Conference back40::soapbox

    Hooters should not be required to hire male hooter's girls.  Playboy
    (when it was still in operation), was not required to hire male
    bunny waitresses (or whateve they were called).
    
    Bob

    
    	Yes, they are.
    
    	Hooters is basically in the entertainment industry, which for
    	some reason seems to be exempt from suggested hiring quotas
    	[I don't think any white people ever sued Cosby for not hiring
    	them for his show, for example].
    
    	I think the men should get together and start their own club
    	and call it Dongs or something like that, and they can refuse
    	to hire women.
    

    I don't get it really. 
    
    You can run a topless waitress bar, but you can't run a Hooters bar.

    
      I've never been to Hooters.  Where is the nearest one ?
    
      bb

    
    schaumburg, IL  bill, at least for me.

    
    There is?  Where?  Must be on Golf Road, eh?
    

    
    For the record, SLABOUNTY, there were often white people on the Cosby
    show.  
    
    And men should NOT be hired to work as waiters at Hooters.  How can you
    work at Hooters if you don't have 'em?
    
    Amanda
    

    	Chris Farley (SNL actor) has them.  Maybe he'd make a good
    	Hooters waitron.

Hooters - Norfolk, Virginia. Been there. Good food, friendly folks.
Brought back a menu. Put it up in my office here. 

Was visited by someone (male) who suggested that I put it away. I asked
why?  "Because of what it represents." I took the menu in hand, said,
"Look, it has food and prices... that's what it represents." I put it
back up.

A couple of weeks later it disappeared.

Get a life.

Art

Just in case you wanted to know where you can find Hooters Restos:

AL AZ CA CO CT DE FL GA IA IL IN KS KY LA MD MI MN NC ND NE NM NV NY OH RI
SC TN TX VA WI

(From the NYNEX Interactive Yellow Pages, http://www.niyp.com/)

/john

Hooters creating a stink for concerned Tempe residents

By Julie Gerleman

guest commentary
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

At a public hearing held on February 16, 1995, the Tempe Town Council voted
6-1 to deny a liquor license to a not-yet-built Hooters Restaurant in
downtown Tempe. Many of the 100 concerned citizens who showed up at this
hearing to voice their protest against Hooters considered it a victory, but
alas, this vote will only be used as a recommendation when this case goes in
front of the State Liquor Licensing Board.

The fight may not be over, but the message is clear: Hooters is not welcome
in Tempe. It is my intention to explain two (of the many and complex)
reasons why I wholeheartedly agree with this.

If any of you are not familiar with this bizarre and somehow culturally
accepted abomination of a restaurant, it was described by an employee during
a phone interview as a "family restaurant, where children are allowed at all
times." But don't think for a minute that its name actually refers to the
cute and fuzzy owl mascot that graces their logo.

During this hearing, when asked if Hooters, in fact, discriminates against
men by not hiring male wait staff, the franchise owner of Hooter's stated
that Hooters does not hire wait-staff, they hire "Hooters' girls." Hooter's
lawyer, H.J. Lewkowitz, went on to state that Hooters' girls aren't actually
waitresses, they are "entertainment." (Never mind that Hooters itself does
not have an entertainment license.) Hooters is a huge money-making
restaurant chain that entertains the whole family with women who wear very
cropped tops and very short shorts which are rumored to be all one size, no
exceptions.

One reason I do not want Hooters in my neighborhood is because the essence
of this establishment basically perpetuates the idea that people are simply
parts (more specifically, women are their "Hooters",) and those parts are
simply a commodity that can be exploited so burgers and beer can be sold and
money can be made.

I do not consider my viewpoint a feminist reaction, rather, I consider it
humanistic concern. When any group of people are not viewed as whole persons
and respect for the same is not fostered, everyone suffers for it.

That's America, you may say. Freedom for businesses to prosper. Let me be
clear: I am not against business or people making a profit, but I will not
support businesses that perpetuate this kind of objectification and
disrespect. And most certainly I will fight it as it attempts to move into
my own neighborhood. That is my right and my freedom.

Another reason I do not want Hooters in my neighborhood, albeit personal and
subjective, is that Hooters does not "fit" there. Downtown Tempe is not a
red-light district. I feel safe on Mill Avenue. The presence of a Hooters
would change that.

I have had the misfortune of living near an avenue of strip joints. I never
felt safe walking in that particular neighborhood because many of the men
meandering about had just seen "Shee-laaahh", wildest pantheress of the
jungle, slide on a pole and weren't in a kindhearted frame of mind.

Now strip joints and Hooters aren't exactly the same, the difference is
about 0.4 yards of cheap fabric, and Hooter's has no poles. And children
aren't allowed in strip joints However, the objectification is identical and
I don't want it around.

I fear that my explanations, limited by space, do not do justice to the
whole issue at hand; a strange and cancerous sickness of which
establishments like Hooters is only a mere symptom.

If you don't want the integrity of Downtown Tempe marred by Hooters, please
let your voice be heard at the State Liquor License Board at the Arizona
State capital on Thursday, April 6 at 1:30 PM.

They seem to be all over the WWWeb.

Entering "hooters restaurant" into AltaVista returns 3846 matching entries
such as:

http://www.florida.net:80/hooters/

and

http://prod1.satelnet.org:80/destiny/hooters/hoothome.htm
where you'll find:
  amy, angelisa, bgholly2, bigamy, bigangel, bigchris, bigholly, bigjenni,
  bigrebec, bigsomal, bigsuzan, bigvicki, christy, girlicon, holly1, holly2,
  jennifer, rebecca, somaly, suzanne, and vicki.

and

http://www.li.net:80/~dsquid/hooters/hooters.html
where you can find out about opening your own franchise.

/john

    
    re: .6
    
    Yes deb, right on Golf Rd. They have only been open for two weeks or
    so, but the place is always jammed. When I was there for opening
    week, I only saw 1 or 2 female customers. Average food, but overpriced.

        Is it OK to say that I wish to cleave to the nearest hooters?
        

    
    
    Keep us abreast of the situation, DrDan.
    
    

    ^Many of the 100 concerned citizens who showed up at this
    ^hearing to voice their protest against Hooters...........
    
    ^The fight may not be over, but the message is clear: Hooters is not
    ^welcome in Tempe.
    
    I think it strange that the conclusion can be drawn, that Hooters is not
    welcome, from the presence of only 100 people. What ever happened to
    free enterprise. If Hooters wasn't welcome, it would go out of
    business. If these 100 people don't like Hooters, then don't patronize 
    Hooters! 
    
    This topic should be moved to the "I Hate Do-Gooders" topic.

    
      Anybody know the RI or CT locations ?  I go to both regularly,
     but perhaps not near them.  I'd go once - the curiosity factor.
    
      bb

    
    	Yeah, yeah, and you read "Playboy" for the thought-provoking
    	articles.
    
    	We know.
    

    to avoid the obvious (subtle at best) sexist image, an owl is the
    mascot/image or whatever at Hooters.
    
    if we're voting, imo men ought to stay out of it, just like they
    shoudn't be prom queens.
    

    
    
    	I think the one in RI is in Warwick  (they had a couple of
    	the Hooter waitressed on Kiss 108 this morning)
    

        I've been to the Roswell, GA Hooters a couple of times - just a
        fairly average sports bar sort of place, average bar food , fair
        selection of beers. Now to the "Hooter's Girls". Friendly and
        outgoing with none of the 'sleaze' factor (aka 'squeeze the
        punter's wallet') associated with strip joints et al. The shorts
        are no more revealing than anything seen on TV and the tops are
        midriff-level, scoop neckline with moderate cleavage showing.
        
        No biggie all round, IMO - pretty harmless.
        
        &y
        

    
    But &y, you're a bloody perv......

        Why, thank you Mike - you're only saying that because it's true!
        
        

Went to one in Loooosiana a few years back.
Decent sports bar/restaurant, the "Hooters Girls" weren't anything you
wouldn't see outdoors on a summer day. "Pretty harmless" works for me.

    
    
    
    .25 an exact description I would say.
    
    .0 This is a "no-brainer".
    
    

    Hooters should not have to hire male waiters.
    Companies should not have quotas based on sex/race.
    The Federal Government needs to get out of my wallet.
    The IRS should be panned.
    The Federal Government should not be in the subsidy business (of any
        kind).
    
    
    There, that should about cover it.

       <<< Note 585.22 by SPEZKO::FRASER "Mobius Loop; see other side" >>>

>        The shorts
>        are no more revealing than anything seen on TV 
    
    	That argument is more of an indictment than a defense to
    	some of us who see TV as trash too.

    
    In PC-land, the restaurant will be required to hire those who
    are "hooter-impaired".
    
    -b

    ....and be given externally worn, non-invasive, hooter enhancement
    devices.  Either that or a box of kleenex.  

If a "Hooters girl" had a mastectomy, would she be fired?  I think that would
make an excellent EEOC complaint.

    	re .11
    
    	I can agree with her opinion of Hooters.
    
    	It's not a family restaurant except for the fact that they 
    	call themselves so.  It is not a positive family setting to
    	have the kiddies watching daddy ogle the waitress' body.
    
    	Hooters is nothing more than a baps 'n beer bar.  That they
    	do not want to hire male waiters confirms that they see
    	themselves this way.  I give them credit for managing to
    	disguise their purpose by packaging themselves as a family
    	restaurant.
    
