Conference back40::soapbox

 I don't do Christmas trees.






 Jim

>  Is the artificial tree soooo bad?

     yes.


     i thank you.

    envious of Jim...

    
>OK...so I'm in the crapper here at work, and on the floor is some local
>newspaper. Down in the corner of one of the pages is this little piece on xmas
    
    	Wow, they're installing network connections in the weirdest
    	places these days.
    
    	Explains alot, though.  Like, when the s*** really starts flow-
    	ing, you can immediately connect to SOAPBOX before you lose the
    	momentum.
    

    > Is the artificial tree soooo bad?
    
    Yes.  Damn things are PLASTIC.  Yecccchhhh!
    
    > Which uses more resources to produce?
    
    Fake ones.  A fake tree requires the irreplaceable petroleum produced
    from the decomposition of hundreds of trees some 300 million years ago,
    and it also requires all the machinery and additional energy to turn
    that petroleum into plastic and to mold it into a shape vaguely
    resembing a tree.  And the box they put it in requires the pulp from
    more than one tree the size of the fake one - plus all the machinery
    and energy to make the pulp into cardboard.
    
    > Which do you prefer?
    
    Need you ask?
    
    > Is it an age thing?
    
    No.  Neither of my offspring (ages 26 and 27) will have a fake tree,
    either.
    
    > Do you even bother?
    
    Is the Pope a Polack?
    
    > Want the smell?
    > Simmer some pine scent potpourri...
    
    Potpourri does not smell the same as a tree.  It also does not feel the
    same as a tree when portions of it are caressed with the fingers.
    
    > I keep the thing set up year round...
    
    Seek professional help.

    merry christmas mr. binder!!

  Is the artificial tree soooo bad?
	>> yes.  Unless they're little teeny table top ones IN ADDITION
    	>> to a large, real tree
    
  Which uses more resources to produce? (Phil Hays?)
	>> dunno but Dick's answer sounds good.
    
  Which do you prefer?
    	>> real, Balsam...

  Is it an age thing? (younger=real, older=fake?)
	>> nope.  My family's always had real trees, I'll always have
    	>> a real tree.
    
  Do you even bother?
	>> of course!

    
    I prefer real vs fake, but since our condo association doesn't allow
    for real trees, the fake wins.

    
    
    	See, that's why I'd never buy a condo.  Too many darned
    	restrictions....
    
    	No real trees?  Spare me.....  no pets, no windchimes, 
    	no plants on balconies.  Might as well either live in an
    	apartment or a jail!
    
    	No offense against you or your home Mark.  I just don't
    	like all the rules that condo associations come up with...
    
    	JJ
    

    
    I'll have whatever I want in my living room, and I most certainly
    do not want to have something I'm allergic to (and I happen
    to be very allergic to spruce/pine/connifer trees). Therefore, I
    have a nice, and well decorated, artificial tree, and you can kiss
    my hairy White Christmas ass if'n you don't like it.
                                    
    -b

    
    >and you can kiss
    >my hairy White Christmas ass if'n you don't like it.
    
    
    	Even if I liked your hairy White Christmas ass, I wouldn't kiss
    	it.
    

    > Is the artificial tree soooo bad?
    
    Depends.  If you dress in paisley, brown, stripes and plaids or any
    combination, then no.  For normal folk with some sense of fashion and
    style, yes. 
    
    
    > Which uses more resources to produce? (Phil Hays?)
    
    I am not Phil Hays nor do I play him in Soapbox. 
    
    Binder has a couple of good points.  To try and defend the bad idea
    known as a fake tree, they can be handed down through generations and 
    it may be possible to recycle some of the components.  Realistically, 
    this is most likely never doen since anyone with a shred of decency 
    would toss the sucker after the first season out of sheer embarrasment.  
    Fake trees do tend to burn slower or not at all giving them the 
    safety nod.  Metallic trees will conduct electricity so check your 
    lights carefull for bare wires etc.    
    
