Conference back40::soapbox

    
    I am in favour of birth control.
    

    
    Whoops. I forgot to add the spermatozoa wall of death to
    my list...

    -b

    
    	My sister told me about "the shot" last week, and I believe
    	that's what she's using now.
    
    	But she says there is a side effect ... once stopping "the
    	shot", it could be awhile before you can conceive again,
    	like a few months to a year.
    

    Should we force birth control upon young girls receiving welfare who
    are too incompetant to be parents?

    
    You do have some weird fetishes, Jack Martin.
    
    -b

    I wish they would come up with one for men (other than the condom). I
    have no trouble being responsible for my own actions.

>    I wish they would come up with one for men 

They did. Some don't have the, er, nerve for it, though.

    jack, you take yourself much too seriously.  either lighten
    up or light up or something.

    
    my doctor told me about "the shot" (after a somewhat lenghthy tirade
    about how he won't ever suggest norplant to a patient)...don't remember
    much about it, other than the side effects were not worth it to me.
    
    the pill has it's good points and some bad points.  each vary with each
    individual user.  some people i know have had nothing but good points
    from it.  others i know were forced off of it because they got all the
    bad points.  
    
    once again, i guess i didn't have a whole heck of a lot to say, eh?

    
    
    Good to see you back around, Raq.  What's this not a lot to say,
    stuff???????
    
    Mike (who's been snipped and tucked ;'))

    
    I don't recommend the cervical cap.
    

    hurts your ears?

    
    
    	Oh drat, I know the name of the shot but it escapes me
    	at the moment......
    

    
    Baby-Be-Gone
    

    
    
    Depo Provera or some such....  I think.
    
    
    It troubles me, perhaps grievously so, that I have 
    no idea why I (might) know this!
    
    Walt
    

    Depo-Provera is "the shot"  It has quite a long list of nasty side
    effects, I will see what I can pull up out of other notes.
    
    Being pro-choice, Jack I don't believe in making peoples' reproductive
    choices for them.  given the fact that many women can't handle extra
    progestins (the ingedient in both Nor-plant and Depo-provera) you could
    be risking killing a woman by forcing it on her.  
    
    meg

    Percent of women experiencing an accidental pregnancy
    in the first year of continuous use comparisons:
    
    I did take this off a Depo-Provera patient information sheet in the
    baby magazine my diaper service supplies.  

    Now I am not a statistician, but it seems to me that adding male 
    contraception (condom or vasectomy) in combination with female 
    contraception decreases the odds of an accidental pregnancy by a 
    pretty good margin.  

    Given the fact that the most reliable methods for women are also
    prone to some pretty major side effects, I would think a loving 
    partner would be willing to use a condom in addition to his female
    counterparts use of one of the less effective, but safer barrier
    methods.  

    
    Method		Lowest Expected		Typical
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Depo-Provera    |      	0.3		|  0.3
    
    Norplant	    |		0.3		|  0.3
    
    Tubal Ligation  |		0.2		|  0.4
    
    Vasectomy       |		 .1		|   .15
    
    Combined Pill   |		0.1		|  3.0
    
    Mini Pill	    |           0.5             |  3.0
    
    IUD's:
    
    Progestasert    |		2.0		|  3.0
    Copper T	    |		0.8		|  3.0
    
    Condom(no 	    |		2.0		| 12.0
    Spermicid)
    
    Diaphram(with   |		6.0		| 18.0
    Spermicide)
    
    Cervical cap    | 		6.0		| 18.0
    
    Withdrawal	    |		4.0		| 18.0
    
    Periodic	    |		1-9		| 20
    Abstinence
    (Rythym)
    
    Spermicide 	    |		3		| 21
    (only)
    
    Vaginal sponge  |
    Before child-
    birth	    |		6		| 18
    
    After child-
    birth	    |		9		| 28
    
    No method	    |		85		| 85
    
    

    
    Birth Control brand name:  "Preg-Not".
                    
    For less effective forms:  "Baby-Maybe".
                            
    

    
    Zyg-out
    

    
    Another waitress,
    With an IUD
    Went to the clinic,
    She got it FREE!
    
    	- Tubes, "Boy Crazy"

    Womb Broom
    Mom Bomb
    Baby Not
    
    Courtesy of George Carlin

    Poppa Stopper

    Sperm-Out

    
    Circ circ circular impression
    Leading to a state of depression
    In my walla walla walla walla wallet
    I can't wait to install it.
    

>    Being pro-choice, Jack I don't believe in making peoples' reproductive
>    choices for them.  

    I'll let the women drop as many kids as they want ... as long as they
    don't force the taxpayer to pick up the tab for the results. 

    Reproductive rights?  Sure, but with rights go responsibilities.

    -- Dave

    |I'll let the women drop as many kids as they want ...
    
    actually, when _anyone_ drops a kid, well, that might be a
    case of child abuse.

    
    Ban kids!
    
    

>    actually, when _anyone_ drops a kid, well, that might be a
>    case of child abuse.

    Depends on how far you drop 'em.  I've dropped both my kids a number of
    times ... usually onto a couch and they always come back to me saying
    "again".

