Conference back40::soapbox

    we seem to have hit a thread here (see elsewhere in conference) -
    
    people rarely OWN pets, they are OWNED by pets.
    
    2 Chows share joint custody of my carcass, and contrary to poular
    opinion are giant Teddy Bears... 

    
    
    They're not really my "pets", but the flying pigs outside here and at
    home own me, lock, stock and barrel!!
    

I don't think that my fish own me.  They're too daft.

Chris.

    
    When they invent a pet that:
    
    	1. doesn't crap or pee...
    
    	2. will eat anyone who I don't want to be in my house, and
    	   especially has a taste for Jehovah's Witnesses and/or
    	   Democratic candidates stumping from door to door...
    
    	3. will never, ever attempt to fornicate my leg...
    
    	4. will not eat food I leave out to defrost for my dinner...
    
    	5. costs less than a month's pay...
    
    	6. sits under the table, eager to eat stuff that I don't
    	   like, helping to keep the household peace...
    
    then I'll get one... otherwise, I want nothing to do with fur-bearing
    $#!+ machines.
    
    -b

    
    I have .bmps of my precious babies, if anyone would like me to mail
    them a copy 8^).
    

       <<< Note 651.4 by CPEEDY::MARKEY "He's ma...ma...ma...mad sir" >>>

    
    When they invent a GIRLFRIEND/BOYFRIEND that:
    
    	1. doesn't crap or pee...
    
    	2. will eat anyone who I don't want to be in my house, and
    	   especially has a taste for Jehovah's Witnesses and/or
    	   Democratic candidates stumping from door to door...
    
    	3. will never, ever attempt to fornicate my leg...
    
    	4. will not eat food I leave out to defrost for my dinner...
    
    	5. costs less than a month's pay...
    
    	6. sits under the table, eager to eat stuff that I don't
    	   like, helping to keep the household peace...
    
    then I'll get one... otherwise, I want nothing to do with fur-bearing
    $#!+ machines.
    
    -bob (with apologies to B_MARKEY)

    

You forgot "7. Doesn't shed. Ever.", -b.

Everytime I think about replacing Max, I remind myself how nice it is not
to sweep/vacuum up a 5# bag of dog hair every damn day of the year. I now
can actually have carpeting on my floors and upholstered furniture that
doesn't require slip covering.

There's also "8. Fends for itself if you take a vacation."

Another problem (kenneling/house sitting) I haven't had to deal with in
the past 10 months.

I've had dogs all of my life up until last year. While I miss every bit
of the companionship, etc. I _DO_NOT_ miss the mess and the bother. And
that's part of having pets, so I guess I'm no longer a pet person.

Then there was that nasty episode with my daughter's flea-bag cat, but
we won't get into that again.

    
    bob, I'm begining to detect a common theme among your notes today.
    you are in serious need of the Ronco Inflatible Date.

Jack, with 1825 pounds of dog hair (1830 in leap years) you could prolly to
into the fur business.  A little leather, a little glue, and a pile of dog hair
-- presto! a mink coat.

    
    Or at least knit himself a new dog.
    
    

Battis, note his personal name.

re .4,

a snake would seem to fit the bill quite well.  I'm thinking of getting one 
when my finances recover...

re cats,

I'll just mention at this point that a colleague (who doesn't visit this 
conference that often) has the most fantastic cats in existance.  Guinness, 
who weighs in at 16 lbs (not fat, just bloody big) is unfeasibly groovy.

Chris.

    We are owned by:
    
    The Cats:
    
    Big Red aka "The Fur Toddler": a 26lb orange tabby
    Rocky aka "Chatange's Qwill Pen": A blue point Birmana (Moki's brother)
    Moki  aka "Chatange's Quick Draw McGraw": A seal point Birman
    Mips: a Classic Silver Tabby
    Belle: a Classic Silver Tabby (Mips' sister)
    
    The Ferrets:
    
    Rommel:  That crazy kissing ferret with the para-military name
    Cleo:    1.5lb of love, our "yard sale" ferret that started it all
    Jenny:   My wild party animal
    Troubles: My albino rescue ferret
    
    The Fish:
    
    Five (nearly six) tanks worth including many gouramis, tin foil
    barbs, a betta and a sacrificial tank of goldfish for two +10"
    African clown knives and a 16" blue channel catfish.
    
    MM
    

    
    and?? What is the charge to visit your zoo???
    
     :)
    

    
    {cough} I haven't had that many requests to receive .bmps of my
    precious babies.  Didn't I offer loudly enough 8^)?
    
    

Deb, if you keep bmping those babies, somebody's gonna call DSS.

    
    I would personally think that .bmps of your precious babies would
    be quite the hit, although you'd have to put the cats down first.
    
    -b

re .15,

go on, then.  Why don't you setup one of these new fangled WWW pages for them?

Chris.

    re: Andy
    
    You must play with the pets. :-) Red will even bring his
    favorite toy in for you :-).  He knows there is only
    enough space for him in the living room when he gets wound
    up........
    
    MM
    
    
    
    
    
     

The wad of hair for the 5# bag was by volume, not weight, Gerald.

Just kinda loose and fluffy.

>    Big Red aka "The Fur Toddler": a 26lb orange tabby

a 2 stone cat?!  Bloody hell, you sure it's not a bleedin lion?

Chris.

    
    re: .19
    
    >You must play with the pets.
    
    No problem there Mary-Michael... :)
    
    My B-I-L's dog recognizes me and is playing and biting even before I
    get out of the car... and this with me seeing him only once every 2-3
    weeks...
    

    re: .21
    
    Jumping on my stomach at 3 in the morning I'd be hard
    pressed to tell you.  His latest trick is waking me up
    in the middle of the night so he can drag me out to the
    kitchen to watch him eat.  We've had to child proof the
    kitchen and bathroom cabinets since, if we fail to pay
    him the appropriate amount of attention his 26lbs require,
    he opens the door, sits inside and pushes the contents out
    onto the floor. So now, if he gets bored at 3 in the morning,
    he thumps the kitchen cabinet door.  Thump, thump, thump,
    thump, thump, until I come out ready to kill him, at which
    point he goes over to the food dish and starts eating.  Hence
    the name "Fur Toddler". :-)
    
    

    
    <--- I love the way they talk.

    tosca, my sweetie darling, owns me.

        Re Deb and her .BMPs and her babies;
        
        Have I still got dibs on the pink-nosed puppy, hmm?
        
        &y
        

    
    <-- Shaddap, you!
    

    >> bob, I'm begining to detect a common theme among your notes today.
    >> you are in serious need of the Ronco Inflatible Date.
    
    

        Well, you have to admit that it was a more discreet way of
        drawing your attention to your condition than observing;
        

        
        Ayup lass; got yer baps oot for't lads then?
        
        %*>
                    

    
    You're SUCH a fibber!  I never!
    
    

    Ummm... >> pink nosed puppy (singular?)
    
    Is there a medical condition we need to know about?

        I am, Deb; it's twue! 'twas only one.
        
            

    
    Oh, I never.  I never!
    

        Well, you had had a sniff of the wine cork and it was 'tine's
        pahty, but you did. You diiid!
        
            

    
    Don't listen to him!
    

    
    
    Why not....
    
     Is this something I missed, or did I take pictures of the whole
    thing???
    

    >> <<< Note 651.33 by POWDML::HANGGELI "Little Chamber of Valentines" >>>
    
    >> Oh, I never.  I never!
    
    
    I've heard that said about you...

        Trust me, KT#1 - once seen, never forgotten. glorious!
        

	Current Menagerie:

	Dude - 165lbs Brindle Great Dane (neutered) male, 4 years old
	Cleo - 120lbs Harlequin Great Dane (spayed) female, 4 years old
	Amanda - 22lbs cream colored Lhasa Apso (spayed) female, 8 years old
	Rocky - 16lbs salt&pepper Italian Greyhound/Terrier mix (neutered)
		male, 3 years old
	Lucifer - 20lbs orange longhair (neutered) male cat, 16 years old
	Oscar - 15lbs white/brown Siamese mix (neutered) male, 6 years old
	Inky - 8 lbs black/white (neutered) male cat, 2 years old

	and our current Foster Dog...

	Rufus - 22lbs white Poodle/Dachsund/Lhasa/Bichon mix (this little
		guy has been swimming in the DEEP end of the gene pool)
		(neutered) male, 3 years old.

Jim

    re .-1
    
    My. God. What. A. Menagerie!
    
    What the hell do you shell out for dog cookies every week?
    
    As much as Bill's Liability Insurance policy I'll wager..

               <<< Note 651.40 by BSS::PROCTOR_R "Keybored..." >>>
    
>    What the hell do you shell out for dog cookies every week?
 
	About $35 a week for dog food (40 lbs) and we go through the
	large size biscuit box about every other week.

Jim

    >>  About $35 a week for dog food (40 lbs) and we go through the
    >> large size biscuit box about every other week
    
    Sheeze, and I moan about $25 40lb dog food sacks that disappear every 2
    weeks.. not to mention the outlay for doggie toys, shots, trips to the
    vet for scraped knees when the little wimps fall off their bicycles...
    
    howcum these little beggars ain't tax deductable?

We have a small pup named Andrew - part maltese terrier, part silky terrier 
(and looks suspiciously scottie around the chops)
He's black, shaggy, breaks wind a lot, has an ear-licking fetish and an 
accordian tongue.  He's very good at presenting his chest to be scratched, and 
intimidating snails.
Basically the dog resembles a hairy rat with bad personal habits.


\C

    >> Basically the dog resembles a hairy rat with bad personal habits.
    
    Might I suggest that you have a gander at SLABOUNTY::
    
    There's a strong family resemblance I'm told.

               <<< Note 651.42 by BSS::PROCTOR_R "Keybored..." >>>

>    howcum these little beggars ain't tax deductable?

	I'll give you a call as soon as the IRS comes through. ;-)

	Actually after talking to our accountant, we decided to take
	the deductions for the rescue group contributions we had made
	over the last year. I was amazed when my wife handed me the
	tally sheet, $3200! I had no idea we had spent that much, the
	only big ticket item was $1k for a Compaq laptop.

Jim

    
    	How do I end up getting dragged into these discussions?
    
    	Did someone put a "Kick Me" sign on my back?  Or maybe a "Hi,
    	I'm Jack Martin" sign?
    
    	8^)
    

    
    
    Anyone hear the story about the PBS animal guy who is accused of
    staging attacks for his specials?  Allegedly, he tied up animals with
    fishing line and then let another animal attack them and other things.
    
    
    Mike

	If that is true, someone ought to do the same to him. 

 That would be Marty Stoufer.  I enjoy watching his programs and find this
 hard to believe..but then again this is the 90's..



 Jim

         <<< Note 651.49 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "We shall behold Him!" >>>

>then again this is the 90's..


	And some media people will do anything for good visuals.

	A couple of years ago a Denver TV reporter decided to do
	a piece on the evils of using dogs in pit fights. So what
	did she do? Organized a pit fight, of course. Just show she
	could film it and tell all her viewers how terrible the people
	who organized these things really are.

 Jim

    Two white lab mice, Pinky and Brain.

    
    re: .50
    
    Real brainy types... those media people...
    
    But!! The sheep believe them so it must be all true!!!
    
    :(
    

Hey, what's wrong with tying up one animal and letting others attach? Got 
to have realism right??    :-)

    >> Hey, what's wrong with tying up one animal and letting others attach?
    
    
    You wanna look into some of the alt.s*x.bondage news groups for that...

    
    
    	I am currently owned by three kitty-monsters.  
    
    	Sasha - tabby/Maine Coon.  Momma's baby and knows it.
    		Hates Chloe.
    