    	Still, they are entitled to limit the description of who
    	can serve drinks and food at their restaurants.  I wonder
    	if the govt will next be approaching the establishments that
    	have topless or nude entertainment and sue them to hire
    	entertainers of both genders.

    re: Joe in .32
    
    You don't know my wife, but she ain't a dunce.  You hear me talk
    about how my in-laws think I'm freekin' crazy....
    
    My wife took her parents and our 3 year old to Hooters for lunch.
    
    Hooters is a family place.  As with any place, once the sun starts 
    setting it takes on a more rowdy atmosphere  (and people like me 
    start showing up).
    
    MadMike

    
      Hootectomy would be partially disqualifying.
    
      bb

    >> In PC-land, the restaurant will be required to hire those who
    >> are "hooter-impaired".
    
    Maybe they can hire some eunuchs.  Then they can call themselves
    "Hooters & Nooters".
    
    Chris

    
    
    
    I will attest to that.  Mike's wife is a very attractive and charming
    lady.  I found that out while he was still crapped out on the couch in
    his basement and we were having coffee and talking.  How she ever ended
    up with Sad Sack, well, I just don't have any idea. ;')
    
    
    
    Mike

    I'm just waiting for a judge to determine that men, by virtue of their
    lack of the requisite equipment, aren't qualified to be Hooters Girls. 
    Which will immediately be followed, no doubt, by a discrimination suit
    filed on behalf of an owl.

    
    
    
    What about those who need the manzierre?

 You mean "broh" don't you?

    RE: .35 BWHAHAHA
    
    RE: Joe and 
    
    >It's not a family restaurant except for the fact that they
    >call themselves so.  It is not a positive family setting to
    >have the kiddies watching daddy ogle the waitress' body.
    
    This is not the fault of the resto.  Because Dad'd behavior is less
    than becoming in front of his family does not make the establishment
    less respectable.  This would also suggest that families should stay
    away from beaches where there are apt to plenty of scantily clad folk
    to ogle.  
            

    
    
    RE: .39  Right you are.....

    re: Tubby,
    
    } Mike's wife is a very attractive and charming  lady.
    
    Damn right.  She enjoyed the flowers btw... thanx.
    
    } I found that out while he was still crapped out on the couch
    
    My first reaction to this was =8*O  but then I remebered you happened
    to wake up first and were sitting at the table eating breakfast.
    MadMike was up all night watching sports and listening to you SNORE and
    missed out on my beauty sleep.
                 

    
    
    
    And what time did you crap out at my bro's house??????? 10 o'clock I
    believe it was?  We had a good laugh at your expense, talk about
    snoring........good god!
    
    
    Mike

    I have been to the Hooters in Fort Myers, the food was good (great
    buffalo wings, the best I have ever had at any resturant), fun music
    and the Hooter gals wear no different then what you would see on a
    summers day or at the beach. I seen all ages and majority of the people
    were just having normal conversations with who ever they were with, I
    did not see any major oggling of one waitress or the other. Everyone
    just minded their own buisiness. I also seen quite a few elderly in
    there.
    
    Lynne

    Let's face it, Hooters has Hooters Girls to attract men to the
    restaurant. These men like the sights and the subdued atmosphere is
    conducive to family dining. If people don't want to look at women's
    Cleavage (personally I like it, being the alive heterosexual male that I 
    am) then they should take their business to The Village Inn and stop
    trying to keep those who like all boobs great and small, from enjoying
    themselves. 

    
    .33>                -< You ever been to one? >-
    
	Yes, MadMike, but only passing through (it's at one of the 
    	entrances to our local mall.)  Usually at night.
    
    
    	re: "it's just like the beach"
    
    	Last time I was at the beach I don't recall having Hooters
    	girls leaning over my table to serve me drinks, dinner and
    	dessert.  Since I live in Colorado and rarely get to the
    	beach anymore, maybe things have changed from my beach-going
    	memories.
    
          <<< Note 585.45 by DASHER::RALSTON "screwiti'mgoinhome.." >>>

>    Let's face it, Hooters has Hooters Girls to attract men to the
>    restaurant. 
    
    	Exactly.
    
>    If people don't want to look at women's
>    Cleavage (personally I like it, being the alive heterosexual male that I 
>    am) then they should take their business to The Village Inn and stop
>    trying to keep those who like all boobs great and small, from enjoying
>    themselves. 
    
    	Let's clear up a few things.  Nowhere have I suggested that
    	Hooters should shut down.  I merely aired my opinions about
    	the appropriateness of this being a family dining establishment.
    	Likewise I commented that they should be allowed to continue
    	hiring only women.
    
    	And a man's personal preferrence for restaurants like the 
    	Village Inn over Hooters should make no implications regarding 
    	the vitality of his heterosexuality just as a man's preferrence
    	in the reverse should make no implications that the sexual spark
    	in his marriage needs jump starting from external sources.  :^)

    With all the things government SHOULD be worrying about........
    
    Next thing you know, the Rockettes will have to hire men &
    Chippendale dancers will have to hire women.  Hmmmm, should be
    interesting to see a woman in a Chippendale outfit; black slacks
    and nothing on top except a bow tie ;-}
    
    Local station was interviewing Hooters girls at Roswell location
    &ndy and MadMike mentioned; girls indicated on a good night they
    make between $150/$175 in tips!!!  Patrons interviewed frankly
    admitted they were there because of the waitresses and would probably
    go elsewhere if Hooters is forced to hire waitors.
    
    

    RE: .46
    
    Joe, we agree almost 100%!!!!
    
    I say almost because the parents, father or mother, should decide for
    themselves what is considered family oriented. 

    	That's correct, Steve.  Parents should decide.
    
    	That doesn't mean that I (or you) have to remain silent about
    	what I (or you) believe to be the better decision in such
    	matters.

    It wasn't Steve, Joe, it was me, Tom.
    
    

    	I keep doing that, Steve, er, Tom.  Sorry.
    
    	There used to be a guy in our group namede Steve Ralston.
    
    	I even picture him as the person at the other end of the
    	conversation when I read your entries or reply to you.
    
    	Steve Ralston was a great human being.  Probably still
    	is, though I haven't heard from him in years.  He was
    	big-time into the Society For Creative Anachronism, and
    	was the standard by which everyone compared themselves
    	for games of strategy, especially chess.

    If Hooters gets into too much trouble with the Feds, then to dodge
    the System they can always change their name, so as to honor one of
    1950's television childhood icons, to Beverage Cleavage.
    
    Chris

      <<< TURRIS::DISK$NOTES_PACK2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]WOMANNOTES-V5.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -< Topics of Interest to Women >-
================================================================================
Note 475.349      Discussion of "In the News" Items (Topic 37)        349 of 349
COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert"                      17 lines  18-NOV-1995 00:41
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sly?

Are they sly?  I don't know, 'cuz we ain't got none here, so I haven't
seen any slyness.

All I've seen are WWWeb advertisements, and I see them using an owl logo
to advertise Hooters.

I also see them advertising the fact that their wait staff is composed
of physically attractive women.

I haven't seen them writing coy denials of their obviously deliberate use
of a popular slang word for large breasts.

Can you post one of these denials?  It would be a hoot!

/john

    This pc crud can be Sooo confusing. I remember a case were a woman
    refused to wear a pair of hot pants to be a waiteress. Sued the hot
    pants off the owners. Now someone can actually get away serving food in
    a family restrant like this? And they refused to hire men? Sexisim is
    still alive. Funny, how the shoes never fit on the other feet when
    something like this goes down.
    
    

    where
    waitress
    restaurant
    sexism
    
    

    
    where  waitress  restaurant  sexism...... what???
    

    
      buy a verb
    
      bb

    
    I was just trying to help people decipher George's note, being the sort
    of person who puts everyone else's needs before her own 8^).
    

    
    
    re: .58
    
    yes, but... your .55 definitely had a thread....
    
    Please continue....
    
    :) :)
    

    
    	Sounds like "Password" clues with the answer being "Hooters".
    
    	8^)
    

>>         <<< Note 585.54 by MKOTS3::RAUH "I survived the Cruel Spa" >>>
	
>    And they refused to hire men? Sexisim is
>    still alive. Funny, how the shoes never fit on the other feet when
>    something like this goes down.
    
    Whose feet are you trying to fit them on? 
    

    If Hooters were to go belly-up because the government forces them to
    change their highly successful marketing approach, then 10,500 women
    will lose their jobs.

But if they're such good waitrons, I'm sure other restaurants will be happy
to hire them.  With Hooters out of business, those other restaurants will
need to hire more help.

    
      hooters belly up ?
    
      bb

    re:.63
    
    That isn't the point. The point is that government regulations only
    weaken the economy by causing business failures and loss of jobs.
    Father Fed and those who work for him are the destroyers of what is
    good, to benefit only themselves at the expence of those who produce
    and are of value to the society.

re .65:

Gee whiz!  Then let's bring back child labor.

 .66 are you trying to induce child labor?

> let's bring back child labor.

Too late. My kids don't live at home anymore.

    
    
    There just has.... HAS TO BE a slur in this Hooters thing someplace!!!
    
    I'll find it and be offended if it takes the rest of my life (or 5:00
    p.m. today.... whichever comes first)!!!
    

    .69
    
    Well, Andy, would you appreciate the opening of a restaurant called
    Grunnies that featured a staff of attractive males dressed in speedos?

  .69  maybe you can get George to help you.  he seems to think he's
       on to something already.  unless i'm not decoding his note 
       correctly, which wouldn't exactly startle me either.

    
    	Actually, I wouldn't mind it at all.
    
