Conference back40::soapbox

    -1 
    already dreaming of a white christmas eh martin   :^)
    

    I spent Christmas 1990 on a beach in Bateman's Bay - that was strange.
    It really didn't feel like Christmas at all.  A few weeks before that I
    went to the Santa Claus Parade in Sydney.  If I remember correctly, it
    was a middle of a heatwave (low 40's) and poor Santa came along in
    full costume - the guy looked like he was about to faint any second.

    Yeah Bill, a white christmas would be {freezing} but ok. I have a funny
    feeling that going from here to Indonesia and then arriving home on Dec
    16th isn't a very good idea !!!! 35 degrees to -5 is, errrr, a bit of a
    shock to the system.
    
    I spent last Christmas in Vic. We had the sun down there, I think it
    was raining up here, but it was still humid/hot.

    
    .0
    
    Martin, you twisted maniac!
    

    Moi !! {heehee}

    I donna wanna talk about Christmas this early.  Haven't paid off last
    Christmas yet.                               

    it stinks no matter what time of year it's talked about

    
    
    Well, this is gonna be an awesome Christmas for me!
    My brother is coming home on Dec. 21st, and I leave on
    Dec. 26th for Bermuda. :*)
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
    
    
    		Bah-humbug!
    
    

    
    
    Oh, Halloween!  My favorite holiday!  The one day of the year I can act
    like a little kid and get away with it!  :*)  I love to dress up in
    costume to greet the kiddies at the door!  I love to see all the
    inventive costumes they come up with.  Some of the little ones are
    absolutely priceless!  :*)
    
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
      Actually, Windows '95 would be a more appropriate Halloween gift...
    
      bb

The drug store I went into at lunch today (or maybe I should say
pharmacy) already had the Hallowe'en candy out for sale.

    
    Oh boy, hallowe'en-theme Peeps 8^q!
    
    

   Hmmph - less than two months left to think up snappy comebacks to that
   little witch (quite literally) who said "How _rude_." to me 
   when I told her she looked pretty last year.  If she darkens
   the doorway again, that is.  Rude, my eye.  We'll see how many
   miniature Snickers bars she gets _this_ year.  

   All in good time.  (sorry, Joan)

My Dad used to have some old gas masks from when he was in the Navy,
made the basis of a pretty cool Hallowe'en costume.  And, yes, there
were the comments that I looked better when I was wearing it.

Chris.

        Yabbut you can take your gas mask off now Chris - oh! you have,
        already - tough to tell the difference sometimes...
        
        

Hur.

I have already obtained my 1995 Hallmark Romulan Warbird ornament.

    
    Will it have a worthy opponent somewhere else on the tree?
    

    Yes, maybe something from the Dominion, or at least the Borg?

    
    Cripes, I just mailed my family's Christmas presents a couple of months
    ago for LAST year, don't tell me I have to start all over again 8^/.
    
    Why is it such a big deal anyway?

    
    Quith Myth!
    

    It is necessary for the survival of retail stores, and because wise
    men from the east wanted to make the west pay for their future
    opulence.

    
    Wise men?  From Halifax?!?
    

    Impossible.

>    Will it have a worthy opponent somewhere else on the tree?
    
'twill be flanked by a Klingon Bird of Prey, a shuttlecraft with
Spock inside, and NCC-1701 D (?TNG). (I wasn't savvy enough in 1991
to purchase NCC-1701 (OS).) Elsewhere, a mawgwi and a gremlin will
be found.

You'd think with all of that crap on the tree I could get the damn thing
to self destruct some year, but, no, I have to take it down again and again.

    
    Hey Jack, jes keep it around until the fourth of July, light it on
    fire, and flip it out the window.... You neighbors 'll love it !

    :-)))))

    Hopefully there are less than 111 days left of the OJ Media Circus...

    I cant believe what I'm reading! Cant we just enjoy EVERY day? Who
    needs a reason to give gifts, have fun, celebrate, you can do it any
    time of the year, really it's possible.
    
    

    reply.29
    
    
    			dido
    

    
    re: .29
    
    Can't
       ^
       |______
    
    
    re: .30
    
      
                            "ditto"
    
    
      Or did you forget an "l" in there??

    
    Oh, I thought s/he was talking about Aeneas' friend 8^).
    
