Conference misery::feline_v1

    Hi, cin...
    
    Didn't know you bred cats?!?
    
    I too am a breeder, Maine coons (I know Persian breeders and us
    don't get along, but I'll make and exception in your case), and
    Abyssinians.  While I can't claim anything as impressive as Great
    Balls of Fire, I think that a discussion of the Standards of Perfection
    and the various cat fancys would be of interest.  Might also be
    interesting to hear how the show circuit differs tween here (Texas)
    and there.
    
    I am currently working my way through the judging program, so I
    have the current standards available.
    
    Dave

    I've been to several cat shows (where I've spent most of my time
    looking wistfully at the Maine Coons and wishing I could afford
    one) and I must admit I'm somewhat mystified as to what the judging
    is all about. 
    
    If you could give a little tutorial on the process, I would be most
    interested...and grateful!
    
    Thanks.
    
    -nn

    I'm also interested in hearing what the shows are about.  The ones
    I've been to seemed like barely organized chaos, with cats being
    brought to various tables and looked over by judges, and seemingly
    without reason being given ribbons (all this without any comment
    to the watching crowd) and being taken back to their cages.  Hardly
    worth the entrance fee!
    
    I'd also be interested in knowing where there are shows which give
    more to the watchers.  I got the impression that the shows I was
    at, one in Manchester and one in Boston, were mainly for the folks
    showing cats who, with a few exceptions for those who looked likely
    to purchase a cat, were not very tolerant of non-showers.  I'd
    rather go to a flower show!
    
    --Louise

Well, I will attempt to unravel some of the mysteries regarding the actual 
judging at cat shows.  

The first thing to understand is that each breed of cat is being judged 
according to a written standard for the breed.  There are usually 4 to 6 
"rings" doing judging simultaneously.  Each of these "rings" is in all 
actuality a separate Cat Show.  All cats are judged in each ring, and each 
judge will award his/her Top 10 Cats in show.  

Cats are judged first by class (Novice, Champion, Grand Champion), color 
and Sex within the breed for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place ribbons.  Then all 
cats of a particular color within the breed are judged together for a Best 
or 2nd Best of Color ribbon.  Cats are judged again within the breed for 
either a divisional win or a breed win.  And then all breeds are judged 
(according to their standard) against one another.  Then you have two types 
of "rings", Allbreed and Specialty.   In a "Specialty" ring, the judge will 
be judging all longhairs together, and awarding Ribbons to the Top 
Longhairs, and then judging shorthairs together and awarding Ribbons to the 
Top Shorthairs.  In an "Allbreed" ring, awards are given to the Top 10 cats 
with longhairs and shorthairs being judged against each other.  So, a top 
10 win in an Allbreed ring is better than a top 10 win in a Specialty ring.

All very confusing.  

Unfortunately, it is very rare that there is time for explanation of the 
judging at a Cat Show.  Believe it or not, there is an awful lot put into 
getting some 200 cats to 4 different rings at different points during the 
day.  

I also understand why many people may be "turned off" by cat breeders 
because of their attitudes at the shows.  What it is sometimes hard for the 
spectator to understand is that there are some times when the breeder can 
chat, and there are other times when they MUST get their cats to the ring.  
A cat will only be called to the ring 3 times before being marked absent.  
And since many breeders are showing more than 1 cat in more than 1 class, 
that can sometimes amount to them being in 2 or more places at one time.  I 
have always tried to give as much time as possible to the spectators at the 
shows, but often I have had to say, I'm sorry, I can't talk, my cat has to 
be at such and such now....if you'ld like to come back and chat a little 
later that would be nice.  Often I have spent time chatting with spectators 
at rings while my cat is being judged.  

Cat shows at least give the spectator the ability to see the different 
breeds.  A few things you might want to keep in mind if your going to a 
show:

.  NEVER touch the cats...unless you've specifically been given permission 
by the breeder

. If you want to talk to a breeder, ask them if they have the time now, or 
if you should come back when it might be more convenient.  

