Conference misery::feline_v1

    There can be many different reasons for cats refusing to use 
    their litter box.  Among the ones I have run across: 

         1.  Cats originally trained to paper or wire mesh. 

         2.  Box in 'bad' area for your cats. 

         3.  Illness:  kidney infection or blocked passage. 

         4.  Cats mad at you (usually a long time pet). 

         5.  Box not kept clean enough (for YOUR cats): 

             Get a huge round plastic tub.  Line with a 30-gal 
             plastic liner.  Fill with 20 to 25 pounds of Kleen 
             Kitty or other not too dusty kitty litter.  Scoop 
             out the poops twice a day.  Change litter and liner 
             once a week. 

             I keep a 15-watt bulb burning 24 hrs/day above the 
             litter box for my spooky Siamese. 

    Good Luck, Julie 

You didn't say how many or what age your cats are. If they are still
kittens, accessibility of the litter box could be a big problem; if
the lip is too high or if it's too far away from where they hang out,
that might prevent them from getting there in time. If they were
abandoned too young they might not even have learned how to use a box,
but nearly any cat will choose to use a box if it is kept clean and
made available.

If the cats are still small, try using a box with a lower edge - you
can put it inside a cut-down cardboard box to help keep the litter from
being scattered too far. Scooping out the wet sand and the "chunks"
will also help, especially if you have lots of cats using the same box;
some cats are more fussy than others. Confining the kittens in the same
room (does your basement have rooms?) might encourage proper use as well;
cats tend not to like to mess up an area that they have to sleep in.
[Other than shedding fur, of course... :-)].

For even more of a "hint" to the cats, you might carry them to the
box after they've eaten or before bedtime, but if yours are the contrary
type it might not help much.

Good luck!
-b

One more thing - if the kittens have chosen a favorite corner of the
basement to mess up, you might try putting the box there for a while.
They'll be drawn to the same place out of habit (and the smell) anyway,
so why not make use of it?

And, of course, you should try to clean up any areas that you don't want
them using. If any odor remains they will tend to use the place again.
A thorough cleaning, followed by an application of a cat-repellent (or
the more direct expedient of placing a large piece of furniture or a big
box over the spot) will discourage such repeat offenses.

-b

	When I moved to my present apartment, I put the litterbox between the 
toilet and the wall. It was a nice convenient (for me) place to put it 
without its getting in my way. C'mell had no problem with this arrangement, 
but Apollo would insist on using the bathtub. After I moved it from its 
original location to a more open area in the bathroom, even Apollo started 
using it. (Has the vet given your kittens a clean bill of health? When Apollo 
had a bout of cystitis, he kept leaving puddles.)

	We started our kitties off with a cut-down cardboard box, since
the regular litter-boxes were too deep for them to get into.  If yours
are still little, then this may be the problem.  If they're big, maybe
the box is too small for them?

	Another method to entice them to the proper spot is to dump any
solid "mistakes" into the box so they know what it's for.  You can also,
as another writer said, put them into the box after they eat.  If you
move their paws in digging motions in the litter, maybe they'll under-
stand....

	If they're still little, maybe they're having problems navigating
the stairs when they're "under duress"?  Perhaps you could have two boxes,
one upstairs and one down?

The kitties might be objecting to the litter box filler.  I'd stay away from
Litter Green brand.  The time I bought it, my cat went on a constipation
strike for several days.

--PSW

Cheap, and thus dusty litter can also be a problem.

Also make sure the box isn't too close to where they eat.

Val & Jon

If you also have older cats, the kittens might be terrorized into not using the
box.  My big cat did that to the little one for a while - took me while to
discover where the little one WAS going!  It seems that there was this small
rip in the bottom covering of the box springs, just big enough for Nebula to
crawl in side of, and that's where she was going!  After I discovered that
(took a several days, until the smell got bad enough - little kitties don't
do much at any one time), I ripped off the covering adn started carrying her
(past the big cat) downstairs to her box after each time she ate or drank.
She caught on after 4-5 days, and hasn't been any trouble since then (5 years
ago), except once when the pair of them were being wormed, during which time
they made messes all over the basement.  I guess it took a couple of weeks for
the big cat to figure out that the little one was a CAT, instead of some
other small beast of some sort (dog, maybe); Nebula spent most of her
first two weeks with me living behind the refrigerator where the big cat
wouldn't fit, only coming out to eat and drink (and make messes; they really
won't mess where they sleep; though it did take a few days for me to
discover that part!).

/Charlotte

    I don't know if this is jealousy, just being mean, or if he isn't
    feeling well.
    
    About 2 months ago we acquired another cat, Shanti. Charlie, the
    first cat, had no major problems with that -- just a little sulking.
    But for the past month has been over it.
    
    Well last night, he was just lying around, not moving alot. He got
    up, and took a dump on our love seat! 
    
    I checked the litter box, since I had just cleaned it the day before,
    and it was empty, so a messy box wasn't the problem. He was only
    10 feet from it too! Could it be that since he didn't look like
    himself (not feeling well) that he did that? It's very unusual for
    him, cause since we've had him (1-1/2 years) he's ALWAYS used the
    litter box.
    
    Any suggestions?
    

    Does he still not look well???  He may be having a problem with
    worms or may not be feeling well for another reason....Can you give
    us anymore information??  
    