    	Did you ever see "Married With Children" when Bud used to hang
    	out at the local male strip joint, waiting for all the horny
    	women to come out after the show was over?  8^)
    

Grunnies?

Of course, I'm one of those benighted few who never heard of the term "hooters"
before this brouhaha started a couple of years ago.

    
    	I was introduced to the word "baps" courtesy of this conference,
    	I believe.  That was a new one for me.
    

Shawn, remember to bring that up when the powers that be try to shut down
employee-interest noting next time.  "If it weren't for SOAPBOX, I wouldn't
know what baps are, Mr. Palmer."

    
    
    Hey, it reinforces the multiculturalism/diversity theme.
    

    
    	I'll make a note of that.
    

    It's certainly better than using that tinny word.

    
    re: .70
    
    Dick,
    
    >Well, Andy, would you appreciate the opening of a restaurant called
    >Grunnies that featured a staff of attractive males dressed in speedos?
    
    If they don't slur their words, they can speed around all day long if
    they want...  Won't catch me in there... Sharon can frequent a place
    like that all she wants... I'll go to Hooters in pursuit of that ever
    elusive slur!!
    

    .62 Too bad. There are men who have lost their jobs in similar
    problems. 

    
    <-- professional victimhood doesn't become anyone, George.
    
    

    re. 63
    
    You must be a Democrat.  For only a Democrat would say that it is o.k.
    to destroy jobs.  Your economic analysis is totally idiotic.   10,500
    people without a paycheck is 10,500 people who are probably not dining
    out, requiring fewer waiters and waitresses.
    
    Your faulty economic analysis implies that anytime a company goes out
    of business, the competition will pick up the employees.  Only a
    Democrat.

You're assuming that Hooters girls dine out at Hooters (I suspect they get
free meals).  If Hooters goes out of business, _their_ customers will have
to go to other restaurants.

I'm an independent.  I votes 'em as I sees 'em.

    Your economic analysis still sucks big time.
    

Mimsy, your chain has been yanked.

    
    Hooters n Hangers

    
    
    So round, So firm, So fully packed, So perfectly topped!!
    
    Not too big, not too small, well porportioned and complete
    
    with full round firm unblemished buns. A sight any man would enjoy
    
    
    Gawd........I love a perfect cheese burger.

    I can't believe it.  Tom Teepen, the most liberal columnist in the
    world, who writes for the Atlanta Constitution, came out an attacked
    the EEOC for their "idiotic" policy on Hooters.  When the most liberal
    of the liberals comes out with that kind of statement, then their must
    be hope.  He really blasted the EEOC in this morning's paper.  He said
    the next thing the EEOC would do is try to ban hormones.  I think that
    Hooters is going to win this one and it will be a big blow to PC and
    Pat Schroeder.

	I thought liberals liked hooters?

    	Was this mentioned in here already?  No individuals filed a
    	claim against Hooters.  EEOC did it in its own.

>    	Was this mentioned in here already?  No individuals filed a
>    	claim against Hooters.  EEOC did it in its own.

    Restaurant Chain to Reject Government Order to Hire Men

    By LAURA MYERS

    Associated Press Writer

    ...

    Marcia Greenberger, co-president of the National Women's Law Center in
    Washington, said Hooters is clearly violating anti-discrimination laws
    just as airlines did in the past when it only hired thin, beautiful
    women as stewardesses. She also objected to the company "stereotyping
    women in a way that does them no favors ... Why would someone put up
    with this?"

    "Hooters doesn't have a legal leg to stand on," Greenberger said,
**  noting the company also is being sued by several Chicago men claiming
**  discrimination. "For a restaurant chain to say the only people who can
    be hired to serve food are women is something our laws don't allow.
    This is plain old sex discrimination."

    ...

    ahhh, finally the root of the problem surfaces... Marcia Greenberger
    is a dope.

    
    >women as stewardesses. She also objected to the company "stereotyping
    >women in a way that does them no favors ... Why would someone put up
    >with this?"
    
    
    	This is the fault of Hooters??
    
    	Why isn't this directed at the "brainless waitresses" instead
    	of the restaurant?
    

    Does this mean The Rockettes will have to hire male dancers?
    
    

    And the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders.  How about the Girl Scouts?  Women
    Sports?  Private Womens Colleges?  Publicly funded toilets?  The title
    "First Lady", it can only be held by a women?  National Organization
    for Women?  And the list goes on and on?

    Nit
    
    NOW welcomes male members.
    
    Private colleges can do what they want, just don't take federal or
    state subsidies.  Those that do are already sexually integrated in
    admissions policies.  
    
    WGAS about public toilets, give everyone reasonable privacy.  
    
    When we get a woman president I might worry about what to call her
    consort, if male, until wh cares?
    
    Look for some better comparisons, or at least accurate ones.

    re. -1
    
    Hooters does not take public money, so why can't they do what they
    want?  You seem to want to apply a double standard.
    

    re: .98
    
    Because we have laws in this country that say it is illegal
    to discriminate based on gender and age, for one thing.
    
    Playboy has (or had) "clubs" not restaurants.  The law has
    historically protected gender bias in these settings, for whatever
    reason.
    
    Hiring and exploiting employees of an establishment because of their
    physical attributes is childish behavior at best.  The fact that it is 
    is popular says a lot about our culture.  If people won't eat there 
    with regular waiters, that tells me, a.) the customers need to acquire
    a life, and  b.) the food stinks.  
    
    Mary-Michael

    .99
    
    > Because we have laws in this country that say it is illegal
    > to discriminate based on gender and age, for one thing.
    
    Therefore, if I were able to waggle my butt properly, I could force the
    Dallas Cowboys to hire me.

    re .100
    
    Give me something to look at besides the tail end of quarterback
    jerseys.
    
    meg

>>    Therefore, if I were able to waggle my butt properly, I could force the
>>    Dallas Cowboys to hire me.

    are you that desperate to be a pass receiver?

    re. 99
    
    So if we have laws that make it illegal to discriminate, why can all
    female colleges get away with it?  Again, Hooters accepts no federal
    money.
    
    Your comments about laws and your disgust with american "male" culture
    imply that you think the government should pass laws that force the
    culture to be like the one you want.  That would put you in the Newt
    Gingrich/Christian Coalition camp.   Is that where you are?
    
    I think you should clearly articulate why it is o.k. for all female
    colleges to discriminate and not Hooters.  Because "it is the law" will
    not suffice for an answer.  Be very articulate.  I suspect that you are
    not of sufficient "mental power" to be able to put forth such an
    argument.  I think you are going to get mired down in your petty
    political correctness and will not be able to put forth an argument
    based on constitutional principles or the rule of law. 
    
    Here is your chance. 

    
    	The waitresses who work at Hooters are not being forced to work
    	there, they chose of their own free will.  After an hour or so
    	[if it even takes them THAT long] they are completely aware of
    	the decor of the place and can choose to terminate their emp-
    	loyment in order to find something that will exploit their minds
    	instead of their bodies.
    
    	Leave Hooters alone.  If you don't like it, eat/work somewhere
    	else.
    

    
      In fact, the waitresses (who do very well, they claim), are the
     heart of the opposition to the charge of gender discrimination.
     Regardless of what you might think of that, I cannot swallow the
     word "exploitation" in this case.  If anybody is being exploited,
     it's probably the customers....
    
      bb

    Could somebody describe to me sexism without walls?

    
    Shh!  Shh!  Don't get George started.
    
    

    Shhhhhheeeese!! 

    i understand McDonald's will not hire non-clowns. this truely is
    ourageous!

    .99
    Does this mean that I can be childish (if not all the time hows about
    some of the times)?

    i think MMS should work at Hooters for a bit so that she can back up
    this degrading, dehumanizing and exploitative establishment with fact.

    >Because we have laws in this country that say it is illegal
    >to discriminate based on gender and age, for one thing.
    
     So I guess I can sign up for the Rockettes, now, and if they refuse to
    hire me then I can get a big cash award? Cool. What a country.
    
     There is a difference between discrimination and selective hiring, and
    most people are bright enough to know the difference. Hooters has a
    shtick. You may not like it, but that's life. The mere fact that you
    don't like their shtick doesn't justify the use of government force to
    "fix" things. Nothing is broken here. No one is being harmed here.
    Government interference is inappropriate here.
    
    >Hiring and exploiting employees of an establishment because of their
    >physical attributes is childish behavior at best.  
    
     So the Rockettes should hire fat, ugly men, then? High class jewelry
    stores should hire dumpy looking employees? 
    
     There's an ice cream stand in town that hires sweet young girls to
    scoop ice cream. The place gets mobbed, and a goodly percentage of
    business is from teenage boys seeking connections with said ice cream
    scoopettes. Oh, and the fact that there are teenage boys in large
    numbers attracts still more teenage girls. Neat, huh? What I call good
    business sense, you call childish behavior. This is precisely the same
    dynamic going on at Hooters. Which is the same dynamic that goes on at
    countless other businesses. I suppose that advertising should no longer
    be using Cindy Crawford and those of her ilk, instead Hairy Harry
    Gateau and Anna Adipose oughtta be hired, eh? Guess what. Sex sells. No
    sex sells less. We are talking about human nature, pious righteous
    condemnations notwithstanding.
    