    Real trees are usually grown enmasse and replanted every year.  there
    is some amount of cultivation that needs to occur though evergreens are
    usually fairly hardy and do not require a lot of tending.  Resources to
    replant amount to land and some water.  The areas where the bulk of
    these are grown tend to have a sufficient amount of rainfall and ground
    water not to require supplmental irrigation.  They can also be grow on
    land not suitable for other crops as they thrive in high aciditiy which
    could only be temporarily supplanted though soil ammendments such as
    lime and other chemicals.  There is no deforestation going on through
    commercial tree harvesting.  
    
    The biggest issue with real trees is the disposal.  They are compostable 
    but most folks simply toss them in the trash to be landfilled.  
    Thankfully, many municipalities are providing chipping days and refusing 
    to take trees during curbside trash pickup or having special pickups where 
    they will be shredded and composted or burned.   
    
    > Which do you prefer?
    
    Real
    
    > Is it an age thing? (younger=real, older=fake?)
    
    No, it's a class thing. 
    
    > Do you even bother?
    
    If it were up to me, no.  
    
    
    
    Just my honest and unbiased opinions.  
    
    Brian

    
    Well good. One less thing to worry about. :-)
    
    -b

   My family loves real trees.  Much better than fake ones for many
   reasons.
   
   Alas, my family's sinuses no long tolerate real trees.  Therefore,
   we've been using a fake for about 4 years now.

    Hmmmmm, allergies I guess are an exception.  But you pansies in condos,
    move.  
    
    Clark W. Griswold

    
    
    
    RE: .10  Better put a mistletoe over yer arse, -b, although I still
    don't think you'll get many takers.  

They allow pansies in condos but not trees?

  .17  again i could be mistaken, but i think pansies are allowed
       in trees as well.

    amend the CRA

    I have had a fake tree for years.  When Carrie was two, I took her with
    me to cut my parental units tree for them, a nice, environmentally
    freindly tree that was in a crowd of saplings that needed thinning.  my
    household was already using artificial trees as we had rented in too
    many places that didn't allow cut trees.
    
    To make a long story short, she watched me cut the tree down, admired
    it, and asked me politely to put it back.  I explained that once cut it
    styed down, tried to reason with a tearful toddler about thinning
    groves, and gave up.  
    
    If you use your artificial once or twice and trash it it is much more
    resourse wasteful than a "real" tree.  My former tree was given to a
    friend when we outgrew it and she needed one, I have had my current
    tree for 5 years and, except for vacuuming it when I put it up it looks
    as good as it did the day I bought it.  We have almost outgrown it
    (ornament wise, we really tart up the things) and will pass on our
    current tree to either my oldest or to another friend in need of a tree
    when it is too little tree for our stuff.  I have my eyes on a nice 7.5
    ft. spruce  for sometime in the future, the 5 ft nobel pine is just not
    quite enough any more, especially in a home with 10ft ceilings.
    
    meg

    
      Nix to the ersatz woodies...
    
      bb

    
    r: .5
    
    My lawyer will be in touch...
    

    i've always disliked ersatz woodies...

    The SO demands a real tree.  While I agree there is nothing
    like the smell of real balsam - I only get to smell it for
    about the first 10 minutes or so before my allergies and asthma
    kick up.  I'd really rather have an artifical tree, but I love
    him, and I'm sick of the "it isn't Christmas without a real tree"
    argument, so I put up with it for two or three weeks.  
      
    
    

    
    "Got to be real..."
    

    I luv how the thumper was the first one in here proudly proclaiming
    they don't DO trees...
    
    well, la de da

    
    <----------
    

    
    .27
    
    Don't you mean "white pinhead"?
    

    
    	Real tree, selected by the whole family, cut down by my
    	husband 
    
    	It's been up since Saturday, and decorated since Sunday.
    
    	No fake tree will ever cross my threshold.
    

I'm sure I knew it once... but how did the Christmas tree come to be
a tradition?

I will admit there are some fake trees now that could be very
difficult to tell apart from the real thing, but for me, only the genuine 
will do.  

    I prefer the real thing, but with 7 cats in the house I need something
    light, that won't rip out the hook in the wall the tree has to be
    tied to.
    
    Not that it matters, at my age and with my eyesight I can't tell the
    difference anyway.
    

    
    	Not sure how the Christmas tree came to be, but I do know how
    	the tradition of the angel on top started.
    

