having a
    show you can make money.....I don't really know many ways of generating
    cash out of a cat club with the exception of holding a show.  If
    you hold a show, you have to have an affiliation with an association.
    
    I have belonged to many clubs affiliated with CFF, CFA, and TICA.
    Many of them have tried other means of raising cash, such as bake
    sales, flea markets, raffles , seminars,  etc, and none of them worked very
    well for generating cash.  
    
    If we can't generate cash, we won't be able to make financial
    contributions.  
    
    

    Hi, i agree with the consensus here,, i really feel we should be
    doing something like the like the two previous noters... affliations
    are nice, but what are thr tradeoffs here..??.. we really should
    outline our goals.. etc.. my pookie was a show cat.. and she has
    retired.... gracefully of course... i cant imagine her being in
    that environment again..(this is  my mummy mindset, speaking)..
    she enjoys haveing her picture taken, so i have many pookie pictures..
    (also my mummy mindset speaking....) so please cast my ballot with
    th 2prevoius noters..
    regards
    kate.. pookies mom

    Maybe I'm naive...buy why couldn't we have a cat club that serves
    both purposes. Does becoming affiliated with an association preclude
    humane society activities, parties, etc.?
       
    Does being affiliated with an association provide any other benefits
    besides the ability to sponser a show? Would we have a better shot
    at discounts, etc.?
    
    Whichever way the majority goes...I'm certainly interested.
    
    -nn
    

    One way of making a financial contribution is to take
    membership dues and make a contribution.  That is, if
    we decide that there will be dues at all.
    
    Another way is to have something like a semi-annual
    solicitation of sorts from members.  Anyone who wishes
    can make a contribution of any amount.  The club would
    decide which organization(s) it wants to support in
    this way. Again, this is contingent upon club members
    deciding that this is something we want to do.
    
    There are probably lots of things besides making and
    donating $ that people might be interested in doing.
    For instance, this is something I'm interested in doing --
    I'd like to somehow, don't know how, be involved in
    a feline education workshop for elementary school kids.
    I'd like to work on something like this with a few other
    cat lovers in the club and brainstorm around this idea.
    
    My previous reply didn't mean to imply that breeders or
    cat showers have no place in the club.  Rather, what I was
    trying to say was that the club should be a place for
    everyone and that as many interests as possible should be
    served.
    
    Though not personally interested, I see nothing wrong with the idea
    of a cat show.  But if the club's money is to be put towards this,
    I'd like to see more 'feasibility' type information.  What kinds
    of profit might we be looking at in order to cover the costs of
    the affiliation and costs of running the show?  Could we lose money?
    
    The bottom line is, who and how are we going to decide what we should
    or shouldn't do; what we can and can't do?
    
    More ideas please.
    
    Donna
    

    I tend to agree with what everyone has said so far. Sounds wishy
    washy, no?
    
    Anyway, there is more to a "club" than just sponsering a show. My
    thinking was along this line: 1) If we did sponser a show, WE get
    to pick the judges. We can eliminate some of those judges that we
    know are more into themselves and their friends than into the fancy.
    (of course, we'll be eliminating over half, in my opinion..); 2)
    We have a voice with Community Relations (the people with the money
    and equipment to give to "worthy" causes) to get the cat clubs,
    researchers, universities, Vets, humane societies, etc. the equipment
    or money that they can use to benefit everyone, not just us; 3)
    Some of the clubs now almost give Household Pets a second-class
    status. While there may not be as much investment in HHP's by their
    owners as there are in a purebred, they are probably loved more
    and cared-for more than some purebreds. This doesn't need to be a "show"
    club as some are, and it doesn't need to be a HHP club. We all have
    an interest in this, and we can make it what we want. We also have
    the DEC Matching Gifts program, which if we all were interested
    in, say, FELV research, we could donate quite a chunk of cash with
    the matching. Can any other Cat Club do this? What about
    "On-My-Own-Time?" (I can see it now: "This is what I do in my spare
    time" and a cage with maybe 20 cats in it..) 
    
    We have an excellent mix of cat people here in this conference.
    We have experianced breeders and showers, we have long-time cat
    owners, and we have novices (like me)and first-timers. Very condusive for
    a club. Is there any reason for doing the things such as those
    mentioned earlier? Parties? humane society assistance? Why not?
    Do "normal" clubs do these things? 
    
    As for affiliation, I think it's a good idea, but I would listen
    very carefully to those with club experiance. The talk I've heard
    leads me to believe it has it's good points, and some bad points.
    Already I've seen two say "no" to TICA. We would need to approach
    Community Relations/Employee Activities to get permission to make
    it official. I don't see any problem with that, it would just have
    to be well thought out. I've dealt with those people before, and
    they are very helpful. 
    