    -- Dave

    that's good!  i knew you could learn!  i knew
    you knew the true meaning of the word "drop"!
    well, good for you!

If Flatman drops his kids too far, do they become flatkids?

    
    Flatman.
    
    No offense dude, but weren't you a superhero in a Saturday
    morning comic?
    
    -b

    flat as a cracker he is.

    
    Where is that cute little cracker graphic...
    
    
    

			^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
	               {               }
	               {   o       o   }
	               {               }
	               {       o       }
	               {               }
	               {   o       o   }
	               {               }
		        vvvvvvvvvvvvvvv   
    

    hmm.  is it a cracker or a new birth control device?

>    Flatman.
>    
>    No offense dude, but weren't you a superhero in a Saturday
>    morning comic?

    Are you thinking of Flatman and Ribbon, which was the subtitle of
    Batman and Robin meet the Steam Roller?

    If there actually was a comic strip hero named Flatman, I missed it.

    -- Dave

    
    I just remember some show with four superhero types, one of
    which, I believe, would "get flat" and slip under doors and
    such. Something like that.
    
    -b

    
    re: drop....
    
    Isn't it actually the way it happens (naturally)?
    
    In days of yore, didn't the woman just sqaut and out the baby dropped??
    

    
    At least in Ireland, in Monty Python movies.
    
    -b

   in Pearl S. Buck novels, too.  then you would continue harvesting
   whatever needed harvesting, of course, with maybe a little ten-minute
   rest period or something.

    
    
    Saw some Indian... er... Native American do the drop too... This in
    between skinning the deer that hubby brung home...
    

    
    Oh no.  No baby talk here too.  This is the non-baby topic!
    
    

>    re: drop....

>    Isn't it actually the way it happens (naturally)?
>    In days of yore, didn't the woman just sqaut and out the baby dropped??

    Drop is also the term used when the baby moves towards the birth canal. 
    My understanding is that the baby can drop anywhere from the day of
    birth to 4 weeks before birth.

    As far as the squat position goes, that can be another use of the term. 
    My wife used the squat position when my daughter was born.  She was in
    labor for several hours and was trying to maximize the use of gravity. 
    Of course it was only after my wife was given a good shaking (Landers
    earthquake) that the kid dropped free.

    -- Dave

    Can't do that in NH.  Too rocky.  No Good Earth.

    
    Oh, thanks.  I just yurpled all over my keyboard 8^p.
    
    

    
    	RE: Brian
    
    	That was "The Mighty Heroes", I believe.
    
    	But I forgot their names.
    

    
    Was that the one with Babyman, or whatever he was called?
    

    
    	Yes, that was one of them.
    

    
    And, um, Rubberman?  Chickenman?
    
    

    
    	Not sure about Chickenman, but Rubberman sounds right.
    
    	Babyman
    	Rubberman
    	Chickenman [?]
    

    re, Ireland
    
    Nope, it was Yorkshire. {the third world}

    
    actually, it was diaperman, not babyman.  and one of the was a bird,
    yes, but i believe 'cuckoo' was in his name, as that is what he said
    all the time...and there was one made of rubber/elastic, but his
    actual name escapes me.  there was a 4th one, but i don't even remember
    the last time i thought about these guys...
    
    i miss the good after-school cartoons...
    
    

    Babyman, Ropeman, Strongman, Cuckooman and Tornadoman - as I recall.

    
    i was pretty sure it was diaper man, but i am sure you got the rest of
    them right...forgot all about tornadoman.  and it was ropes, not
    elastic/rubber.  wasn't one of them 'grouned' (as in he didn't fly)??
    
          

    Flatman,
    
    women are only 50% of the equation regarding pregnancies.  Even an
    "accident" with a turkey baster takes a coopoerative male somewhere
    along the line.  
    
    women don't get themselves pregnant.  Instead of giving women 100% of
    the responsibility, I would think a male should be responsible for his
    50% contribution to a child.
    
    meg

>    women don't get themselves pregnant.  Instead of giving women 100% of
>    the responsibility, I would think a male should be responsible for his
>    50% contribution to a child.

    Yeah meg, so what's your point?  When did I ever say that the
    biological father should be let off the hook?  I am saying that the
    taxpayer shouldn't be stuck with it.  The taxpayer/government didn't
    have anything to do with the creation of the pregnancy.

    Now, if you're point is that men who have children on welfare should be
    offered up some form of BC that they don't have to think about, then I
    have no argument.  Of course the man won't have the choice of Norplant
    nor the shot, but there is the more permanent option.

    -- Dave

    Great.  After re-reading all my replies in this stream I realize that I
    referenced something in .55 that I wrote but deleted before exiting the
    editor.

    I had written that the government should offer people on welfare a
    means of birth control that they don't have to think about (e.g.,
    Norplant) for free.  If they refuse the free offer, fine, but
    subsequent offspring should not entitle the person to an increase in
    welfare payments.

    -- Dave

Chickenman? From the radio?

You not _old_enough_ to remember that, Deb. Are you?

>Chickenman? From the radio?



 He's everywhere, he's everywhere!

    well, then, how's the wife and the droppings?