    
    
    	Chris,
    
    	I know that putting small, live trees on a table top and
    	decorating it originated in Germany.
    
    	Where it changed over to full size trees and on the floor
    	and by who, I'm not sure......
    
    	JJ
    

Shawn.... do tell!

The notion of having a decapitated soon-to-die tree in the house as a center
of celebration has always seemed somehow perverse. We prefer live trees.
- Put it in a large pot, use it for two or three years.
- Smells good.
- Plant it when yer done, watch it grow.

    
    	Does someone here have the "angel and the Christmas tree"
    	story?  I know I had it, but can't seem to find it.
    

>    envious of Jim...



  when I was married I did Christmas trees.  But now living in an apartment
  it is too much of a hassle..hauling the thing up the stairs, down the hall
  into the apt where I will stare at it for a couple weeks, then reverse the
  process.  And now with a cat intent on destroying my apt and everything in
  I don't wish to encourage her.



 
Jim

    I have a vague notion that it was Prince Albert who first brought the
    tradition of the tree from his native Germany to England.  It became
    fashionable during the Victorian period.  The mistletoe dates back to
    the time of the druids, where it was revered as a sacred plant. 

RE:         <<< Note 614.27 by POWDML::BUCKLEY "Reason for the Season" >>>
                            -< white pines for me >-

   > I luv how the thumper was the first one in here proudly proclaiming
   > they don't DO trees...
    
   
    Take a hike, bucko, I didn't have time to explain (not that I have to)
    why I don't have a tree.  And what does "thumper" have to do with it.





 Jim

    The original Yule tree comes from pagan traditions. revolveing around
    the solstice and rebirth of the sun.
    
    One of many cross religious symbols our family doesn't have problems
    with.
    
    meg

    yule never regret it either.

>    I luv how the thumper was the first one in here proudly proclaiming
>    they don't DO trees...
    
>    well, la de da



   ..and as if it's any of your *&*^ business, I love Christmas trees, but
 since I am divorced and my kids live with their mother, I can't stand
 having a tree without having my family..


 So, take your anti Christian bigotry elsewhere




Jim

    i don't know how trees became the tradition, but i thought i heard at
    one point, christmas trees weren't good things...
    
    
    
  Is the artificial tree soooo bad?
    
    yes...the real thing is just so much better

  Which uses more resources to produce? (Phil Hays?)

    i would think plastic, and i like the earlier explaination
    
  Which do you prefer?
     
    real...less than 6' tall (i am short and don't have high celings)
    
  Is it an age thing? (younger=real, older=fake?)

    don't think so.  dad always had real trees. still does.  grew up
    getting blue spruces, but at the moment, as long as i like how it
    looks, i buy it
    
 Do you even bother?
    
    only if i am going to be around to enjoy it
    

Real.

Now that the kids aren't kids anymore, I can even get them to put the
lights and the decos on while I relax with a toddy and say, "Yeah - put
the green one right there. Now, over to the left a little bit put the ..."

I'd still like to know which of the two (real or fake) uses more resources 
over a reasonable period (not just one or two years).

If I can hold on to my fake tree for ten or more years (so far it's been about 
seven), doesn't that begin to outweigh the resources of ten or more real 
trees over that time? In ten years, which has done more damage to the 
environment...one fake tree, or ten dead trees?

I have nothing against real trees. I just prefer the fake for ease.

I like the idea a few have made of passing on the fake tree to someone else if 
that's possible.

I would bet a study has been done on this...maybe even two studies...one by 
the Chemical Institute, and another by the Forestry Service!

Bob

    I'm with you Henderson; I DID Christmas big time while married;
    it's just too depressing to bother now.
    
    I lost several loved ones during the period considered "the holidays";
    I don't need reminders to make that period of time worse.  I could
    gladly go from Thanksgiving to Easter without any "holidays" in
    between.
    
    

What's "Easter"?

> In ten years, which has done more damage to the 
> environment...one fake tree, or ten dead trees?

It's still the fake tree that's had the bigger negative impact. The ten
dead trees recycled some CO2 into O2 and cleaned up some water before 
they died, and, being biodegradeable, put something back when they rotted.
The plastic one still used never to be replenished resources.