    	Chloe - Blue/cream point Himalayan.  Timid, sweet, beautiful
    		cat but has kidney failure.  She's been doing ok for
    		the past 8 months or so but I don't know how much
    		longer I'll have her.
    
    	Audrey - Lynx point Siamese.  Sweet, funny, clumsy, and not
    		 the brightest bulb on the tree.  But gets away with
    		 a lot cuz she's so darned cute.

    I am happy to be owned by:
    
    Taz - looks like a beast, acts like a baby.  80lb female, German
    Sheppard/Border Collie/Lab mix.  Spayed.  Just turned two.  Good
    protection from the wacko next door, and very handy when salesmen come
    to my door.  Abandoned in a forest and rescued by me when she was 
    about 8 weeks old - almost died from Parvo virus.  I think she might
    have been abused - flinches when you try to pet her head or scratch
    behind her ears but simply *luvs* tummy time!
    
    Myrtle - the newest addition - 4.5 months old, black and white kitty
    rescued from the humane society.  She loves Taz and it's very cute to
    see the two of them share the dog pillow.  They wrestle and Taz pins
    her down - the kitten walks around covered in dog saliva.  I think
    she's going to stay tiny - still only weighs about 4 lbs. Maybe that
    will change after spaying (sometime in March)  Have been thoroughly
    amused the last couple of nights watching her stalk the spiders on my
    ceiling.  She trails them from the floor and then tries to get to the
    highest point to reach them (usually the top of the piano) and then
    mews and moans when she knows she still can't reach.
    
    Buddy - 9 year old Lab/Sheppard cross is my Dad's dog.  She is with me
    a couple of nights a week.  Has been hobbling around on a gimpy knee
    for the last month or so.  The vet has quoted $1500 for an operation
    that may or may not work. :-(  

    
    Tummy time!
    
    

I currently have only on monster in residence:

Pai Xing-Xing -- Half German Shepard, half Saint Bernard.  We call him a
Saint Germain.  He's very large and scares the piss out of strangers.  He
barks loud, deep and often.  Mostly he just wants someone to cuddle with
him.  When we got him seven years ago, he was a cute, 4 pound ball of 
black fur.  Now he's 140 pounds and still wants to be a lapdog.  When he
sheds (spring and fall), the back yard is full of fluffy brown tribbles.
Our local birds have the best lined nests you've ever seen.

We also have a varying number of unofficial house-beasts -- the mice.  We 
have an ongoing trap and release program that keeps them pretty much under
control.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    
    
    	Gizmo, the true mistress of the house is a 120lb black lab/?. She's
    getting a little old and has trouble going up and down stairs now, but
    always is ready to go for a ride (have to help her into the car). She's
    the biggest pain in the butt, always wanting to go in and out. The
    house wouldn't be same without her...
    
    ed

I have a basset hound named Sally. She is 12 years old, smells all the time, has
epilepsy, has these weird lumps all over her body, sheds hair everywhere she 
lays, won't go for a walk anymore because it hurts her feet, will eat anything
placed in front of her including rocks and tissues, will wag her tail at any
robber, murderer or rapist that would break down the door, and leaves the 
biggest fecal pile imaginable and does it three times per day.

Oh yea, I love her more than anything!

    
    
    	{snicker}
    

>>    <<< Note 651.60 by GENRAL::RALSTON "Fugitive from the law of averages" >>>

>> I have a basset hound named Sally. She is 12 years old, smells all the time, has
>> epilepsy, has these weird lumps all over her body, sheds hair everywhere she 
>> lays, won't go for a walk anymore because it hurts her feet, will eat anything
>> placed in front of her including rocks and tissues, will wag her tail at any
>> robber, murderer or rapist that would break down the door, and leaves the 
>> biggest fecal pile imaginable and does it three times per day.
    
    
    Why does this sound like a description of many of the denizens of this
    conference?

               <<< Note 651.64 by BSS::PROCTOR_R "Keybored..." >>>

>    Why does this sound like a description of many of the denizens of this
 >   conference?

	Welllllll,
		
		Shawn, anyway.

	;-)

Jim

    We spent about six months last year, without a cat or a dog, I have not
    lived that long without a pet in the house before, it was odd, to say
    the least.
    
    Now we have Bits (and don't ask about the name) he is the owner of this
    household, just an ordinary Tabby but he calls the shots.
    
    
    joan
    

    re: -2
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  Too funny.

    I don't own any

    pets

    man arrested charged and found guilty of abuse of his basset hound.
    seems he didn't like the puppy's bark so kept the dog's mouth bound
    with duct tape most of the time.
    
    i'd like to duct tape his pee-pee stick and abruptly remove it with one
    slow snap... 

 My cat attacked me last night and I have some pretty good scratches on
 my arm.  I'm sure I deserved it though.




 Jim

    
    I don't mean to rat-hole this topic, and I didn't want to start a new
    one, just to start one, but...
    
    I see some interesting names you (we) have for our pets... I was just
    curious why you named them what you did..
    
     Our two cats are named Pookie and Minnie..
    
    Alas, they were so named when we got them, so we didn't have much
    choice...
    
     I once had a cat I named "Spike" because he reminded me of the cartoon
    character dog named Spike that was always knocking around Sylvester the
    Cat...

I, and the other two people in our household, am totally owned by 8 cats, 

     Guido Tiggerini - Mafia enforcer
     Charles - New Hampshire "Life free or die" kind of fella
     Christopher - Mountain climbing, roof jumping, dare devil
     Lady Elizabeth - aristocat and general bitch
     Ninja - her name says it all
     Uma Nikko San (approx, spelling) = Fat Mr Sunshine - part time sumo
        wrestler and eating champion.
     Tetsu Cho Cho ( "        "     ) = Iron Butterfly - Maggie Thatcher
        look out.
     Cleveland (after Cleveland Amory) because he's white and arrived on the
 	door step on Christmas Day.

Ownership is made easier for the bunch (above) as my attitude toward them is 
"Give in early and save time".

It's interesting that dictators and cats don't get along very often, if 
ever.  Several dictators liked dogs but not cats.  That's not an indictment 
of dog lovers, people who love often do so across all cultures and species.  
I think it's due to the cats self centered nature, two egotists in a 
relationship don't go together.  Dogs are much more forgiving.

My cats attack me all the time too.
                                  

 *8* cats?  I love 'em, but don't know if I could handle that many.
  I only have so much skin on my arms..

    we have a female Siamese (part actually) that can be one of the
    nastiest, meanest creatures. we named her Lucy because Lucifer
    is a male name.
    
    Kela (our female dog) was named by the boys and we don't know why...
    
    Fred (our male cat) is simply Fred. Was named by one of the boys too,
    but it fits.

    
    	re: .70
    
    	poor puppy...... and I agree on the guy's punishment.  
    
    
    	re: Andy
    
    	Well let's see, Chloe was already named as I got her from
    	an ex-brother-in-law (the one who recently died from AIDS)
    	and being the prim, pristine girl she is, it fits.  =)
    	I just liked the name Sasha and Audrey was named after a
    	character on Twin Peaks.  The character was an impish sort
    	of girl, liked to get into trouble.  And Sherilynn Fenn (the 
    	actress playing her) has pale skin and dark hair.  Audrey is
    	a lynx point siamese so her fur is a light beige with dark
    	points.
    

    Two cats:
    
    Desdemona, a middle-aged blue-point Siamese, whom the term "needy" does
    not begin to describe.  A real pussycat, as the saying goes.
    
    The Cat Bastet, a young Abyssinian who, after her two humans, is the
    alpha cat.  Admired far and wide for her taste in beer, which she
    drinks delicately by dipping her hand into a glass and then licking the
    beer from the hand.

    
    	RE: Jim/April
    
    	What a couple of comedians.
    
    	8^)
    

    
    OK, here goes...my wife is a vet tech and runs an animal-adoption
    service.  Guess who gets stuck with the un-adoptable cats ?
    
    Baby Simon - Snowshoe siamese who headbutts all whom he likes.  He will
                 climb up with a paw on each shoulder and administer
                 ramming headbutts to the face.
    
    Moo Cow    - A 12 year old manx, who happily appeared one day with her
    	         4 kittens.  Really affectionate, but note the name...this
    	         is one wide track.
    
    The Beast  - Adopted, formerly owned by a marijuana dealer who met his
    	         Waterloo.  Aggressive, loves playing rough. Striped tabby/
    	         calico mix.
    
    Duff Dude  - Named after my friend Richard Duffey.  When he's happy, he
    	         curls up in a ball and sucks his tail.  A jet-black
    	         short-haired oriental.
    
    Lindsey Lou - All white, blue-eyed rambunctious wild-thing.
    
    Ripley Ree  - Afraid of men, but wild about my wife.  Striped tabby.
    
    Mojo        - Whining calico.  Lives alone in me/wife's bedroom.  I
    	          occasionally bring her downstairs in my arms and use
    	          her as a weapon. She snarls at all the other cats.
    
    Shelly      - Black/orange tortoise shell.  Cleans all things, including 
    		  rugs.
    
    Chloe       - Shelly's orange/white/black sister. Shy, reserved.
    
    Tiny Head   - Huge orange/white cat with tiny appendage for head.  
    		  Stupid cat.
    
    Miss Tortie - Tortoise shell, very fun-loving.  Loves sitting in my
                  chair in front of the fire.
    
    Harley      - This is not a cat. This is a small bear.
    
    Yoda        - Small, long-haired white pathetically sickly cat.  A real
    	          sick cat as a kitten. this is a cat we nursed back to
    	          health.  Used to look like his namesake.
    
    Junior Dude - Duff dude raised him, thus the name.  Will stare for
                  hours at non-existent things.  Definitely the cat
    	          "RainMan".
    
    Samantha Swishy - A gorgeous long-haired gray cat.  Meek as meek can
                      be. Is afraid of hiking boots. Simply calling her
    		      name in a rough way will elicit a hiss, but really
    		      a nice cat.
    
    Plus the outdoor cats...this is why I am moving to the country,

    re:.78
    
    Another Aby owner....
    
    Singin' Mazzy Star:  A non-stop ruddy Abyssinian, named after the
    cattery where she was born and the lovely musical group who I still
    listen to often.  Rules the house, but I find it easier to let her
    explore and see how boring human things are rather than attempt to say
    "no" to an Aby.
    
    Lisa

    Let see:
    
    Cleo: - came with her name, which coincidently was the
    	    name of Keith's childhood basset hound.
    	    aka Clee-Dee, Dee Dee Bear
    
    Jenny:  adopted from the shelter as "Psycho".  Jenny is
    	    name of Keith's *other* childhood basset hound. :-)
    	    aka Jenny Boo Boo, Boo Boo Girl
    
    Rommel: Needless to say poor Rommel's name has been hashed
    	    to death elsewher in here.  I didn't think a 6 year
    	    old ferret should have to change his name. 
    	    aka Rommey, Rum Rum, Rum Tum Tugger.
    
    Troubles:  Came with the name I've Got Troubles.  
    	    aka Troub Troub, The White Guy
    
    Mips:   Self evident.  Even when she sleeps, the tip of
    	    her tail moves.... :-)
    	    aka Mippies, Pippers
    
    Belle:  Very tiny and sick when we got her.  Named after a 
            lovely tiny Siamese I was saw who was the runt of
    	    the litter.
            aka Belle-Belle, Belly-Belle
    
    Big Red Came named.  It sort of fit, especially when he
    	    kept growing...:-)
    	    aka Pooper, Pooper Kitty 
    
    Rocky:  Bad eye.  Looks like he got socked in a fight :-)
    	    aka Rockers, Mr Fluffo
    
    Moki:   I have no idea.  Keith wanted to name the cat. :-)
            aka Moks, Moki Moo Moo
    
    

	Jim, what did you do that makes you think you deserved to get scratched
by your cat?