. If you happen to be talking to a breeder while their cat is being judged, 
don't point out the cat or bring attention to the breeder, especially 
attention that might attract the judge.  

. NEVER tell a breeder that you have "Joe Housecat" at home, that looks 
EXACTLY like his/her cat. 



Re:  .1

Dave,  Can you add anything to this or make it clearer???  Also, can I ask 
what association you show/judge with???   

It would be interesting discussion to me to see differences between what 
happens in the south, and here in the east.  I am under the impression (it 
might be wrong) that the competition is far greater in the Northeast, at 
least where some associations are concerned.  


Purrs...
cin...aka Pussycat

    i probably get to about a dozen shows a year - i'm partial, no, make
    that obsessed! with siamese/orientals (i own 2 AOVs whose looks are
    seal pt, but whose parents are successful OSHs :-) and 2 from a
    'non-serious' breeder) - cin or dave, can you explain any differences
    between CFF and CFA?  i have impressions and preferences that may not
    be fair or well-informed ... 

    what a great topic to have started!

    karen

    RE: .3
    
    Last year I went to the Boston Feline Club's show (which is really
    big on HHPs), and three of the judges were very good about explaining
    what they were looking for while examining the cats. These judges
    then went on to explain what it was that made them decide to give
    a ribbon to a certain cat.
    
    This club is holding their annual show this weekend at the Lexington,MA
    Armory.
    
    Deb
    

    I have 2 older Russian Blues who are spayed -- I got them as very
    affectionate pets for my two daughters, and never thought seriously
    about breeding.
    
    ...until recently!  Last spring I added a little charmer, with the
    specific intention of breeding her (and with great fear that I will,
    after all, become a "cat lady" because I'll never be able to part
    with the cute little ones!).
    
    I am VERY interested in finding out more about the Lexington show
    this weekend, for starters.  And learning about breeding for the
    future.  
    
    So, Deb, could you pass along info about this weekend's show?
    
    And -- are there any others out there with households overrun with
    Russian Blues.  (I was also very interested in the earlier notes
    about English Blues, which I had never heard of before.)
    
    Ciao/meow,
    
    	Penelope

    re: .5
    
    There are many differences between CFF and CFA...also, let me mention
    that The Boston Feline Club show is a TICA show, which is yet another
    association.
    
    In all honesty, CFA usually brings out the "nicest" cats.  By nicest,
    I mean, the best representatives of the breed.  It is the largest
    and oldest association.  CFA Cat Shows also seem to have a little
    bit more "class", if you want to call it that.  CFA judges their
    cats in two Group Types based more on body style than on hair length.
    For Example, Exotic Shorthairs which are basically Shorthaired Persians
    are judged in the same Group as Persians and Himalayans and Maine
    Coons.  Where Balinese, which are basically Longhaired Siamese are
    judged in the same group with Siamese, Orientals, American Shorthairs,
    Etc.  CFA sponsors cat shows in nearly every state.  CFA does not
    score cats for "All-American Awards", which are sponsored by Cats
    Magazine.  
    
    CFF judging is based on hair length, rather than body style.  CFF
    is primarily based in Northeastern U.S., Canada and the Mid West.
    It would be very unusual to see a CFF show in the South or California,
    if not impossible.  CFF is the 2nd largest association.  Most CFF
    shows are scored "All-American" as well as for CFF awards.  
    
    TICA judging is based more on body style than hair length, also.
    TICA is a relatively new association in comparison to the others,
    and is just really starting to make it's way north.  This is the
    third year for the Boston Feline Club's show.  TICA is based more
    out of Southern U.S.  
    
    It is important to realize that each association has it's own written
    standard for the breed, allowing a certain number of points for
    each characteristic.  Some associations may put more value on head
    type, while another association may put more value on body type.
    
    
    Now, for my personal opinions....(please don't beat me up for this!!)
    My personal preference for showing is CFF, I happen to think the
    people are friendlier and the judging isn't as political as in some
    of the other associations.  Of course, having 
    
    's Best Cat could have some influence, but "Fire" also did well
    in CFA being a Grand Champion and also making some Regional Awards
    in 1 show.    
    