    .46
    
    > I'd still like to know which of the two (real or fake) uses more resources
    > over a reasonable period (not just one or two years).
    
    Go back and read .5 for comprehension.  A fake treee requires HUNDREDS
    of trees' worth of IRREPLACEABLE petroleum, first to make the plastic
    and then to get it where it's going.  (Transportation is really a wash,
    both kinds get trucked.)  Real trees make oxygen while they are growing,
    and they can be composted, which means that many dead real trees go on
    contributing to the environment.  Try to compost your plastic tree.  You
    can't even recycle it in most locations - it's not good enough plastic
    to be reused.
    
    There is NO comparison.  Not even if you use a plastic tree for many
    many years.

...and trimming a fake tree with an axe could be interesting.

We had "fakes" when I was a child (I don't think there were any commercially 
available real Christmas trees in the district), and ittyy bitty real ones when 
Greg and I moved into a unit, and a "real" tree since we've had the house.  
The "real" one lasts about a month if given water daily.  It smells fabulous.
We also have a family tradition of having our Bible study group around for a 
pizza tree decorating night.


\C

    growing up my family had a real tree; actually two since my dad would
    also have one in his store-frint.
    
    now, since my wife is allergic to various thousands of items, pine
    happens to be one and we have a fake.  even when we visit her brother's
    at the holidays, she take her benadryl and we usually don't stay much
    longer than an hour.
    
    was really funny when we were first dating and walking in thw woods and
    she went into one of these non-stop sneezing fits...since she was head
    over heels, she forgot her meds but really suffered for it till I got
    her back home.

    Dick is right on most points though the oil point is irrelevant.  No 
    trees are being used when petroleum is made.  The only decision is 
    whether or not to leave it in the ground or refine it into something 
    useable.  It could be argued that trees die as a result of the refining 
    process through pollutants etc.  A fake tree has one eventual fate, the
    landfill.  If it's plastic, then it may be burned in some locales. 
    Unfortunately, many real trees end up lanfilled as well and they will
    decompose as readily as the fake ones i.e. not at all.  
    
    To Raq's point, yule trees do have unsavory roots, pun intended. 
    Warriors would hang the entrails of their vanquished foes on the tree
    which started the tradition of the garland.  I do not know what else
    was hung on the trees that would have started the tradition of other
    ornamentation though.  
    
    Brian

    as usual, Mr. Blunder decides not to look at both sides. now i'm not
    taking sides (i prefer real but don't let on), but what about the
    "irreplacable" fuel used to cultivate, harvest and transport? What
    about pesticides/fertilizers? What about their final resting places
    (landfills)?
    
    you'd make a relevent argument by exploring both sides. my guess is
    that there aren't a lot of stats available to make an intelligent call
    on the evils of either one.
    
    HTH 

>                 <<< Note 614.51 by GIDDAY::BURT "DPD (tm)" >>>

        ...
> pizza tree decorating night.


        One of those endearing Oz customs, I suppose, Chele. We generally
        use pine trees or the Mighty Fraser Fir (cue...) ;*) Do you have
        any trouble with the tomato sauce attracting the cat?
        
        &y
        

>    when we were first dating and walking in thw woods and
>    ...since she was head over heels

I don't think it's necessary for you to regale us with tales of your
premarital heterosexual gymnastics, !Roger.

    entrails? that'd different.

    I'd like to have one of those trees.  But I don't think I've got the
    guts.

         <<< Note 614.56 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

>>    when we were first dating and walking in thw woods and
>>    ...since she was head over heels

>I don't think it's necessary for you to regale us with tales of your
>premarital heterosexual gymnastics, !Roger.

	This probably belongs in the things to wonder about, but I'm 
	too lazy to go hynt for it.

	How did the expression "head over heels" come to mean some sort
	of topsy-turvy state? It seems to describe normal standing posture.
Jim

    Although, come to think of it, the Yule entrails are probably the
    origin of putting lights on the tree today.

    No, garland.  Lights were derived from the candles that were put on
    trees.  They could get away with it more so then as the trees were
    likely to be fresh and not as flammable as the ones that we get from
    Nova Scotia that were cut in October.  
    
