Conference misery::feline_v1

Ooooh, that is a nasty problem and one that I had with my kitty not 
too long ago.  She was wetting in my bedroom in one certain spot and 
no matter what I did she did not seem to want to stop.  It really was 
quite aggravating and I was getting very short tempered with her to 
say the least.   To compound the problem my other two started to 
follow her example and I was to the point where I thought that we were 
going to have three very dead pets!!!  

Well the remedy turned out to be fairly simple... I had been using 
pine cleaners and such to clean up after her and freshen her soiled 
spots and as it turns out kitties actually like that sort of thing and 
it only serves to attract them back for another round!!  A friend of 
mine suggested that I use a very strong ammonia cleaner that left a 
pungent although just as clean a smell.  After a few times using the 
ammonia we got some positive results!  I never did figure out what 
caused the problem initially but the change in cleaner DID aid in the 
prevention of any recurrences.

Kitty has been behaving herself for sometime now and I have had very 
little problems with her since.  

BTW:  As a former upholster I can tell you that getting this completely 
out of your sofa just might prove to be quite a chore in itself...  
After scrubbing it as good as you possibly can I would suggest 
multiple application of baking soda and then vacuuming it out.  The 
stuffing that is used in most sofas is very absorbent and takes quite 
a bit of effort to clean.... Most of the time the baking soda used 
over a period of time will do the trick.

Later, gailann

Note 51 discusses litterbox problems too.

Another possibility is that it's caused by a psychological difficulties.
My fiancee's cat wets at odd places when under extreme stress (like having
prolonged visits of boisterous teenagers at her apartment); it's sometimes
also a means of calling attention to him/herself, like the child who pesters
the parents to death just so she or he will be noticed.  There are only so
many ways a cat can communicate with people, after all.

Also;  Be  V E R Y  careful what cleansers you use around cats.  Lysol,
for instance, is a slow-acting poison to them.  Check with your vet or
the MSPCA for a list of potentially deadly or harmful household substances.

Question.....

	I, too, have a cat with the above mentioned problem of wetting on the 
living room furniture, as well as certain areas of the carpet, and sometimes 
even on the bed covers.  Sometimes she has even gone in the tub, but we figured 
out what the cause of this was (dirty box).

	I understand about using the ammonia for the carpet.  However, I have
some pretty expensive furniture, and cannot (will not) use ammonia on my 
sofa/chair cushions.  The last time the cat went there, and stained them quite 
badly I might add, I took them to the dry cleaners.  A week later they were
in pieces (they are made of a weived material) and the dry cleaners were 
(reluctantly) buying me new ones.  I don't intend to go thru this again.

	I, also, am reluctant to put the cushions back out for fear that she
may do this again.  Presently, if we are out, the cushions are in.

Suggestions?

-Andy

As for usingg ammonia:  it's to neutralize the acidic content of urine.
That is, if you don't use ammonia, the acid in the urine will attack what-
ever the cat's wet upon.  A weak base solution is LESS HARMFUL to fabrics
than nothing; forget the odor problem.

One crude approach is to use a cat repellant for the furniture in
question; I don't really like that approach, but it can work.

Cats generally don't change wetting habits for no reason.  so check:
	-emotional state
	-physical health
	-environment.

Steve

Thanks for the advice.  We're going to try some new approaches and see
what happens!  I'll let you know how we make out.

    ^_^
   (>.<)
    )_(

    It's been two years since we've experienced this problem.. my stomach
    aches every time I think about it.  The old sofa we had was finally
    removed (due to wear as well as urine problems).  The new sofa that
    replaced it has been there for TWO years with no problems... until
    this week.  You can't imagine my dismay at finding that she'd wet
    on this sofa.  I can't go through this all over again.  I need help
    - what can I do.  I will try to get rid of the odor - I know that
    I can mask it well enough so that I can't smell it, but I know that
    it won't deter her.  We will try our best to keep her either outside
    or in the basement - a solution that breaks our hearts, but we've
    no choice.  WHY would she start doing this again?  She has clean
    litter and the great outdoors all to her very own?!?!?
                                          
    She's so sneaky about it - she squats on the cushions so that she
    wets between the cushions and into the frame underneath!!!  I would
    never have known that she'd wet if I hadn't seen a stain of a few
    drops on the cushion!!
                          
    I've thought about removing the cushions from the sofa (and loveseat)
    whenever we're not there, but it's a pain in the neck - and she'll
    probably just go right on the frame.  
    