    
    	We women have gotten so lazy these days, huh ?
    
    	I mean, having our babies in the hospital and lounging
    	around for at least a couple hours.  Next time, I gonna
    	drop my baby and go right on and finish that aerobics class.
    	
             

    
    "Chickenman" was on Armed Forces Radio in Japan in the early 70's.  They 
    also had, every weeknight at nine, two half-hour old radio shows like
    The Great Gildersleeve, Fibber McGee & Molly, Have Gun Will Travel, The
    Shadow, My Favourite Husband, bla bla bla.
    
    I have a Fibber McGee & Molly closet in my hallway.
    
    
    
    

     Z   I had written that the government should offer people on welfare a
     Z   means of birth control that they don't have to think about (e.g.,
     Z   Norplant) for free.  If they refuse the free offer, fine, but
     Z   subsequent offspring should not entitle the person to an increase
     Z   in welfare payments.
    
    Talked about this in the abortion topic. Issues were brought up
    regarding religious beliefs and what not.  I happen to agree with it
    but the mucky mucks in here don't seem to want to compromise.
    
    -Jack

    
      You know, it's interesting.  Back when we were both trying to have
     kids and succeeding, we discovered that it adds something good to
     sex, and not just because of not using these awkward devices.  When
     we had enough progeny, we used them again, of course, until we
     determined there was no further possibility of pregnancy.  But not
     using the devices doesn't bring back that special something that
     procreation by mutual intent does.  We even speculated if the
     personality of the person we were making might be affected by the
     mood during the act.
    
      bb

    That's interesting. I've experienced the exact opposite.

    
    	Suzanne's list is correct, except that "Babyman" is actually
    	"Diaperman", like Raq said.
    
    	And WBRU used to have "Chickenman" episodes on every morning
    	in the mid-late 80's.
    

This is prescribing and side effect warning information regarding progestins.  
Thanks to Jamie Anderson for providing this information.  

As you can see none of these methods would be a good thing for women who
are breastfeeding a child, the least expensive form of nutrtion and prevention
of disease among infants, and something I believe should be encouraged by 
all social workers and health care providors of both well-off and poor women.

meg
Progestins (Systemic)

Overview: PROGESTINS (Systemic) 
------------------------------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

It is very important that you read and understand the following information. If
any of it causes you special concern, check with your doctor. Also, if you have
any questions or if you want more information about this medicine or your
medical problem, ask your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist.

Brand and Common Names 
---------------------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

Some commonly used brand names are

In the U.S.
   Amen (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone) (Generic
      name product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Aygestin (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   Curretab (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Generic name product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Cycrin (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Generic name product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Depo-Provera (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Generic name product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Gesterol 50 (Progesterone (proe-JESS-ter-one) (Generic name
      product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Hy/Gestrone (Hydroxyprogesterone (hye-drox-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Not commercially available in Canada.) (Generic name product
      may also be available in the U.S.))
   Hylutin (Hydroxyprogesterone (hye-drox-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone) (Not
      commercially available in Canada.) (Generic name product may
      also be available in the U.S.))
   Megace (Megestrol (me-JESS-trole) (Generic name product may also
      be available in the U.S.))
   Micronor (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   Norlutate (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   Norlutin (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   Nor-QD (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   Ovrette (Norgestrel (nor-JESS-trel) (Not commercially available
      in Canada.))
   Pro-Depo (Hydroxyprogesterone (hye-drox-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Not commercially available in Canada.) (Generic name product
      may also be available in the U.S.))
   Prodrox (Hydroxyprogesterone (hye-drox-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone) (Not
      commercially available in Canada.) (Generic name product may
      also be available in the U.S.))
   Pro-Span (Hydroxyprogesterone (hye-drox-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Not commercially available in Canada.) (Generic name product
      may also be available in the U.S.))
   Provera (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Generic name product may also be available in the U.S.))

In Canada
   Depo-Provera (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Generic name product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Megace (Megestrol (me-JESS-trole) (Generic name product may also
      be available in the U.S.))
   Micronor (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   Norlutate (Norethindrone (nor-eth-IN-drone))
   PMS-Progesterone (Progesterone (proe-JESS-ter-one) (Generic name
      product may also be available in the U.S.))
   Provera (Medroxyprogesterone (me-DROX-ee-proe-JESS-te-rone)
      (Generic name product may also be available in the U.S.))

Another commonly used name is norethisterone.

Description 
----------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

Progestins (proe-JESS-tins) are sometimes called female hormones. They are
produced by the body and are necessary during the childbearing years for the
development of the milk-producing glands, and for the proper regulation of the
menstrual cycle.

Progestins are prescribed for several reasons:

   o for the proper regulation of the menstrual cycle.

   o to treat a certain type of disorder of the uterus known as
     endometriosis.

   o to prevent pregnancy, when used in birth-control pills.

   o to help treat selected cases of cancer of the breast,
     kidney, or uterus.
   o for testing the body's production of certain hormones.

Progestins may also be used for other conditions as determined by your doctor.