    Brian

    
    re: .48
    
    >What's "Easter"?
    
    Jack,
    
     That's when the bunny rabbit comes out of it's hole, and if it sees
    it's shadow, it means 6 more weeks of commercialism and sales...
    
    nnttm...
    

    "Hi, I'd like a pizza tree with entrails, please."
    
    Hmm, maybe I'll try that on the Rotary this week-end.... :-)
    

    
    a little trivia for you all, heck that's all I'm good for anyhoo.
    The states of Washington and Michigan, are the largest producers
    of Christmas trees in the U.S.  Takes ten years to grow a Christmas
    tree from birth. and now back to our regularly scheduled tree debate.

    When I was a kid I remember hearing my Dad swearing out in the
    livingroom, in the middle of the night. It seems that the fresh cut
    Christmas tree that he had purchased the day before and had spend a few
    hours with my Mom decorating, kept falling over. He was not a happy
    camper. The next year he bought a fake tree and I think he still has
    it. We have a fake that I paid mucho bucks for because the rest of the
    family likes real but I spend the holidays with a tissue stuck up my
    nose when a real tree is in the house.
    
    ...Tom

    Wow, all these folks that are allergic to real trees.  All my allergies
    are in the Spring and fortunately, being allergic to x-mas trees is the
    least of my worries during the holiday season.  
    
    Brian

    
    	RE: head over heels
    
    	Instead of considering this phrase to refer to a static state,
    	consider a full-motion affair, like a somersault.  And then do
    	it repeatedly, signifying a constant state of turmoil.
    
    	That's where "head over heels" starts to make sense.
    

    
    actually, I'm quite fond of shrubbery, myself

    do you get hangy around shrubbery?

    "We want you to bring us a shrubbery."
    

    Well the "fake" is up and decorated.  One of the neighbor kids whose
    family will be going to SC for the holidays helped Carrie and Atlehi. 
    The cats and the mutt have ignored the tree so far this year, maybe
    they are finally growing up?  Atlehi has removed and replaced most of
    the ornaments she can reach, and will probably continue the r & r
    through most of the season.  As tarted up as this tree is, and there
    are more ornaments to go on when Lolita gets home from school, I think
    we are going to have to start looking into a bigger tree next year.
    
    meg

    .54
    
    > as usual, Mr. Blunder decides not to look at both sides...
    
    Fine.  You want both sides?  The following is on a per-tree basis and
    includes the understanding that the petroleum involved is the amount
    used of the fraction appropriate to the specific task.
    
    Real:	To drive the planting machinery - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the cultivating machinery - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the harvesting mchinery - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the transportation machinery - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the family car - 1 liter
    		To drive the pickup truck - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the chipper or backhoe - <10 milliliters
    
    Fake:	To pump the crude - <10 milliliters
    		To crack the crude - <10 milliliters
    		To make the plastic - several liters
    
    		To transport the raw plastic to the molder - <10 milliliters
    		To mold the tree - <10 milliliters
    		To plant the trees for cardboard boxes - <10 milliliters
    		To cultivate the trees for boxes - <10 milliliters
    		To harvest the trees for boxes - <10 milliliters
    		To transport the trees for boxes - <10 milliliters
    		To make the cardboard - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the transportation machinery - <10 milliliters
    		To drive the family car - 1 liter
    
    Real trees are not usually given significant amounts of pesticides;
    they are hardy enough without.
    
    Even if you count that the plastic tree will serve 10 years, you still
    end up using significantly more petroleum for it, and you can't compost
    it for reuse.

    Someone asked for this a while back.  Here it is, typos and all.
    
    Ruth
    
    
    
================================================================================
Note 192.4          Humorous anecdotes, jokes, cartoons, etc              4 of 7
DPDMAI::JEFFREY "Drumroll, please"                   30 lines  18-DEC-1989 10:21
                             -< A Christmas Story >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Everyone is familiar with the angel on top of the Christmas tree. For
    many families, this is a tradition at Christmas time. The angel on my
    tree is more than 50 years old. It's is considered a revered spot as
    angels go. Here is the truth behind the legend of the littlest angel
    and how she earned her sacred post.
    