Glen

    re: .80
    
    cool.

 
I haven't the slightest idea.  I was talking on the phone and I looked out
of the corner of my eye and saw her poised and ready for attack.  There
was nothing I could do..perhaps because I was ignoring her or something.



Jim

    <-- buy a dog....a BIG dog.  8^)

             <<< Note 651.86 by ACISS2::LEECH "Dia do bheatha." >>>

>    <-- buy a dog....a BIG dog.  8^)


	In a disagreement between a cat and a dog, bet on the cat. You may not
	always win, but you will win more than you lose.


	RE: Names.

	Dude's registered name is Allison's Alexander the Great. "Little
	Dude" was his kennel name because he was the smallest of the puppies.
	He ended up the biggest. The name suits him though, he has a 
	California surfer outlook on life.

	Cleo comes straight from her registered name, One Blue-eyed Cleo.
	She was an owner surrender.

	Amanda came to us with her name, she was an owner surrender.

	Rocky was named Rockefeller (by my wife) because he's rich in 
	personality (not much on looks though).

	Rufus was named due to his breeding. Given the mix, he MUST be
	from the Deep South.

	Lucifer, I named because of his personality as a kitten.

	Oscar was one of two cats we took from the Humane Society on
	the same day. The other was named Felix (who unfortunately
	met an early end at the hands of a bobcat). Oscar was aloof,	
	can't stand to be held, very much a loner type. Felix was
	a "lap kitty". An Odd Couple if there ever was one.

	Inky is a black and white with a big black spot on this nose.
	Looks like he stuck his face in an inkpot.

Jim

    
    >he has a California surfer outlook on life.
    
    Cool!! :)
    
    Does he wear goggles when he goes for a ride??
    
    :) :)
    

 Years ago our cat and great dane would do battle.  The cat never lost.




 Jim

Years ago we had a cat that weighed about 16 pounds and had 7 toes on each
foot.  It could easily hold its own against dogs.

My current cat loves chocolate!  Found out accidentially years ago when
I brought him to my aunt's house, and during the night he got into a
candy dish full of Hershey's Kisses.  Until then I thought chocolate was
bad for cats, but it didn't seem to affect him.  He'll still "ask" for
it if he smells it, but I worry about letting him have any.

   <<< Note 651.88 by SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI "He's no lackey!! He's a toady!!" >>>

>    Does he wear goggles when he goes for a ride??
 
	Nah, he's just very laid back.

Jim

	Jim, ya gotta admit...it's kind of funny. Maybe she wanted the phone
cord? Or if it was the cordless, it was either the antenna, or YOU!!!!! :-)

> Until then I thought chocolate was bad for cats

Daughter #2 always told me that chocolate could be deadly for dogs,
but Max always liked it, anyway.

    I think we have been very lucky in the fact that we have only had three
    cats and two dogs, in all our 32 years of married life.
    (four if you  count Bits, but he is still only a baby)
    
    Mister was our first cat, named by accident, my daughter kept refering
    to him as her, my mother, kept saying, it is not a her it is a he, then
    one day said, it's a Mister, from that day on my kids called him mister.
    He was a bit of a rover and was only eight when he gave up the ghost.
    
    Our second cat was Boots, the lion of the neighborhood, small but
    feisty, she could order Toby (our German Shepherd) to stay in line with
    just a look but, she also catered to the other entities in the house,
    she would look after the Gerbils and put up with the Budgie pulling on
    her fur, she even went as far as keeping an eye on the very large spider we
    had in the house for a while. She was well into old age when she
    decided enough was enough, I will always miss her.
    
    Our two dogs.
    
    Toby was jet black, clumsy, stupid and always thought she was a lap
    dog.
    She would find a way to work her head, then her neck, then the rest of
    her body onto your lap.
    It is not comfortable with a 150lb dog sitting on you your knee but she
    never ever understood that. That's where she wanted to be and that's
    where she would go.
    She was 22 when she left us, which I have been told is very good for
    that breed, so I am asuming we did right by her.
    
    Sheba, we were not so lucky with, she was part Lab+ and I think part
    whippet, the way she moved, but she had a problem with her head, the
    vet said he thought she had a brain disorder, one day she could be
    nice, the next very nasty, altough she never bit anyone, the growl and
    the look said "stay away"
    
    Now Bits (our only pet right now) is something else, he is a big Tabby
    who will ignore every command but who can be picked up and dragged
    around the house by our Grandoughter, without laying a claw on her.
    I must say, Jessica, the young un, lives on a small farm and has been
    told time and time again that, animals are not toys but Bits almost
    seems to enjoy the attention he gets from her.
    I think If I ever handled him the way Jessica does I would look like I
    had been though three world wars.

    >>  ...in all our 32 years of married life.
    
    Jeeze! you been married longer'n I been of drinkin' age!
    
    

    
      all fixed cats :  Roscoe, male Siamese thief; Nicki, female
     Siamese sneaky troublemaker; Caspar, fatso male outdoor white
     mutt cat, routinely fooled by birdz & squirls
    
      bb

	Roxy - 45 lb red,chow-plus mutt. Was named Penny at the pound, but..
	Penny sounds way-too-sweet for this wild woman. Roxxxanne made
	more sense to me.

 	Mack-the-pug. 18 pounds of wiggly, snorting, bug-eyed silliness.
	named for his resemblance to the dog on the front of the dump
	trucks (even though they are bulldogs)

	Sassafras. aka sassy. aka Fat Pig. 18 pounds of mackeral
	tabby cat. Nammed Sassy/Sassafras when I got her because whe
	was..sassy...playful...fresh as hell. I got her fixed and
	got a dog and she began to eat..it's an emotional thing, I am
	sure. Compulsive behavior. When I come home she flops over
	on her back in a no-dog-zone and wobbled her folds of fat
	at me as if to say, "look what you've done to me...I am so
	depressed all I can do is eat"


	Screech - white and blue male parakeet. Named for
	the sound he makes when the finches are feeding in the feeder
	outside his window

    .96
    
    
    Yes :-)

    Woke up at 6AM thanks to the neighborhood felines having a battle in our
    yard.  Their high pitched cries woke my 6 month old who started crying
    too.  I did go outside and chase them away.  At least the dogs did not 
    start barking...  
    
    Pets belong in rural areas where they can disturb no one except their 
    owners.

    
    
    	Dave,
    
    	get a bb-gun and give 'em a little sting when they invade your
    yard. Guaranteed they won't come back after a few bb's...:)
    
    
    

    
    	don't look down the barrel.
    
    

    
    
    	Jim, I'm so disappointed............  =(
    

    
    
    	Wot, it's not like I kill the little buggers. ;*)
    
    	seriously, I've never shot a kitty kat in my life (even with a
    bb-gun). I had cats as a young nipper and I cared for them very much.
    Nothing like waking up with large cat draped over your neck. :)
    
    	jim
    
    

    
    
    	Ok, I forgive you then.  =)
    

    
    
    	phew! :)
    
    

    I used to use blu-tack instead of pellets or bb.  Rubber bullets for
    moggies.  It hurts less than a bb.

    I use a water pistol to chase them away from the bird feeders.
     After a couple of unexpected damping downs, I have noticed one big
    black and white Tom, going around the yard instead of through it.
    
    
    joan

    >> I use a water pistol to chase them away from the bird feeders.
    >>  After a couple of unexpected damping downs, I have noticed one big
    >> black and white Tom, going around the yard instead of through it.
    
    I use a flame thrower myself. Works good.
    
    sorta tough on the neighbor's bushes though.

    -1
    
    Not nice ;-)
    
    
    But then I did entertain the thought of a Bazooker when a neighbors
    Great Dane thought my back yard was a great place to visit.
    
    Many times:-(
    
    
    joan

    >> Not nice ;-)
    
    just kidding!
    
    The only time cats & I lock horns is when  they mess with my birds &
    squirrelz.
    
    then it's flame thrower time!
    
    

    What is the best kind of dog to get for a 2 yr old?
    
    I've heard really good things about labs, but I want to make sure that
    whatever I get is very gentle and loving and not too rambunctious(sp?).

    
    Pit bulls and dobermans.
    
    8^)
    
    

The W.C. Fields Story, starring Deb Hanggeli.

    
    That's me, sensitive to a fault 8^).
    

    serious answer: golden retriever

    
    You're no fun 8^).
    
    

    Thanks Doc, I was beginning to wonder if I was going to get one.
    
    8)

    Hoho!

Golden retrievers frequently have a thyroid problem that keeps them mellow.

    What is the best kind of dog to get for a 2 yr old?
    


    Are you saying you want to trade a 2 year old (child I assume) for
    a dog?




 Jim

    
    Q:  How do you like children?
    
    WC: They're very good with mustard.
    
    

    Jim, perish the thought!
    
    People who hate kids probably hate themselves even more.

    
    I 2nd Golden Retrievers.  We've had one since my son was 4 and
    the dog has been wonderful.  
    
    Pam

Anybody who hates little children and big dogs can't be all bad.

    My vote is for German Sheperds (sp)
    I have a 120lb male and he is excellent with small children and people
    in general.  He just turned 4 and I still think of him as my puppy and
    of course my shadow, as he will follow me everywhere he can.
    
    Dom

    German Sheperd?  They may be smart and loyal, but they rate pretty high
    on the rambunct-o-meter.  Not only that, but I've heard a lot of horror
    stories about them turning on their owners...and mauling little kids.
    
    Thanks, but no thanks.

    Get an Irish setter. Very very very calm dogs. 

    Norwegian Elkhound.  Intelligent, great with kids, little or no doggy
    odor.

    try Labrador Retrievers. They ain't called "LabraDirt Retrievers" for
    nuthing.
    
    The neighbor 1) spent 10k on back yard landscaping (get a life!)
    		 2) bought a Lab puppy
    		 3) spent  8k relandscaping
    		 4) spent  8k relandscaping
    		...

I have some friends that used to have an Irish wolfhound. Absolutely
marvelous dog around kids. Name was "Mulligan". 

    I'm going to start shopping around this weekend.  So far, we've got:
    
    Golden Retriever
    Labrador Retreiver
    Irish Setter
    Irish Wolfhound
    Norweigian Elkhound
    
    Now I'm wondering about the difference in cost.  I don't have $300 to
    drop on a pooch.

>    Now I'm wondering about the difference in cost.  I don't have $300 to
>    drop on a pooch.

Well, scratch the Irish wolfhound then, 'cause even if you manage to find
a freebie, it'll cost you more than that each month to feed it.

    re: .128
    
    My aunt and uncle had two Irish setters.  I don't recall
    them being particularly calm dogs, but they were particularly
    brain dead dogs......:-)
    
    I vote for the Norweigan Elkhound.  A boyfriend I had in college
    had one.  Beautiful, even tempered dogs (better behaved than
    the boyfriend, actually :-).  I am not a dog person as a rule,
    however, should I ever get one the Elkhound is high on the list.
    So is the Irish Wolfhound (motto: why just have a dog, when you
    can have a DOG) :-) :-)

  i'd go to a shelter and pick out a nice mutt for $30 or so.
   

    Um, I was kidding about the Irish setter. They remain puppies for the
    first 10 years, spinning-twirling-jumping-slobbering masses of red hair, 
    then they die.

>  i'd go to a shelter and pick out a nice mutt for $30 or so.

That would be my recommendation as well. That's how my last three dogs
were obtained and I haven't any complaints.

The other nice thing about getting a mutt from a shelter, is that you
can never even begin to guess what it's going to look like when it's
fully grown.