    We don't NEED to do any of this. I was just wondering what others
    felt about it. If we want to do this, I say "Go for it". If we don't,
    that's ok too.
    
    ranting and raving, as usual,
    
    Bryan
    
    P.S. Penelope, I'm going to Juarez, across the border from El Paso. 
    There is a network there that crashs a VMS system whenever they
    transfer data from one system to another, and I was drafted to try 
    to fix it. Lucky me.
                        

    We could also bring in a local researcher to talk to us on what's
    happening at his institution. I wonder if they'd allow us to use DVN, 
    and invite our local Vets to see it? Now that would help the
    community. I don't think we could ask DEC to provide those facilities 
    unles we could show a definate interest on the part of the employees..
    
    just an idea,
    Bryan

RE: .25 
>If we can't generate cash, we won't be able to make financial
>contributions.  
    
Cat shows may be a good way to generate money, but there are other ways to earn
it; selling T-shirts, hats, cat toys or a raffle. I bet we could make a bundle
selling cat-stuff if we had a booth at the DEC Flea Market (no bad puns please).

Also, *CONTRIBUTIONS DON'T HAVE TO BE FINANCIAL*; they can service orientated.
Back home (lovely Dover, N.H.) it is not uncommon for an organization to
place barrels in a supermarket for people to donate goods; usually they
will say "In addition to food,litter and toys, the shelter could use 2 gallons
of bleach, some dish soap and some blankets." A lot of people will purchase
an extra can of food and drop it off.

Another service type thing we could do is to educate people about pet ownership
(maybe we could do it in conjunction with the DEC Canine club). My personal
opinion is that people need to be educated (starting in grade school) about
pet ownership and responsibility; how when you get a pet, you are responsible
for it's life, and that animals are not inanimate objects that you can just
dump when they become inconvenient. And while we are at it, we can talk about
neutering pets, keeping them up to date on their shots and very sternly telling
them that torturing small animals is disgusting and that there is nothing
funny about dead cat jokes. A club member could go to a school and talk to the
kids about this and I think that we would contribute a lot to society if we
can educate our young to this way of thinking.

Or how about an Elderly assistance program; this could be something like
you help out by changing litter, bring kitty to the vet, pet sit (in the event
that the elderly person is in the hospital), or even offer to feed the cat
(couldn't cost more than a couple of dollars a week out of a person's pocket,
and if the cat club "bought the food", DEC might match the contribution).

I'm not saying that we have to do these these things, I'm just trying to
point out that contributions don't necessarily have to be financial.

Note 652.27 
>    Maybe I'm naive...buy why couldn't we have a cat club that serves
>    both purposes. 

I'm sure we could, but I think that it needs to be run like DECUS with special
interest groups (SIGs). 

I think that Donna (whom I haven't spoken to in about a week because she is
never in her office) is right; we *need* to step back and decide what will be
our purpose. Heck, we don't even have a name or a charter and already people
are talking about collecting dues in anticipation of joining an association
(and it sounds like some people are against joining an association; I can see
both sides). I feel we need a committee to gather information to decide what
we want to do (and the priority of doing it), and how we plan to go about it.
A membership list needs to be compiled. The information that is collected
should be presented to all those on the membership list, and then voted upon
by the members. (I'm a big fan of democracy because it was invented by my
ancestors :-) ).

Yasou,
Deb 

I think having a DEC cat club is an excellent idea.  I think the charitable/
educational suggestions people are making are really exciting.  I personally
have no interest in showing cats (although I do like to look at them).

What I think we need to do is to have a meeting so we can all sit down and
discuss the various options.  I'll even volunteer my house for it (I live
in Waltham, Mass).  I think the meeting should be in a few weeks so that
people can follow up some of the various suggestions (such as checking out
affiliations and the like).  And I think we should continue brainstorming
here in the notes file so we can hear from people who may not be able to
attend the meeting.  Also, I think an important issue to be discussing
here is the geographical diversity represented and how we can best handle
that.

Pam

    (it's murder having a slow link...)
    
    Having been a member of a few clubs, managed 2 shows and worked
    countless others, let me say a few things:
    
    1. We never had an unprofitable show.  In fact, the vast majority
    of the shows cleared expenses from the gate (except, of course the
    Houston Charity Cat show, which gate was only $30000.00, (it was
    real bad weather, see)).  Every cat show we put on gave the majority
    of the profits to a charity, the ASPCA, or a research group for
    example.
    