    Things were not going well at Santa's workshop. The elves were
    grumbling something about a wage freeze. Their work had been slow and
    sub-standard as a result.
    
    Rudolph had the runs, and the other reindeer were refusing to fly
    without him.  It seems a huge storm was approaching, and in all
    honesty, Santa wasn't too thrilled about the freezing his [ears] off in
    a blizzard. Why, oh why did they insist on him riding in an open
    sleigh?
    
    Mrs. Clause was had been moody all week and was locked up in the
    bedroom watching "Wheel of Fortune" while starting on the third box of
    sugar plumbs; the special ones had reserved for all the really good
    boys and girls.
    
    Santa was cleaning up after Rudolph for the third time, when the elves
    walked out and Mrs Clause began to sob uncontrollably. Just then, the
    littlest angel walked in and asked,
    
    "Hey Santa, what do you want me to do with this tree?"
    
    
    Michael

    
    	Thank you ... I couldn't find it anywhere!!
    

    8^)

    I can't get too enthused about the holiday, but when I DO decorate
    a tree I simply move my ficus or schefflera (sp)in front of bay window
    and decorate.  When I've made the effort, either tree looks pretty
    good.
    
    Georgia's pines are scraggly and ugly so we "import" real Christmas
    trees from up nawth and the merchants charge outrageous prices IMHO.
    
    

    But some of us have lived those pines.  Try a Colorado, Environmentally
    correct ponderosa for the best bonsai yule tree you will ever see.  I
    grew up with them.  My mom is now happy with a really tacky, (IMO) and
    I have have an artificial, plastic tree because at least she doesn't have
    to spend two hours figuring out how to get this one to stand up
    straight in the tree-stand, and another three to find the "good" side. 
    
    I probably could never cut a semetrical tree having been raised to find
    the tree in the middle of a group of other trees, preferably infested
    with dwarf mistletoe and chop it down for whhat water and nutrients it
    was sapping from trees in the local.  Dad, it is all your fault!
    
    meg

    question Mr. Binder... where the hell did you get those stats and are
    we expected to believe them?
    
    inquiring minds...

    well, mine phoney is up. looks pretty good and the wife isn't at all
    worried about a fire. she's paranoid like that. 
    
    of course, it's become the cats bunk and they're unwrapping gifts
    already. they really do have no concept of Christmas :-)

    
    
    Got the tree (real) up over the weekend, wonderfully decorated by three
    artists, one 4 yrs, one 6 yrs and one 8 yrs of age.  It looks
    beautiful.
    
    
    Mike

    I decided to cut my own to ensure we wouldn't get a canadian tree
    "fresh cut" in October. I borrowed my neighbor's pickup and chainsaw
    and loaded the kiddies into the cab for our trek through the snow on
    saturday. We got to the tree farm, and the kids and I began our quest
    for the holy grail. After looking at several hundred trees, we finally
    decided to take one at the far end of the field (of course.) 10 seconds
    later, the deed is done. I ran the saw back up to the truck, and
    returned to drag the tree. The same way that all the fun ends after you
    pull the trigger in deer hunting, all the fun ends after you cut down
    the tree. It was a long, slow drag. My six year old tried to help for
    nearly 30 seconds. :-) Each step was about 6". It took many steps to
    get back to the truck.
    
     Finally we were back in the truck, headed for home, with the tree
    nestled snugly in the bed. I had been a little surprised at how heavy
    the tree was. Last year's tree had been of similar size, well, height,
    anyway- but it had been relatively easy to pick up and carry. Well, we
    got home and the kids piled out of the truck, eager to show our booty
    to mom. I dragged the thing up onto the porch, out of the snow, so we
    could plan its grand entrance. We did manage to get it in the front
    door, but it was a struggle. And it was too tall to stand up in the
    house- I ended up cutting more than a foot off the top. We got it in
    the stand all right, but it was a lot of work. Only when it was inside
    and upright were we able to appreciate the size of the thing. It's got
    a diameter of a good 7 feet. And it's incredibly dense- I ended up
    getting the Fiskars out and lopping off some of the extraneous
    greenery.
    
