Conference misery::feline_v1

If your new babies are a blueish to greyish color then I would say that they are part Russian Blue.  Russian Blue is the only breed that has anything to do with Russian as part of the breed name.

Russian Blue's are usually strong muscular cats (kittens) of a blueish-gray
color.  They are also known to be very affectionate and like any cat, tend
to own their keeper!!!

As far as the food bit, I would say the little fella is just giving you
a hint of what he thinks of the food you put down.  It may take them several
days to adjust to a change in diet, try not to spoil them too much during
this period or you'll have a hard time changing later.  Or, he may just be
full.  My cats will try to "cover" their food when they are done eatting, 
strange habit I think, but most of them do it!!!

My personal opinion on cats going outside is that they shouldn't!!!  Cats
only get on  chance with cars, and they usually don't end up coming out
of it too good.  If you don't ever let them outside, they won't know what 
their missing and will be perfectly happy indoors.  Litter Box duty isn't
that bad in comparison to loosing a special pet under the wheel of a car.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE think twice about it before you decide for sure on
allowing your kittens to become outside pets.  I would like other opinions
on letting cats out, but I personally don't think it's fair to the cat.  
The average life expectancy of an indoor cat is 17 - 20 years, while  the
average life expectancy of the outdoor cat is 1 - 2 years.  It's your 
choice.  But think it over carefully.


The average life numbers I have quoted above are from Cats Magazine a
few months ? years? ago.  If you would really like a copy of the article
I can search my back copies and see if I can dig it out.  I think these
numbers are probably pretty accurate.  I lost 3 kittens (6 mo and older)
before I learned my lesson, now all my cats (usually 20 or more) are 
indoor cats only.  

Good Luck with the babies.

	Whether or not you let your kittens outdoors should probably depend 
on where you live.  I lived in downtown Waltham with kittens (now cats)
for a couple of years.  We tried to keep the litle guys ignorant of the
great outdoors for as long as possible, but once they'd look at it, BREAKOUT
became their favorite game.  
	If you live in a place where the cars rev up when passing pedestrians
and drag race down side streets (like Waltham), then keep them inside.  On
the other hand, if you live on a dirt road in Weston (like I do now), then
the decision's not so clear cut.
	The statistics from .1 match up pretty well with my own experience,
though I do have one outdoor cat who's 16 years old.
	Just be wary that ctas are curious and once you let 'em know that 
there's more than the inside of your house, you'll be up against a pair of
ruthless Houdinis (sp).

Indoor vs. outdoor was also discussed in note 8; you might find some helpful
comments there.

-b

Ref. 2:

Thanks very much for the information. You were a great help.

The two new kittens (the male we named "Snoopy" and the female we
named "Sheena") are both very active and adapting very well to
their new home. As you pointed out, they appear very muscular
as they constantly "battering" with each other in a playful manner.

As far as letting them outdoors -- we live in a very remote area with
almost no traffic in front of the house. We also had adopted them with
the intention of being half outdoors and half indoors. We would like
them to hunt mice in the daytime outdoors, and sleep inside a night.
I just can't comprehend the poor little things outside during the
winter months, especially at night.

Snoopy is the color you described -- grey with a little blue. Sheena
isn't quiet as grey; she has some yellow mix colors in her coat.
The people we obtained the little babbies from said the mother was
1/4 Russian -- so I guess they aren't all that much.

Thanks, again.

-- Bob

When I've had kittens that I allowed outdoors, the first few times I would
go out with them to keep an eye on them (I didn't bring the litter box out,
since they had the Big Outdoors as their litter box).  They don't usually
wander too far when they're young.  Eventually, I'd let them outside by
themselves.  Cats are usually pretty smart at figuring out where their home
is (that's where the food is, after all!).  

						-- Nina

The scratching around to try to cover food is apparently a behavioral
instinct in cats, especially those that have been feral for a good part of
their lives.  Cats bury the remains of their kills for the same reason they
bury their feces--to cover up scent that would tell other animals there is
a predator in the vicinity.

--PSW

just for the record -- I lived in a "rural" area too, and lost two cats
to road kill.  I rest my case.

I'd like to further the comment on how cats will find a way to get into
the great outdoors once they know it's there.

I have three cats and live in a third floor appartment here in Nashua.
I discovered, much to my dismay, this summer that my oldest tom cat
(Sir Cat) was letting himself in and out of the apartment at will.

It took a while to figure out how, but one day my neighbor watched him from
her balcony.  The cat opened the door and screen door (sliding) to my
patio, jumped from the patio to the window sill in the hall (from the outside)
and then walked down the stairs and out the laundry room door on the
first floor.  

If a cat really wants to get out, there is almost no way to prevent it--
regardless of whether he is an indoor or outdoor cat.  Sir Cat has 
always been an indoor cat.

     I live in a quiet neighborhood.  The neighborhood residents are
mostly elderly and the big weekend activity is to sit in the driveway,
talk to the neighbors and watch the power struggles between my two
cats and the four next door.  It seems my two spend a good deal of
time next door and their four are always trying to get into my house.

