Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hi there,
    We were just talking about this in the previous note.  The problem
    that you are refering to is called FUS (Feline Urlogical Syndrome)
    and it hits primaril male cats due tothe fact that their urethra
    is very narrow.  The substance in cat food that leads to blockage
    of the urethra is the magnesium content of the food.  Magnesium
    is found in virtually all cat foods, it is the amount of magnesium
    that makes the difference.  Most cat foods will list the amount
    of magnesium or ash on the label.
    
    I will now try to explain what happens when a cat consumes too much
    magnesium.  The magnesium creates a high alkaline level in the urine
    which could then form alkaline crystals.  Are you with me?  The
    crystals can block the urethra so that the cat cannot expel urine
    from it's bladder.  This failure to expel the urine can cause the
    bladder to burst resulting in the death of the cat.
    
    Before you start to panic, consider a few more things.  Not all
    FUS cats suffer from blockage of the urethra.  A whole host of other
    bladder problems fall under the FUS heading inluding bladder
    infections, cystitis and other urinary tract problems.  Some cats
    are more prone to FUS than others.
    
    If your cat is not having a problem and has beeneating commercial
    cat food all his life, I would not worry too much about it.  On
    the other hand, if you wish to try to limit the amounts of magnesium
    that he consumes, you can switch to either Science Diet, Iams, Tami
    Ami or any of the other "low ash" foods.  Or, look for cat food
    at the grocery store that has the lowest magnesium or ash level.
    Every now and then I supplement my cats low ash food (science diet
    c/d) with a treat of canned food from the grocery store.  I have
    found some of the Nine lives canned foods to have less than 2% ash.
    Same applies to Friskies Buffet eef and liver canned food. 
    
    The special diet that my cats are on for FUS is less than 2%.  But
    I like to give them a treat every now and then.  Most canned cat
    foods have a 3% ash level.  I am not familiar with the levels in
    dry foods.  Check the labels for us next time you go to the store.
    The Science diet c/d that I feed my cats comes in dry or canned.
    
    FUS can affect any cat, but it is more common in males.  I hope
    I have given you the information you need.  As a footnote,  I have
    three male cats, all neutered.  Two of them have FUS and the other
    one doesn't.  The one that doesn't have it is 14 years old (in June)
    and the two that do have it are 5.5 and 2.5.  Who knows?
    
    Jo Ann

    Actually, the commecial moist food has a real magnesium ash content
    that is higher than what is stated on the can. To get this true
    ammount, you have to get rid of the moisture factor that  usually
    around 75%. So if 3%  or 3 out of 100 parts of the moist food is mag
    ash, if ou remove the 75 parts of water, you come out with 3 out
    of 25 parts mag ash, or about 12% ash. It is this figure that you
    must use when you compare moist with dry for ash content. Note that
    most commercial dry food is around 10% or more. The "low ash" commercial
    dry foods have about 5.5%  magnesium ash (Hill's dry C/D has 5%).
    My Argus is on dry C/D and moist S/D (stone diet) and if I remember
    correctly, it is 72% moisture, 2% ash, so after removing the moisture
    content, it is effectivly 7% ash.
    
    Deb
    

    Jo Ann and Deb, thanks so much for your replies.  You made it perfectly
    clear to me about the ash content in cat foods, I knew I had heard
    something to that effect, but just couldn't remember what it was.
    
    I will certainly compare labels next time I am buying cat food,
    and I will consider Science Diet or the other brands mentioned if
    indeed that is necessary.  But as you said, Jo Ann, Tibbs has been
    on dry food (and some canned) for almost 9 years and he seems healthy
    and fit.  But at least I am prepared for the future.  This spring
    I am planning on some more cats.  They are a necessity in my barn
    which is fast becoming infested with mice!!
    
    Thanks again for your comments.
    
    Jenny

    This may sound stupid, but I certainly wouldn't eat ASH. Why is
    it in Cat food at all? Is it necessary to their nutrition? Also,
    what do they mean by ash?
    
    Thanks,
    Bryan

    Bryan,
    see note #178 for more on ash and what it is.
    Jo Ann

    All I had to do was look. Thanks for the pointer, Jo Ann.
    
    Bryan
    

    It's nice to know which cat foods don't contain much 
    ash, but how do you impress your cats with this information?
    Mine are finicky as the devil, and they hate most of the
    "low ash" foods. One of them has the FUS problem occasionally
    too.  I've been adding plenty of water to their food, but any
    ideas about how to get them to eat the healthy food?
    