    

    
    >   <<< Note 538.29 by POLAR::WILSONC "A dog is a womans best man" >>>
    >                        -< get a grip people! >-
    >
    >I cant believe what I'm reading! Cant we just enjoy EVERY day? Who
    >needs a reason to give gifts, have fun, celebrate, you can do it any
    >time of the year, really it's possible.
    
    
    	Large bills preferred ... send them to me at MRO1-3/K23.
    
    	You will feel great if you do this.
    

    you mean you will pay my hydro and phone bill for this month? They are
    pretty big. Maybe christmas ain't so bad after all.

    bamba bamba
    bamba bamba
    bamba bamda 
    
    etc.. etc..

    
    
     I guess the admonition didn't work...
    

    	I'm going to give my leftover halloween candy to the Christmas 
    	carolers that come to my door this year.
    
    	:^)

    
    	Of course, the ones with the best costumes will get the best candy.
    

    
    Nope... the ones what don't mention a certain diety will certainly earn
    the most candy!!!
    

    
    Well, yes - candy doesn't always go well with dietys.
    
    

    I worship a diety.

    
    Sheeeeeeesh!! Next time I'll put it in quotes so's people will know I
    was referencing something what occured just recently re: that word...
    

    
    leftover hallowe'en candy...leftover hallowe'en candy...
    
    <shakes head>
    
    ...sorry, doesn't ring a bell.
    

    
    Does for me.  I buy candy I won't eat, like Snickers, so I won't be 
    tempted to snack from the bowl.
    
    

    What if you use a tray?

    
    Oh wow, I never thought of that 8^/.
    
    

 I'll take one of those snickers, please..

    
    	[snicker]
    

    Just in time for Christmas :
    
         Hacker Barbie
    
    (LA, California) Mattel announces their new line of Barbie products, the
    "Hacker Barbie." These new dolls will be released next month.  The aim
    of these dolls is to negate the stereotype that women are numerophobic,
    computer-illiterate, and academically challenged.
    
    This new line of Barbie dolls comes equipped with Barbie's very own
    X-terminal and UNIX documentation as well as ORA's "In a Nutshell"
    series. The Barbie clothing includes a dirty button-up shirt and a pair
    of well-worn jeans. Accessories include a Casio all-purpose watch, and
    glasses with lenses thick enough to set ants on fire. (Pocket protectors
    and HP calculators optional.)
    
    The new Barbie has the incredible ability to stare at the screen without
    blinking her eyes and to go without eating or drinking for 16 hours
    straight. Her vocabulary mainly consists of technical terms such as
    "What's you're Internet address?", "I like TCP/IP!", "Bummer! Your
    kernel must have gotten trashed," "Can't you grep that file?", and
    "DEC's Alpha AXP is awesome!"
    
    "We are very excited about this product," said Ken Olsen, Marketing
    Executive, "and we hope that the Hacker Barbie will offset the damage
    incurred by the mathophobic Barbie." (A year ago, Mattel released
    Barbie dolls that say, "Math is hard," with a condescending companion Ken.)
    The Hacker Barbie's Ken is an incompetent management consultant who
    frequently asks Barbie for help.
    
    The leading feminists are equally excited about this new line of Barbie
    dolls. Naomi Falodji says, "I believe that these new dolls will finally
    terminate the notion that women are inherently inferior when it comes to
    mathematics and the sciences. However, I feel that Ken's hierarchical
    superiority would simply reinforce the patriarchy and oppress the
    masses." Mattel made no comment.
    
    Parents, however, are worried that they will fall behind the children
    technologically when the Hacker Barbie comes out.  "My daughter Jenny
    plays with the prototype Hacker Barbie for two days," says Mrs. Mary
    Carlson of rural Oxford, Mississippi, "and now she pays my credit card
    bill online. Got no idea how she does it, but she surely does it. I just
    don't wanna be looked upon as some dumb mama." Mattel will be offering
    free training courses for those who purchase the Hacker Barbie.
    
    The future Hacker Barbie will include several variations to deal with
    the complex aspects of Barbie. "Hacker Barbie Goes to Jail" will teach
    computer ethics to youngsters, while "BARBIE RITES L1KE BIFF!!!" will
    serve as an introduction to expository writing.
    