    I personally haven't had a good experience with TICA, they seem
    to like a less extreme persian, and I am breeding for what we call
    the "piggy" look.  Minority breeds seem to do much better in TICA
    than in other associations and since there are more Maine Coons
    and Siamese shown in TICA than most other associations, who am I
    to judge!!!  I couldn't tell a good one from a bad one in either
    case!!!   
    
    Another point I'ld like to make...exhibitors at cat shows do not
    get money for winning!!!  I have had that question posed to me many
    times.  When you win at a cat show, you get ribbons or rosettes,
    and you get points towards year-end awards.  Very few shows offer
    prize money.  In the last 3 years of showing, (and I've been showing
    longer than that!!), I've probably been to 3 shows that offered
    prize money, those were all TICA shows.  And the prize money wasn't
    substantial.  In all of those cases, it cost me more to enter the
    show, than I would have gotten returned if I had come in Best in
    Show.  So, I guess we do it because we love it, or we have a really
    great cat that we want to show off!!
    
    purrs
    cin
    

    On money.  There is a CFA show in NY (I think) that offers $100
    for best cat in  some rings and $1000. for best of show.
    
    TICA is extremely active and has more shows than all but CFA.  TICA
    (The International Cat Association) is also one of the fastest growing
    fancies.  It does have some problems.  CFA cats don't tend to do
    well in TICA shows and vicaversa.
    
    Dave

A day in the life of a cat exhibitor, THE SHOW....

(This will include some differences tween the longhair people (LH) and
the shorthair people (SH).  Please have pity on those of us who show both.)

3:30AM  Wake up to get ready for drive to local(?) show (anywhere from 10
to 350 miles). Trying to cut costs for more shows down the road.

4:00AM  Wake up again to sound of cat (LH) throwing up furball.  Realizing 
that you're late.  Leave lights off so as to not wake up cat-show-hating 
spouse/companion.  Step on furball.

4:10AM  Make it to bathroom with bundle of clothes.  Realize that you've 
forgotten some essential undergarment/overgarment (first is typical). 
Place clothes c a r e f u l l y on edge of sink while going back for 
remainder of wardrobe.

4:12AM Return to bathroom to find at least one piece of clothes has been 
dragged into toilet. (Cats, good choices are socks, blouses or shirts.) 
Say nasty things about non-present culprit.

4:30AM  Finally get dressed. (Add 15-30 minutes for women exhibitors 
(sorry, just observation - DMc). Stagger to kitchen realizing you wanted 
to be on the road by now.  Trip over at least three cats (or one cat 
three times). 

4:45AM  Feed all cats that aren't going to show.  Discover your prize 
showcat (LH) was the one that soaked your clothes in toilet.  Realize 
your prize showcat(LH) now looks like a very wet rat terrier.  Make 
mental note to carry blow dryer. (SH- find that prize showcat(SH) 
managed to open/rip dry food bag. Realize that prize showcat(SH) now 
looks like a small Goodyear blimp. Make mental note to have nervous 
breakdown right after strangling cat)

4:50AM  Clean litterboxes (definitely plural).

5:00AM Round up all cats going to show (3-6 is a good number).  Check to 
make sure you've got the correct cats (Goodyear blimp, check... drowned 
rat terrier, check ... token cat to get discounted entry prices, check).

5:10AM Get cats into car.
5:12AM Get self into car, fortified with asprin. Release cats that get 
carsick in carriers.
5:15AM Get car started, thankful you got gas last night. (So what if it 
was after midnight before you remembered it was empty three days ago).

5:30AM Get to major traffic artery.  Realize check-in is 7:30-8:30AM.  
Step on gas.

5:40AM  Explain to police officer what is going on while pushing three 
cats back into car window. (Well, it wouldn't be fair for just one to be 
out!) Watch officer try not to laugh.

5:45AM  Promise officer that you'll slow down.  Don't get ticket (Whew!)

6:00AM  Push speed back up to 70.