    I got a full grown, house trained border collie, all fixed for 80
    bucks. Best deal I ever made.

That's 80 Canadian bucks, which is about 6 bucks American.

 .139  yes, let's call a spayed a spayed here.

    I want a German Shepard that attacks upon verbal commands in his native 
    language.

    Mutts are cool, but that's all I've ever had...
    
    The name Norwegian Elkhound just SOUNDS expensive.  Are they 
    execeptionally big dogs?  I don't want a horse.  8)
    
    Glenn, 8P!

    Get a Yorkie. The poops are really small.

    Buck!  You sound like my ex.
    
    If he had his way, I'd have a rottweiler.

    .142
    
    Elkies are a little smaller in stature than a German Shepherd - the
    breed standard says 18-21 inches at the shoulder.  They're stocky,
    sturdy-looking dogs, much like a malemute in shape, including the
    curled tail.  The Elkie's face is broad, resembling a bear's.  Coat is
    black on the back, shaded through gray to a buff color on the belly -
    an Elkie with any white is automatically disqualified at AKC shows.
    
    You aren't going to find an Elkie for any $30, not even a pet-quality
    one, unfortunately.  You can expect to pay several hundred for one. 
    They're worth it, I think, but not if you can't cough up the cash.

    Thanks, Dick.  I'll read the classified ads here and see what they're
    going for.  I take it you own an Elkie?  Any more info would be
    appreciated...thanks.

	You might take a look at Springer Spaniels.  Ours is VERY RAMBUNTIOUS
but calms down and always put up with A LOT.  The dog had a great time 3 kids 
(3 yrs old, 5yrs old and 6ys old) during christmas vacation.  The worst the dog
did was a low growl when one of the kids (the 3 yr old) was sitting on the dogs
belly.  At the begining of this vacation, the 3 yr old was frighted badly by
dogs.  At the end of the vacation, the 3 year old cried for me to leave the dog. 
I.E. the dog loved the kids and the kids loved the dog. 

    Git along little doggie.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Buy a Dachshund.
    

    Samopyeds are not really brainy, but their disposition around children
    can't be matched.  However see a certified breeder as they have hip and
    heart problems sometimes.

    .146
    
    No, 'pril, I don't own an Elkie.  My mother owned them for years, and I
    came to appreciate them through long acquaintance.

    Anne Elk?

Our neighbors just bought two male German Shepherds. Seems he always wanted a
dog. He must have always wanted somone else's dog, cuz she takes care of them
about 95% of the time.

Oh yah, one of them (the dogs) is aggressive and has been challenging the
other neighbor's Doberman, who was the unquestioned king of the neighborhood
the last few years. Gonna be a noisy summer. Probably a funny one, too, if no
one gets mauled.

    The best Elkie to be friendly with would be Elke Sommer.

She must be pretty long in the tooth by now.

    Prolly right.  Sigh, nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

Another vote for mutts. They more often lack the genetic defects found in
so many purebreds - thick skiinned, rude health. And there are so many of them
that need homes. You don't know what gratitude, loyalty and fierce bonding is
until you rescue a dog from death row.

We have six - all of them found hounds, tho one is an English setter (from
the pound). This is one nice breed - the hunting instinct is no rumor. Some
think they're not smart, but no. He knows exactly what he's doing at all times,
and exactly why he's doing it. Affectionate too. Ours is the field variety
however (broad head), not the show type.

In my experience, Irish setters are not so cool. The ones I've known have all
been hyper, and so stupid they couldn't find the end of the leash. I've heard
that's because the show breeders select for the tiny cranium.

The Irish wolfhounds I've known varied a bit. Some were wonderful, some very 
standoffish. The problem is, with their heart problems, they only average
about 6 years.

Labs are great. An interesting tidbit - I had a friend who bred labs and saint
bernards. As big as the SB's were, his food bill was less  than for the labs.
It seems labs have very inefficient digestion. They'll eat until they bloat
themselves sick, and I can attest to the fact that a lot of it ends up as
methane. 

    Also, if you aren't concerned about having a puppy, many
    breeders will place older purebred dogs in good home, often
    only asking the price of a neuter/spay.  Since everybody usually
    wants a puppy, these dogs are just as much in need of a loving
    home.
    
    

re .156:

I tend to agree.  My old neighbor's Irish Setter was about as dumb as a rock.

    Actually I don't want to have to train a puppy not to poop and pee on
    the floor.  No way.  Huh-uh.

    
    An adult dog would be key, then.
    

    But puppies are so cuuuuute.

    
    They don't stay puppies for very long...
    
    Ya can't have your cake and eat it too!!!
    

    
    Get a cat.
    
    

    Well I wished I could have seen Domino as a puppy, but I'll tell ya, I
    didn't miss not having to train him. Thing with him is, he's full
    grown, but he's still a Dominut!

I've a friend here at DIGITAL who's rescued two greyhounds. You get a
fully grown, well mannered dog which normally hasn't a clue about living
in a house. It's somewhat challenging to housetrain a four year old dog,
he tells me. But, humorous, nonetheless, if you have plenty of patience.

   <<< Note 651.132 by SCASS1::BARBER_A "DingaDingDangMyDangaLongLingLong" >>>

>    Now I'm wondering about the difference in cost.  I don't have $300 to
>    drop on a pooch.

	I might suggest that you don't buy a dog. The initial purchase
	price is only the beginning. Vet bills, proper food, etc. will
	eat up more than $300 a year without even breaking a sweat.

	If you're not ready for the financial committment it's best
	for you AND for the dog that you wait.

Jim

                     <<< Note 651.141 by POWDML::BUCKLEY >>>

>    I want a German Shepard that attacks upon verbal commands in his native 
>    language.

	How well do you bark???

	;-)

Jim

Our family had a male dalmation that was fantastic with kids. We got the
dog when my youngest brother was still a baby and he (the dog) lived for 18 
years. Easy to train, great disposition, big enough to scare strangers.
I don't remember spending any money at all at the vets with the exception of 
the annual shots and the nip and tuck operation.  What a cool dog... I
still miss him...

    Dalmations are very rambunctious.  I have a friend who owns one and
    they have to shock him to get him to behave.  He doesn't know his own
    strength and can easily knock people down.  His tail never stops
    wagging and you can't leave anything on the table without it being
    broken or spilled.  And he's incredibly stupid.
    
    No thanks.   

    nix on the dalmation idea.

    get a toy fox terrier.  they're wickit smaht, small,
    and lovable.

I guess it's all in the training - ours was very well behaved with very 
little effort on our part (after the initial 6 months)

No matter which breed you decide on, if you don't take the time and effort 
to train the dog while it's young, you're asking for trouble.  I know this 
from first hand experience - I did *not* spend as much time with Taz as I 
should have until she had already developed some bad habits and it has
taken much more effort to break her of these things now then it would have 
if I had made the effort when she was a pup.

Good luck - it's worth it IMHO - every kid should have a dog!

    
    Chris, how's Myrtle!?
    

    
    Based on some responses and yours too, may I suggest that you hold off
    having a pet, especially a dog, until a) the kid is older and
    b) you are ready, timewise that is.
    
    You asked for a non-rambunctious breed...well there are many, but is
    you kid non-rambunctious too? I have seen too many cases where the
    to-be owners are simply not ready to commit the time and effort to
    the relationship which predictably ended with an unhappy, oft-times
    neglected pet. In my books there is no such thing as a bad pet.
    
    So please reconsider. However if you and the 2 yr-old are ready, then
    may I second the other suggestions that rescue one from a local
    animal shelter instead of shelling out $$$$ for a pure bred.
    
    

    
    
    Count me in ....
    I am owned by a 3 year old grey-white American shorthair, rescued from
    a Hopkinton shelter. Wellington, or Wellie-the-cat, is a bona fide
    sailor having sailed with us for over 1000 miles last yr from S
    Francisco to Ensenada and back.
    
    He likes to ride in the car and van; actually likes to stand on the
    hood while the car is driven in the parking lot (slowly of course!).
    An accomplished hunter, loves to climb up and down trees, stalks
    dogs and joggers and the best part, he sleeps with me cheek-to-cheek
    every night!!!
    
    Ummm, maybe I should go get him a soc. sec. number since he is my son!
    

>>    Chris, how's Myrtle!?

Much easier to train than Taz, that's for damn sure!  8^)

                     <<< Note 651.174 by MARIN::WANNOOR >>>

>    may I second the other suggestions that rescue one from a local
>    animal shelter instead of shelling out $$$$ for a pure bred.
 
	Please note that just about every area of the country there
	are Breed Rescue groups. You can rescue a purebred dog, that's
	how we got our first Dane.

Jim
   
    

>  how we got our first Dane.
                  ^^^^^
You've had many Great Danes?

Everything I've heard about them indicates they have the same weak heart/short
life as Irish Wolfhounds, other BIG dogs, etc.

I also heard a story about someone who ran his dane frequently via bicycle
as a means to keep the dog's heart in shape, and the dog lived to be 17.
Antecdotal to be sure, but I'm curious as to what your experience in terms of
Dane lifespan has been.

    
    
    Yeah... I can just see Jim Percival with his Great Dane
    
    Okay, dog...
    
    I'm gonna fire this .22 pistol down range... For your exercise, I want
    you to chase and retrieve the slug...
    
     ready???
    
    
     BANG!!!!!!!!!
    

A great Dane wouldn't look so big, next to Big Jim P.

 <<< Note 651.178 by DECWET::LOWE "Bruce Lowe, DECwest Eng.,  DTN 548-8910" >>>

>You've had many Great Danes?

	Two.

>Everything I've heard about them indicates they have the same weak heart/short
>life as Irish Wolfhounds, other BIG dogs, etc.

	Not so much weak hearts, but short lifespans. Actually Dobermans
	are the breed most affected by heart trouble, but that's a genetic
	defect that responsible breeders are trying to weed out. Unfortunately,
	the backyard puppy mill breeders don't care. So the problem persists. 

>Antecdotal to be sure, but I'm curious as to what your experience in terms of
>Dane lifespan has been.

	Both of ours are 4 1/2. In general the "standard" answer when asked 
	about how long they live is 10 years. Frequent execersize IS 
	important for any dog to remain healthy, but it is more vital
	with the large breeds sionce their lifespans are relatively  short
	to begin with.

Jim

      <<< Note 651.179 by SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI "Lord of the Turnip Truck" >>>

>    I'm gonna fire this .22 pistol down range...

	Puuuulllease!!!!! .45!

> For your exercise, I want
>    you to chase and retrieve the slug...
 
	Actually, for the excersize, I expect him to catch it before it
	reaches the target.

	;-)

Jim

   <<< Note 651.180 by GENRAL::RALSTON "Fugitive from the law of averages" >>>

>A great Dane wouldn't look so big, next to Big Jim P.

	I wanted a dog that I didn't have to bend over to pet.

	;-)

Jim

	>I wanted a dog that I didn't have to bend over to pet.

I'm sorry you couldn't find one.

	;-)

    I would like to second the suggestions that you re-think getting
    a puppy for a 2 year old.  No matter what the breed, a puppy can
    be injured by the 2 year old; then if the pup nips the little nipper
    the dog usually gets the boot!!  If you feel you must get a dog now,
    please go for one of the larger breeds.  I know Yorkies and other
    small dogs are cute (I'm owned by 4 poodles), but the smaller dogs
    are at greatest risk around a child that young.  The breeder who
    sold me my last 2 toys refuses to allow any of her dogs to go into
    a household with children under the age of 6.  You might want to
    check out the CANINE notes file on HUMANE, lots of good info there.
    