    "The Night Before Chanukah"
    
    
    'Twas the night before Chanukah, boychicks and maidels
     Not a sound could be heard, not even the draidels.
    The Menorah was set on the chimney, alight
     In the kitchen the Bubba hut gechapt a bite.
    Salami, pastrami, a glessala tay
     And zayerah pickles with bagels, oy vay!
    Gezunt and geschmack, the kinderlech felt
     While dreaming of tagelach and Chanukah gelt.
    
    The clock on the mantlepiece away was tickin'
     And Bubba was serving a schtickala chicken.
    A tumult arose like a thousand brauches,
     Santa had fallen and broken his tuches.
    I put on my slippers, eins, tsvay, drei,
     While Bubba was now on the herring and rye.
    I grabbed for my bathrobe and buttoned my gotkes
     While Bubba was busy devouring the latkes.
    
    To the window I ran and to my surprise
     A little red yarmulka greeted my eyes.
    Then he got to the door and saw the Menorah,
     "Yiddishe kinder," he said, "Kenehora.
    I thought I was in a goyisha hoise,
     But as long as I'm here, I'll leave a few toys."
    
    With much gesshray, I asked, "Du bist a Yid?"
     "Avada, mein numen is Schloimey Claus, kid."
    "Come into the kitchen, I'll get you a dish,
     A guppell, a schtickala fish."
    With smacks of delight, he started his fressen,
     Chopped liver, knaidlach and kreplah gegessen.
    Along with his meal, he had a few schnapps,
     When it came to eating, this boy was the tops.
    
    He asked for some knishes with pepper and salt,
     But they were so hot, he yelled "Oy Gevalt."
    Unbuttoning his haizen, he rose from the tisch,
     And said, "Your Kosher essen is simply delish."
    As he went to the door, he said "I'll see you later,
     I'll be back next Pesach, in time for the Seder."
    
    More rapid than eagles his prancers they came,
     As he whistled and shourted and called them by name:
    "Now Izzy, now Morris, now Yitzak, now Sammy,
     Now Irving and Maxie, and Moishe and Mannie."
    He gave a gesshray as he drove out of sight:
     "Gooten Yontiv to all, and to all a good night."
    

---------------------
Forwarded message:
From:	LANOUE@OMTOOL.COM (LANOUE)
To:	msilliker@aol.com
Date: 95-12-08 09:39:01 EST

From: CRL::"anthonys@hpwadhn.wal.hp.com" "Anthony Sute"    7-DEC-1995 
18:45:36.99
To: rock::mueller, ioana@hpwadhn.wal.hp.com, stafford@hpwadhn.wal.hp.com
CC: 
Subj: Merry Washington Christmas

> >     Twas the night before Christmas and throughout the White House, Al
> >     Gore was eyeing Hillary, peering into her blouse.
> >     The Secret Service were guarding the premises with care, For a whole
> >     host of Democrats were vacationing there.
> >
> >     Chelsea was nestled all snug in her bed,
> >     Dirty thoughts swam around Mr. Kennedy's head. And Bill in his
> >     sportcoat; a heavy gray tweed, Had just fried his brain with some
> >     Mexican weed.
> >
> >     When out in the garden came a plethora of noise, All drunken and
> >     rowdy:  'twas Newt and the boys! Bill jumped to the window, and tore
> >     open the sash,
> >     "It's a raid boys!" he cried, "Quick, go hide my stash!"
> >
> >     The pot in his blood and the moon on the snow, Gave a psychedelic
haze
> >     to the objects below. When what to Bill's frantic eyes should appear,
> >     But a slew of Republicans and a  keg of ice beer.
> >
> >     With a big House leader, all lively and fat: He knew it was Newt, the
> >     proponent of GATT! As viscous as vipers, the Republicans came,
> >     And Bill recognized them and called them by name.
> >
> >     "Hey Helms, Hey Thurmond! Hey Packwood and Hatch! Hey Dole and
Pataki,
> >     it's time for a bash!"
> >     A collective cheer rose our from the crowd, "Let's listen to Nugent,
> >     and turn it up loud!"
> >
> >     Together Dems and Republicans danced and sang out in cheer "Screw
> >     health care and Haiti, it's time to drink beer!" When from the
> >     chimney, came a big black cloud of soot,
> >     As Limbaugh danced from the fireplace in a red Santa suit.
> >
> >     He moved through the crowd, then held up his hand, And when all was
> >     silent, he did a keg stand.
> >     And the crowd raised their cups, as Newt bowed down in prayer, And
> >     champagne flowed freely, just like welfare.
> >
> >     As Kennedy and Reno romped in the Green Room,
> >     The rest of the crooks outlined their plan of doom. "We'll pray in
the
> >     schools, shove it down their throats!" "More welfare, more taxes,
> >     we'll still get the votes!"
> >
> >     And they drank, hugged and danced, they crossed party lines. They
> >     cheered, "It doesn't matter, we're all bastard swines!" So they threw
> >     out allegiance and partisan crap,
> >     And they took turns sitting on the President's lap.
> >
> >     And Gephardt and Dole passed out on the lawn, And awoke in the
morning
> >     without their pants on. And Packwood gave Tipper a pat on the rear.
> >     While Judge Thomas and Miss Hill went out for more beer.
> >
> >     Then the party-ers discovered a sight so touching and cute, President
> >     Clinton fast asleep, snuggled up next to Newt. Santa Limbaugh smiled
> >     and threw up on his boots,
> >     "A merry Clinton to all, and to all a good Newt!"
> 
> 