Progestins should not be used in pregnancy tests or in most cases of threatened
miscarriage, since there have been some reports that these medications may cause
harmful effects on the fetus. However, progesterone is sometimes used in a few
patients to treat a certain type of infertility. These patients are given
progesterone because their bodies do not produce enough natural progesterone to
support a pregnancy. Progesterone is used if this problem has not responded well
to other types of treatment.

To make the use of a progestin as safe and reliable as possible, you should
understand how and when to take it and what effects may be expected. A paper
with information for the patient may be given to you with your filled
prescription, and will provide many details concerning most uses of this
medicine. Read this paper carefully and ask your health care professional if you
need additional information or explanation.

Progestins are available only with your doctor's prescription, in the following
dosage forms:

   Oral
      Medroxyprogesterone
         o Tablets (U.S. and Canada)
      Megestrol
         o Tablets (U.S. and Canada)
      Norethindrone
         o Tablets (U.S. and Canada)
      Norgestrel
         o Tablets (U.S.)

   Parenteral
      Hydroxyprogesterone
         o Injection (U.S.)
      Medroxyprogesterone
         o Injection (U.S. and Canada)
      Progesterone
         o Injection (U.S. and Canada)

   Rectal
      Progesterone
         o Suppositories   Vaginal
      Progesterone
         o Suppositories

Before Using This Medicine 
-------------------------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

Before you begin using any new medicine (prescription or nonprescription) or if
you develop any new medical problem while you are using this medicine, check
with your doctor, nurse, or pharmacist.

In deciding to use a medicine, the risks of taking the medicine must be weighed
against the good it will do. This is a decision you and your doctor will make.
For progestins, the following should be considered:

ALLERGIES:  Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic
reaction to progestins. Also tell your health care professional if you are
allergic to any other substances, such as foods, preservatives, or dyes.

PREGNANCY:  Progestins are not recommended for use during pregnancy since there
have been some reports that these medications may cause harmful effects on the
fetus. However, progesterone is sometimes used in a few patients to treat a
certain type of infertility. These patients are given progesterone because their
Press <CR> for more !
Drug Reference

bodies do not produce enough natural progesterone to support a pregnancy.
Progesterone is used if this problem has not responded well to other types of
treatment.

BREAST-FEEDING:  Progestins pass into the breast milk and may cause unwanted
effects in the nursing baby. It may be necessary for you to take another
medicine or to stop breast-feeding during treatment.

CHILDREN:  Studies on this medicine have been done only in adults, and there is
no specific information about its use in children.

OLDER ADULTS:  This medicine has been tested and has not been shown to cause
different side effects or problems in older people than it does in younger
adults.

OTHER MEDICINES:  Although certain medicines should not be used together at all,
in other cases two different medicines may be used together even if an
interaction might occur. In these cases, your doctor may want to change the
dose, or other precautions may be necessary. When you are taking a progestin, it
is especially important that your health care professional know if you are
taking any of the following:

   o Bromocriptine (e.g., Parlodel)

OTHER MEDICAL PROBLEMS:  The presence of other medical problems may affect the
use of progestins. Make sure you tell your doctor if you have any other medical
problems, especially:

   o Asthma

   o Blood clots (or history of)

   o Cancer (or history of)

   o Changes in vaginal bleeding

   o Diabetes mellitus (sugar diabetes)

   o Epilepsy

   o Heart or circulation disease

   o High blood cholesterol

   o Kidney disease

   o Liver or gallbladder disease

   o Mental depression (or history of)

   o Migraine headaches

   o Stroke (or history of)

Proper Use of This Medicine 
--------------------------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

Take this medicine only as directed by your doctor. Do not take more of it and
do not take it for a longer time than your doctor ordered. To do so may increase
the chance of side effects. Try to take the medicine at the same time each day
to reduce the possibility of side effects and to allow it to work better. When
used for birth control, this medicine should be taken every day of the year,
with doses taken 24 hours apart without interruption.

For patients using the rectal suppository form of this medicine:

   o If the suppository is too soft to insert, chill it in the
     refrigerator for 30 minutes.

   o To insert the suppository: Moisten the suppository with cold
     water. Lie down on your side and use your finger to push the
     suppository well up into the rectum.

For patients using the vaginal suppository form of this medicine:

   o Use as directed by your doctor.

DOSING:  The dose of these medicines will be different for different patients.
Follow your doctor's orders or the directions on the label. The following
information includes only the average doses of these medicines. If your dose is
different, do not change it unless your doctor tells you to do so.

The number of tablets, injections, or suppositories that you take, receive, or
use depends on the strength of the medicine. Also, the number of doses you take
or use each day, the time allowed between doses, and the length of time you take
or use the medicine depend on the medical problem for which you are taking
progestins.

For hydroxyprogesterone
   o For injection dosage form:

       For starting the menstrual cycle (amenorrhea) or
      controlling unusual and heavy bleeding of the uterus
      (dysfunctional uterine bleeding):
         o Adults and teenagers  At first, 375 milligrams ;opmg;cp
         injected into a muscle as a single dose. Depending on your
         response, your doctor may want you to receive another dose
         in four or twenty-one days. Then, you will receive another
         dose every twenty-eight days for four more months.