     Hint to those cutting their own: they're bigger than they look! :-)

    
    
    
    
    RE: The Doctah's hint......
    
    
    I'll bet you say that to all the gals.........

    all the gals? nah. Just one.
    
     I did, however, recently install a mirror on our bedroom ceiling. It
    says "Objects in mirror are larger than they appear." :-)

    Next time bring yer calipers to the treefarm, Doctah.  Then you won't
      need to bring yer clippers.
    
    hth.
    
    :-)
    

    Strangely enough, this year's tree has a smaller trunk than last year's.
    It's much bushier, OTOH.

    You persist in this notion that I am reasonable.  I meant a TREE-sized,
    not a treeTRUNK-sized, set of calipers.  Why do you persist?  :)
    

    I'm a glutton for punishment.

    
    
    Problem is, he probably couldn't get the caliper and the tree home in
    the same truck.

    
    
    	I worked part-time at a tree farm for about 8yrs. We used to have a
    gent that would come up every year looking for the "perfect tree". He
    had a set of "calipers" and other measuring devices to determine what
    was the perfect tree. More often than not, he took one out of our tree
    farm. :)
    
    	jim
    
    

    .78
    
    I don't remember where I got them.  Believe them or not ad libita.

      A brother-in-law gave us a fake tree.  We kind of take turns having
      a real tree maybe about three years in five.
    
      I used to be dead-against real trees thinking that it was a terrible
      waste of a plant, but then it occured to me that land is generally
      going to be used to make money and I'd much rather some land grew
      trees then became a condo.
    
      Some things I was thinking...
    
      I'm not sure about this petroleum thing.  Free enterprise dictates
      the worth of petroleum so if the trees are worth it to people, they
      just bought the petro that was used.  I tend to think the fraction 
      of petro used to whats available is so minute that its a nil point.
    
      Does constant growing of trees remove nutrition from the soil like
      certain minerals?  I know that some people are concerned that a lot
      of land is losing much of the rare minerals and thus the plants 
      grown there lack it and thus we (often) lack it.
    
      I favor the reals, but I am certainly not as zealous as others here!
    
    
    							Tony

    
        FAKE is beautiful !!!!
    
         Fake xmas trees.....fake make-overs ( i.e. Michael Jackson)....
    ...fake/forced smiles in the hallways.....
    
       all VERY beautifulllllll !!!!!!!!!!!    
    
    8^)
    
    

    
    	A chainsaw to cut down a Christmas tree ?
    	
    	Isn't that like using a blowtorch to light a birthday candle ?
    
    

    No, it's more like using a PC with Quicken to balance your checkbook.
    Unnecessary, but much less effort.

    
    
    
    I don't know, doc......I think it's a little overkill as well. 
    
    
    Mike 

    
    would you rather have had him use a butter knife, to prove his
    "manhood"?

    Or a herring?

    Well, if he cut his tree down with a butter knife, *I* would be
    suitably impressed.

What if he cut off his manhood with a butter knife to prove his treehood?

    
    don't think i'll be getting a tree this year...

    It's almost time to take my tree out of the bag.  

    
    .101
    
    << It's almost time to take my tree out of the bag.
    
    I'll bet you also have a box-of-wine as well.

    
    And a bag'o'beer, no doubt!
    
    

>           <<< Note 614.100 by GAVEL::JANDROW "Green-Eyed Lady..." >>>

>    don't think i'll be getting a tree this year...

	i wasn't thinking it until you said that.

    re: .102
    
    Perish the thought.  I do have bottled homebrew, though, and the apple
    cider/wine/mead (fermentation got carried away  8^) ) is aging.

    
    took me a minute di...  %^> %^> %^>
    
    

Q:
  For those who buy cut trees rather than cutting your own, when do
  you normally expect the tree to begin dropping needles, assuming
  it was cut in mid November, has been sitting out of water in
  a lot since then, and is brought inside this weekend?

  (I've always cut my own, but am considering an easier route this
   year if it'll last until 1/10 or so.)

    Add a little sugar to the water and the needles will stay on longer. 
    1/10 may be pushing it though.  