--
______________________________________________________________________________
_
Anthony Sute
Hewlett-Packard Company
Clinical Information Systems
3000 Minuteman Road  Andover, MA 01810
VOICE: (508) 659-4840
FAX  : (508) 686-1258

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Subject: FWD: Merry Washington Christmas



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    TTLT:
    
    A very productive evening of Xmas shopping, a touching letter from 
    my Dad, and a welcome message on the answering machine.
    
    Shaping up to be a *fine* Christmas, yes it is.
    

 I must start shopping one of these days.




 Jim

    
    Less than two weeks left!
    

 yippee

    
    my dad called me last nite to tell me he wanted to borrow my car to go
    get my christmas present.  i had to laugh.  told him if he could get it
    moving, he could have it.  he hadn't heard yet about the boo-boo. 
    seems he was going to get me some new tires (he wasn't very pleased
    with the condition of the ones i have last time he saw them, tho i
    really don't see a major problem)...now, i think he is just going to
    give me some $$ for the tranny...i think i'd rather have the tires, but
    i am not going to complain...
    

	Raq.... which is cheaper, the tires or the tranny?

VISIT FROM ST. HICK

                         (c) 1993 Christopher M. Mislow

'Twas late Christmas eve, and throughout the White House 
All slumbered but Socks (who was chewing a mouse) 
When all of a sudden a thunderous roar 
Rattled the East Wing from rafter to floor. 

Unsure if the noise was just gas or artillery,
Bill Clinton took action: he deputized Hillary.
In her robe and her slippers, she trudged to the source
Of the noise and saw nothing, but then heard a coarse
Texas twang from the fireplace clamor
"Down here! Are y'all just as blind as those tinhorn reindeer?" 

There, on the hearth, 'midst the timber and tinder,
Sat H. Ross Perot, all covered with cinder.
"Your flue," he complained, "is disgusting with soot.
You gave far too many staff members the boot.
Cutting budgets is wonderful; better is cheaper.
But you need either Zoe's or Kimba's housekeeper.
From ashes that thick, someone's breathing might fail.
Thank goodness, like Bill, that I didn't inhale." 

"Why, Ross," replied Hillary, "pray tell what is it
To which Bill and I owe this Christmas Eve visit?
You're certainly welcome to use the front door.
Did you come down the chimney to hide from Al Gore?" 

Shaking the layer of ash from his head,
Ross brushed his flattop, glowered and said:
"No, M'am. I'm a shareholder in Santa Claus, Inc.,
Whose dividends recently started to sink.
When I finally cornered old Santa himself,
He offered to hire me on as an elf! 

So I planned my attack, set my financing snares,
Then bought all the company's outstanding shares.
Christmas trees won't be all that get trimmed from now on;
The era of deficit budgets is gone.
The business is gonna be run right because
All day, every day, now I am Santa Claus." 

From his inside coat pocket Ross whipped out a chart
And a pointer he brandished with well-practiced art.
"Now, you look at this. You see this here graph?
The way Santa's workshop was run is a laugh. 

Those North Pole utility bills are a joke,
And the union-scale wages will soon have us broke.
We need much, much cheaper electrical power,
And elves who don't make fifteen dollars an hour." 