    Any counseling about how I can get her to halt this awful behavior is
    appreciated.  I'm really at a loss.  I don't want to get rid of
    the cat - she's been part of the family for six years.  But I also
    can't be living in constant fear that I'm going to come home to
    find a mess - I can't afford to replace my furniture every time
    she decides to use it!             
                                       
     ^_^
    (>.<)
     ) ( Jeanne
    
    
    

    Re .7:
    Check with your vet.  Mine tells me that wetting on soft surfaces
    is often an indication of some sort of emotional distress.  If so,
    Ovaban might help.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    	RE .7
    
    	My family had that problem a few years back.  Pepper used to
    	wet the bath mats and he would do it almost every day.  
    	Finally we got to the point where we couldn't take it
    	anymore and we had him put away.  He was never a friendly
    	cat anyhow, and he was a wanderer, sometimes dissapearing
    	for weeks.  I don't mean to discourage you.  Pepper was fine
    	for about 5 years before he started doing this.  And then the
    	fun started.  I heard recently that some cats refuse to share
    	kitty litter with another cat.  When I commented that Pepper
    	and Cinamon had shared litter for 5 years with no problem, I
    	was told that a cat could just suddenly make up his mind
    	that he didn't want to share.  
    
    	Have you gotten a new kitten or cat lately, or maybe is someone
    	new living in your house??  Is there someone he could be
    	jealous of????  I don't know much about this but I know
    	what you must be going through since my family went through
    	it too.  I'm sure you will be able to break him of this habit.
    	Unfortunately, we didn't give Pepper the chance because nobody
    	in the family really liked him.  I hate to say this but if it
    	had been Cinamon with the problem, we would never have given
    	up.  And I'm sure your cat is very special and things will
    	straighten out.  
    
    	Good Luck!!
    
    	Karen
    

    Sometimes cats start wetting in appropriate places because they
    have urinary tract infections -- has the vet checked this out?
    
    Also, Holly is apparently under the impression that my corduroy
    covered beanbag chair is a litter box (the polywhatsis pellets that
    she can feel thru the fabric probably feel like litter pellets).
     What worked here (after I totally replaced the insides and washed
    the cover a million times, is leaving a couple of large floor pillows
    on top of the chair when no one is sitting in it.  It only looks
    slightly weird and it works.  Can you do something similar with
    your sofa?
    
    Agh - in the first sentence I mean to say INappropriate - where
    do I find the directions for how to use this editor so I can erase
    mistakes without erasing everything in between....
    

    Rubbing alcohol neutralizes the smell of urine, even to a pussycat's
    nose.
    

    also, white vinigar will neutralize it. And so will expensive enzymes.
    
    I also vote for the urinary problems. I know that when Argus is
    having a bout, he will follow me all over the place showing me that
    he is having a hard time, and that includes onto the furniture and
    bed.
    
    Deb

    How about carpeting? I noticed about a month ago a strong urine
    smell in the corner of our dining room, and when investigating,
    yes, it was wet and smelled of urine. I pulled up the carpet and
    verified my finding. I've been asking around re: getting the smell
    out of that corner and to keep Charlie from continually going.
    
    I was told to discard the padding (which I have) and if the floor
    underneath is cement (which it is) to bleach it - which I did and
    got rid of that odor. However..getting the smell out of the carpet
    is proving to be interesting...
    
    I bought a product called "Odor-B-Gone" which has worked on smaller
    things. I bought the bottle for carpet shampooers, and have yet
    to use it. I scrubbed last Thursday and succeeded in have my hands
    and arms smell like urine, as well as the carpet still holding the
    smell!
    
    Any suggestions before we replace the carpet???
    

    Re: 13
    
    Well, when Holly went on the bathroom carpeting, I got as much of
    the urine out of the carpet as I could by soaking it up with paper
    towels, then I washed the floor underneath, then I poured about
    an entire bottle of rubbing alcohol half on the floor (old vinyl
    tile) and the other half on the carpet, to totally saturate everything
    that had gotten "urinated".  After five or ten minutes, I soaked
    up as much as I oculd with paper towels and just let it dry.  It
    seemed to work.
    

    Well, Figaro did have a urinary tract infection which we've treated
    with antibotics.  She's also taking pills twice a day that is  to
    keep her urine from becoming acidic and causing blockage again.
    She will be on these pills indefinitely.
    
    For the sofa:  the vet sold me a bottle of Marmaduke.  I have to
    apply this to the sofa probably 5-6 times to thoroughly remove the
    urine.  This is going to take a while, especially since the problem
    in down in the frame, not in the cushion.
    