     What you are talking about is the ultra-liberal anti-looksism, which
    is so contrary to human nature that it's not funny. Good looking people
    attract other people; ugly people repel them. You are saying that
    personal appearance should never be used in making hiring decisions; I
    respectfully but forcefully disagree. The fact that one candidate has
    tattoos all over his body and another does not is a factor in hiring.
    The girl with the radical hair and grotesque, macabre makeup, nose ring
    and 47 earrings should expect to have more difficulty in obtaining
    employment due to her appearance. If you make people uncomfortable,
    business drops off. The guy with the horrible body odor may be just as
    qualified as the next guy, but there's no reason why his nasty BO
    should by statute be excluded from being considered in hiring
    decisions. Face it, every single choice involves discrimination to some
    degree. EEO laws were put in place to prevent widespread large scale
    discrimination against certain minority groups. For that purpose they
    are useful and valuable. They were not put in place so the government
    could hassle places like Hooters. Men (or attribute challenged women)
    are not at any real disadvantage in employment because they cannot get
    a job at Hooters. It's not like Hooters is the only restaurant in the
    country.

    .114 Have the Rockettes hired fat ugly women? Have Hooters hired fat
    ugly women. Guess the fat ugly women have an equal case against both
    parties as much as fat ugly men.
    
    If goverment interventions work for some, why not others? What is fair
    and just in this case if fat ugly men and women cannot apply? Why is
    sexism acceptable here and not in other places?
    

    
    	Because fat, ugly people can operate computers just as well as
    	skinny, beautiful people can.
    
    	Fat, ugly people would be hard pressed to perform Rockettes-
    	types of maneuvers that are also aesthetically pleasing to the
    	crowd.
    

    But, we are all told that these men who are filing this case against
    Hooters are fat and ugly yet has anyone seen a picture of them?
    
    

    Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly is to the bone.

    
    	George, how about getting to the [or "a"] point?
    

    George's "point" is always the same - he's like a broken record.

    Men have it bad.  Waaah!
    

    
    
    Though he may repeat himself a bit, George has a lot of valuable
    experience to offer with respect to what men go through [details left
    out as I haven't asked permission to pst any].
    
    I also have to admire George because he does far more than just
    complain. What he has done behind the scenes to help people
    is very very admirable. He deserves a lot of credit for what
    he's done and continues to do. 
    
    Broken record? Perhaps. But then some things bear repeating
    until people start listening more.
    
    							Hank

    
      re, 120 - don't scorn the afflicted, Lady Di.  When it comes to
     hooters, men don't have it bad - we don't have it at all.  I'll
     never have the qualifications for the job.
    
      bb

I guess he's not a candidate for male breast reduction.

    So we can't carve the turkey?

  .121  Hank, that may well be, but I'm just going by what I see in
	NOTES.  Men are always the underdog.  Men are always getting
	the raw end of the deal, blah, blah.  Lots of people do
	good things behind the scenes.  Terrific.  But it gets just
	as tiring reading about the trials and tribulations of the
	male of the species, especially with such predictability, as
	it does the female.

	Please note that I didn't say he was a bad person.  Thanks.

>    So we can't carve the turkey?

Not enough white meat.

    re. 117
     
    As I understand the case, the men did not file a complaint against
    Hooters, the EEOC did.  If fact, the EEOC went through all the job
    applications that Hooters had received from men over the last several
    years and added the name of any man who was denied "any" job at Hooters
    to the list of men identified in the money settlement.  If a man
    applied for a job at Hooters and did one of the following: 1.) put "any
    job" in the Type of Job Applied For field, or 2.) left this field
    blank, then they were added to the list for the money settlement.  You
    did not any have to be denied a job as a waitress to make the list. 
    What a crock of s___!
    

    re: .103
    
    Actually, the optimum solution would be for us to evolve
    to the point where this ridiculous obsession we have with
    the human form would go away, however, that appears to be
    a very long way off.  
    
    Generally, I support the rights of people to do any stupid-a**
    thing they want, including work at Hooters, if they so desire.
    Do I think that working there cheapens the image of all woman
    and works against equal rights?  Absolutely.  I think the same
    thing about strippers.  Do I think male strippers cheapen the
    image of all men?  Absolutely.  However, in order to live in
    a free country you have to expect that some people aren't going
    to be too smart with that freedom.  Do I want laws to enforce
    correct behavior?  No, not really.  It would be nice to think
    people aren't motivated by greed and would do the right thing
    on their own, but the more I see of this world, the less I 
    believe that to be the case.  Laws just provide people with the
    incentive to create devious ways to circumvent them.  Do I want
    existing laws to go away?  No, for the same reason as above.
    At least I have a few legal 2x4s to whack the particularly 
    persistent idiots over the head with.
    
    I would like to see a world in which a person who applies for work
    and needs work is evaluated based on the skills they possess for
    that job and not their gender, sexual preference, physical attributes,
    or religious preferences.  Perhaps the Rockettes should have men,
    if they can kick as high :-).  Of course, they'll have to change
    their name.  
    
    I'm not particularly in favor of gender specific colleges, either.
    If men and women have to work together in the world, why separate
    them?  I think the Citadel should have women.  I think Radcliffe
    should have men.  I think there should be Scouts, not Boy Scouts
    and Girl Scouts.  I think women should be able to fight in combat
    units, providing they can pass the physical stress test.
    
    I think Chippendale's are stupid.  I think Playboy and Playgirl
    are stupid.  I think strip clubs are stupid and I think Hooter's
    is stupid.  I think they all cater to a mentality which is best
    left behind in puberty.  
    
    Satisfied?
    
    Mary-Michael

    re: .113
    
    Unfortunately, MMS does not possess the age or physique
    (especially physique :-) for such a courageous mission :-)
    
    

    
    	Playboy and Playgirl can merge into Playpeople.
    

    .128 Well said!! Very well said! 

While I will agree that the denigrating and unwanted exploitation of 
anyone due to their physical attributes is a pretty sordid state of
affairs, I can't fail to recognize simultaneously that the total
elimination of the sexual aspect (i.e. the boinkability factor) in 
advertising, entertainment, publishing and general public relations, 
such as at Hooters, would make for a pretty bland world, intellectual 
effrontery notwithstanding.

As the Doctah stated earlier, attractive folks "sell", ugly folks
don't. All the wishes in the world aren't going to change this. It
has to do with the continuation of the species.

    what about jimmy durante?

>As the Doctah stated earlier, attractive folks "sell", ugly folks
>don't.

Explain the "Ernest" movies.

    
    What do bikini-clad women have to do with stereo components, anyway?
                                                        

    then there's phyllis diller.

>    What do bikini-clad women have to do with stereo components, anyway?
                                                        
They're both lusted after by hormone-crazed males.

    
    >What do bikini-clad women have to do with stereo components, anyway?
    
    	They have lightning rods, and know how to use them?
    
    	Big woofers and very tight inductors?
    

    
    Nice tweeters, honey.

Knobs.

    ports.

    So the Doctah feels that all male bodies are ugly? There are no
    attractive male bodies? 

    Why not have the government run a restaurant chain called `Yikes!' and
    they can hire all the ugly people who can't get jobs at the sexist
    establishments?

    
    	Then all the stupid attractive people will want to work there
    	just because they know they'll be discriminated against.
    

    Or women will go to into mens football locker rooms because they want
    men to show them their ivory shafts.

    
    	NO, women go into men's locker rooms and then complain that they
    	had to look at the shafts.  8^)
    

    Isn't there stiff opposition to this sort of thing?

    It's hard to say.

    
    	Maybe it can be voted on in the next erection.
    

    might be a slick move... esp if slick uses Wet..;)

    is that like KY jelly?

        Kentucky jelly? Hmmm...
        
        

    Does it taste like a Julep?  

    and just when you thought the conversation could not go any lower...

    
    these last few replys have been pretty limp

re .156:

See .88.

    Re:  Jimmy Durante and Phyllis Diller
    
    
    
    They are both ugly, but neither ever tried to get work as a waitron
    at HOOters ;-}
    
    
    Hmmmm Levesque,
    
    Can I expect to see you kicking your heels in next year's Thanksgiving
    Day parade?
    
    

    Jimmy Durante, Earnest, Phyllis Diller.  I guess we're all just
    laughing at the ugly people.  And would you really want to sit across
    the dinner table from Earnest?

    >So the Doctah feels that all male bodies are ugly? 
    
     I am mystified as to how anyone could conclude this based upon
    anything I've written.

    >Can I expect to see you kicking your heels in next year's Thanksgiving
    >Day parade?
    
     Undoubtedly I'll be discriminated against, and therefore your eyes
    will be spared that particular spectacle.

    Ernest, YMTM, I insist actually.

    
    	Thanks for virtually nothing, Brian.
    

    Aw come on Mark, be a sport; you have a whole year to practice
    your high-kickin' ;-}
    
    

    >Aw come on Mark, be a sport; 
    
     Oh, but I am. ;-)
    
    >you have a whole year to practice your high-kickin' ;-}
    
     Izzat anything like high steppin'?

    re: Durante, Diller, etc. "uglies"
    
    Hey, at least no one's mentioned Mason Reese yet.
    
    Whoops...
    
    Chris

    speaking of Hooters, a friend of mine went to see a concert by
    Cheryl Wheeler, who commented that there are the kind of people
    who'd go to Hooters, and the kind of people who'd want to be
    employed by Hooters, and well, consider the advantage of having all
    those people together in such an establishment on, say, an election
    night.  ;> 

    Did she say it with a "Chinese" accent?

  hard he hard

Patrons of Hooters see red, mail Congress orange
disks


(c) 1995 Copyright Nando.net
(c) 1995 Associated Press

WASHINGTON (Dec 16, 1995 - 17:05 EST) -- Some members of
Congress are being swamped by thousands of orange Frisbee-like disks
arriving in the mails.