     I am an avid believer in letting cats out if the neighborhood is
suitable.  I lost one cat once on a busy street and I probably should never
have let him out.  I think some cats develop a good traffic "sense".  My
mutt, Tigger, used to follow me to the end of the driveway when I lived
on the busy street.  There was a convenience store across the street.
She would sit at the edge of the driveway and wait for me to walk back.
She has always been very careful about the street.  My general opinion
is that some cats develop this sense, but most do not.

     As for the original question about letting cats out initially,
here's what I have done.  If you have sent kids off to a first day
of school, I imagine the feeling is similar the first time you let
your cats out.  I waited until I had a full day at home.  I then
propped the front door open and let the cats go in and out as they
pleased.  I did this a few times (and suffered the presence of a few
flying insects) and then gradually started leaving the door open for
a few minutes here and there.  The cats figured out on their own
to ask to go out (by standing at the door or meowing).  It was
easy and painless (except for the bug bites).

Denise

Hello!

Greetings from across the Atlantic.....my own opinion is that the cats should 
have their freedom - although this of course depends upon the area in which
you live.

Do you live in a city or a rural town?  Is your home on a busy street or a
quiet backwater?

I have two adorable cats - a Blue Longhair and a Seal Colourpoint (known as a
Seal Himalayan in the US).  I live on a rather large housing estate but the
traffic movement is minimal and the cats (Ming and Tosca) have freedom to do as
they please.  No harm ever comes to them and all the neighbours know who they
are.  

So there you are - do your own thing - don't let anyone persuade you either
way!

Regards
John Fox

    I, personally, can't comprehend keeping a cat indoors. Being the
    independant creatures that they are, they need to be able to roam
    free. What must be remembered is that cats are basically very smart
    animals(yes, even the ones that sometimes act brain-damaged). We
    have had cats ever since I was born(14 at that time) and they have
    all been allowed to go in or out as they please(even when we lived
    in center city Philadelphia). Out of the 50 or more cats that we
    have owned only two have been hit by cars. One was just a year old
    and the other one the driver of the car drove on the sidewalk to
    do it. Someone earlier was mentioning something about treating cats
    the same way you would treat kids. Definitely take it slowly. Don't
    let your cat out for the first time and close the door and leave
    th house fro two days. For the first two or three times you should
    go out with your kitten to get him or her used to the area. After
    that they should be pretty much fine unless they're to young. Also
    if you move to a new house or apartment and take your cats with
    you, you should keep them in the house for 7 days so they can get
    used to their new surroundings and not try to go back to their old
    neighborhood. However as has been said before you should do what
    you feel is right but just think how you would feel if someone never
    let you go outside. Remember cats are people too:-)
    
    					Geoff

    There are lots of things I haven't been exposed to that I don't
    miss at all.  Cats are very smart, indeed!  But I think that one
    must do what one feels most comfortable with.  I personally cannot
    deal with the thought of either of my boys getting fleas, getting
    into fights, or being hurt by anyone or anything.  This is because
    I'm a real wimp and overly sensitive and can't handle it.  I just
    plain can't handle it (geeze, I'm getting teary-eyed just thinking
    about it....wimp...).  So there really isn't a right-or-wrong issue
    here.  I do what I can live with, and try to see that my guys have
    the best quality of life I can provide them.  And, at the same time,
    I accept your feelings about this and respect them as well.
    
    We all do the best we can...
    
    Mary

    Certainly play things by ear...
    
    Maggie, now 12, quit going outside when her dog died 2-1/2 years
    ago. [He thought she was _his_ pet when we brought her home and
    did until the day he died; but the rest of us knew differently]
    
    When Maggie came to live with us, Teddy [malamute/collie mix mentioned
    above] took her in and out with him.  Once she passed kittenhood,
    they didn't often stick together once outside; but she waited for
    him to go in and out.  When he died she stopped going out completely.
    After 3 or 4 months she began to accompany me when I worked in
    the yard; after 18 months she began to ask to go out on the porch;
    now she wanders around the yard [it's fairly large and densely wooded]
    for an hour or two at a time when I'm home.  Occasionally, she asks
    me to go out in the yard and do something -- then she goes and wanders
    around the neighbors' yards. [I think she's still looking for Teddy
    to come home in a rather laid back way.  I don't think she _expects_
    him anymore, as she has taken on some of his 'chores' such as helping
    me cook, emptying the garbage onto the kitchen floor, running to
    the front door when the bell rings...]
    