    I've also lined the entire frame of the sofa with clear heavy plastic -
    so that if she ever does wet again, we won't have to deal with the
    frame getting further damage.  The sofa is also draped in plastic when
    we aren't using it.  What a pain! 
                                     
                                
    The litterbox is being changed every time she goes in it - sometimes
    twice a day.  The vet recommended filling the bottom of the box with
    paper and then just a handful of litter - just enough so that she has
    something to scratch up. 
                   
    For the future:  We aren't letting Figaro  stay upstairs unless she's
    sitting right on our laps.  Unfortunately, even when we are home we
    can't be watching her every move.  I begin to panic if I haven't
    seen her for a while - thinking she's sneaked into the parlor or
    maybe somewhere else!  She is outside during the day (when
    the weather is good) or she's got the basement to herself.  It's
    breaking our hearts - she is a warm, affectionate kitty who loves
    attention.  But we have no choice.                      
                                                            
    The vet also suggested the following:                   
                                                            
    Position mouse-traps, unside down, underneath newspaper all over the
    sofa.  When the cat jumps onto the sofa the papers will all fly and
    she'll get scared and stay away.  I haven't tried this. I have a sofa,
    loveseat in the parlor and a 16 foot sectional in the family room - I'd
    have a small fortune invested in mousetraps. 
                                                            
      ^_^
     (>.<)
      ) (Jeannie                                                           

    Jeanne,
    
    Don't dispair. Chance are that kitty has been running a low grade
    infection for a long time. If the cat is urinating out of illness
    rather than spite (and that is what it sounds like to me) once she
    is well again you won't have to worry about not beaing able to trust
    her.

    One word of warning, however. You mention "causing blockage again".
    If the cat gets blocked again, ask the vet about surgery to widen
    the urinary track. 
        
    From one who has been thru it,
    Deb

    When Holly had her bout with FUS, she told me by using the bed (sigh).
    After she was better, she still had the habit of using the bed.
     I wound up keeping the bedroom door closed all the time, then opening
    it for awhile right after she's used her litterbox (so it was
    presumably safe for awhile), then gradually keeping it open longer.
     Now everything is fine.  She just had to get out of the habit of
    going there.  Perhaps after awhile your sofa will be safe too.
    

    I've been told (or maybe read somewhere) to use white vinegar &
    water, NOT ammonia, to clean up "accidents" -- both puppy & kitty,
    both solid & liquid.  Apparently, there is ammonia in urine, and
    adding more ammonia to the spot will only encourage the animal to
    mark that spot again.  If you catch the spot almost immediately,
    the vinegar seems to work well.  Also, you can get stuff to clean
    upholstery & carpets in many pet stores -- I've tried these, too,
    and they seem to work well.  Regular upholstery/carpet cleaners
    (like Woolite) do not work on pet stains.
    
    Good luck -- I know what it's like wondering what your "little darling"
    is up to when out of sight!
    

    I am new to the cats notes file.  I have four cats.  Two adults, Amos
    who is six years old and weighs 19lbs. an outdoor cat, Mandy who is a
    calico female and 2 1/2 years old, Taz who is a Hymilain kitten of 7
    months old, and Tashia who is Taz's sister.  I have recently been
    experiencing a wetting problem with Mandy and am beside myself.  She is
    an indoor cat and an absolute doll.  I have never had this problem
    before with her she has always been great.  She continually wets on the
    rug by my back door.  I even put a litter box right on the rug and she
    squatted and went on the rug right next to the box.  I have two boxes
    now because the vet thinks she might not want to go in the same box as
    the two indoor kittens.  This is very disturbing.  She is also on
    antibiotics because they think she could have an infection.  Hopefully
    this will work.  If not I don't know what I am going to do.  I refuse
    to close her in the cellar all day I can't do that.  I am sure you will
    be hearing more from me now that I have added this conference to my
    file.
    

    Re: Mandy
    
    If Mandy has a urinary tract infection, this is almost certainly why she
    is wetting on the rug.  However, you will also need to get the urine
    smell out of the rug, or she will be attracted by the smell and
    continue to go there.  The sooner the better, before she forms this
    as a habit.  Is it a throw rug you can put in the washing machine? If its
    wall to wall carpet, get a product specifically for neutralizing
    pet stains (like Nature's Miracle) from a pet store and use it.
    
    Please let us know how things are going with Mandy.
    