    My pack:
    
    Buffy - chocolate toy, age unknown (think btwn 8 and 11) rescued when
    		co-worker was about to put her to sleep because she 
    		wasn't totally housebroken after 2 weeks.  I think I'm 
    		her 5th or 6th owner (passed around in co-worker's family).
    		She spent most of her adult life on a farm in New Hamster,
    		best buds were a GSD and a beagle.  The three had the run of
    		the farm and slept outside in the barn.  Her buddies have
    		given her a slight identity problem, she is the ONLY 
    		poodle I've had that does not yip.  She howls like the
    		beagle ;-)  She truely the mellowest and most loving dog
    		in the house.  All she needs is my knee to rest her head on
    		(although she also loves sleeping on the cervical pillow
    		ordered by my physical therapist) :-)
    
    Buttons	7 year old white (alleged) toy poodle.  Product of Mom/Pop
    		breeders; healthy and funny, but at 16lbs a toy poodle
    		she is NOT!!  Was household bully until Peanut arrived.
    
    Bonkers	First show quality 7 lb toy.  Champagne colored, does amazing
    		Marilyn Monroe imitation.  Original name was Talliesin
    		Morgan Reese; call name was to be either Tally or Morgan,
    		that fact that she is now Bonkers speaks volumes about
    		her personality ;-)  5 years old.
    
    Peanut	3.5 lb champagne colored teacup; 1/2 sister to Bonkers;
    	        now 1 1/2 years old, there is serious concern that she
    		might not live to see her 2nd birthday ;-)  She brings
    		unbelievable havoc into the lives of the above 3 dogs;
    		totally fearless.  Particularly funny when she stands
    		at the front door in her "attack" mode.  I must be
    		especially careful not to laugh at her (poodles are like
    		kids, you can't let them see you laugh or they will con-
    		tinue with behavior that might be really funny and also
    		very unappropriate).
    
    I never thought I'd own a poodle, thought they were too nervous and
    high-strung.  I've had 6 poodles total, none fell into nervous/high
    strung category (high energy yes, not same as high strung).  Really
    neat dogs if you don't ruin them with silly foo foo hair cuts, nail
    polish and other such nonsense.  My dogs typically have modified
    retriever clip that I allow to grow out in winter (they tend to look
    like J. Hendrix with a BAD 'fro).
    
    Wound up with first 2 poodles when ex found out that the breed doesn't
    shed (ex must have genes from Felix Unger's gene pool).  Vet says
    poodles hair/coat is different than most breeds and make them good
    candidates for people with allergies also.
    
    Running on too long here, remind me to tell you about the time my
    first poodle (Muffin) expressed her displeasure at my going back to
    work full-time by pooping in my favorite pair of penny loafers (shoes
    WERE in my closet at the time).
    
    

   <<< Note 651.184 by GENRAL::RALSTON "Fugitive from the law of averages" >>>


>I'm sorry you couldn't find one.

	Well, Dude stands 36" at the shoulder, he head tops out at a little
	over 4 feet off the ground (when I put him in a "show stand"). I
	can reach that without too much trouble.

	;-)

Jim

Dude!  I love it.

    re: .186
    
    Jim,
    
    
    Do you use a western, or english saddle on him????
    
    
     :)
    

 Our great dane was excellent with my son Chris when he was a toddler.  He'd\
 (Chris) would play around in her food dish and the dog would sit patiently
 til he was done, then resume wolfing down his meal.  Never did she hurt
 one of the kids.


 Jim

        <<< Note 651.185 by DECLNE::REESE "My REALITY check bounced" >>>

>    Wound up with first 2 poodles when ex found out that the breed doesn't
>    shed (ex must have genes from Felix Unger's gene pool).

	Note that poodles do shed, VERY little but there is some.

	Often folks come up to our booth asking for poodles because they
	"don't shed", so we have to tell them the truth. Of course we also
	ask if they've ever gotten up in tthe morning and found a few 
	hairs on the pillow (we point out that even people shed).

Jim

    
    I am boarding a kitty for a month while her auntie is on vacation.  Her
    name is "Zeckendorf" and she wears a rhinestone studded collar.
    
    She appears to be a nocturnal creature.  For the last week or so she's
    woken me up repeatedly in the middle of the night by pressing my nose
    with her paw.  Press, press, press.  Purr, purr.
    
    When that fails to get me up and playing, she licks my chin.  Rasp,
    rasp, rasp.
    
    I've taken to sleeping with a pillow over my head 8^).
    
    
    
     
               

 My cat licks my chin and chews on my moustache.  She also acts like a dog
 sometimes and brings on of her toys to me and waits for me to throw it
 so she can "fetch" it.




Jim

      <<< Note 651.188 by SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI "Lord of the Turnip Truck" >>>

>    Do you use a western, or english saddle on him????
 
	AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

	I bet you would believe it if I told you this was not the first
	time that question had been asked.

	;-)

Jim

        <<< Note 651.189 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "We shall behold Him!" >>>


> Our great dane was excellent with my son Chris when he was a toddler.  He'd\
> (Chris) would play around in her food dish and the dog would sit patiently
> til he was done, then resume wolfing down his meal.  Never did she hurt
> one of the kids.

	For all their size and fierce look (with cropped ears), Danes are
	one of the most gentle of the Giant breeds. The only real risk
	is them bumping into you. I've had Dude swing around suddenly
	and pop me on my bad knee with his rump. Generally I only
	limp for a couple of days afterward.

	As long as we are on Dane lore.......

	Danes are INDOOR dogs. They overheat easily and must be kept out
	of direct sun for extended periods. Plus they do not have a coat
	that will keep them warm in cold weather.

	They can not be fed wth their bowl on the floor. You have to have
	it raised at least 18 to 20 inches off the ground. Same goes for 
	their water dish. They are subject to "bloat" (as are most of the
	Giants) and can die in just a few hours if this condition is left
	untreated. First aid consists of pushing a section of hose (at least
	4 feet of hose) down into their stomach to relieve the gas pressure.
	You should not "free feed" Danes. And you should spilt their food
	intake into breakfast and dinner, rather than just one big meal.
	This also helps prevent bloat.

	All in all, they are terrific pets, and of course, they tend to draw
	admiring comments. I always try to take one of them down to the 
	Rescue booth because they draw a crowd, then we can pelt the
	onlookers with our propaganda. ;-)

 Jim

    Percival,
    
    Guess I should have clarified that they don't shed in the classic
    sense, i.e. you get up from chair/couch and there are a bazillion
    hairs sticking to your clothing. You're correct in saying poodles
    do re-cycle their coats over time.
    
    I know it's time for the groomer when I start finding entire ringlets
    or curls on the carpet :-)  Also, there is something about the texture
    of their coats that makes them appealing to families with any members
    who suffer with allergies.  I've had Boston Bull Terriors, a Pomer-
    anian, Dalmation and megamutts; all these breeds seem to have a coarse
    type of coat where individual hairs shed.
    
    My hat is off to you; anybody who owns as many animals as you do
    can't be all bad ;-)  The woman who sold me my first poodle bred
    Harlequin Great Danes......awesome animals that also made awesome
    piles of poop ;-)  Do you use a bulldozer to pick up your yard? :-)
    

        <<< Note 651.195 by DECLNE::REESE "My REALITY check bounced" >>>
>                  -< My BIG DOG  dream is a standard poodle >-

	Standards are OK if you like MEDIUM sized dogs. ;-)

>Also, there is something about the texture
>    of their coats that makes them appealing to families with any members
>    who suffer with allergies.  I've had Boston Bull Terriors, a Pomer-
>    anian, Dalmation and megamutts; all these breeds seem to have a coarse
>    type of coat where individual hairs shed.
 
	They have very little dander (ie. they shed very little skin).
	Bichons fit this category as well.

>The woman who sold me my first poodle bred
>    Harlequin Great Danes

	Our female is a Harl. She's on the small side (not quite 30 inches
	and just at 120 lbs), but really big ones are VERY distinctive.

>......awesome animals that also made awesome
>    piles of poop ;-)  Do you use a bulldozer to pick up your yard? :-)
 
	Economy size pooper scooper. Once a week I fill 2 or 3 "lawn/leaf"
	sized garbage bags.

Jim
   

   <<< Note 651.187 by GENRAL::RALSTON "Fugitive from the law of averages" >>>

>Dude!  I love it.

	AS I think I mentioned before, it suits him. Even for a Dane, Dude
	is VERY laid back.

Jim

    
    >Economy size pooper scooper. Once a week I fill 2 or 3 "lawn/leaf"
    >sized garbage bags.
    
    
    {boggle}
    

  <<< Note 651.198 by POWDML::HANGGELI "Little Chamber of The Counter King" >>>

    
>    >Economy size pooper scooper. Once a week I fill 2 or 3 "lawn/leaf"
>    >sized garbage bags.
    
    
>    {boggle}
 
	A clarification. "Fill" means getting to the point that I don't
	want to carry more weight. They are actually only about half
	full (cubic).
   
Jim

    Canine Snarf!!!

           <<< BACK40::BACK40$DKA500:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>
    
    
                          -< Soapbox.  Just Soapbox. >-
================================================================================
Note 651.127          People who are owned by pets/animals            127 of 200
SCASS1::BARBER_A "DingaDingDangMyDangaLongLingLong"   5 lines  22-FEB-1996 10:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    German Sheperd?  They may be smart and loyal, but they rate pretty high
    on the rambunct-o-meter.  Not only that, but I've heard a lot of horror
    stories about them turning on their owners...and mauling little kids.
    
    Thanks, but no thanks.
    
    
    Gee, I guess that must be why they are the most favored for police
    training dogs, protection and seeing eye dogs ect...  I'm sure some
    dogs of any breed that is abused could turn on anyone...
    
    Dom

>	Danes are INDOOR dogs. They overheat easily and must be kept out
>	of direct sun for extended periods. Plus they do not have a coat
>	that will keep them warm in cold weather.


        Hmm...that explains why Babe (our dane) somehow managed to get
        in the house through a dog door when we lived in Phoenix (door suffered
        significant damage in the process) and left her out one day.

 

 
  Jim

    Do Great Danes for example mate with poodles or are dogs prone to mate
    with their own species?

    There is more than one species of dog? 

    
    
    Only you, Jack.... only you...
    
    Listen... if Jim Percival said it can't even reach the dogfood/water at
    floor level, what makes you think it can reach a poodle???
    

    On-ly youuuuuuuuuuuu...can make...a this world seem riiiight......
    
    Actually, the question was a curiosity question.  Obviously there is
    cross breeding and all that.  I was wondering if dogs are more inclined
    to mate with dogs of similar size or does it vary?
    
    Species?  I meant to say ethnic background.  Sorry!

    .201 Dom,
    
    No, I have never owned a German Sheperd.  Just because they are good
    seeing eye/police dogs doesn't mean I want one for my 2 yr old.
    
    In fact, I think I'll just get a gerbil.

    Tiny turtles make good pets for young children (although you have
    to make sure they remember to feed them.)
    
    They look cute in their little bowls and they crawl, but don't bite.

        <<< Note 651.206 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "Madison...5'2'' 95 lbs." >>>

>    Actually, the question was a curiosity question.  Obviously there is
>    cross breeding and all that.  I was wondering if dogs are more inclined
>    to mate with dogs of similar size or does it vary?
 
	A male dog subjected to the aroma of a female dog in heat is
	EXTREMLY non-discriminatory. In this regard, they are much 
	like teenage male humans. ;-)

	I expect that are certain mixes that will never be seen due to
	certain laws of physics (teacup poodle/Dane comes to mind) but
	but some of the crosses I've seen at the shelter leave you
	scratching your head in wonder.

Jim

    I'm not too hip on picking up dog poop all day anyway.

re .208:

>    [Turtles] look cute in their little bowls and they crawl, but don't bite.