6:15AM  Listen to cat getting sick. (Well, at least he's (SH) not 
blimpish anymore.)

6:30AM  (Either in rain or freezing cold)  Listen to cat scratching at 
carpet behind drivers seat.  Realize you didn't set up a litterbox.

6:35AM  Roll window down safe amount to "air" out car.
Drive on, dreaming of warm beds and hot coffee/doughnuts/etc.

8:25AM  Arrive at showhall.  Rush in to check in cats.  Be imformed you 
can check in as soon as the entry clerk arrives.  Realize that LAST 
weeks show had checkin from 7:30-8:30, and THIS weeks show is from 8:30 
- 9:30.  Mentally bang head against wall.

8:30AM  Check in, after all, you're here.  Start hauling in cats and 
show stuff: curtains, grooming accessories, food, litter pans, ice chest 
(for special cat food (and people necessities, like beer/ wine/ champange )) 

8:50AM  Set up cages.  Realize you left the blow dryer at home.  Borrow 
one from friendly exhibitor (LH).  Repair damage to cat.  Finish with 
cat looking like a punk hair style.  Drink coffee and sigh deeply.

9:15AM Clean up cat(SH).  Pray that stupid cat(SH) will stop drooling 
before judging starts.  Realize you haven't got your catalog yet.  Go 
get in line for catalog.

9:35AM  Get back to cages, having stopped and talked to friends. Find 
all three cats sound asleep.  Wish you could fit into cage.  Sit down 
and start waiting.  Doze off (if you're early in schedule).  Dump coffee 
on leg ( if you're not).

10:00  Wake up to second call for cats(LH). (Cats are usually given 
three calls, then marked absent.  Judges do not like second and third 
calls.  Judges have LONG memories.)  Realize that you haven't groomed 
token cat.  Rush Prize cat to ring, mutter to clerk that other cat is 
"On it's way" and rush back. Make token pass at token cat(LH), hear 
third call, mutter choice phrase under breath, and rush cat to ring.
Find judge waiting for your cat. Apologize.  Rush back for catalog. Rush 
back to ring. Copy results from other exhibitor. Wait for judge to make 
up mind (something many exhibitors feel this judge lacks).

10:15AM Still waiting for Judge
10:20Am Still waiting for Judge.  Cat(SH) number is called in farthest 
away ring. Go put cat up.

10:22AM Hear announcement that your cats can "go down" from the ring. 
Rush over. Drag cats back to cage.  Go check cat(SH). Judge has dumped 
cat(SH).  (Dumping a cat implies that the judge didn't think highly of 
your cat.  That's okay, you now don't think highly of judge.  Dumping is 
drastically different from disqualifying, which means the judge found 
something that is considered a serious enough flaw, usually spelled out 
in the Standards of Perfection, to pull your cat from consideration for 
any award in that ring.  I'll discuss disqualification in another 
reply.)

10:30AM  Get cat(SH) back to cage.  Get results of LH ring from other 
exhibitor.  Find out that token cat(LH) came in second in ring and that 
prize cat was also dumped.  Question Judges mental abilities/morals.

10:35AM  Wait.  Read book/do needlepoint/grade papers/write 
programs/etc.  Smile at first gate. (In the general fancy, spectators 
are usually called the gate.)  Talk to a couple about your breed/cats. 
Hear at least one "I have one just like that at home.  I've always 
wondered what breed he is". Clench teeth and say nothing.

10:40AM  Figure you've got about thirty minutes before you're up again.
Talk to some people interested in your breed / in kittens / in showing 
cats / in putting the make on you (more of a problem for women 
exhibitors, of which the showhall is predominantly full of.  Down here, 
it's about a 85%-10%-5% female-male-other split.) Continue waiting.

11:00AM Continue waiting. Gates is beginning to pick up.  Wonder if it's 
too early to dip into "special" people supplies.  Envy cats sleeping.

11:20AM Continue waiting.  Wander around the showhall looking at 
cats/talking to people/checking out vendor's booths.  Talk to more gate.