    The surest way to get them to eat "health food" is not to give them
    anything else!!!  It may take them a few days to eat, but their
    not going to starve themselves.  If you feed a dry "health food"
    you might mix it with water and a little canned "junk food" to get
    them interested, and then slowly remove the "junk food".
    
    You gotta be strong!!!
    
    purrs
    cin
    

    
     This is one of only 2 specific notes on dry food so I thought I would
    reply here vs starting a new topic. There was an article for Nutro's
    Max Cat brand food in the Feb issue of cats. After reading the small
    write up I thought I'd like to get some. So I called the 800 number to
    find a local retailer. I found one in Worcester, Ma. and asked my wife
    to pick up a bag.
    
     She brought home a 6 lb. bag that cost about $9.50 !!! OUCH !!!!! I
    thought this to be rather expensive but since it was just one bag I
    shrugged it off. Now for the test.... Would Bijou & Bogey enjoy the
    touted chicken,veal,rice,etc flavor ???? Would they ?????
    
    
     They did alright !!!! Bijou acted as if this stuff was treats like
    Pounce or something. He even got so far as to dive in the bag and come
    out with a mouthful. I've read the nutritional info on the bag and
    although I can't post it here from memory, it is low in ash (for dry),
    log in mag., and produces a low ph urine. 
    
     It seems Max Cat has different types for kittens, adult, and lo-cal
    diets. I spoke for a couple minutes with the distributor and he stated
    the Nutro's Max Cat was just getting introduced into the New England
    area and there aren't many retailers that carry it. From the initial
    reaction of my two little ones it appears to be a hit with the taste
    buds... Does anyone out there have any experience with Max Cat ?? If
    not, I'll post it's vitals here next week to get some comments from
    the experts ....
    
    George 

     My picky kittens refuse to eat Wysong Nurture unless they're
starving, but love Max Kitten.  If you think its expensive, the pet store 
next to Lehcmere in Cambridge chagres $15 for the 6# bag!!

    George,
    
    Max Cat is a hit at our house too!  The cats love it.  Even picky T.K.,
    who is an Iams fan, eats it.  It went over big when introduced.
    
    I picked up some samples of a new food called Nutro-Mix at the show in
    North Haven last weekend.  Another big hit with the cats.  Murdock
    acted as if he was eating his last meal!
    
    --Roberta
    

    Hmmm, I think that is actually spelled Nutramix, or something like
    that.  Anyway, it's in a black and pink striped bag.
    

    I have seen it in every specialty pet store I have
    been to lately, so I don't think it's that
    rare ......P&P Petfoods, National Discount chains,and the
    one that just opened up across from Dec Boston,
    Skiptons.  They had free sample bags, so I took
    some to try it out. they liked it very much...
    I don't remember pricing, I'll have to look next
    week to see if it compares to your $$$.          
    And I thought Iams & Science D were expensive......
    
    Lynne 

    Re .14 - Actually, I think it's "Nutra-Max". 
    
    But the bag coloring is, er, different......
    
    L-

    I have been feedng all the cats in my cattery (except those that must
    be on c/d) Max Cat and Max Kitten for about the last year and a half. I
    have been very pleased with the results.  It has kept weight on the
    girls, and they all have nice coats.
    
    Also, a good friend is Sales Manager for a new company called Nutrix.
    He has given us some samples and the cats really go for the food.  They
    liked the taste before, but the mix has been changed to make it even
    more palatable.  The ingredient list is very similar to Max Cat.  The
    Nutrix food comes in a black bag with gold and white writing, and a cat
    head silouhette (sp).  The food looks a lot like the shape of Science
    Diet foods, but the pellets are much smaller.  I told my friend that my
    cats think that the pellets are too small, and he tells me that Nutrix
    is working on that.  The shape will be changed shortly.
    
    I would recommend either Max Cat or Nutrix to my kitten buyers, in
    addition to Iams or Science Diet.  I have had good results with all of
    them.
    
    Jo

    
    Re: last few
    
      Hmmmm... the name might be Nutra and not Nutro.. Of the few places
     around the Leominster/Fitchburg area, nobody has it. I did call P & P
     Pets (I think who you mentioned Lynne) and the closest place to me I
     thought they would distribute to was Worcester. 
    
      As far as price goes, maybe $9.00 for a 6lb bag is reasonable. The
     next time I'm in BOO I'll have to check out the place with the free
     samples next to the plant. I know one thing for certain. Bijou won't
     let me get 2 feet out the door for Bristol unless he has his Max Cat
     at his side.
    