       For testing the amount of estrogen produced:

         o Adults and teenagers  250 mg injected into a muscle as
         a single dose once a month for two months.

       For treating cancer of the uterus:

         o Adults and teenagers  1 gram injected into a muscle one
         to seven times a week for up to twelve weeks.

       For treating unusual menstrual cycles:

         o Adults and teenagers  250 or 375 mg injected into a
         muscle as a single dose. Your doctor may also want you to
         use another hormone called estrogen. Depending on your
         response, your doctor may want you to receive an additional
         dose in four or twenty-one days. Then, you will receive
         another dose every twenty-eight days if needed.

For medroxyprogesterone
   o For oral dosage form (tablets):

       For starting the menstrual cycle (amenorrhea) or
      controlling unusual and heavy bleeding of the uterus
      (dysfunctional uterine bleeding):

         o Adults or teenagers  5 to 10 milligrams (mg) a day for
         five to ten days. Your treatment will probably begin on Day
         16 or Day 21 (counting from the beginning of your last
         period).

       For treating unusual menstrual cycles:

         o Adults or teenagers  10 mg daily for ten or thirteen
         days. Your treatment will probably begin on Day 13 through
         Day 16 (counting from the beginning of your last period).
         Your doctor may also want you to use another hormone called
         estrogen.

   o For injection dosage form:
       For treating cancer of the uterus or kidneys:

         o Adults and teenagers  At first, 400 to 1000 milligrams
         (mg) injected into a muscle as a single dose once a week.
         Then, your doctor may lower your dose to 400 mg once a
         month.

       For preventing pregnancy:

         o Adults and teenagers  150 mg injected into a muscle
         every three months.

For megestrol
   o For oral dosage form (tablets):
       For treating cancer of the breast:

         o Adults and teenagers  40 milligrams (mg) four times a
         day for two or more months.

       For treating cancer of the uterus:

         o Adults and teenagers  10 to 80 mg four times a day for
         two or more months.

For norethindrone (base)
   o For oral dosage form (tablets):
       For starting the menstrual cycle (amenorrhea) or
      controlling unusual and heavy bleeding of the uterus
      (dysfunctional uterine bleeding):

         o Adults or teenagers  5 to 20 milligrams (mg) a day from
         Day 5 through Day 25 (counting from the first day of the
         last menstrual cycle).

       For treating endometriosis:

         o Adults or teenagers  At first, 10 mg a day for two
         weeks. Then, your doctor may increase your dose slowly to
         30 mg a day for six to nine months. Let your doctor know if
         your menstrual period starts. Your doctor may want you to
         stop taking the medicine for a short period of time.

       For preventing pregnancy:

         o Adults or teenagers  0.35 mg every day without
         interruption beginning on Day 1 of your menstrual cycle.

For norethindrone acetate
   o For oral dosage form (tablets):
       For starting the menstrual cycle (amenorrhea) or
      controlling unusual and heavy bleeding of the uterus
      (dysfunctional uterine bleeding):

         o Adults or teenagers  2.5 to 10 milligrams (mg) a day
         from Day 5 through Day 25 (counting from the first day of
         the last menstrual cycle).

       For treating endometriosis:

         o Adults or teenagers  At first, 5 mg a day for two
         weeks. Then, your doctor may increase your dose slowly to
         15 mg a day for six to nine months. Let your doctor know if
         your menstrual period starts. Your doctor may want you to
         stop taking the medicine for a short period of time.

For norgestrel
       For preventing pregnancy:

         o Adults or teenagers  75 micrograms (mcg) every day
         without interruption beginning on Day 1 of your menstrual
         cycle.

For progesterone
   o For injection dosage form:

       For starting the menstrual cycle (amenorrhea) or
      controlling unusual and heavy bleeding of the uterus
      (dysfunctional uterine bleeding):

         o Adults or teenagers  50 to 100 milligrams ;opmg;cp
         injected into a muscle as a single dose. Or, your doctor
         may want you to receive 5 to 10 mg injected into a muscle a
         day for six to eight days. Your doctor may want you to take
         another hormone called estrogen first. If your menstrual
         period starts, your doctor will want you to stop taking the
         medicine.

       For maintaining a pregnancy (at ovulation and at the
      beginning of pregnancy)

         o Adults or teenagers  12.5 mg injected into a muscle a
         day at the time of ovulation for up to two weeks. If
         needed, your doctor may want you to receive the medicine
         for up to eleven weeks.

   o For suppositories dosage form (rectal or vaginal):

       For maintaining a pregnancy (at ovulation and at the
      beginning of pregnancy):

         o Adults or teenagers  25 mg (one suppository) inserted
         into the rectum or the vagina two times a day at the time
         of ovulation for up to two weeks. If needed, your doctor
         may want you to receive the medicine for up to eleven
         weeks.