The disks are sent by male patrons of Hooters restaurants -- a chain
known for its scantily clad waitresses -- and contain personalized
messages that protest a government agency's push to force the chain to
hire more men.

"Trust me. I did not come to Hooters to see guys. This place is what it is.
Leave it alone," wrote a Raleigh, N.C., man.

"The idea of men in a Hooters uniform is even more tasteless than can
be imagined," wrote another man, from Riegelwood.

The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, after a four-year
investigation, recently told Hooters it had to hire men to work with its
waitresses. Hooters refused. The matter is likely now headed to the
courts. There are 174 outlets in 38 states.

No bills before Congress concern Hooters, but some lawmakers
volunteered opinions on the flap Friday, the Charlotte (N.C.) Observer
reported.

Rep. Mel Watt, D-N.C., of Charlotte, says hiring ought to be done on an
equal basis.

"They should not discriminate against people on the basis of race, sex or
national origin," said Watt, whose office received a dozen discs.

But Sen. Lauch Faircloth, R-N.C., whose office has gotten hundreds of
disks, believes the government should not interfere with a business's
hiring decisions. So does Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., of Charlotte, who
believes the government has important cases of discrimination to get
involved in, and Hooters is not one of them.

Meanwhile, some politicians, like Sen. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., are not
taking a position.

But Helms, like Faircloth, has decided to donate the hundreds of disks to
young people's organizations.

A spokesman for the Atlanta-based Hooters said the company has spent
$750,000 to buy and mail 30,000 disks which they ask patrons to sign and
write a brief message on an attached piece of paper.

Why disks?

"It's just something people won't forget," the spokesman said.



    
    
    Ummmmmmm.... anyone know if there's a Hooters in the Fort Myers area???

    I wish there was on where I live at...

    
>"The idea of men in a Hooters uniform is even more tasteless than can
>be imagined," wrote another man, from Riegelwood.

    Helllooooo...McFlyyyyyy...
    

    
    	You gotta wonder about some people, eh?
    
    	Is that the reporter taking the guy seriously, when he was kid-
    	ding, or was the guy really serious?
    
    	At least in here, you can tell when someone is kidding around.
    	Usually.
    

    Hooters are all over Florida.

        Try http://www.hooters.com - there's a clickable map in there
        that'll tell you where the nearest Hooters is located...
        

    
    
    Tried it.. didn't work...
    
    Oh!!! You mean I need a PC for that??? and be PC litterate?? 
    
    Wrong on both accounts...  :) :)
    

literate.  nnttm.

    
    Then you can tell me, no doubt, where I can get my LK401-AA fixed
    because of keys sticking???
    
    
    tymtfid....
    

    
    .179
    
    You can't.  Replace it.   :^)
    

    
    
    Thanks !Joan...
    
     I was just told that, and will proceed to the nearest vacant offices
    around here to see if I can snag one!!
    
    :) :)
    

    Re: .176
    
    Nice Jet Funny Car!!  http://www.hooters.com/jetcar.html

    re: Nice Jet Funny Car!!
    
    Seen it in action.  Jets are AWESOME.  My old neighbor used to have
    one.  Probably still does.  It's called the "Eastern Raider".
    
    MadMike

    DOes the funny car have a good set of headlights?

    ^re: Nice Jet Funny Car!!
    
    ^    Seen it in action.
    
    Did it have the same extra equipment??  :)

    re: Did it have the same extra equipment??  :)
    
    No... they towed the chicks behind it on a flatbed and in the
    "hooters limo".  The thing must have been 50 feet long.
    Not to mention me after they went by, er, something like that.

Today's "Mother Goose & Grimm" shows a scene with several fine male specimens
of the bovine genus sitting in a bar hoisting a few.

Caption is "Favorite watering hole for bulls" or something like that.

Sign out front:  UDDERS.

    			      hic!
			      /
                          (__)
                          (oo)
                   /-------\/ 
                  / |     ||  
                 *  ||I---||  
                    ~~    ~~  

                                  
                                
			  (__)   
                          (o-)    
                   /-------\/ 
                  / |     || \ 
                 *  ||W---|| Moo. 
                    ~~    ~~  

    

    
    	Looks like that cow could use a moonacle.
    

                <<< VMSNET::DSA120:[NOTESFILES]NASCAR.NOTE;2 >>>
                               -< NASCAR RACING >-
================================================================================
Note 257.0                Hey Washington... GET A GRIP                No replies
VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK "Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly"   18 lines  12-FEB-1996 15:31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was watching a Hooters race after the Clash yesterday, Hooters
    cup or something.  The cars are late models.  Anyway, when the
    race was over they went to victory circle, and I immediately
    noticed something fishy...
    
    Y'all know that "gal" that plays pool in the Bud light commercials?
    The "gal" with the fake boobs, the blond wig and the thick black
    mustache?  Well, HE'S A HOOTERS GUY!!!!  I was laughin my a$$ off.
    There were 5 real nice gals presenting the trophy and the winners
    check, and this bozo... with his orange short shorts, low cut t-shirt,
    fake boobs, blond wig and black stash... 
    
    I guess hooters is going to play this up, big time.  They've
    incorparated him into some of their tv commercials, with the slogan,
    
    Hey Washington... get a grip.
    
    This would be funny if it wern't serious.  Pass me a WINSTON.

The Hooters Cup?  What size is it?

    A little smaller than Winston Cup.  ar ar...

    I should say that my sole "Hooters" experience was close to midnight as
    I recall.
    
    That may begin to help to explain the difference between my
    observations of the Hooters in Atlanna and others posted here.
    
    By any chance, were these women forced into slavery at Hooters? Or did
    they dress up in bugrall, indulge in word and perhaps physical play
    with the perhaps inebriated customers and not like the treatment they
    got back? Were they raped? Apparently not. Goosed? Probably. 
    
    It makes me wonder, did they think a lawsuit would:
    
    	a) correct Hooters customer behaviour 
    or 
    	b) make them some money?
    
    In other words, ah diddums.
    
    
    /a

...facts not in evidence.

    Andy,
    
    You said the one word that explains it all:
    
    Atlanta (aka Sin City)
    
    FJP

    That explains Mr Covert.

    
    	RE: .213
    
    	Andy, if a Hooters customer plunges wrist-deep into a part of a
    	waitress that he has no business having his hand in, is that OK
    	because "she knew what she was getting herself into"?
    
    	I don't think so.  There ARE limits.
    

    Filthaaa!

    I thought Lynn, MA was "Sin City"...

    re: .217 Sorry, I'd missed this reply.
    
    Of course it isn't okay to be assaulted by a customer. BUT you have to
    take into consideration that, if the Hooters restaurants are all as
    rowdy as the one that I went into, the waitresses should expect some
    form of hanky-panky and be prepared to slap down the offender. Also,
    the management should be there to ensure that nothing got out of hand.
    
    It takes a certain classy act to be able to walk the fine line and
    those I observed in Atlanta did so in style.
    
    /a

    .220
    
    /the waitresses should expect some form of hanky-panky 
    /and be prepared to slap down the offender.
    
    tsk.  tsk.  how unladylike.  definitely not beauty pageant material.
    
    

    
    	Counts for a whole bunch of points in the newly-added "Assertive
    	FemiNazi Tactics" category, Bonnie.
    

    hooters presentation is a very subtle art.
    good thing those beauty pageant gals are on
    a stage during the bathing suit contest.

It looks like the company that owns the rights to franchise Hooters in
Massachusetts is trying to sneak one into the North Station area.

R.J. Fitz's Portland Street Saloon had asked for permission to expand
by opening a bar and cigar room on the second floor.  The request was
approved by Boston's licensing board, partly with the support of a
group of merchants known as the Downtown North Association.

After obtaining approval, R.J. Fitz changed its plans.  It intends to
operate a bar and cigar room on the second floor, but to convert its
first floor space into a Hooters restaurant.  It claims that the approval
which they obtained was for the use of the space, not for the name of
the restaurant (which will be operated by Fitz under franchise from
the Atlanta-based chain).

The Downtown North Association is protesting, stating now that the
neighborhood already has a "high concentration" of bars and restaurants.
Boxers who have been to the first brewpub in the area -- Commonwealth
Brewing will know that this is true -- but is it relevant?

DNA also claims that there are "public safety" questions because "The
clientele they attract requires close monitoring."  DNA has retained
the Boston law firm of Peabody & Brown to explore possible legal
avenues to block Hooters.  DNA says that "The whole concept" of Hooters
is "out of character" in Boston.  A restaurant with a Florida beach
theme and a name that is a "double entendre for women's breasts" is
"more appropriate to southern climes than to Boston," according to
Bob O'Brien, executive director of DNA.

A picture of waitresses at the Warwick, R. I., Hooters restaurant
delivering drinks on roller skates is located at

	http://bulova.zko.dec.com/group/covert/hooters.jpg

/john

Bob O'Brien is quite then anal Beacon Hill snob, eh?

    
    
    	That type of clientele requires close monitoring?
    