That can be remedied.  Get snapping turtles.

    
    Is it still legal to sell those little tiny turtles?
    

    Some friends of mine had a young female Lab go in heat for the
    first time, and they came home one day to find a dozen dogs working
    together as a construction crew to tunnel under a brick wall (and
    find any other means possible to make the acquaintance of their
    lovely young dog.)

    They said that the dogs were ALL mixes (and not even fighting each
    other.)

    They kept a closer eye on her after that.  (The uninvited male dogs 
    did not ever get to her.)

    RE: .212
    
    > Is it still legal to sell those little tiny turtles?
    
    Oh, maybe it isn't.
    
    The big problem (as I understood it) was that little kids would
    forget to feed these little moving toys and they would die.
    
    Perhaps they are illegal now.

    This pet topic reminds me of an old note that RAH wrote once (about
    how he had mice in his house in California.)
    
    He said he was 'interviewing cats'.  :)
    
    (I got such a kick out of that.  I'd love to have heard his interview
    questions.  "So, what would you like to see yourself doing in, say,
    five years?  Catching dogs and breaking their little necks, too?  Ok.")

	Dogs are a great deal like teenage males...

	Any port in the storm.



	billl

    Ummmm Jack,
    
    The odds of a poodle mating with a great dane are slim to none.
    Think about it....if the dane is a female, how in the heck could
    the male poodle reach her (no matter how randy he gets). ;-) Please
    don't tell me you would hold a step ladder to assist ;-)
    
    If a male dane got at a female poodle, a vet would have to abort
    the litter is she got pregnant. Toy poodles are about the size of
    a field mouse at birth (assuming the sire is a poodle).  If the
    sire was a dane the pups would simply be too large for the female
    to make it too far into the pregnancy....the female poodle would die
    otherwise.
    
    

    
    	My dog and the dog next door were fond of the missionary position.
    
    	No, I'm not kidding, and I knew you'd want to know.
    

    
    Ah yes, Friday night notes after the mods have all gone home 8^).
    
    

	:-)

    
    	Schaaaawing!!
    

| <<< Note 651.221 by SCASS1::BARBER_A "DingaDingDangMyDangaLongLingLong" >>>

| I prefer doggie.

	If only you were a man.... :-)

	Hee hee hee.....

    Glen, what are you doing, trying to frame me?
    
    8)

what makes you think that?

    
    
    	Nicest "people" dog I've ever met was a rotweiler/dobberman pincher
    mix. Calm, didn't jump up, loved kids and other people, etc. Great
    animal.
    
    jim
    
    p.s. - my parents have owned German Shepherds for many years and we've
    never had one turn on us or anyone else. It's how you raise the dog,
    not what breed it is.

           <<< Note 651.228 by SUBPAC::SADIN "Freedom isn't free." >>>

>It's how you raise the dog,
>    not what breed it is.

	For the most part this is true. Unfortunately some breeds started 
	getting a reputation for meaness and some idiot breeders started
	breeding for aggressive behavior.

	Well-bred Rotties, AmStaffs, Dobies are excellent family pets,
	but those that have been produced by puppy mill breeders can,
	and often are, a danger to the families that adopt them. Not to
	mention the dodos that breed "wolf-hybrids".

Jim

    
      The little green turtles were panned.  They carry ear infections
     to small humans.  The larger painted turtles are OK, but you need
     a specially set up aquarium or a pond outside.
    
      Dogs (and almost all other mammals) are NOT like humans, because
     humans are nearly unique in having secret estrus - neither the
     male or female human knows when she is ovulating.  Humans are also
     on the very low end of the mammal scale in olfactory sense.  The
     purpose and consequences of secret estrus is a running source of
     fringe biological theories - see, for example, "The Naked Ape",
     "The Aquatic Ape", and "The Killer Ape", all published the last
     couple of decades.  The simple answer is, we don't know why.  It is
     one reason that human females are characterized as creatures of
     deceit.
    
      Domestic dogs are all mostly the same species, but hybrids have been
     created, usually sterile, with wolves, coyotes, and African wild
     dogs - all different species.
    
      bb

    
    	true, you can get a bad mix. One needs to be a well informed buyer
    when looking for a good dog for a family.
    
    
    jim

 My cat seems to know just when I'm going to sit in my spot on the couch.  
 Last night I was in the kitchen (getting a bowl of cherrios) and I 
 started to walk back to the living room.   As I neared the couch,
 the cat (who was on the other side of the couch) dashed over to  
 my spot, sat down and looked at me as if to say "I got here first".  Of
 course any attempt to remove her resulted in numerous scratches and
 bites.




 Jim

    
    
    re: snapping turtles...
    
    We've got one here at MKO in a fish tank...
    
    Feel free to stop by and take a look...
    
    MKO1-1/B9
    

> any attempt to remove her resulted in numerous scratches and bites.

????

Sounds like my daughter's cat, Jim. Do you put up with that?

>Sounds like my daughter's cat, Jim. Do you put up with that?


  I was embellishing the story a bit, Jack.  She puts up a fuss when I
 move her, but not much..and I'm sure the skin will grow back on my arm
 eventually ;-)




 Jim

    I don't know if any-one else has seen HUMANE::CANINE 958.11 yet, it
    fits in with the "being owned by" part of this note very well.
    
    I know I can relate to it :)
    
    
    joan

    Moki runs in and sits on the couch when Keith turns on
    the TV.  Mips occasionally sits in front of the tv and
    watches it for up to a half hour at a time :-) 
    
    With the nice weather returning, Red has re-gained his
    "Hey, I used to be an outdoor cat!" instinct.  This consists
    of:  
    	1.) jump on Mom's stomach at 4:30 AM to wake her up.
    	    Purr constantly.
        2.) get deposited ungraciously on the floor at 4:31 AM
    	3.) return at 4:32 AM, purring constantly
        4.) On the floor at 4:33 AM, usually followed by several
            exepletives
        5.) Re-think strategy
        6.) jump on Mom's pillow at 4:45 AM, ostentisbly to look at 
            something out the window.  Place back feet on Mom's
            face.  Purr constantly.  Jump when she reaches for
            you.  Land on Mom's stomach.  Purr constantly. Run
            out of room.
         7.)Let Mom get back to sleep.  At 5:00 AM, return.
    	    Jump on dresser, knock things off.  Purr constantly.
    	    Annoy other cats in bedroom.  Keep looking back to
            see if Mom is watching.  Purr constantly.  When
            Mom finally gets up to chase you out of the room,
            run into kitchen and stand at door.  Purr constantly.
            Look pleadingly.  Even if you don't get out, you get
    	    10 minutes of uninterrupted cuddles. Purr constantly.
         8.)Repeat daily as needed.
    
    

    Aww, I miss my kitty.  She er, ran away on Halloween last year.  8(

Oh dear.  A cat that disappears on Halloween, especially a black cat, is
quite likely to have suffered an unpleasant death at the hand of weirdos.

    
    	Well, maybe it was kidnapped by weirdos and forced into a life
    	of crime, like maybe robbing banks or something.
    
    	It'll escape, and it'll be back, I'll bet.
    

    Maybe God came back from the year 2525 to dispatch the kitty for some
    small though important sin that will happen or is happening or has
    happened in the future.  That's how the smite-o-saurs died you know.  

    She was a white persian, declawed, and had never been outside before. 
    The townhomes we lived in were all identical, like a huge labyrinth. 
    It would have been impossible for her to find her way home.  
    
    And now I live too far away.  I'll never see my Sheba again.  8,(
    
    I loved that cat so much.

    
    	Please don't tell me you named her Sheba.
    
    	If so, I might suspect you let her go on purpose just so you
    	could repeatedly shout for her return.
    

    
    
    	not funny Shawn.
    
    	sorry to hear that 'pril.
    

    Well, I did plenty of shouting.  But no Sheba... I will think long and
    hard before getting another cat.  You love them so much and then they
    die or run away.  Is it worth it?
    
    This cat had attitude too.  8)  

   <<< Note 651.246 by SCASS1::BARBER_A "Smelly cat, it's not your fault" >>>

>You love them so much and then they
>    die or run away.  Is it worth it?
 
	Each must decide. I can't imagine a house without pets and even
	though we have lost a few over the years, we still seem to keep
	replacing them.

Jim

    Right on Jim.  My 8 kitties give me a reason to get up in the morning.
    They even give me a reason to get up in the morning even when I don't
    HAVE to get up in the morning.
    
    Wouldn't be without them.

re .248:

To empty the litter box?

    re 249:
    
    Not quite.  Cats have no concept of Saturdays or Sundays, they also
    consider a full bladder a useful tool in waking up humans.
    
    The kitty boxes come later.
    

   Yesterday's Rose is Rose was rather humorous.
kb

    Was that the one where kitty climbed on Rose' lap and rolled over to 
    have it's tummy rubbed?  If it was, then you're right, it was.

    > If it was, then you're right, it was.
    
    I think, therefore I am?

    > He mentioned something to the effect that she was
    > reading very slowly.  Little kitty was perched in the middle of her
    > book.
    
    	{smack!} {thud!} 
    
    problem solved.

	A thing to like today as well, but more appropriate here.

	Colorado Springs All Breed Rescue (Inc.) is now recognized
	by the IRS as a publicly funded non profit charitable 
	organization.

	Only took 6 months and a couple of small trees worth of paperwork.

Jim

	PS Andy, I'll make sure Kat gets a receipt out to you this week.

    
    
    	Jim, tell us more about the CSABR (inc.)....
    
    
    

           <<< Note 651.257 by SUBPAC::SADIN "Freedom isn't free." >>>

>    	Jim, tell us more about the CSABR (inc.)....

	About 3 1/2 years ago we responded to an ad in the paper placed
	by the local Great Dane Rescue group. They had a pair of Harlequin
	Danes that they were trying to place. We ended up adopting the 
	female (Cleopatra) and got to know the folks in the Dane club.
	We got involved with Dane Rescue, fostering, doing home visits,
	etc.

	Kat also took over the maintenance of the All Breed Rescue List,
	names and phone numbers of the breed specific rescue groups for
	southern Colorado.

	About 2 1/2 years ago the president of the Dane club asked if Kat
	would agree to be interviewed by the local paper to push dog
	rescue over the purchase of "Christmas puppies". The reporter asked
	"How can people reach you for more info?". I set up voicemail on the 
	2nd phone line so we could refer people to the various rescue groups.

	Kat started working with the local Humane Society so that rescue 
	groups could adopt dogs from them and put them in foster homes.
	Eventually she was doing weekly shelter checks looking for pure
	breds and calling the breed rescue people to come and get them.

	That led to her and a couple of friends fostering a few mixed breeds
	that the breed rescue folks couldn't take. Pretty soon she was 
	working closely with the folks at the Humane Society working on the
	dogs that were on the "short timer list"(average stay at the HS
	is 7 days before a dog is put down).

	She started recruiting more fosters, found a person that was an
	expert in dog training and started working with some of the local
	vets.

	We now have 9 fosters, a marketing director, a education director,
	several people handling the phone calls, an adoption coordinator
	and several adoption counselors. Kat just interviewed a woman
	who wants to volunteer as our video coordinator so we can develop
	ads for the local cable TV.

	As this all grew I suggested Kat file for non-profit status, I didn't
	wnat any confusion between our personal income and the money that
	was flowing through the rescue work. She figured as long as she was
	filing the paperwork she'd go for the "full boat" as a non-profit
	charity.