MISSED DOSE  If you miss a dose of this medicine:

   o If you are not taking this medicine for birth control, take
     the missed dose as soon as possible. However, if it is almost
     time for your next dose, skip the missed dose and go back to
     your regular dosing schedule. Do not double doses.

   o If you are taking this medicine for birth control, the
     safest thing to do when you miss 1 day's dose is to stop taking
     the medicine immediately and use another method of birth
     control until your period begins or until your doctor
     determines that you are not pregnant. This procedure is
     different from the one used after missed doses of birth control
     tablets that contain more than one hormone.

STORAGE  To store this medicine:
   o Keep out of the reach of children.
   o Store away from heat and direct light.
   o Do not store in the bathroom medicine cabinet because the
     heat or moisture may cause the medicine to break down.
   o Keep the injectable form of this medicine from freezing.
   o Do not keep outdated medicine or medicine no longer needed.
     Be sure that any discarded medicine is out of the reach of
     children.

Precautions While Using This Medicine 
------------------------------------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

It is very important that your doctor check your progress at regular visits.
This will allow your dosage to be adjusted to your changing needs, and will
allow any unwanted effects to be detected. These visits will usually be every 6
to 12 months, but some doctors require them more often.

Check with your doctor right away:

   o if vaginal bleeding continues for an unusually long time.

   o if your menstrual period has not started within 45 days of
     your last period.

   o if you suspect that you may have become pregnant. You should
     stop taking this medicine immediately, since there have been
     some reports that these medications may cause harmful effects
     on the fetus when used during pregnancy. However, progesterone
     is sometimes used during early pregnancy to treat a certain
     type of infertility.

If you are scheduled for any laboratory tests, tell your doctor that you are
taking a progestin.

In some patients, tenderness, swelling, or bleeding of the gums may occur.
Brushing and flossing your teeth carefully and regularly and massaging your gums
may help prevent this. See your dentist regularly to have your teeth cleaned.
Check with your medical doctor or dentist if you have any questions about how to
take care of your teeth and gums, or if you notice any tenderness, swelling, or
bleeding of your gums.

If you are taking this medicine for birth control:

   o When you begin to use birth control tablets, your body will
     require time to adjust before pregnancy will be prevented;
     therefore, you should use a second method of birth control
     for at least the first 3 weeks to ensure full protection.

   o Since one of the most important factors in the proper use of
     birth control tablets is taking every dose exactly on schedule,
     you should make sure you never run out of tablets. Therefore,
     always keep 1 extra month's supply of tablets on hand. To keep
     the extra month's supply from becoming too old, use it next,
     after the pills now being used, and replace the extra supply
     each month on a regular schedule. The tablets will keep well
     when kept dry and at room temperature (light will fade some
     tablet colors but will not change the tablets' effect).

   o Keep the tablets in the container in which you received them.
     Most containers aid you in keeping track of dosage schedule.

   o Your doctor has prescribed this medicine only for you after
     studying your health record and the results of your physical
     examination. Use of the tablets by other persons may be
     dangerous because of differences in health and body make-up.
     Therefore, do not give your birth control tablets to anyone
     else, and do not take tablets prescribed for someone else.
     Also, check with your doctor before taking any leftover birth
     control tablets from an old prescription, especially after a
     pregnancy. This medicine may be dangerous if your health has
     changed since your last physical examination.

Side Effects of This Medicine 
----------------------------- 

Progestins (Systemic)

Along with their needed effects, progestins sometimes cause some unwanted
effects such as blood clots, heart attacks, and strokes, and problems of the
liver and eyes. Although these effects are rare, they can be very serious and
may cause death.

The following side effects may be caused by blood clots. Although not all of
these side effects may occur, if they do occur they need immediate medical
attention. Get emergency help immediately if any of the following side effects
occur:

   Headache (severe or sudden); loss of coordination (sudden); loss
      of vision or change in vision (sudden); pains in chest, groin,
      or leg (especially in calf of leg); shortness of breath
      (sudden); slurred speech (sudden); weakness, numbness, or pain
      in arm or leg

Also, check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side
effects occur:

   More common
      Changes in vaginal bleeding (spotting, breakthrough bleeding,
         prolonged or complete stoppage of bleeding)

   Less common or rare
      Bulging eyes; discharge from breasts; double vision; loss of
         vision (gradual, partial, or complete); mental depression;
         pains in stomach, side, or abdomen; skin rash or itching;
         yellow eyes or skin

Other side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These
side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine.
However, check with your doctor if any of the following side effects continue or
are bothersome:

   More common
      Changes in appetite; changes in weight; pain or irritation at
         injection site (with progesterone); swelling of ankles and
         feet; unusual tiredness or weakness

   Less common or rare
      Acne; brown, blotchy spots on exposed skin; fever; increased
         body and facial hair; increased breast tenderness; nausea;
         some loss of scalp hair; trouble in sleeping

Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you
notice any other effects, check with your doctor.

     > We even speculated if the personality of the person we were making 
     > might be affected by the mood during the act.

You wild-and-crazy hippy-style dreamer, you.  That's intended as a compliment.

DougO

    
    
    
    Check if you need birth control. It seems that infertility is more
    common these days (or more commonly admitted to ). I only found out
    that I was azoospermic  18 months ago. I wish I'd known 9 years ago,
    it would have saved my wife and I an awfull lot of pfaffing about
    with horrible bits of rubber and cream (as opposed to nice bits of rubber
    and cream !). Of course not needing birth control presents a whole new 
    set of problems, but that's a different story.
    