    	Please.  Quite a few of my male friends have frequented
    	Hooters establishments in PA and elsewhere, and I assure
    	you they do not need close monitoring.  (at least not in
    	the sense that the police are worried about)
    
    	

    
    	Jeeeeezzzeee,
    
    	I've been to Hooters several times in Fla. I sure hope noone goes
    there expecting any spectacular views. The outfits are not that great.
    Actually the service ,on the times that I've been there, was excellent
    and the wings are some of the best I've eaten. Don't know about the
    rest of the food, cause the only reason I go there is for the wings.
    
    ej

 What's Herman's Hermits got to do with it?

    .224
    
     Sounds like the DNA figgers it's make up an excuse day.

            <<< Note 585.227 by SUBSYS::NEUMYER "Born to boogie" >>>

>    	I've been to Hooters several times in Fla. I sure hope noone goes
>    there expecting any spectacular views. The outfits are not that great.
>    Actually the service ,on the times that I've been there, was excellent
>    and the wings are some of the best I've eaten. Don't know about the
>    rest of the food, cause the only reason I go there is for the wings.
 
	I went to the one they had (it has since closed) here in the
	Springs. The service was poor.The food was, as best, mediocre.
	I think they lasted a little over a year before they went out
	of business.

Jim

    Jim,
    
    You can get much better wings at O'Furry's or at (shudder) Meadow
    Muffins.  
    
    meg

             <<< Note 585.231 by CSC32::M_EVANS "be the village" >>>

>    You can get much better wings at O'Furry's or at (shudder) Meadow
>    Muffins.  
 
	My favorites are from a little take-out joint called Wild Bill's
	Buffalo Wings, but I'm not sure they are still in business
	(the Springs is TOUGH on resturants).

Jim

    
    
    	re: Meadow Muffins
    
    	Not your kinda place Meg?  =)
    

Um, do they have an unusual specialty?

    Their clientele consists entirely of dung beetles vacationing from the
    Serengeti.

    I have the misfortune of living three blocks from MM.  I have some
    rather firm opinions about their drunk screening that can't be stated
    in here.  
    
    meg

    
    
    	Ah.  I've been there twice on my few trips out west.  Once
    	was during the day and was just for lunch.  The second time
    	was on a weekend night when there wasn't enough room to move
    	in there.  While I think the decor is pretty interesting, it
    	was a bit too packed with people for me to be comfortable.
    
    

     Re .230
    
    	Jim,
    
    I went to that Hooters in the Springs also and it was very different
    than the one in Fla. I believe the one in Clearwater is one of, if not
    the first Hooters.
    
    ed

>	I went to the one they had (it has since closed) here in the
>	Springs.

Closed?  You lie.  Why do you lie?

/john

             <<< Note 585.239 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>

>Closed?  You lie.  Why do you lie?

	You're right, I lied. I could have sworn that a new resturant
	had moved in there.

Jim

    
    	The place has probably closed many times since Jim was there, un-
    	less of course they make it a habit of staying open all the time.
    

	The planned Hooters near North Station should receive its
	license within two days and be operational soon.

    i believe they stated (on the radio this morning) that they have it.
    
    i wonder how long the locals will continue the noise...

    There is a chain like Hooters called (help me with this) that is
    rumored to be comeing to my town in Cow Hampster.
    
    Steve

    baps?

    That was it. Thanks.
    
    How big (# of places) are they?
    
    
    Steve

    
    re: hooters license...
    
    according the the couple of reports i heard this morning, they only got
    a license for beer and wine.  

 >   There is a chain like Hooters called (help me with this) that is
 >   rumored to be comeing to my town in Cow Hampster.
 

  Chi CHi's ?

>    How big are they?
    
44DD.

    As Al Bundy would say... Big-uns

A letter in today's Globe:

Hooters contributes to the degrading of women

I would like to voice an additional concern regarding the Hooters 
restaurant opening on Portland Street in Boston.  Hooters is a national 
chain that creates a climate of objectification and degradation for women 
by the mandated dress code for the wait staff.  The female wait staff are 
required to wear a revealing outfit with the logo "Hooters" across their 
chests.  At first one whould think the logo is a reference to the owl that 
is made out of the two O's.  What is not explicitly stated but implied is 
that the logo refers to a woman's breasts.  Essentially, the restaurant is 
called Breasts.

So why does the rape crisis center care?  Institutions such as Hooters 
foster attitudes of disrespect for women; as a matter of fact, they make a 
living out of it.  The environment is dehumanizing and degrading.  This 
contributes to the climate that tolerates rape and violence against women.

In the past year, the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center received 3,000 
hot-line calls, advocated for more than 100 victims of sexual violence, and 
provided counseling services to more than 200 survivors of sexual assault.

The rape crisis center isn't looking for more business.  We are looking to 
create a community that does not tolerate sexual violence.  Hooters is not 
a part of this community.

BRENDA NOEL
Public education coordinator
Boston Area Rape Crisis Center 
Cambridge

    IDKT Hooters restaurants promote rape.
    
    Guess I'll stay away.

    Not surprising in a world where lactose dispensers are considered
    objects of sexual desire.

    this troubles me.

   .252  even if they don't "promote rape", the notion that they
	 contribute to a climate that devalues women is not that far-fetched,
	 imo.

    
      brenda musta been having a real slow day in Cambridge
    
      bb

    I don't think it's far fetched at all.

    So, stat wise, you chances increase to become a rapist increase case
    you have gone to a 'Hooters' restrant. Imagine.... what how the stats
    are in the summer time when guys go see women in bikini's at a beach.
    Wow! Must be off the charts!:)
    

<searching for amazing Ronco translator>

    use a babel fish.

    I have it at my desk. Wanna borrow it? 

    Actually, my ex-advisor, who spent his life doing sex research (more
    boring than one would expect, since it involved little "field" work),
    very stridently and consistently claimed that there isn't any good
    research showing a link between pornography and rape.
    
    Then again, the insistence of some people to view women as sex devices
    does get a bit tedious at times.

    >Then again, the insistence of some people to view women as sex devices
    >does get a bit tedious at times.
    
     On the other hand, the sheer number of women making a living by being
    (or acting like) "sex devices" makes this a tough nut to crack.

    
    we could easily fix this problem.
    

  .264  <chuckle>

    Loin cloths and a ruler to check one's "qualifications"? :-)
    
    I think that would be a hoot. ;-)

>    I think that would be a hoot. ;-)

Well, that was inevitable, wasn't it? ;-)

    
    names for the specialties of the house could be
    quite creative.
    

    g-string beans
    tube steak (beef rouladin) comes also in Lorena sized portions

    
    a heaping helping of stanley kowalski's polish kielbasa.
    alone, or in a sandwich.
    

    
    	Yup, just slide the sausage right between the buns.
    

    <----- I think we have a wiener!

    Better than a weenie.:)

	re .262
	
	So, I guess he didn't research Ted Bundy.

    You believe Ted Bundy?

    could it be Brenda ia about a AAA and her application was turned down
    once by Hooters?

    So, like, that's the only reason why someone would be opposed to such
    an establishment?

    -1 bad fries?

    Great wings and breast.;)

              <<< Note 585.277 by BULEAN::BANKS "Goose Cooker" >>>
                                   -< jeesh >-

   > So, like, that's the only reason why someone would be opposed to such
   > an establishment?

    I'll take "Mediocre Food" for $100, Alex.

    
      tender, boneless...
    
      bb

	So, when's the BoxBash at Hooters?

    >Not surprising in a world where lactose dispensers are considered
    >objects of sexual desire.
    
     Gee, do you suppose the number of women who get a sexual response from
    the stimulation of the same could have anything at all to do with it?

    I dunno.
    
    I've known a large number of men who'd pop chubbies at the mere mention
    of a pair of bodacious ta-tas, without ever once considering whether
    there'd be any sexual response from the woman.

    So where do you figure the association between breasts and sex comes
    from, then?

I have no idea.  This has always been one of my life's mysteries.

Freud would have probably made a bunch of hokum about trying to return to
the oral stage, and the sexual gratification the infant receives at his
mother's breast.  Then again, I always thought Freud was just a bit
obsessed with sex, and never really gave his ideas much serious
consideration.

    
    "bodacious ta-tas"!
    
    I am DYING over here.
    

    
    		    Women with implants found
                    to drink more, have more sex
                    partners
    
                    Associated Press, 05/28/97 05:59 
    
                    CHICAGO (AP) - Researchers examining the
                    health risks of breast implants should consider that
                    women who have breast enlargements tend to drink
                    more, have more sex partners and get pregnant
                    younger, a study said. 
    
                    The study was conducted to prod implant
                    researchers to weigh lifestyle factors when
                    accessing the safety of implants, said Linda S.
                    Cook of Seattle's Fred Hutchinson Cancer
                    Research Center. She said implants could be getting
                    the blame for health problems caused by other risk
                    factors. 
    
                    ``You have to look at these factors anew in every
                    study that you do,'' she said in a telephone
                    interview. The study was reported today in The
                    Journal of the American Medical Association. 
    
                    It said women who have implants are also more
                    likely to have abortions, use the pill and dye their
                    hair. 
    
                    For example, hair dye could increase the risk of
                    connective tissue diseases while oral contraceptives
                    may reduce the risk of rheumatoid arthritis. Failing
                    to consider those factors could conceal the risk
                    arising from breast implants, the study said. 
    
                    About 1 million American women have had
                    implants, 80 percent for cosmetic reasons.
                    Thousands claim that silicone leaks have caused
                    arthritis and such immune system disorders as lupus
                    and scleroderma. 
    
                    Studies of thousands of women have turned up no
                    solid evidence that implants cause ailments but the
                    issue is still under debate among scientists and in the
                    courts, where Dow Corning Corp. and other
                    silicone gel implant makers face huge lawsuits. 
    