	What we do is go to the HS three times per week (we've have two 
	people helping out with this now), get a printout of their
	"inventory" and try to pick dogs from the short list that we think
	are adoptable if they only had a bit more time. We also take
	owner surrenders when we can and have just started a program
	called "assisted adoptions" where we help folks that need to
	surrender their dog, but aren't in a real time crunch. Dogs are
	taken into foster (except the assisted adoptions) and are evaluated
	for temperment, given basic obedience and housebreaking (if req'd).
	They get a vet check, are spayed or neutered and receive all their
	shots. They stay with the foster family for a minimum of two weeks
	before they are made available for adoption. Then we call people
	from our "want list" (I want such and such dog) and try to match
	them up (one of our volunteers is a code warrior and now has this
	all on database). We then have the prospective family visit the dog
	in the home envirionment fill out a questionaire and if they like
	the dog we arrange a home vist to check out their place. If everything
	works out, we deliver the dog. We offer follow up with our education
	people if needed. Except for fostering we do the same for the
	assisted adoptions.

	We charge $75 for a fostered adoption and $25 for an assisted
	adoption. we charge $45 for an owner surrender (to the owner). We 
	have to cover the expenses that we pay to the HS (they don't give 
	us a break on their fees) and the costs associated with the fosters. 	
	Special medical problems (we've had dogs with hernias, parvo, kennel
	cough, etc.) requiring additional vet visits also have to be covered 
	(thank God the vets DO give us a break, several working for 50% of 
	the normal fee).

	We still work with the breed specific groups refering them to dogs that
	are at the HS or from owner surrenders. We also refer people to the
	HS if we know about a dog that they have that might fit the bill.

	Tally in the last year, about 100 dogs through our foster network, 
	another 50 - 75 picked up by breed rescue groups and We don't know
	how many from HS refferals. A drop in the bucket compared to the
	8 or 9 thousand dogs that the HS will destroy this year, but we do 
	what we can.

	At moment, we are looking for more foster homes, office equipment
	(a copier mostly), PCs for the folks that don't have them and
	money.

	We'll be setting up a web site in the near future (need someone who
	knows how to do this as well).

	That's CSABR (inc.) in a nutshell.

Jim

    
    
    	great job Jim! I'm impressed.
    
    

    
    	All that hard work, and you couldn't even come up with a pron-
    	ounceable acronym for your shelter?
    
    	Shame.  8^)
    

    
    
    	That's a wonderful thing you're doing Jim..........
    

   <<< Note 651.260 by BUSY::SLABOUNTY "Don't like my p_n? 1-800-328-7448" >>>

>    	All that hard work, and you couldn't even come up with a pron-
>    	ounceable acronym for your shelter?
 
	Just for clarity it's not really a "shelter", it's a few foster
	homes and a lot of refferal work.

	Besides "SEE ESS A BEE R" does roll of the tongue.

	;-)
Jim

        <<< Note 651.261 by DECWIN::JUDY "That's *Ms. Bitch* to you!" >>>

    
>    	That's a wonderful thing you're doing Jim..........
 
	As mentioned, I'm mostly grunt labor, my wife put this whole thing
	together. I've offered support and few grand in start up money.

Jim
   

I am another admiror (sp?) of your efforts. We have 6 rescues ourselves.

How do you deal with the weekly trips to the pound? I went once, and I'll 
never go again. I know, refusing to face the problem doesn't help solve it,
but it was just too hard.

 <<< Note 651.264 by DECWET::LOWE "Bruce Lowe, DECwest Eng.,  DTN 548-8910" >>>

>How do you deal with the weekly trips to the pound? I went once, and I'll 
>never go again. I know, refusing to face the problem doesn't help solve it,
>but it was just too hard.

	We have folks that have had to give it up as well. You have to
	walk in chanting the mantra "You can't save them all".

	Some choices are easy, the rottweiler/pitbull/chow mix that growls
	whrn you come up to the kennel comes to mind. The 12 year old sweet
	tailwagging blind collie is harder, much harder. 

	Occasionally one of these hard cases just gets to you. We actually
	took a 9 year old Irish Wolfhound that had sever kennel cough, hip
	problems and nerve damage that caused it to drag its right hind leg.
	This dog was just laying there and was in the process of "checking
	out". Kat decided that no matter what, this beautiful animal did't
	deserve to die in that kennel. We got him out, got him to the vet,
	started him on antibiotics (you haven't lived until you stuff a pill
	into the back of a Wolfie's mouth), and hand fed him. We called
	Wolfie rescue and they sent a family over from their network of
	fosters. Sheamus lived for only 6 months with this family, but they
	but they were a good 6 months.

	But you can't save them all, You can't save them all......

	Gotta remember that.

Jim

    that's OK, count me into the souls that *can't* make a pound trip; it's
    too heartbreaking.
    
    I always wonder what would happen if the animals ruled the world for a
    few decades, knowing how we 'superior species' have treated our fellow
    space travelers.
    
    I suspect, no I KNOW that they have virtues we humans haven't even
    dreamed of...
    

    I wish I had the stats to post but I'm proud to say that the Toronto
    Humane Society destroys a very small percentage of their dogs and cats.
    Rabbits, mice and guinea pigs are not as lucky.  I have been involved
    in the adoption of 6 different pets from there and although it *is*
    heartbreaking to hear the dogs barking and looking at you with mournful
    eyes, it is good to know that most will find homes.  I have also been a
    volunteer dog walker and there were a lot of older dogs that
    unfortunately spent more than a couple of months there.  The people who
    used to make me really mad were the ones who would adopt and then bring
    the dog back a couple of days later because "it wasn't what we
    expected"  It's too bad the interviews weren't able to screen a bit
    better.  Myrtle (my baby kitty) is going in next Tuesday for spaying -
    I'm kind of afraid because she is still pretty tiny and had a bit of a
    heart murmer when first born.  However, I would never consider not
    spaying or neutering a domestic pet.  I really admire your efforts Jim
    and hope that the 7 day window gets extended so that some of these dogs
    have a better chance.

    Well, I am now owned by 2 lovely kitties.  Sabastian & Bach, because I
    rescued them from Skid Row.  Hehehe - get it?  

    Somebody stop me!

           <<< Note 651.267 by TROOA::BUTKOVICH "running on empty" >>>

>The people who
>    used to make me really mad were the ones who would adopt and then bring
>    the dog back a couple of days later because "it wasn't what we
>    expected"  It's too bad the interviews weren't able to screen a bit
>    better. 

	We tell folks that it will likely take 4 to 6 weeks for a new dog
	to become completely adjusted to their new surroundings. And we have
	Volunteers that will follow up if needed. We've been very lucky,
	only two dogs have been returned to us in the last 18 months.

>hope that the 7 day window gets extended so that some of these dogs
>    have a better chance.

	That's kind of where we come in. The HS takes in close to 60 dogs
	a DAY, they adopt out about 35. THey only have room for 250. You
	don't need to be a math genius to figure out that they can't keep
	them very long. By law, strays must be kept for 6 days and the HS
	people hold them as long as they can based on how full the kennels
	are at the time. Owner surrenders are kept for as long as possible
	given the same criteria.

Jim

> Toronto Humane Society destroys a very small percentage of their dogs and 
> cats. Rabbits, mice and guinea pigs are not as lucky.

You'll pardon me if I don't go all to pieces over the plight of the poor,
unfortunate, abandoned, homeless mice, won't you Chris?

They could save money on cat food if'n they let'em at them mice.

    
    
    	Yeah, but then they'd be spending money on tapeworm meds
    	to combat the parasites the cats get from eatin' the mice.
    

Worm the mice first.  HTH.

    
    
    	Snicker.  Now that's a funny visual.  =)
    

Snickers _are_ good bait for mouse traps.

 Don't tel raq that..

    
    * Dog saves woman's life, calls 911
    
    BACK TO TOP
    
    NASHUA, N.H. -- Judi Bayly says she owes her life to the faithful
    companion who dialed 911 -- her dog Lyric.
    
    "I've got some kind of guardian angel sleeping on my bed with me even
    if it is red with a fur coat," Bayly said of her Irish setter.
    
    Bayly, who sleeps with an oxygen mask on because of a breathing
    disorder, said she could have died early Tuesday when the breathing 
    machine plug fell out and the oxygen cut off.
    
    But Lyric remembered her training. The dog heard the oxygen alarm sound
    and first tried to rouse her master.
    
    Failing that, she knocked the receiver off a telephone, and bumped a
    speed-dial button on the phone three times to dial 911. Several buttons 
    on the phone are programmed for the same number, so she doesn't have to be 
    able to choose one.
    
    "It's amazing," said Charlene Hall, a dispatcher at Nashua Fire Rescue.
    "The dog is trained to go over and hit that phone three times to get 911 
    and she barks into the receiver."
    
    The town's 911 system automatically gives dispatchers a caller's
    address. Rescuers arrived to find Bayly having a major asthma attack.
    
    Bayly said 8-year-old Lyric, trained for her by an agency that trained
    seeing-eye and hearing-ear dogs, also summoned help a month or two ago 
    when she stopped breathing.
    
    "Animals, they really are your best friends," she said.
    
    

        <<< Note 651.271 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

>You'll pardon me if I don't go all to pieces over the plight of the poor,
>unfortunate, abandoned, homeless mice, won't you Chris?

	You probably don't care that our HS has had to deal with a stray
	fish then, huh?

	;-)

Jim

Striper?

    
    	Nah, probably checkereder.
    

    Myrtle is "under the knife" as I type and I am very worried.  She is
    being spayed today, and I have had a bad premonition that something is
    going to go wrong for the last couple of days.  She was really tiny
    when I got her and had a cough and sneezing fits for the first couple
    of months.  I'm probably worrying needlessly - this cat is healthy and
    loves to wrestle my 80lb dog.  However, she is still pretty small (less
    than 4 pounds) and the anesthetic part of the surgery is scary.
    
    Guess I'll be a wreck all day....  ;-(

Look at it this way: you'll be able to change your personal name to
"I <spade> my <catface>."

          <<< Note 651.282 by TROOA::BUTKOVICH "whatever it takes" >>>

>However, she is still pretty small (less
>    than 4 pounds) and the anesthetic part of the surgery is scary.
 
	Not to worry you, I'm sure your vet is taking all the proper
	precautions, but many set a 4lb weight limit for spaying/neutering
	cats.

Jim

    .283  agagagagag

    
    When I got Pamina from the Pat Brody shelter almost 2 years ago, she
    had already been spayed, and she weighed about 2.5 pounds when I got
    her.
    
    I was pretty surprised, but the shelter said that's the way they do it
    now.
    
    I had to wait til Fargas & Othello were about 6 months old before I had
    them neutered.  Is it different for boys?
    

    re: .286
    
    Yes, boys are different.  You have to make sure that
    the testicles have descended properly before surgery.
    6-9 months is generally the time frame recommended for
    neutering male cats.
    
    Mary-Michael
    

    
    
    Will you people stop talking about neutering males!!!!!!!!1
    
    
    It's making me very edgy....

    Just keep your portal closed and you will be all set.  Oh, stay away
    from leather drive belts, conveyors, and large paper cutters too.  HTH.

    
    >Just keep your portal closed and you will be all set. 
    
    No worries, mate... I have on the required "usual other things" today.
    
    Hey Doc!!! Ain't you glad I shared???
    
    :)
    

    Thrilled. Are these the lacey ones, or the purple paisley ones?

    I haven't heard back from the vet - no news is good news?

    They most likely have Tuesday embroidrered on them somewhere.  

    
    re: .291
    
    >Thrilled. Are these the lacey ones, or the purple paisley ones?
    
    Neither... they're the leopard-skin ones, with quick-release velcro
    tabs

    
    re: .292
    
    >I haven't heard back from the vet - no news is good news?
    
    
    I hope so...

    oy!

    
    
    re. 293
    
    > They most likely have Tuesday embroidrered on them somewhere.
    