    This doesn't rule out jealousy....but, let's rule out the other
    possibilities first.
    
    cin
    

    This morning when I left for work, he was still just lying around.
    He's a very active cat (almost ballistic, you might say), and this
    is QUITE unusual for him to be so 'sedate'. 
    
    He was just at the vets about a month ago and they said "no worms".
    The only thing that I've given him different is catnip. Does it
    sound unusual for a cat to be allergic to catnip??
    
    He also is meowing funny. His voice is sort of crackly at the first
    couple tries, then comes back. He isn't sneezing or coughing, though,
    cause I thought he might have a cold or upper respiratory infection.
    
    The other cat, Shanti, is having no problems -- she's becoming more
    and more ballistic! 
    
    

    It is possible for a cat to have an allergic reaction to catnip.
    I once showed two Turkish Angora Cats for a friend in Ohio, one
    of which was allergic to Catnip.  Oddie and Velvet were two of the
    most calm and loving cats....both were white with blue eyes and,
    yes, they were both deaf.  
    
    Oddie was allergic to catnip....I had to be careful when I took
    him to shows that there was no catnip even in the cages around his!
    It seemed to make him very disoriented and he would get mean and
    uncontrollable.  It only happened once during the year I had him...at
    a show!!   He sent bezerk....took half the show hall to catch him
    and he had to be withdrawn from the show for the day.  There was
    a catnip toy in the cage directly behind his and somehow he got
    it....he was fine later that evening, but I have never seen such
    a personality change in a cat!
    
    I would tend to doubt that it's actually the catnip, but you never
    know...have you fed him anything different in the last few days??
    
    cin
    

    One of my kitties had a similar (going to bathroom in wrong place)
    problem once when smaller.  She had eaten a snow pea the evening
    before.  She asked for it, and I knew cats ate some green stuff
    (grass etc.) and thougth we would try it.  Bad idea.  next morning
    she didn't make it to the litter box - she tried though! 
    No more snow peas...
    
    Unless you can find out what is causing the problems (the lethargy
    as well as the litter box problem) I would call the vet.  Better
    safe than sorry!
    
    Sally
    

    I just called the Vet and they want to see him as soon as I can
    get there. (That doesn't make me feel too warm and fuzzy...)
    
    I also remembered the newest thing I've given him to eat. I bought
    some kitty treats called "Bonkers". That could be a possibility.
    
    

    One of my cats has a problem with Bonkers.  Gives him diarrhea.  I
    stopped using them soon after I figured out what it was.  It only
    took one or two of those little nuggets to do the job.
    
    There has been several times when they've had the same
    symptoms as what you describe, 'sedate'.
    So far each time its been due to upset stomach or digestive problems.
    I always keep a few jars of baby food handy for such occasions,
    strained chicken works best.  It is very easy for them to digest 
    in comparison to meats.  

    Still a good idea to see the vet if he is not better soon.
    

    I took Charlie to the vet last night. I explained the symptoms to
    the vet, and explained that he was an indoor cat, and that we have
    one other cat. He immediately wanted to know if they had fought
    at all -- and I remembered last Saturday that they had seen a stray
    cat out our patio window, and decided to have it out as to who would
    defend the house! Shanti had a few scratches on her belly, but I
    never noticed any on Charlie .... until last night.
    
    The vet examined him and we found 5 bites on his head! Even though
    they had already turned to scabs, he said this was the problem.
    That when they bite, that the puncture wounds allow bacteria to
    get in and make the cat sick. And sick he was! A temperature of
    103.4, dehydrated, and his stomach was sore all over! 
    
    The vet gave him 3 shots - 1 on each side that left little pockets
    of water to be absorbed in his body over the next 12 hours, and
    a shot of amoxillin. When the vet brought him back to me after his
    shots, he was so HAPPY! He licked me and nuzzled -- he was ALMOST
    acting like he was normal! He does have to take a dropper full of
    amoxillin twice a day, and that should do it.
    
    This morning, he was feeling better -- meowing a little, and even
    moving! All in all, he looks, and seems like he feels ALOT better.
    
    But out of all the things I thought was wrong, I would have NEVER
    suspected that bites would do that!
    
    I sure learned alot!
    
    

    I think cats are so smart by doing this ( breaking litterbox)!
    When you think about it, cats have almost no means of letting
    us know when they are physically or psychologically distressed.
    A lot of physical illnesses have no outward symptomatic mani-
    festation.  So, what's the one thing that a cat knows is sure
    to get the attentions of its person?   Breaking litterbox,
    that's what!  From my own experience and this file, urinating
    and/or defacating outside the box is always a sign that a cat
    is physically or psychologically distressed, and therefore the
    cause of such behavior should be rigorously pursued.
    
    
    Donna

    Last year one of my male cats got into a bad fight with a stray
    and I took him to the Vet to be neutered.  The vet took one look
    at the bite on his throat and said that it was very deep and absessed.
    I had no idea he was this bad.  I was only there to get him neutered.
    I had to leave the cat and never saw him again for 11 weeks.  The
    infection spread into his throat and he also came down with pneumonia.
    He almost died three times and had to be fed introvenously.  He
    weighed about 13 lbs when I brought him in and when he came home
    he weighed about 3 or 4.  All this from a bad bite on the throat.
    He came home unneutered and had to go back a few weeks later to
    be fixed.