11:30AM Continue waiting.  Wander over to ring you should be in next to 
see what is going on.  Find judge is busy playing with kitten class and 
is at least one hour behind rest of judges. Talk to friends/gate.

11:45AM  Talk to hot prospect for kitten sale. Have all three cats 
called at once.  Ask prospect to (come back later, accompany to ring, 
other : pick one).  Get cats up.  Try to watch two rings at once. Token 
cat(LH) wins class/breed.  Marvel at judges blindness (prize cat is So 
much better!). Cat(SH) wins class/breed.  Day has considerably picked 
up.

12:00N Prospect hasn't come back. Decide you have enough time to get 
lunch. Dash out for food.

12:20PM  Get back to find cat(SH) gone from cage. Panic.  Find that cat 
was called and friend put cat up for you.  Thank friend.  Try to restart 
heat beating.  Cat(SH) takes 2nd class/breed.

12:35PM  Go back to eat cold food. (Cold French fries are a staple of 
cat fanciers diet).  Open beer (Hey, it's afternoon isn't it).  Wait.

12:45PM Wait.

1:00PM  Cats(LH) are called. Groom/haul cats to ring. Token cat(LH) 
takes best class/breed.  Seriously consider changing opinion of token 
cat(LH). Get back to cages.

1:30PM  Wait for finals.  Stop smiling at gate. Growl at small children 
sticking fingers in cage. Wait. 

2:00PM Question your mental state on decision to show cats. Question 
physical stamina necessary to get through remainder of day. Drink beer. 
Comtemplate the meaning of life. Wait.

3:00PM  Roam around showhall. Play with cats (this is a sure crowd 
gathering trick). Roam showhall.  Visit bathroom.  Drink beer.  Discover 
tootsie roll in cat show bag. Eat. Wait. Remain bored.

4:00PM Wait. Wonder why you're waiting (Well, I might make a final and I 
can't miss that!).  Wait some more.  Decide what you want to eat. (Most 
shows have a Judges dinner on Sat night.  A portion of the exhibitors 
will go.  The rest tend to run out in small packs for their own 
entertainment.)

5:00PM Wait. (We're getting closer!) Show was to have closed by now.

5:20PM First finals announced. Cat(SH) didn't make it.

5:40PM Two finals at once.  Cat(SH) made one. Token cat(LH) made both.
run explain to clerk that cat is up in both rings.  Worry about judge 
living through finals. (By now, the cats are real tired of sleeping all 
day and are sometimes tempermental (like the owners).  Judges like to 
handle the cats they final.  Judges are occassionally ripped to shreds 
(but not often).  Judges are strange people.)  Cat(SH) received 8th, 
token cat(LH) received 2nd (Second?!? My perfect sample of catdom ONLY 
took SECOND!!!)

5:45PM Rush cat to other ring where other long suffering judge awaits. 
Token cat(LH) (gotta rename that beastie) takes second again.

6:00PM Waiting for final final. Pack up some stuff and haul to car. Most 
gate is gone (Hurray!).

6:20PM Last final.  Token cat(LH) made it again.

6:40PM Superb example of catdom (formerly token cat)(LH) takes FIRST.
Now this is a smart judge. (This is also what showing is all about).  
Forgive the entire world all transgressions.

7:00Pm Receive congradulations. Pack cats. Go to Hotel.  Feed cats.  
Take shower.  Call friends.  Go to dinner. Celebrate heavily.  Get ready 
to repeat tomorrow (except driving home late instead of to show early).


This is a quick example of a show day from exhibitors, hitting only the 
highlights.  Lots more take place.

Cin, I started the judging program in TICA, but grew disillusioned with 
the association.  Currently pursuing the CFA program (which takes seven 
years).

I think anotherr topic for differences in regions and in associations is 
called for.

Dave

Dave,
    
    I know EXACTLY what your talking about....I read your response,
    and just sat here laughing and laughing....seeing myself in these
    situations over and over again.  And anyone who doesn't believe
    that this is typical, think again....and many breeders do this week
    after week.  In the year that I "campaigned"(that's what we call
    it when were trying for a National Award) Fire, I showed at least
    42 weekends out of the year....and always at least 2 cats....
    