                    The Food and Drug Administration in 1992
                    restricted silicone gel implants to mastectomy
                    patients in medical experiments. Saline-filled
                    implants were still available for use in cosmetic and
                    reconstructive surgery. 
    
                    Implant activists were critical of the study, with one
                    warning it could be used to slander women who
                    have had their breasts enlarged. 
    
                    ``We believe it would be an insult not only to these
                    women but to the authors of the JAMA study as
                    well if self-serving parties were to use the JAMA
                    study as a means for character assassination,'' said
                    Sybil Goldrich, head of Los Angeles-based
                    Command Trust Network, which represents
                    women suing breast implant manufacturers. 
    
                    John Musser, a spokesman for Dow Chemical Co.,
                    which owns half of Dow Corning, praised the study
                    for seeking ``what other so-called confounding
                    factors may be contributing to these claimed
                    illnesses.'' 
    
                    In the study, Cook used data from previous studies
                    of women in Washington state, New Jersey and
                    Atlanta. The data covered 3,570 women - 80 of
                    whom had breast implants for augmentation. 
    
                    Cook found women with enlargements were nearly
                    three times more likely to drink seven or more
                    alcoholic beverages a week, more than 1.5 times as
                    likely to be pregnant before age 20 and twice as
                    likely to have had an abortion. 
    
                    She found they were more than twice as likely to
                    have used oral contraceptives, about 4.5 times
                    more likely to dye their hair, nearly nine times as
                    likely to have had at least 14 sexual partners and
                    much less likely to be heavy than their counterparts
                    without implants. 
    
                    Cook said her work received no money from
                    implant manufacturers. 
    

Well, Darwin identifies them as secondary sexual characteristics, and claims
that as humans evolved into upright-walking animals the breasts got larger
and rounder to replace the buttocks that formerly attracted the male of the
species when the species walked on all fours.

The bodaciousness has very little to do with the lactating function.

/john

Once again, /john to the rescue.  This time, it didn't involve telephones,
either.

Re: Implants:

The health risks of being blonde?

    14 sexual partners!?!?

    Good grief!
    
    hmmm, maybe I should get some breast implants...

Naw.  If you did, you'd be so busy with yourself, you'd never have time to
go out and meet people.

re .289

Was that Darwin, or Desmond Morris?

    |Naw.  If you did, you'd be so busy with yourself, you'd never have
    
    
    No, see, I already do this.
    

    
    	But now BOTH hands will have something to do.
    

	I think Glenn meant both were already busy

    >Women with implants found to drink more, have more sex partners
    
     What a surprising result that was, eh?
    

    
      is hooters all natural ?
    
      bb

    
    I wonder how successful such a restaurant would be if it were named
    "Bodacious Ta-Tas".
    

    Bodacious Bodega might be better.

    .. how bout Magnificant Mamaries.:)

    <== you wish to provoke a protest by English teachers?

    Grovel-grovel-grovel. Sorry!:) Beat me, whipme, make me answer the
    phones.:)

    I don't get it. If women find it degrading, then the solution is simple
    to me. Just don't apply for a job there. If all women found it
    degrading then they wouldn't find the staff. Obvioulsy the staff who
    work there, have pride in their appearance, who are we to say that they
    are being degrading or degraded.
    
    I for one think it is a great place. Granted I was only in there long
    enough to have a couple beers, as we had other things to do. But the
    staff didn't seem too `degraded' to me. Afterall none of them were
    wearing neon signs saying. `Help me. I feel degraded'
    
    Steven

Starting from there, it would just take too long to 'splain.

    
    	It could very well turn into a circular argument.
    
    	But if you're going to get into the "but were else would they
    	work?" facet, I'm sure there are more suitable places that would
    	accept them.
    

  .305 by BULEAN::BANKS

	aagagagag.  you said it.

Y'know, the more I pay attention to this string and hear comments
about what is OK to think/feel, the more perverted I suspect I am.

Personally, I think that anyone predisposed to raping another is going
to do it eventually anyway. As a matter of fact, probably the
healthiest thing potential attackees could do would be to walk around
naked. Another benefit to that would be that us normal people would
enjoy it, too.

But I digress...

    
    /As a matter of fact, probably the
    /healthiest thing potential attackees could do would be to walk around
    /naked.
    
    you're kidding, right?
    
    

    
    re .306
    
    	There are plenty of places that would accept them. 
    
    	Hooters is just one place. A lot of the women that I've personally
    seen working there are nothing special. A lot aren't even very well
    built. But the service is good and the food is as good as most places
    of the same ilk. 
    
    	I like that they 'ice' down the pitchers of beer at your table.
    
    ed

                        I'm kidding, *left*.

    
    	RE: .310
    
    	"Of the same ilk"
    
    	????
    

    
    Same ilk...
    
    	Serve the same type of plastic food. Such as Chili's, Applebees,
    Ground Round.
    
    	I know it's not the same atmosphere, but I was talking about the
    food.
    
    ed

    
    	RE: .313
    
    	Never mind, Jack ... carry on.
    
    
    
    	8^)
    

    > Hooters is just one place. A lot of the women that I've personally
    >seen working there are nothing special. A lot aren't even very well
    >built. But the service is good and the food is as good as most
    >places of the same ilk.
    
    Ed goes there for the food!   ;)

    I have had far better wings!
    
    meg

    let's face it. the problem here is another example of people with too
    much time on their hands and not enough life to fill the voids.
    
    if you look up "stretch" in the dictionary it will probably be described
    as "scantily clad women promote rape". 
    
    as mentioned earlier, there is no evidence to support this supposition.
    now that the position is supported by an "opinion", well...  

"Surgeon General Koop's survey concluded that only two reliable
generalizations could be made about the impact of exposure to "degrading"
sexual material on its viewers: it caused them to think that a variety of
sexual practices were more common than they had previously believed, and it
caused them to more accurately estimate the prevalance of varied sexual
practices." 

--Edward Mulrey and Jeffrey Haugaard, Surgeon General's Workshop on
Pornography and Public Health. (Arlington, Virginia: U.S. Department of
Health and Human Services, 1986.) 

    "reliable generalizations"??? now there's a definitive position.

"The antipornography movement of the 1980s represents yet another attempt by
certain groups to impose their morals on the rest of society.  What makes
these efforts more threatening than those of the past is the extent to which
they have been abetted by federal, state, and local authorities. The climate
engendered by initiatives such as the Meese Commission has been described
with only a bit of hyperbole by Hugh Hefner as "sexual McCarthyism." "

Donna A. Demac, Liberty Denied: The Current Rise of Censorship in America

    
    	re .315
    
    	Actually I go there for the beer. The food is just an excuse. Oh
    and BTW, my wife has always been with me when I go just so she can slap
    me if I start to think about raping anyone.
    
    ed

    <---- HAHAHA! 

MIT is a haven of narrow-mindedness

To the Editor: 

This is the first letter I've ever written to the Tech, though this is not
the first time I've felt so motivated. It is a statement of shock and dismay
at the continuing dangerous narrow-mindedness that is present in what should
be one of the great intellectual centers of this country, namely MIT. 

How many years has it been since I've encountered on a daily basis the ugly
realities of provinciality and censorship here? Every day there is some new
protest of pornography, homosexuality, or some other "perversion." 

I'm in favor of constructive debate, but too often the group involved wants
to espouse their opinion to the exclusion of all others. They would like to
censor our lives left and right in pursuit of their conceptions of utopia.
Haven't they read 1984? 

For God's sake (is there a god?) would all of you get it through your heads
that life is not pretty and never will be. It is the gift (or burden) of the
intellectual to realize this and appreciate life with all its cruelties as
objectively as possible. 

We must dedicate ourselves to the assimilation of all experience, good and
bad. In fact, we should recognize that no matter how opinionated we may
become, we must realize that truth is relative.  There is neither good nor
bad but thinking makes it so. The only truth we can know is honesty, that is,
the accurate portrayal of reality with its good and bad. 

All you high-minded radicals are denying the virtues of a rational objective
intellectual existence.  You can't hope to make it all right by censorship. 

In the other day's Tech there was a letter from German house crying for the
censorship of all World War II documentation. I am of German descent and am
aware of my heritage. 

I am saddened to know that my race was instrumental in the greatest horrors
ever wreaked upon the modern world. Yet I can never censor this fact. We all
know that he who denies his past is condemned to repeat it. And I know too
that much good came from the traumas of WWII, intellectual, moral and
aesthetic. 

I have stated with brevity all that I wished to say. If you cannot appreciate
what I am saying, that they might as well drop the bomb now and wipe this
stupid slate clean. 

----
Copyright 1985 by The Tech. All rights reserved.
This story was published on  Friday,  March 8, 1985.
Volume 105, Number 9
The story began on page  5 
and jumped to page 5.

This article may be freely distributed electronically,
provided it is distributed in its entirety and includes
this notice, but may not be reprinted without the
express written permission of The Tech.  Write to
archive@the-tech.mit.edu for additional details.

re "There is neither good nor bad"

Hah!

/john

    
    Either I'm missing something, or .323 doesn't have anything to do with
    Hooters.
    
    <confused look>
    

    <-- Apparently, we are both missing something, then.  I fail to see the
    connection, too.

    
      "shock and dismay" ?  It looks like one of those letters that are
     fun to write, but then should be set aside a day to fester, and
     then never sent.  Just as there is no hope that censorship can ever
     "succeed" in some 100% sense, there is also no chance that attempts
     will not be made.
    