    
    It's Tuesday today????  Damn!!! Wore the wrong pair again!!!
    

    
    	Does that mean you're wearing the pair that says "February" on
    	them?
    

>    Neither... they're the leopard-skin ones, with quick-release velcro
>    tabs

Pampers Premium and Huggies Supreme have those velcro tabs.

    
    re: .298
    
    >Does that mean you're wearing the pair that says "February" on them?
    
    
    Huh????????  You mean it's not February anymore??? I'll have to find
    the March pair!!
    

    
    re: .299
    
    >Pampers Premium and Huggies Supreme have those velcro tabs.
    
    
    How about "Depends"???
    

I dunno about Depends, but since we're at the largest size of diapers, I'll
find out soon unless we get the kids toilet trained.

    
    This would be a perfect time for me to whip out my old invention,
    "Baby in a Bucket", a permanent alternative to diapers.
    
    Not only that, it makes the baby completely portable as well!
    

    
    	All you need is a rubber stopper and an elastic band.
    

    Especially in crowded malls.
    

    
    There's an attachment, available separately, called "Baby in a Bucket
    Soundproofing Hood".
    
    

    Chris,
    
    I know small animals are a concern, but for what it's worth Peanut
    only weighs 3.5 lbs (full grown).  She came thru spaying just fine
    and she was only 3lbs when the procedure was done (he wanted to do
    the procedure before she came into her first heat).
    
    My vet says he has to monitor the anesthetic closely, but for him
    it's no problem.  FWIW, his first job after vet school was with
    another vet in Miami - he said almost ALL the dogs he worked on were
    toy breeds or the smaller range of dogs :-)
    
    Peanut fractured her front leg when she was about 9 mos old; it was
    Memorial Day weekend and of course she did it after my vet had closed
    for the day.  He carries his beeper and will take calls until midnight.
    I called late on a Saturday afternoon; he drove 40 miles back to his
    office to meet me rather than have me take her to the emergency clinic.
    
    He said he hoped I wasn't squeamish because I would have to "assist".
    He put her out with Valium (teeny, tiny needle); we X-rayed her, then
    I held the leg while he set it....no problemo.
    
    Hopefully, your kitty will come thru just fine; might be a tad sleepy
    tonight, but that should be it.
    
    
    

    I just spoke to the vet - Myrt the squirt is still quite groggy, but
    she should be ready to come home with me tonight

    re: .308
    
    Glad to hear she came through ok.  Try to limit her
    jumping/climbing activity tonight.  I'll never forget 
    the evening I brought Mips and Bell home after their
    surgery.  I had left the cellar door open (litterboxes),
    let them out of the cage, and turned away to put up the cages,
    only to hear <thump, thump, thump, thump, thump> a few
    seconds later.  They were both still groggy and fell 
    down the cellar stairs.  Fortunately, they were none the
    worse for the tumble, but I felt awful....
    
    Mary-Michael
    

     re: .308
    
    
    Good news!!!!
    
     I would be careful with Myrt at home though...
    
     When I had one of mine fixed, he came home still grogged up and tried
    to jump up onto a chair. I guess he mis-judged and/or his focus point
    wasn't up to par... He conked his head on the way up!! :) :)
    
     A cat shaking out the cob-webs... funniest thing you want to see!!!
    
    :)
    

  <<< Note 651.286 by POWDML::HANGGELI "Little Chamber of Full Body Frisks" >>>

>    I had to wait til Fargas & Othello were about 6 months old before I had
>    them neutered.  Is it different for boys?
 
	Vets that I've talked to are using weight rather than age. Four pounds
	being the lower limit.

	The theory is that at 6 months a cat may already have gone through
	at least one "heat" with the attendant risk of an unwanted, certainly
	unneeded litter.

Jim
   

    .309
    
    ...and that was the last tumble they ever had.

    thanks for all the good wishes.  I have given Taz to my Dad to look
    after for the next few days while Myrtle and I recover.

    |I have given Taz to my Dad 
    
    Stay away from me! The last thing I need to be is fighting off a bout
    of that!

    and your HMO probably wouldn't pay for the treatment anyway!

    
    Reprinted from a column in the San Jose Mercury News 4/9/96 without
    permission.
    
    
    TWO CATS' TALES SHOW TWO SIDES OF HUMANS
    by Linda Goldston
    Animal Friends
    
    Accompanying picture is of Scarlet.  Caption says:
    FELINE HEROINE  A badly burned Scarlet at a New York animal
    shelter after retrieving her kittens from a burning building,
    her eyes blistered shut by flames and smoke.
    
    --
    I can't get heroes and villains off my mind today.
    
    In New York, Scarlet the cat is still recovering from injuries
    she sustained rescuing her five kittens from a fire.
    
    In Texas, people are still rallying behind the four high school
    baseball players who stuffed Tiger the cat in a feed bag, took
    turns beating her with a baseball bat and then drove over her with
    a truck.
    
    Both incidents make me want to cry.
    
    The first because the image of a mama cat making five trips back 
    inside a burning building to save her babies is so touching.
    
    The second because Tiger was just a stray trying to make her way.
    News reports said she liked to hang out at Koym Field, home of the
    East Bernard High School Brahmas, where she made friends with some
    of the fans and salvaged scraps of food.
    
    Scarlet did what any good mother would do but was so badly burned
    after her heroics that it was hard to determine her original color--
    or see her eyes, blistered shut by flames and smoke.
    
    The shelter at the North Shore Animal League in Port Washington, N.Y.,
    has received more than 1,000 calls from people offering to help or to
    adopt Scarlet and her five singed babies.
    
    It's too late for Tiger, but I have a feeling Scarlet would have tried
    to rescue her in Texas, too, if she could.
    
    But where were all the people who could have prevented the stray's 
    brutal death, who might have taken the 3-year-old gray-striped tabby
    home before four full-of-themselves boys decided to kill Tiger for
    fun?
    
    They apparently aren't in East Bernard, Texas.  Supporters of the boys
    there were so upset over the superintendent's decision to kick them
    off the baseball team that someone killed and dumped two other cats
    on the superintendent's front yard.
    
    Some might call that Texas-style justice.  I call it Texas-style 
    stupidity -- and cruelty -- but I know it isn't confined to the Lone
    Star State.
    
    In the Bay Area, we've had people killing stray kittens with a high-
    tech bow and arrow, setting animals on fire and using sweet, tame dogs
    to train pit bulls to kill.
    
    What does it say about us that such things go on?  What does it hold
    for the future that so many people see nothing wrong:  "They're just
    animals," we often hear, or "All this over a damn cat, a damn stray,"
    one man said in East Bernard, Texas.
    
    If Tiger had survived, would 1,000 people have stepped forward to 
    give her a home?
    
    Probably.
    
    For some reason, it takes a tragedy to make us pay attention to the 
    plight of animals and people.  So many strays -- human and animal --
    die violently and alone every day.
    
    Yet a headline in the paper or a few seconds of footage on the nightly
    news about an abused kid or animal can enrage the nation.
    
    Is that what it takes to make us care -- a tiny slice of the problem
    we can comprehend instead of the massive numbers of throw-aways in our
    society?
    
    I'm still haunted by the pain and confusion I saw in the eyes of the 
    many adult animals I saw in the shelter at the Humane Society of
    the Santa Clara Valley before Christmas.  Obviously well-cared
    for cats and dogs, they had been someone's pets, loved members of
    someone's family for a time.
    
    And they were struggling to understand why someone kicked them out.
    
    Scarlet did her part in New York.  What can we do here?
    --
    
    Linda Goldston's pets column appears 3 times a month in Living.
    Write to her at the Mercury News, 750 Ridder Park Drive, San Jose,
    Calif. 951909; fax (408) 271-3786; e-mail to SJFeatures@aol.com.
     
    

    
    Mz. Deb,
    
    I don't know of ANYONE who is rallying around those high school
    bat-welding cat-crushers.
    
    Ms. Goldston is playing for contributions.
    
    I would take a bat to those 4 high-school kids, but the above-named
    "lady" should stop lying in the name of her cause.
    
    --- Barry, and his 14 cats and 2 dogs.

    
    
    	I couldn't even finish reading deb's note.  It sickens me
    	what people do to animals in the name of "fun".
    

  Animal rights activists challenge Chinese live-food tradition
  
   SAN FRANCISCO - In this city's famous Chinatown, stores sell food so
   fresh that it sometimes hops, crawls or squawks on its way home to a
   kitchen.
   
   Live frogs, doves, pheasants and turtles are popular among local
   residents who cook in the traditional Chinese style.
   
   But in a clash of cultures, animal rights advocates are trying to stop
   the Chinatown practice of selling live creatures.
   
   "These animals are kept alive in truly horrendous conditions," says
   activist Pat Briggs. "Sometimes death is their only relief."
   
   To Chinatown merchants, the criticisms are a misguided attack on a
   culinary tradition.
   
   "This is the way food is meant to be: Fresh as can be," says Astella
   Kung, owner of Ming Kee Game Birds, as she pulls a dove from a crowded
   cage. "Maximum nutrients, maximum taste, maximum health."
   
   The controversy over live food animals has prompted the city's Animal
   Control and Welfare Commission to investigate.
   
   The commission is holding hearings to determine whether selling live
   animals for food should be banned and, if not, whether guidelines are
   needed on how the animals should be kept and slaughtered.
   
   The commission is also looking at animals sold for food elsewhere in
   the city, including the famed crabs of Fisherman's Wharf, lobsters at
   supermarkets and farm animals sold at farmers' markets.
   
   But the focus is on Chinatown, where most live food animals are sold.
   Frogs go for $5.99 per pound, soft-shell turtles are $7.99 per pound
   and whole pheasant, flapping in a paper bag, costs $12.
   
   "People call it a cultural war, but it's anything but," says Matthew
   Kaplan, commission chairman. "This is a war against cruelty, not
   culture."
   
   Among the cruelties cited by animal advocates are severe overcrowding
   to the point of suffocation, lack of adequate water and food, and
   tortuous methods of slaughter.
   
   "I've seen a turtle's shell ripped off the turtle while it was still
   alive," says Briggs. "Sometimes they kill a bagful of frogs by
   smashing at them arbitrarily with a mallet."
   
   Chinatown merchants deny the animals are mistreated.
   
   "People don't understand these are not pets. They've been raised to be
   eaten," says Rose Pak of the Chinese Chamber of Commerce. "People
   should look at the conditions their own food chickens and cows are
   kept in before attacking us."
   
   Donald Lee, owner of Seven Seas market, points to a dry binful of
   frogs that aren't moving, then to a water tank stacked a foot deep
   with lobsters and another crammed with unmoving rockfish.
   
   "If they were unhappy, they'd be moving around trying to get out," he
   says. "I keep them happy, because they're at their best then, and it
   makes my customers happy."
   
   Animal activists say they won't stop pushing for reform.
   
   "It's not easy to fight for the rights of reptiles and amphibians,"
   says Allen Salzberg, of the New York Turtle and Tortoise Society,
   which deals with cruelty issues nationwide.
   
   "They're kind of low on the totem pole of charisma, so they don't get
   the priority dogs and cats do," says Salzberg, whose organization has
   worked to improve conditions for turtles in New York's Chinatown.
   
   Pak says if the city makes it impossible for merchants to sell live
   animals, the essence of Chinatown will disintegrate.
   
   "Then we'll all be forced to eat Chicken McNuggets, headless shrimps
   frozen from god-knows-where, and unrecognizable stuff you call fish,"
   she says. "We will become a homogeneous society, and this is not what
   America is all about."
   
   By Maria Goodavage, USA TODAY

    Oh good.  More cultural imperialism.

    -- Dave