For dramatic effectiveness, Ross took a pause,
Then resumed his debut as the new Santa Claus. 

"Each new day brings another environment rule.
Recycling toys is a pain in the Yule!
The slogan 'keep the North Pole white'
Is driving expenditures clear out of sight.
Luckily, NAFTA provides a solution,
A haven in which I can discharge pollution
Into the air or the land of my neighbor,
Where the real estates cheap, and so is the labor.
Where there's no powerful union committee:
I'm moving the workshop to Mexico City." 

Then, in a twinkle, up the chimney he went,
Back through the soot out the cold rooftop vent.
But not before saying, with a wink and a nod,
"Buenas noches, Miss Hillary, and Feliz Navidad!" 

And Now For All You Trek Fans Out There...

                           Christmas in Space


                               ------------------
                              by Eric R. Rountree

'Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the ship
Not a circuit was buzzing, not one microchip;
The phasers were hung in the armoury securely,
In hopes that no aliens would get up that early.

The crewmen were nestled all snug in their bunks
(Except for the few who were partying drunks);
And Picard in his nightshirt and Bev in her lace,
Had just settled down for a neat face-to-face...

When out in the halls there arose such a racket,
That we leapt from our beds, pulling on pant and jacket.
Away to the lifts we all shot like a gun,
Leapt into the cars and yelled loudly, "Deck One!"

The bridge Red-Alert lights, which flashed through the din,
Gave a lustre of Hades to objects within.
When, what, on the viewscreen, should our eyes behold,
But a weird kind of sleigh, and some guy who looked old.

But the glint in his eyes was so strange and askew
That we knew in a moment it had to be Q.
His sleigh grew much larger as closer he came.
Then he zapped on the bridge and addressed us by name:

"It's Riker! It's Data! It's Worf and Jean-Luc!
It's Geordi! And Wesley, the genetic fluke!
To the top of the bridge, to the top of the hall!
Now float away! Float away! Float away all!"

As leaves in the autumn are whisked off the street,
So the floor of the bridge came away from our feet,
And up to the ceiling our bodies they flew,
As the captain called out, "What the hell is this, Q?!"

The prankster just laughed and expanded his grin,
And, snapping his fingers, he vanished again.
As we took in our plight and were looking around,
The spell was removed, and we crashed to the ground.

Then Q, dressed in fur from his head to his toe,
Appeared once again, to continue the show.
"That's enough!" cried the captain, "You'll stop this at once!"
And Riker said, "Worf! Take aim at this dunce!"

"I'm deeply offended, Jean-Luc," replied Q,
"I just want to celebrate Christmas with you."
As we scoffed at his words, he produced a large sack.
He dumped out the contents and took a step back.

"I've brought gifts," he said, "just to show I'm sincere.
There's something delightful for everyone here."
He sat on the floor and dug into his pile,
And handed out gifts with his most charming smile:

"For Counsellor Troi, there's no need to explain.
Here's Tylenol-Beta for all of your pain.
For Worf I've some mints as his breath's not too great,
And for Geordi LaForge, an inflatable date.

For Wesley, some hormones, and Clearasil-Plus;
For Data, a joke book; for Riker, a truss.
For Beverly Crusher, there's sleek lingerie,
And for Jean-Luc, the thrill of just seeing her that way."

Then he sprang to his feet with that grin on his face
And, clapping his hands, disappeared into space.
But we heard him exclaim as he dwindled from sight,
"Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good flight!"

----------

Based on "A Visit from St. Nicholas" by Clement Clarke Moore
Adaptation Copyright c 1990, Eric R. Rountree

This work my be freely distributed provided the above notice is included 
intact.
EMail: Eric.Rountree@Dal.CA 



Ok I admit it, I'm a Trek Fan... Here's Another

'Twas the night before Christmas on the Enterprise-D,
On a routine short hop to Starbase 03,
With Data on duty in the command chair,
At Warp 6, the Enterprise soon would be there. 

Just for something to do while the other crew slept,
He scanned where historical records were kept --
And with a blink of his eye and a cock of his head,
"Intriguing! Tomorrow is Christmas!" he said. 

But no one was stirring, and he sought to find why,
And so he buzzed Geordi, who awoke with a sigh:
"Christmas? It's only an old holiday --
Now just let me get back to sleep, okay?" 