    Buy one of them plastic deals.

    
    Jack, 
    
    We've always bought cut trees and have never had an excessive needle
    loss problem.  We've had our tree up as late as 1-14.  I make sure that
    I take a good 6" off the bottom of the tree and keep it watered.  As
    long as it's still drinking, you should be okay.
    
    
    Mike

    
       Use hot water instead of cold water and that will add time to the
    tree. I heard this years ago and can't remeber why. But, it helps with
    cut flowers. 
    
        Rosie

    
    .110
    
    << As long as it's still drinking, you should be okay.
    
    Mike, have you considered taking your tree into AA?

    
    
    It's been in rehab twice.......

    
    	But it had to drop out because all the other trees kept needling
    	it.
    
    	There was no real need to fear them, however, since their bark
    	was much worse than their bite.
    

    The most important thing to do is cut some off the bottom of the
    tree to expose a new layer of cells to drink water. After a while
    the cells on the bottom of the tree close up, and it will not take
    any more water in. 

    Also change the water frequently or add clorox or some other anti
    fungal solution.  there is a fungus that plugs up the cells.
    
    meg

    
    
    	I've also been told that the sugar added to the water is a myth.
    Warm water, fresh cut on the base, etc, will help immensely. We used to
    have needles stay on our fraser fir trees for over a month (one
    interesting story was a woman who told us she left her tree up for
    almost three months without it drying out!).
    
    
    jim (ex-tree farm foreman)
    

    
    
    Okay, here's my secret.  Add a little Miracle grow to the water about
    once a week.  
    
    Mike (ex golf course superintendant)

	What will Miricle Grow do to a Chia Head? Turn it into a Chia Beatnick
Head?

    
    >  What will Miricle Grow do to a Chia Head?
    
    It ends up looking like Don King.

	Hank... pretty funny!

    
    Put up the (real) tree on Sunday...spruces the place up a bit.
    

    
    Fir sure.
    
    

Go ahead.  Make a pun with "balsam."  I dare you.

    Martin?

    
    I'd like to go to another Christmas Balsam time before I die.
    
    

    
    
    Yew would??? So wood I!!!!!
    

    Debra, you could ask Douglas Fir a date next year.

    
    	Yeah, I hear he's been pining for you.
    

    He's the clear cut favourite.

    
    Branching away from the original topic, are we?
    
    

    I'll leaf that one alone.

    
    this pun string is getting a little watered down.

    
    Stop needling us.
    

    
    His bark is worse than his bite.
    
    

    
    ...and he has a sappy pitch.
    

    Wood you STOP ?!?

    Boy, we sure are ringing up the puns in this topic.

    
    <-------
    
    You been reading too much pulp fiction, boy!
    

    
    I firgot what it was I was going to say, wood someone help me out?

    
    	BZZT!!  Repeats!!
    

    
    I'm pining for the fjords...

    
    Shawn, check out 58.818, it answers mz_deb's and Glenn's puns from
    yesterday.

    I wonder if wooden balsa pine cojones?

    Probably on a Larch.

    So you deciduous right?

    Well, now I'm stumped. Perhaps I shouldn't have logged on this morning.

    We don't have enough people for a punfest.  Need another tree fellers.
    

    They're prolly lumbering around at home 'cause of the snow.

    I'll axe them to cut me a cord for this pizza slicer.
    

    I kindle like it!

    
    I can probably root around and find some more.
    
    

    Debra, don't go out on a limb for us, please!

    But if you must, I'll give you a bow if you cut me a bough so I can
    make a bow.

    
    It's knot like I have anything else to do, after all.
                     

    
    Stop all these sappy responses!

    
    >>Well, now I'm stumped.
    
    been bobbitized, eh??  sorry to hear about your shortcoming... :> :> :>
    
    

    Time to go to KMart and look at the '96 model artificial trees.
    
    You can never be too early to start Christmas shopping, eh?

    
    	Well, yes, you can, but it doesn't appear that you asked me
    	specifically.
    

    
    Did somebody say something?
    

    
    	Not to you, no.
    
    	Now go away, or I shall be forced to taunt you a second time.
    

    
    I guess not...must be the wind.