    George

    Nippa decided she would eat the max cat -lite....and she was an Iams
    only kitty for the longest time! (Roberta - TK and nippa have a lot 
    in common!)
    
    I can't really tell if she is losing weight, but she seems more
    active lately.....and she's actually shown an interest in her bunny
    again.
    
    Her coat is not as silky as it used to be when she was eating Iams, but
    I am attributing it to the reduced fat content (2% instead of 6%...or
    along those lines).
    
    
               

    Re .18 - "Nutra-Max" is the actual name, I think.  If anybody
    is having a hard time finding it, it is available across
    the street from here (Dec/BOO-Boston).  Worst case, I
    could pick some up for someone and get it to the Marlboro
    area via "contacts" ?????  The National Discount Pet stores
    have it also.  In my area that's Brockton, MA and Raynham, MA.
    
    My cats also had difficulty eating the Science Diet....too small.
    They like the Iams and the Max.....It has put such a lovely shine
    to their fur!
    
    Lynne

    Re : Lynne
    
      It seems like we're talking about two different dry foods. Yours
     being "Nutra Max" and mine being Nutro's Max-Cat (Bengal tiger stripes
     on the bag). Can someone confirm if this is the same company or food
     ??
    
    George

    Nutro is the manufacturer of Nutra Max dog foods and Max Cat cat
    foods.  Max cat does come in orange bags with tiger stripes on them.
    
    Jo

    Does Max Cat make a growth or kitten formula???
    
    cin
    

    Re .21 & all - Many apologies....I went to the pet store at lunch
    just to see what it was I *actually* got the free samples of....
    
    "NUTRO MAX CAT" for adults - Orange/black tiger striped bag.
           3 lbs -$5.18, 6 lbs-$9.39, 20 lbs - $24.70     
     
    (Nutra Max is the Dogfood....)       
    
    Chicken & Lamb meal, ground rice are the main ingredients....
    Mine loved it, so when the current bag runs out, its Max Cat
    as the new quality brand.
    
    Lynne

    Re .23 - Saw your note after I finished .24...
    
    Yes, it comes in a tiger striped bag, (not sure of color,
    tan/black striped, I think) see note .24 for $$$ estimate.
    They also have a "LITE" formula, too. (Purple/black striped, I thk)
                              
    I tried some samples of them all, they ate them all! :-) :-)
                              
    If anyone wants specific info on Nutro Max cat, I have a flyer
    here at my desk.  Call or E-mail (Dtn 281-5770, @BOO, BOOVX2::MANDILE)
    
    Lynne

    Cin,
    
    Max Cat does make a kitten food.  It is (from memory) 34% protein,
    20% fat, 7% ash, 10% moisture, and 6% fiber.  (don't quote me on this
    unless it turns out I am right!!)
    
    I like the Nutrix too, but don't use their kitten food anymore cause it
    is a lot lower in protein and fat and higher in fiber.  My kittens
    weren't maintaining their weight as well on it.  The Nutrix is great
    for my adults though.
    
    The Lite formula Max Cat comes in an off white-ish bag with black
    stripes.  The Max Cat is in a dark orange bag with black stipes and the
    Max Kitten is in a lighter orange bag with black stripes.  I do
    remember that the amount of Ash in the adult formula (Max Cat) was 6.5%
    which is good, and that the magnesium level is also listed on the
    label.  Can't remember the magnesium level off hand. The Max products
    also list that their poultry fat is preserved with ethoxyquin.
    
    The Nutrix doesn't list that their food contains ethoxyquin, but my
    friend tells me that it doesn't.  I have asked him to prove it to me.
    :^)  They also use poutry fat as the fat source in their food.  But,
    instead of wheat meal, they use rice in their food.  Just things that I
    remember from when I was comparing labels.  :^)
    
    Jo

    Max Cat Analysis:
    
    Crude protein: 32%, Crude fat: 18%, crude fiber: 2%, moisture: 10%,
    Ash: 6.5%, Magnesium: 0.10%
         
    Max Kitten Analysis:
    
    CP: 34%, CF: 20%, CFiber: 3%, Moisture: 10%, Ash: 7%
    
    Lynne

    Thanks Lynne,
    
    I didn't think my memory was good enough to remember all of that stuff. 
    Especially since it has been months since I did the comparison.
    
    Jo

re:  poultry fat not containing ethox..mumble...however you spell it.