    Hi Mandy,
    
    It could be that she senses a boy (whole male) outside your house
    in the area and is marking her territory - did you say she was
    doing it by the door?  She may also be letting the younger 
    kitten know that the house is hers also.  Sort of establishing
    a pecking order!  Check outside your house and see if any cat
    has sprayed in the area.  Just a thought.
    
    E.T.

    In the meantime, you could confine her to one room in the house
    with a catbox when you aren't around to supervise her.  We've 
    had to do that with one of our cats who is having the same
    problem sans the Urinary track infection.  Sometimes the 
    confinement serves to reinforce their litterbox training. And
    definitely get something to get rid of the smell in the rug.
      Nancy DC

    Hi Sandy,
    
    You certainly came to the right place for some help!!!  -  although it
    sounds you are doing the right things - adding another litter box,
    having the vet her for infection, and now you need to get the smell out
    of the rug!
    
    Good luck with Mandy!!!
    
    See you next week,
    Judie

    Well, Mandy has finished her medication and I have not seen or smelled
    any more acidents.  I obviously am not home all day and it is very
    difficult to tell if she is going in the litter box.  I try to watch
    her like a hawk to see if she is using it again.  She somehow knows I
    am doing that and walked over to the litter box the other day and
    sniffed it and then just turned around and walked away. She knew I was
    watching her so I think she said I'll show you!!! She is so smart.  She
    seems to be hanging out in my upstairs bathroom alot so maybe she is
    peeing in the tub.  It is kind of the joke of the house, when we can't
    find her we look in the upstairs bathroom and there she is laying on
    the toilet.  My daughter says she is trying to tell us that she doesn't
    want to use the litter box anymore but instead wants to use the toilet 
    ha! ha!.  I will keep you posted.  Thanks for the help and
    encouragement.
    
    Sandy

    I'm looking for some advice I can pass on to a friend.  I have dogs, so
    I'm not much help in this instance!
    She has 6 cats, and recently had a baby.  The baby is now 6 months old.
    Recently one of her females (3 neutered males, 3 spayed females) has
    been urinating in the house, seemingly out of spite.  I say this
    because five (5) times it has been in the baby's room, most recently
    this morning on the changing table (including the little compartments
    underneath..very thorough job).  She is going to the vet today for a
    thorough physical, but I/we doubt it's medical.  She is at her wits
    end, and is considering putting the cat down if she can't manage it. It
    will break her heart, and mine for that matter, but she just can't
    manage this problem with the baby.  I offered to take the cat for a few
    days (I can't keep her permanently with two dogs and a bird!!) until
    she can find some advice on what to do.  Extra attention for the cat
    doesn't seem to work, since every chance she gets she is petting this
    creature and talking to her. All carpeting has been removed, litter box
    is kept scrupulously clean.  Is there anything that can be done for a
    cat with this kind of psychological problem???  Any behavior
    specialists for cats??? (Central Mass)
    
    Sarah
    

    Re: .25
    
    If the cat is okay physically, I think you are correct in thinking this is
    jealousy.  With 6 cats and a new baby, plus being exhausted no doubt
    from the baby, your friend must be at her wits end.  I know you said
    she was cuddling the cat a lot, but I suspect the cat still feels neglected.
    Since urinating in the wrong place is a sure way to get attention,
    perhaps your friend could try not paying anyt attention to the cat
    when this happens, but just cleaning things up while ignoring the cat.
    MAybe she could even wait a little bit to start cleaning so the
    cat doesn't think it's a sure-fire way to at least get her nearby.
    Give the cat hugs and cuddles at some other time.
    

    How many cat boxes does this friend have?  You said THE catbox is
    kept clean.  If she's only got one catbox for 6 cats then I don't
    think that's enough (unless its a swimming pool like E.T.'s).
    
    I have a pamphlet on Eliminative problems in cats.  Its got some
    pretty good advice in it.  I can't remember for sure, but I believe
    it said that cat's do not mark (which is what this cat is doing)
    out of anger or for revenge.  My guess is that the cat is feeling
    insecure with the new addition and is trying to reassure herself
    by "marking" her territory.  At 6 months old, the baby is probably
    getting around the house more than she used to.  
    
    I suggest that your friend put the problem cat in a room with its
    own catbox.  Try isolating her and re-training her.  Other options
    are to put food and/or water in the spots that the cat has been
    using. - that's if its one or two spots in particular.  And, of
    course, be sure to get rid of the smell.  This pamphlet says that
    vinegar and water works fairly well, or buy a product specially 
    developed to get rid of cat urine odors.  DO NOT USE AMMONIA since
    it smells similar to urine.
    