      For example, Congress and the FTC are about to make a cult hero
     mythic martyr out of Joe Camel.  It will be the most sought after
     tattoo of the cycle gangs...
    
      bb

From the Feminists for Free Expression site:
http://www.well.com/user/freedom/index.html

"Restrictions on sexual material -- whether in serious art or in commercial
pornography -- are often imposed in the name of "protecting" women. These
restrictions do nothing to promote women's equality and much to infantilize
them. The theory that ideas, information, or images involving sex are
inherently offensive to women only shores up destructive Victorian
stereotypes of female purity and asexuality.  This retrogressive notion has
lead to the removal of classic nude sculptures or drawings from public art
exhibits. In one Pennsylvania university, a reproduction of Goya's Maja
Desnuda was taken down when a woman complained that the painting created a
hostile environment. FFE finds it difficult to see how this benefits the
goals of women.

"The answer to sexist pornography or misogynistic music is not censorship, but
criticism, analysis, and the production of art and entertainment that is
feminist in its vision and in its exploration of the range of female
interests, ideas, experiences , including women's sexual interests."

So, you'll be at the Hooters BoxBash, then?

Ya know,

Places like Hooters are, IMNSHO, tedious and annoying, but otherwise mostly
harmless.

It just still puzzles me why anyone capable of walking without bruising his
knuckles and/or breathing through his nose, would possibly want to waste
his time or money there, particularly if the food's not exciting.

    
    	Because most men want to gawk at large breasts, and they're hoping
    	that the restaurant will live up to its name in that regard.
    

    
    Well, I go to a lot of places where the food is not "exciting". Most of
    the places I go where the food IS exciting are fairly expensive. So
    sometimes I go to places that have average food that is more
    affordable. Hooters is only one of them. 
    
    	Actually, the olny time I go to Hooters is when I'm in Florida or
    Colorado. 'cause there aren't any near me as yet.
    
    ed

The one time I was in one, it didn't.

    
    So are the waitresses' salaries based on breast size, or what?  Small
    boobs, minimum wage; big boobs, premium?
    
                          

    
    we could make a bundle... :> :>
    
    

>                      -< Wearing jackboots and swastika? >-
> So, you'll be at the Hooters BoxBash, then?

...and ceremonial dagger. Don't forget the ceremonial dagger.

In my vast Hooters experience (one visit), I find that it's about as sexually
stimulating as visiting Applebee's/GroundRound/99 on a hot summer day.

    ya, I was going to say that when I was at one, I didn't find the
    outfits to be that revealing nor did I find the waitresses to be well
    endowed.

    	I have been to Hooters once, when I was on a training trip. Just to see
    what all the talk was all about and to get something to eat. The girls are
    attractive but so is my wife. The best thing about the place is that the 
    waitress actually talks to you and shoots the bull. Yeah Yeah Yeah, I know 
    they do that to get a bigger tip. But it is nice to shoot the bull with
    anyone when your away from home. Food was pretty good to, buffalo wings
    were great.

 Shooting the bull?  Does the anti gun lobby know about this?

    
    	"Waitress shoots the bull"
    
    	Then you REALLY know that the buffalo wings are fresh.
    

My softball sponsor, Players in Salem NH, has better dressed 
waitresses.

Um, I don't think Hooters' attraction is how well-dressed the waitresses are.

    
    	But the nude ones are not quite as good?
    

  <<< Note 585.345 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

>Um, I don't think Hooters' attraction is how well-dressed the waitresses are.

No? Gee. Perhaps if I said that their outfits are more revealing 
would that clear it up for you? 

I do hope so.

    ..the watresses are hunched front... Poor things. :)

Anybody have a Rauh-to-English translator?

>             <<< Note 585.347 by SALEM::DODA "Just you wait..." >>>


	so better dressed = more revealing?  idkt.

     <<< Note 585.350 by FUTURE::DDESMAISONS "Are you married or happy?" >>>


	>so better dressed = more revealing?  idkt.

        In the context of this discussion? Yes it most certainly does.

>Anybody have a Rauh-to-English translator?


It's in development.

>             <<< Note 585.351 by SALEM::DODA "Just you wait..." >>>

>        In the context of this discussion? Yes it most certainly does.

	in the context of any discussion, idkt.

Glad to clear that up for you then.

>             <<< Note 585.354 by SALEM::DODA "Just you wait..." >>>

	yes, quite telling.

You're free to think so. You're wrong, but you are free to.

   I'm free to think so?  Gee, that's a relief.

Of course you are, right...or wrong.

    
    	RE: Diane
    
    	Clearly his reply used "better" to mean "more appealing in a visual
    	sense".
    

He shooo is smaht ain't he?

   well thanks for listing the possibilities.  right or wrong.
   yes, yes, those would be them.  or they.

   you've been most helpful, i must say.

>      <<< Note 585.359 by BUSY::SLAB "Audiophiles do it 'til it hertz!" >>>
    
>    	Clearly his reply used "better" to mean "more appealing in a visual
>    	sense".

	duh, you mean, like, more revealing?  no kidding.

    

    
    	Now my head is spinning in circles.
    
    	But the good news is that it's the only way I can keep up with this
    	discussion.
    

>      <<< Note 585.363 by BUSY::SLAB "Audiophiles do it 'til it hertz!" >>>

	if you start spitting green stuff up, call a priest. 

What exactly is the problem then? This whole string consists of 
why Hooters is good or bad and most of it has to do with how the 
help is dressed. I point out that the place down the street has 
their help dressed in much the same fashion, if not more 
revealing. Thinking that, gee, someone might wonder why no one is protesting 
at the place down the street. Could it be that it's quite common 
to dress your help in such a revealing manner? I've already 
stated in this string at least once that I don't see the 
attraction to this place. Yet, my response is 'telling'.
Perhaps 'better' was a poor choice to describe it. 

mea freakin culpa.

    
    	Battis is right ... Diane's being stubborn today.
    

>             <<< Note 585.365 by SALEM::DODA "Just you wait..." >>>

>Perhaps 'better' was a poor choice to describe it. 

	It certainly wouldn't have been my choice.  I was 
	a little surprised it was yours.  If you actually didn't
	mean "better", then that would explain it.

I sense an imminent group hug.

>      <<< Note 585.366 by BUSY::SLAB "Audiophiles do it 'til it hertz!" >>>

>    	Battis is right ... Diane's being stubborn today.

	he didn't say i was being stubborn - he said i was being
	"to sensitive".  please keep the generalizations straight.
	thanks.  oh, and fwiw, i'm being no more stubborn or sensitive
	than i am any other day. ;>
 

    

    
    	Oops, sorry.  Maybe it was me who thought you were being stubborn
    	today.
    
    	8^)
    

Glad that's cleared up.

>      <<< Note 585.370 by BUSY::SLAB "Audiophiles do it 'til it hertz!" >>>

>    	Oops, sorry.  Maybe it was me who thought you were being stubborn
>    	today.

	this is Soapbox, right?  people argue about stuff in here, right?
	but i'm being "stubborn" today?  why - do i usually just back down
	immediately from a position?

	(cue comment about being "to sensitive".)

You're a bit sensitive today eh?

>It just still puzzles me why anyone capable of walking without bruising his
>knuckles and/or breathing through his nose, would possibly want to waste
>his time or money there, particularly if the food's not exciting.
    
    Let me preface this by saying I've never been.
    
    But I wonder if you think that a little "mostly harmless" titillation
    is necessarily a bad thing. Life's too short to be serious all of the
    time.

I didn't know that breathing through your nose is a sign that you're brutish.

    
    	Walking around red-faced is usually a sign that you're Ireish.
    

   .375  you mean in the context of this discussion? ;>

    In the context of any discussion, dammit!

    how telling!

    .374:
    
    No, nothing wrong with harmless titillation.  It's just that the
    attraction of this particular example still eludes me.

how insensitive.

    >It's just that the attraction of this particular example still eludes
    >me.
    
     Just another example of "different strokes"...

    >But I wonder if you think that a little "mostly harmless" titillation
    >is necessarily a bad thing. Life's too short to be serious all of the
    >time.
    
    I know from experience, titillation is NEVER a bad thing!!  :)

    If you want goo wings in colorado Springs, try Meadow Muffins or
    O'Furry's next time your are out.  They have the spice, a good balance
    of grease to protein and the dipping sauce is tasty.  They also stock a
    reasonably decent local brew.  
    
    meg

"goo wings" at "Meadow Muffins"?

>             <<< Note 585.385 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>
>                          -< what has goo and flies >-

	watch the O'Furry flies?

	People actually dine at an establishment named "Meadow Muffins" ???

    Food isn't too bad for bar munchies.
    
    
    
    

    >People actually dine at an establishment named "Meadow Muffins"
    
    Some even dine at a place called "Eat Here and Get Gas".
    

    If it is such a bad place, then how come they are still in business.
    Obviously the punters like going there, for whatever reason. And I am
    sure the management don't give a hoot, pun intended, whether customers
    go there to gawk at breasts or feed on breasts. At the end of the day a
    customer is a customer. And if the place was so downright awful then I
    am sure that people would choose not to go in there and spend money.
    
    Steven 

    I don't know,
    
    Chili's, Chevy's, Chi Chi's and Denny's have been in business for
    years, I can see why Hooters is as well.  some people prefer no taste
    to haveing to gamble on local food.  One reason I hate traveling X
    country with my mother.
    
    meg