    Though, I'll never forget the year I showed a White Turkish Angora
    Female whole cat, A White Turkish Angora Altered Male, and a White
    Persian Male Kitten!!!   Was I insane!!!   (White cats or Black
    cats are considered the hardest to show)
    
    All in all, somehow when that last final is over, and you pack up
    the cats, having a Rosette to take home makes it all worth it!!!
    
    
    Dave, I too was disillusioned with TICA...I showed a few times in
    TICA for the All-American points, but never registered my cats in
    the association.  Unless I'm campaigning for All-American (which
    I heard rumors was being discontinued??) I will probably never show
    TICA again.  
    
    Gee, it's been a long time since I've been to a cat show......you
    make me wonder if I really miss it!!!!!   tee hee...
    
    cin
    

    RE:342.10  I totally agree.  I have just recently begun showing
    my cats out here in Colorado and my experiences were very similar.
    I show Persians in the CFA association which is the only one 
    that even has shows in Colorado or nearby areas.  After attending
    my first show and championing my first cat I'm probably hooked
    for life.  I now have a kitten that I hope to Grand and pursue
    some regional awards.
    
    I would really be interested in hearing and comparing the shows
    between the East and what we have here which is probably very
    different from the West coast as well.
    
    I also would like to know about other Dec people that are breeders
    and what breeds they have.  Would be fun!
    
    					Debbie
    					From Colorado Springs
    

       Hey, this is one of the best cat notes I've seen in a while!  Thanks
    for starting all this Cin.  Debbie, of .12 already knows that I'm
    a fellow breeder as we've been buying cats from each other for 2
    years now!  I also breed Persians - Solids, Tabbys, and Particolors.
    I show in CFA, mainly on the east coast, but with my imminent transfer
    to Costa Mesa California (still with DEC, of course...) I expect
    to be doing more west coast showing.  
      In fact, for any of you cat fanciers in the Co. Spgs. area, Debbie B. 
    and I will be bringing out our newest kittens (from my male and her
    female) at the Rocky Mountain CF show Oct. 25th, 26th in Co. Spgs.
    I'm hoping that we'll have a strong DEC contingent at that show!
    
    	Any more breeders out there?????
        
          
    	Molly

    BTW, note 37 has some discussion on cat shows (I just added some
    info. myself!). Our show season is over till next March, I miss
    it already!

    How long is the show season in NZ???   Here, the show season goes
    from May 1 - May 1...there are shows every weekend someplace in
    the U.S.
    
    cin
    

    Our show season is basically March till September, i.e. autumn and
    winter. I think the justification is probably that it's too hot
    the rest of the year - and some of the halls these shows are held
    in get really stuffy, even in winter (no air-conditioning), so it's
    a fair enough decision. Also, I believe longhairs don't look their
    best in summer.
    
    I just checked the schedule for the past season, and there were
    41 shows all over the country, of which we went to five! all local
    - our boys are NOT keen travellers.

    I have been reading this file for a few months now and just now
    came across this topic.  This was a good idea, Cin.  Dave, you had
    me in stitches with your "a day in the life of..." scenario.
    
    One of you mentioned an eminent transfer to California, well I work
    in California (live here also) at the Santa Clara facility.  I would
    love to meet you out here at a show.  I've been showing from Salinas
    to Santa Rosa and everything in between.  Except for the San Francisco
    shows, one of the SF clubs doesn't allow household pets at their
    shows.  Until recently all I had to show was household pets.
    
    I just bought by first breeder/show kitten.  She is a sealpoint
    Birman female and her first show will be December 20-21 at Golden
    Gate Park in SF.  My cattery name is MySinhs.  I'm registered in
    CFA but not TICA.  I have heard that TICA is better for the minority
    breeds like mine and from what I've seen in the show reports that
    appears to be true.
    
    I'm beginning to think I'm the only noter on the west coast.  Any
    others out there?
    
    JoAnn