    Finally, I'll send you my phone number - call me at home and I'll
    go through that pamphlet with you and we'll see what other advice
    it has.  I'm going through something similar so I can sympathize.
      Nancy DC

    Nancy,
    
    Since we get so many questions about elimination problems, would it be
    possible to enter the entire contents of the pamphlet (as a new note)?
    We could then keyword it with something like elimination_elimination
    problems and perhaps point future questions there for more
    infomation.
    
    Deb

    re: .28  I brought in the pamphlet and will enter it as a new
    note as soon as I get the time.   I'll start on it today.
      Nancy DC

    I've just finished reading all of note 84 and thought it might be
    easier to ask my question here before going through all the litterbox
    related notes.
    
    I have three cats Kiwi - male, part siamese, born 4/27 first into
    our house; Eubie - male, all black, born 3/20 (approx); and Isabelle
    - female, tortiseshell, born 3/27 (approx) just spayed a few weeks
    ago.  We adopted Eubie and Isabelle from the Cascade Animal Protection
    Society at a cat show.  They were occupying the same cage and we
    couldn't leve one of them alone ;-)
    
    Anyway, all of a sudden Eubie has started to urinate in the bathrooom
    sink.  At first I attributed it to a dirty litter box.  We are now
    cleaning the box twice a day (as soon as we get up in the morning,
    and as soon as we get home from work) and he's still at it.  I am
    at my wits end.
    
    These cats are not starved for affection by any stretch of the
    imagination.  We don't have kids, so...... you get the picture!
    
    All ideas are welcomed.  I don't want to be mad at the little guy
    but he must stop this!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Cheryl

I have the same problem with Honey.  You might want to read note 3447 and its
replies.  The only advice I have is make SURE he doesn't have a bladder problem,
which means a trip to the vet.  Usually, the only time a cat 'breaks training'
is when they're trying to tell us something's wrong.  My neph-cat, Ashley,
peed on the rug beside the box a couple times to get his Mom's attention.  A
trip to the vet revealed a bladder infection.  He hasn't had any problem since.

My Honey just seems to enjoy peeing in the sink!!

Mary

your cat may also be finding it difficult to use the cat box because other
cat(s) are exercising dominance behavior....it happens even in the best of
households and even after years of getting along.  Someone gets a "feather
up his/her rear" and all the pecking order stuff has to be renegotiated.
I would also suggest to try adding another box.  Put it far from the
original box.  This may solve the problem.

I know I have to have 2 boxes because the two female furry roomates will NOT
share the same box.  It just isn't possible, you see - so I have two boxes
to clean and change...but I DON'T have pee in my waterbed, my slippers, or
in my sink (yes, Hannah's favorite protest spot, as well).

I also know someone who has to have 3 boxes for 3 cats - it depends on the
cats.

         Midnight used the bathtub a few times.  My cure - leave a couple
    of inches of water in it.  When she went in the tub to go she left
    really quickly ;-) and has never used the bathtub again!
    
    					- Andrea

    P.S.  I only had to leave the water in the tub once - she learned her
    lesson.  I can leave the bathtub dry now.

    The only time I had a cat urinate in the bathtub was when she
    was blocked!  
    
      You might consider taking him to be checked by your vet. !!!
    
    E.T.

    Hi E.T.!
    
         Midnight did that about a month ago, when she was urinating and
    defecating *everywhere* but in a box.  It wasn't until about a week ago
    when I changed the litter to a finer-grained litter (TC3 to Kleen
    Kitty) and starting changing it much more often (the big boys go in her
    box!) that she starting calming down.  She's had one accident, this
    morning, in a whole week, and I think that's because the box was "wet".
    
         She also defecated in the bathtub, but after hopping into the 
    standing water she's never done it again!
    
         She's been eliminating very well, so I know she's okay in that
    area.  
    					- Andrea

    To the vet.  Always the first thing to check out in
    this type of situation is a urinary tract infection, which
    can be quite serious if neglected.  Then, more than one
    litter box, different litter, less trafficed place for the
    box....
    

    Hi Andrea,
    
    Unreal!  It's such a hoot when they do that!!!
    
    Silvee's been very fine for a long time.  The trick was to keep
    her on tribrissan for a long time.  It worked!  Lucky it was
    only a dislike for the litter!  
    
    Good Luck!
    
    E.T.