    Annie

    I just saw a nature tv show on Connecticut paid tv and it showed
    the large jungle cats covering their "kill" after they ate so as
    to save it for later and hide it so other animals wouldn't steal
    it on them.

hi,
    please help me here feliners...
    
    i have had kittens before-older kittens 6-9 month old ones and never
    had any litterbox problems.
    the two kittens i have now(ali and chuckles) are 9 weeks old.
    the breeder had them trained on shredded newspaper(whether thats
    good or bad i dont know).i brought them home in a cat carrier that
    had some old soft towels in there and they messed on those on the
    way home. what i did when i got home was fill the litterbox with
    grit,shredded newspaper and a piece of the towel that they had wet
    on.they seemed to love that just fine,no messes at all. i started
    to gradually take out the newspaper and little bits of the towel
    till there was just grit and at the same time gave them the run
    of the house.
    
    problem:they will urinate in the litterbox but do other matters
    on cloth.i have set up the litter box back to the way it was(newspaper,
    grit,towel). am i doing the right thing? i would like to break them
    of this habit
    
    one last question...
    the breeder had them on dry food and i want them on canned food.
    i dont want to starve them,but i dont want them on dry food either.
    is that saying true"if they get hungry enough they will eat"?
    
    thanks in advance
    
    kelly

    I've heard that if you want to change foods, start introducing the
    new food gradually, that is, mix a little of it in with the old,
    then more, etc.  I'm not sure how this would work with dry to moist.
    
    Could you maybe substitute paper towels for the real towel pieces
    and see if they'd accept that?
    

    I would wean them off the dry food, gradually incorporating
    more wet food.  Don't make an abrupt diet change.  Kittens
    especially seem prone to digestive upsets when you do this.
    
    By grit, do you mean litter?  How about depositing the
    solid wastes that you find on cloth into the box and showing
    it to the kittens.  And also take their paws and attempt
    to cover it (kind of like scratching post training).
    
    Donna

    well i was thinking of trying to mix some of the moister dry food
    with the canned food(meow mix or something).
    
    i have another question...
    
    they dont seem to be cleaning (how should i say this?) their private
    parts very well either. will this come with time? maybe they are
    as clean as they want to be right now....
    
    kelly

    Kelly,  did the breeder have them eating Meow Mix?  I'm surprised,
    as I would have thought most breeders try to feed their kittens
    better quality food than that.  Something like Iams or Science
    Diet usually.  Do try to get a lo-ash dry food for them.  My cats
    love dry food mixed in with their wet.  For now, since dry has
    been their primary diet,  mix in a little wet with the dry, and
    gradually adjust the ratio towards more wet, less dry.
    
    Can't help with the hygiene problem!  
    
    Donna

    I think they do get better about cleaning themselves up as they
    get older.  If they were still with their Mom, she'd be helping
    them.  I've never had a kitten, but a friend of mine was washing
    her kitten's behind the other day, and made some remark to that
    effect.
     

    Aja used to mess herself up in the litter box too. It was something
    she literally grew out of. When she was little, she kinda sat in
    her own mess because she was too little to get above it.
    
    I really couldn't think of any way to teach her how to clean up
    her act. She wouldn't read any handbooks and I was NOT going to
    demonstrate the appropriate measures.
    
    Until then, keep a damp facecloth handy....
    
    Edd
    

    well they are banished to the kitchen ;-(
    chuckles urinated on someones suit coat for work...
    
    i cleaned their bums last night so all should be well
    
    no,she did not feed them meow mix,i meant to say maybe i'll mix
    some TENDER VITTLES in with the canned. the list she gave me does
    not mention dry food at all but i know she was feeding them something
    in a green bag.
    
    they look so lonesome in the kitchen...
    
    
    kelly

    Well.....how are they?
    
    Are they out of their 'face cloth nappies' yet?
    
    Eating well?
    
    By the way are you in US or UK?  I keep wondering if this is an almost
    totally US conference?
    
    Jo
    Reading, UK.
    

    well  they are much better now.
    it has been 3 weeks since the last mess. 
    well almost  3 weeks(the last one was one the suit coat owners blanket
    and he doesnt know yet. its a down comforter).
    
    they are eating everything in sight:crisps seem to be a big hit
    with them,pizza crusts another one
    
    one thing i have noticed is that they drink A LOT of water,at least
    two bowls a day.i dont know what that means...
    
    
    i am in the U.S 
    the suit coat owner is from the U.K.
    he is not overly impressed with their antics (tough beans),
    he could give you an earful if you have a mind to
    
    kelly
    

    Two bowls of water a day!  That's too much.  Perhaps they
    are knocking a lot of water out of the bowl?
    
    Donna

    Not to panic, but excessive water consumption is a sign of,
    among other possibilities, kidney disease, which needs treatment
    as soon as possible.  Two bowls a day -- that's excessive.
    

    that is what i am wondering too
    
    i mentioned  it to the vet,but he said they are just playing with
    it,but i dont think so...
    
    ali,is thin and sneezes alot and always has yellow mucus around
    her nose...
    
    but other than that,they are great! 
    whats really funny is that ali is much more aggressive then
    chuckles,she cant sit still for a minute.
    
    
    kelly

    What did the vet say about the mucus?
    

    not much,as there wasnt any when i brought her.
    it has crossed my mind about luekemia....
    
    he told me to ad water to the canned food also.he said that even
    though it is canned there is still not enough moisture in it.
    
    he also mentioned that he has seen an increase in accidental kitten
    deaths by cassette tapes(they eat the tape).
    
    kelly

    So, is she going into the vet to have these problems looked at?
    

    well i found something strange near the litterbox
    
    a shoelace that looks like it has gone through a cats digestive
    system.
    ali has  all of a sudden started to weight on...
    
           kelly