In my vet's office, I picked up an article that talked about how dog and
cat food was made, and the requirements for labeling.  In this article,
it was stated that virtually all poultry/meat/lamb/whatever fat used in
making pet food was preserved with the stuff I cannot spell...added by the
producers of the meat and fat...AND, further, it stated that pet food
does not have to carry the preservative on the label's list of ingredients
as long as the pet food manufacturer does not add additional preservative
to the finished product....from this article, I extrapolate that we are
going to get SOME of the stuff no matter what we do - however, by avoiding
the food to which additional preservative is added, we may be able to
minimize any risk to our animals' health.

No, in answer to the next question, I don't remember what publication I was
reading at the time....the downside for someone like me who is always reading
something is that we often don't know what the name of the book/mag/newletter
is.

    There is a Boston Pet in Waltham which is only a short detour for
    me on my trip home.  If you can't find a cat food you want, call them
    and if they carry it I'll pick it up for you and you'll just have
    to get to MRO - or to a mutually convenient catshow.
      Nancy DC
    
    p.s. Anyone know anything about ProPlan??  I have used it for the
    kittens - was interested in opinions.

    Nancy,
    
    My seven tried Pro Plan....and the funny part is the little ones
    under one year old loved it and couldn't get enough of it...but
    my bigger ones turned their nose up.   So now we have Pro Plan
    and Hill Science Diet in the house.   Everyone loves the SD.
    
    I just started using a premium dry food...so I haven't seen any
    difference in their coat yet.   But boy...I have to be a bit
    more strict about not free feeding them...my Tamba and Barkley 
    are starting to bulge in the middle.  Does the LITE really work???
    
    Sandy

    Nancy,
    
    I didn't like the ProPlan cuz I feed off of paper plates sometimes and
    any food that leaves colored rings on the plates has too much dye for
    my taste.  Proplan left a lot of color on the plate.
    
    Was picking up some kitten food last night and saw the new Iams canned
    food in the feed stores so I brought home four cans, two of each flavor. 
    The cost was .69 for a 6 ounce can.  Well, it was a big hit!  I fed the
    ocean fish flavor last night (ash 1.9%, magnesium .025%) and everyone
    ate like pigs.  Joui's three week old kittens found the aroma tempting
    enough to attempt to learn to eat.  With a little help from me they
    were gumming on it in no time.
    
    It is lower in protein and fat than the Feline Growth canned that I use
    for my kittens, but that is probably because this is an adult
    formulation.  Don't know if they plan to come out with an Iams Kitten
    in cans too.
    
    Jo

    Nancy-
    
    Nippa preferred Cat Max lite over the pro plan (which she preferred
    	over SD-lite and Iams lite).
    
    
    Sandy-
    
    Nippa was pudgy and is eating a restricted diet (<2/3 C) day.  It's
    only been a month or so, but I think she is losing some weight.  She
    definatly feels better.....I didn't realize how active she could be.
    
    Michele

    Never realized it before but doesn't _Max_ Cat _Lite_ seem like a
    contradictory premise?? :^)  -.1 made me see it that way. :^)
    
    Jo

    RE: .34
    
    urr....Jo......I don't get it.....

    Re .34 - kind of like "Jumbo Shrimp?"  :-) :-)
                                                
    The Nutro Max Cat dry is winning hands down at my house....
    Iams & SH are out, Nutro Max Cat in.......
       
    Lynne
    

    err...now I get it!
    
    

    
    TO ERR IS HUMAN
    
    TO PURR IS FELINE

    .37
    
    In your other reply you had called it Cat Max Lite and that is what set
    me to thinking about it. :^)
    
    Jo

    yes, I did......I needed a good chuckle for the day.
    
    

add my group of 5 to the MAX cat club...I purchased a 6 lb. bag (bright orange
and black tiger stripes) and mixed it with the IAMS - that evening, I looked
in the bowl and found nothing but IAMS kibble...seems the darlings were picking
out the MAX.  Now, we are feeding strictly MAX.  Wouldn't you know it, they
like something besides IAMS finally...and it's MORE expensive than the IAMS.
I'M NOT WINNING.  8^}

    BUT don't they always like the most expensive stuff?  :-)
    
    Lynne

>>    BUT don't they always like the most expensive stuff?  :-)
    
well, at least they already have fur coats, so I don't have to worry about
that...

    I guess that I am the only one that has tried the new Iams canned
    food on my cats?  I was hoping someone else had found it in their
    stores.  
    
    Wanted to compare pricing and see how badly I was gouged by Wellpet.
    