    
    
    Conrad
    

    
    	There's always celibacy.
    

    or 69s

    
    {thud}

    
    {swoon}
    
    

    {blush}

    Grunt

 belch

fart

RE .76

Glen, you can't get pregnant with what you do, so no need to take that
birth control precaution afterwards.

/john

    
    8^o

| <<< Note 609.77 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>

| Glen, you can't get pregnant with what you do, so no need to take that
| birth control precaution afterwards.

	But farting is fun. 

    
    
    	re: -1
    
    	<gasp> I can't believe you're that much older than I am! 
    
    

    
    	Oh, he's an old bugger, all right.
    

| <<< Note 609.80 by SUBPAC::SADIN "Freedom isn't free." >>>


| <gasp> I can't believe you're that much older than I am!

	Are you saying it is because I look so young...or that I act that
young? Both??? ;-)

    
    	errr....I plead the fifth...:*)

<---no Jim, you must state it!

    or drink it...

    
    	{grimmace}

	Take the grimmace off your face, Jim. You can just state it.

    
    
    	{squirm}
    
    

    
    	Grimmace on the face, or Hamburglar on the face.
    
    	Wonder which is the lesser of 2 evils?
    

	Jim.... I'm beginning to get testy.....

    
    	You mean testes.
    
    	[And I KNOW you won't thank me for that one.]
    

    
    
    	hehehe...:)
    
    

	To think that a man who has enough fire power to kill me dead on the
very spot I am standing, is afraid to tell me what he thinks. Hmmmmm......

    
    
    	I forgot what the question was. :)
    
    

the question is in .80

    
    	Ok, the answer is.....both...:)
    
    

	Chicken.....

    
    
    	Turkey...:)
    
    

	I guess it's a lite lunch......

	Try to birth control a snarf!

    RTw  04/02 0547  New male contraceptive as good as pill - doctors

    By Paul Majendie

    LONDON, April 2 (Reuter) - A contraceptive injection for men has proved
    to be as effective as birth control pills for women, scientists said on
    Tuesday after worldwide trials.

    The new contraceptive, a weekly injection tested on 400 men, was hailed
    as a major breakthrough. Doctors are now working on a daily pill
    version that could be taken in combination with less frequent
    injections.

    "It is very significant. It is really for the first time showing the
    world that permanent contraception for men really works," said Dr Fred
    Wu of Manchester University in central England, one of 15 international
    centres to test it.

    The contraceptive secretes the male hormone testosterone into the body
    to reduce the sperm count to negligible levels.

    The World Health Organisation said the new method was as effective as
    the female pill in preventing pregnancy. Side-effects are minimal and
    Wu said it worked better than a condom.

    Initial tests showed the sperm counts in 60 percent of men could be
    reduced to zero by weekly testosterone injections. Later trials showed
    it could be effective in a further 38.6 percent of men.

    "The importance of a new male contraceptive which is reversible is to
    increase the options for men so that they can play a more active role
    in family planning," Wu said.

    Asked if the researchers were effectively removing a barrier to
    disease, Wu told BBC Radio: "What we are trying to do is to provide
    couples in stable relationships with a form of contraception which does
    not interfere with the sexual act."

    The contraceptive was initially administered by a weekly injection into
    the buttocks.

    "We are now well on the way to testing more practical formulations
    which can achieve the same target," Wu said.

    "For example we are using a daily pill which is combined with
    long-acting injections three or four times a year as well as skin
    patches and implants," he added.

    But he warned against undue optimism, saying it could take up to eight
    years before a better technique of administering the drug is perfected.

    "It now depends on whether the drug companies think they can produce it
    profitably in the long term," Wu said.

    REUTER
    

    Bring on the baldness!

    as if I need more testosterone.  Eeeesh.
    
    I've got a bad feeling about this.

    {snip snip}

    Ya know...Kodos was bald too.

    >SAO PAULO (Aug 17, 1996 11:53 p.m. EDT) - A Brazilian pharmaceutical
    >company will make the world's first birth-control pill for men starting
    >next June, an official from the company making the product said Saturday.
    
    Can't wait to see how enthusiastically the pro-life among us    
    support the introduction of this pill in the US.
    

    <--- Cool!
    
    

    If the pill is not harmful, then I find this to be of great benefit.  
    
    Funny how Misseur Goodwin always has to make the abortion topic a
    religious issue, (no pun intended!).

    
    	RE: -1
    
    	[snort!!]
    

    > Funny how Misseur Goodwin always has to make the abortion topic a
    >religious issue, (no pun intended!).
    
    I'm not the one who made it that way, the RR did it just fine long
    before I came along.  I'm just waiting to see their reaction to the
    introduction of this new pill.  They didn't like RU486 much, and I
    don't think they'll like this one either.  The complaint will probably
    be something like, "It'll just encourage people to act irresponsibly
    and have sex because it feels good instead of for the purpose of
    producing a child."
    