    But all of these owned the cages, and various other stuff like judging
    tables, etc.  And with us spread out so far, a show would be hard
    to coordinate.
    
    Being a member of an association does not mean giving up anything
    you want to do, but it does give you a distinct voice into the larger
    society of animal rights.  CFA, for example, spends more on medical
    research for cats than do most major veterinary colleges (Cornell
    being the only example I can think of).  Likewise, CFA has the prestige
    and capability to help eduicate the public, something I would like
    to be a part of.
    
    As an exhibitor, I want affiliation.  It's good for my image, I'll
    admit.  I won't quit my local clubs, cause they are the ones that
    will continue to put on shows locally.  I like the concept of a
    Digital cat club, because Digital is a distinct part of my life
    (and I like the name "Digikitties" as recommended earlier).  But
    I'll continue to support it either way, I would really like the
    affiliation and subsequent recognition nationally.
    
    By the way, if we doe have a meeting, could it be around 8/3-8?
    I have to be in Nashua then, so could possibily even attend (probably
    armed to the teeth with cat pictures).
    
    Dave
    

    I'd be interested in most of the variations suggested.  They all
    serve different interests/purposes.
    
    However, I would NOT be interested in a club whose sole activity
    is to collect money (set-rate dues or optional contributions) to
    donate to research, animal rescue, etc.  We ALL already have the
    option to have DEC match our contributions, and we can choose just
    which organization should be the recipient.  If we can somehow
    generate ADDITIONAL funds for worthy causes, then that's GREAT!
                
    By the way, I like the idea of helping the elderly with their pets.
    A lot of research has shown that they benefit greatly from having
    pets, and it is now illegal to NOT allow them to have pets in any
    housing with Federal subsidies (or something close to that).  We
    could help with matching pets needing humans and humans needing
    pets, assisting with their care or financing as mentioned previously
    (probably matching funds wouldn't work for this -- too bad!).
    
                                           
    ...eager to hear about other suggestions and combinations,
    
    	Penelope

    So far I like these ideas that noters have come up with:
    
    *Education to pet-and-would-be-pet-owners
    *Help for the elderly as far as pet care
    *Help in lobbying for animal rights
    *A way to get support in rounding up strays
    *Supporting "no kill" shelters
    *In general, raising the consciousness of people to the plight of
    unwanted, hurt, and sick animals (oh, no--I knew my 60's mentality
    was emerging!! ;-) )
    
    In trying to coordinate a group to clean up a trailor park that
    has become a "dump-off" for unwanted cats, I'm running into state
    and local authorities maintaining that there is "no problem";  hence,
    nothing gets done, and there are still homeless cats there.  We
    need some serious MUSCLE!!
    
    I think a cat club would help--even government can't ignore large
    groups of people--not when they are ALL meowing!!
    
    Let's do it,
    
    Jane
    

    Another county hear from:  My vote is YES for affiliation with an
    association - I would ONLY consider  CFF -  CFA does NOTHING for
    household pets.  I have had a nasty experience with TICA also.
    
    E.T.

    my major reason for suggesting CFA is that CFA definitely covers
    the country, whereas I have not seen a CFF show down here in years
    (probably are a few, but I just never heard of them).  With a widely
    scattered membership(?) CFA would fit best, in my opinion.
    
    Dave

    Dave, where is down here?

    Houston, Tx.  (except these days I'm never here) (Denver today,
    philadelphia tomorrow, uns so weiter)
    
    Dave

    OHHHHHHH!  I didn't realize that folks in Feline were as spread
    out as there are.  Do they call you the suitcase-man??
    
    E.T.

                      <What happened??>
    
    What the story on the cat club.Is there another note with this info.
    in it?
    
    
    
    EV.

    I'm not really sure 'what happened'.  After we held our
    meeting, someone in the group was going to comprise a
    mailing list from entries in this conference and then
    send a 'mailing' to everyone to explain the goals, intent,
    etc. of the club and to gauge interest.  I know the
    mailing list was developed, but that's the last we heard
    from him, and none of us followed up on it.  I was a little
    disappointed myself that a greater number of people did not
    express any interest, though.  There seemed to be about
    10 people or so who were very interested, but I think we
    would need more than this to make a successful club.
    Perhaps we should revive the effort?
    
    Donna
    

    And I thought my job was the mailing list and the original letter
    (sent).  I got back three tenative responses, then had to get back
    to the work world.
    
    As I am in the middle of a move, it's kind of hard to keep up. I
    have a mailing list, but it's not quite up-to-date.
    
    Dave

    soulds great, i'm interested.  please keep me informed.
    
    gloria