    Jo

    I got some Iams canned food free at the North Haven and Copley show. 
    The cats loved it.  They especially liked the Ocean White Fish flavor.  
    
    I haven't yet seen it in the stores out here.  Maybe soon.
    

    I haven't seen it yet.  Not sure if I'll get around to trying it
    because Nippa can't keep *any* fish down.
    
    Does it come in any other flavors?  How much was it?
    
    M

    I got one can as a sample - (ya! Try splitting THAT between 11 cats!)
    of which Bonnie approved. However, the ash content was 3.0% which is
    a bit high.  I'm being paranoid with Bob's problems these days.
    

	I saw some food for sale at the Mall pet store, which I *think* was
	Iams, and it was selling for 69 cents a can, which I thought was a
	bit high.  It's the same size can as those that go for 3/99 in the
	supermarket, but larger than the cans of Sheba, which sell for
	about the same price.  Speaking of Sheba, does anyone else love
	their commercials? :^}

	Sandy

    I need some imput. Ming had quite extensive dental work last year
    and had to have all her mollers removed so the only teeth she has
    are the fangs (I guess this is what they are called in cats too)
    and the little teeth that are between them top and bottom and one
    tooth behind each fang top and bottom. Mr. Miyagi is facing the 
    same dental work (as soon as I get the money together. Hubby was out
    of work for 6 months and has only been back a month). My question
    is what kind of dry food can I give them?  I presently feed them
    IAMS and Ming is upchucking that about half the time and it's whole
    as she hasn't chewed it. I really don't think she can. Ming doesn't
    like canned food so eats mainly dry. Now with Mr. Miyagi being with
    out most of this teeth soon what can I feed my almost toothless cats
    for dry food?
    
    Mr. Miyagi gets ALPO canned food and Ming picks at the Sheba or
    Wiskas. We have tried her on other canned food and she only tries
    to cover it up.
    
    Is there a premium cat food that is semi soft?  Ming can't tolerate
    any canned or dry that has dye in it. 
    
    Barbara and her 3M's

    Have you thought about *wetting* the dry they like best?
    
    Lynne
    
    

    Barbara.. when Happy came to live with me, she was used to eating
    IAMS dry.Her fromer owner used to add water to it, put it
    in the microwave and warm  it for about  30 seconds. It would
    come out about the consistancy of otameal.. then she would
    let it cool off and Happy just loved it. I do not feed
    Iams. I use both C/D AND S/D both wet and dry. Happy
    still likes the S/D the way  we used to make the Iams.
    So you could try that. Of course we all know that
    Happys overall philosphy on life.. "more food, please
    I am a poor starving kitty... at 9 lbs..
    Kate, Happy( AH Yes Food...) Preschie( HEY me too..)

I concur with the idea of getting the food a little damp and then letting it
soften...HOWEVER, be careful during warm weather not to leave the food down
for more than 45 minutes - 1 hour...it can go sour very fast.

    I beleive that "proper" name for the "fangs" is "the CANINE teeth".
    (Pip didn't care for that term when the vet used it).
    
    Deb

    Re. Nancy's comment about the ash level of the Iams canned.
    
    Nancy, the ash content listed on the side of the cans of the new Iams
    canned that I picked up were 1.9% ash and 0.025% magnesium.  That was
    lower than the Science Diet Growth that I had on hand.  I didn't have
    anything else to compare it with.  So far, that is the lowest that I
    have seen in a canned food.
    
    The Iams canned comes in Chicken and Ocean Fish flavors in our area.
    It costs .69 for a 6 ounce can.  It is a premium food, so it will be
    more expensive than a 6 ounce can of grocery store brands.  Compare it
    instead to the price of Science Diet cans.  A can of Growth costs about
    $1.25 for 13 ounces out here (if you buy it in single cans and do not
    get a case discount).
    
    It is selling for .69 at Petco/Wellpet, and we have seen it for .79 at
    some other places. I am hoping that this means that my cheapo cat food
    store will have it for .59 or so. :^)  My cats love it so far and no
    one is barfing it up.
    
    Jo

    re: .54 - Thanks Jo.  I must have been remembering something else.
      N

    I bought the Iams canned ... 3 oz can for .49, 6 oz can for .69
    
    Stripees loved it the first time, and then wouldn't touch it after.
    I only bought 2 cans, and probably won't buy it again.  I don't
    feed much canned food, and for what little I do feed, Friskies or
    9-Lives at 2 13 oz cans for $1.00, that's what they'll get!
    
    cin