    Then again, that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong...  :-)

     Z   They didn't like RU486 much, and I
     Z   don't think they'll like this one either.  The complaint will probably
     Z   be something like, "It'll just encourage people to act irresponsibly
     Z   and have sex because it feels good instead of for the purpose of
     Z   producing a child."
    
    RU486 was not a birth control pill.  It was an abortion pill that
    didn't preclude a trip to the local abortuary.  Kind of left a disgust
    in my mind when a lady is holding her tummy on the way in the local
    clinic only to have a fetus drop out her pant leg.  What a barbaric
    society we've become.
    
    -Jack

    Uhh, 'scuse me, but am I the only one who doesn't trust a male birth
    control pill?
    
    q:  How does one know whether their gentleman friend has really taken
    his pill(s) (and for that matter, whether same gentleman friend is
    being monogamous)?
    
    q: Who pays the worst for failure of the birth control method: Man or
    woman?
    
    Seems like birth control always ends up the woman's responsibility
    largely because she has the highest price to pay.

    -1 So true.  I'd shove it down his throat myself.

    
    About q1, you can say the same for the female BC pill.
    
    About q2, the woman.
    
    However, I think it is nice that now there's the possibility that more
    men might take responsibility for their sperm rather than letting it
    fly with fertile impunity.
    
     

    .112
    
    brut aren't ya? :-)
    
    Quite frankly, the only case in which birth control should even be an
    issue is with your lifelong partner...
    
    If you are screwing around without even trying to practice [somewhat
    safer] safe sex via a condom, you is stupid.

    Yes, you is.

    Oh yes, I certainly applaud the notion that they're actually making new
    options that don't always come down to a woman's responsibility.  It's
    just the issue of trust in the real world that I can't ever get around.
    
    (Then again, I just have problems with trust in general, so ...)
    

    <--- How does one know whether or not their gentlewoman friend has
    really taken her pill(s) (and for that matter, whether same gentlewoman
    friend is being monogamous)?

    Men haven't really had an alternative like women have other than
    sterilization. There hasn't been a pill and there are no handy little
    devices to insert.

    Ugh. I hate being interrupted in the middle of writing a note.

    >no handy little devices to insert?
    
    Not since hatpins became passe, anyways.  I imagine that would dampen
    your ardour.

| <<< Note 609.112 by SCASS1::BARBER_A "all of which are American dreams" >>>

| -1 So true.  I'd shove it down his throat myself.

	Then they wouldn't go out at night!

    I really am humored at the notion of men having handy little devices to
    insert.  Heck, it'd be fun to watch, if nothing else!

| <<< Note 609.117 by POLAR::RICHARDSON "So far away from me" >>>


| and there are no handy little devices to insert.

	I heard that there is a device that you insert into a man's penis, and
the part on the outside fits the contour of the tip. Then you turn it
counterclockwise, and the part that is inside has two little armatures that
expand. This holds it secure. Then you go to town on <insert partner>. I
believe they call it the Drain Stop. Ronco puts it out, I think.

    And then what happens?

    
    <nails fingers to desk>
    

	Ever open a beer after it was shaken? Same thing. 

    
    You have to wipe the counter?
    

    Sex in the kitchen?

    
    On the kitchen counter?
    
    8^o
    

    "I'm getting a little behind with dinner...."

| <<< Note 609.129 by SMURF::WALTERS >>>

| "I'm getting a little behind with dinner...."

	Who's the lucky lady?

| <<< Note 609.126 by POWDML::HANGGELI "sweet & juicy on the inside" >>>

| You have to wipe the counter?

	If that is the direction you're facing, yes

    Well, that sounds painful somehow.

    I think it is great for men to have another option in contraception,
    expecially if this is enzyme based, instead of hormonal.  Yes I would
    continue using my own contraception as well, as this pill isn't 100%
    anymore than any other contraceptive method.  My only concern with this
    is it will probably cut down on condom use, thereby increasing the
    incidences of std's among those who aren't monogamous.
    
    meg
    

    
    	RE: .122
    
    	Is the device contoured for HER pleasure?
    

| <<< Note 609.134 by BUSY::SLAB "ch-ch-ch-ch-ha-ha-ha-ha" >>>

| Is the device contoured for HER pleasure?

	It contours to the tip. If the tip doesn't satisfy her, then this won't
enhance it.

    
      My prediction would be that a male birth control pill would be
     a commercial success in the USA, and would not be politically
     contraversial.  Yes, the His Holiness Pope John Paul II would
     be against, but most of the pro-life group has no objection
     to birth control BEFORE conception.  So far as I know, no Jewish
     or Protestant pro-life group sees contraception as a sin.
    
      However, be careful.  Are there side effects ?  The female pill
     can cause medical problems in quite a few women.  How much testing
     have the Brazilians really done ?  What if it causes impotence or
     depression or prostate problems...
    
      bb

	Funny..... many men never worried about the side effects for women, so
I would think women would do the same for those same men. :-)

    >but most of the pro-life group has no objection
    >to birth control BEFORE conception.
    
    ...as long as they can't get birth control in school?
    

    and as long as they aren't taught that such things exist?