"But is to wish Merry Christmas not human to do?"
And so Data wished it -- to the whole ship and crew.
Everyone on the Enterprise awoke from this clatter --
Picard rushed to the bridge to see what was the matter. 

"What is the meaning of this noise, Mister Data?"
"Sir, is it not Christmas--?" "We'll discuss it much later!" 

Just then Worf said, "Captain -- a Klingon Prey Bird!
Its hull has been damaged -- it's uncloaking, sir."
"On screen," said Picard, as the Klingon ship hailed: 
"Federation vessel, our Life Support systems have failed! 

A strange ship attacked us, inflicting the worst,
(though naturally, of course, we'd fired on it first)." 

The Klingons beamed over, and the senior staff met,
To try and determine the source of the threat.
Said Picard, "Mister Data, an assignment for you:
Give all of these Klingons something to do!
They think it's the Romulans we should look for,
Get them all off the bridge, before there's a war!" 

So Data departed, while the rest of the crew
Wondered: Romulans? Ferengi? If not them, then who? 

Said Worf, "Sir -- disturbance on Holodeck Three!"
The entire bridge crew ran down there to see.
Roared Picard, "Mister Data, what the devil is this!!" 
"Sir, I have taught the Klingons how to celebrate Christmas." 

And so there they were -- on holodecks 3, 4 and 5
With synthohol, singing and Rokeg Blood Pie!
Soon the Big E was rocking with holiday cheer 
Friend,foe, and family came from both far and near. 

The Romulans showed up with some Romulan Ale,
The Ferengi brought goodies for free -- not for sale!
But a strange ship was coming, the captain was told,
With one crew member only, and a huge cargo hold. 

Said the Klingons, "It's the strange ship that fought us -- attack!"
Said Picard, "On Christmas? -- Mister Worf, just hold back." 
And then as the ship came into view,
Onscreen came its captain -- none other than Q! 

He wore a white beard and a suit of deep red...
"Joyeux Noel, mon captain," was what Santa Q said.
"Tell those Klingons next time to not go so berserk.
You need good defense systems in this line of work.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be warping away...
Did you think anyone else could do this job in one day?" 

"I'm sensing emotion," said Counselor Troi,
"Peace in the galaxy, Good Will and Joy."
And they stood on the bridge and watched Q take flight, 
shouting,
"MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT!"

General Christmas traditions

Christmas

From old English Cristes maesse (Christ's Mass), older still, Yule, from the 
Germanic root geol.

In some languages: 

English: Christmas, Yule, Noel 
German: Weihnachten 
Finnish: Joulu 
Swedish: Jul 
Italian: Il Natale 
Spanish: La Natividad 
French: Noel 

The traditional Christmas is not a single day but a prolonged period, 
normally from 24th December to 6th January. This included the New Year, thus 
increasing the festival value of Christmas. 

Magi

From old Persian language, a priest of Zarathustra (Zoroaster). The Bible 
gives us the direction, East and the legend states that the wise men were 
from Persia (Iran) - Balthasar, Melchior, Caspar - thus being priests of 
Zarathustra religion, the mages. Obviously the pilgrimage had some
religious significance for these men, otherwise they would not have taken 
the trouble and risk of travelling so far. But what was it? An astrological 
phenomenon, the Star? This is just about all we know about it.

Christmas card

The practice of sending Christmas greeting cards to friends was initiated by 
Sir Henry Cole in England. The year was 1843 and the first card was designed 
by J.C.Horsley. It was commercial - 1000 copies were sold in London. An 
English artist, William Egley, produced a popular card in 1849. From the 
beginning the themes have been as varied as the Christmas customs worldwide. 

Star

The astrological/astronomical phenomenon which triggered the travel of the 
Magi to give presents to child Jesus. Variously described as a supernova or 
a conjunction of planets it supposedly happened around the year 7 BC - the 
most probable true birth year of Christ. Star is often put to the top of the 
Christmas tree.

Christmas Day

The traditional date for the appearance of Santa Claus, obviously from the 
birthdate of Jesus (the word Christmas is from old English, meaning Christ's 
mass). This date is near the shortest day of the year, from old times an 
important agricultural and solar feasting period in Europe. The actual
birthday of Jesus is not known and thus the early Church Fathers in the 4th 
century fixed the day as was most convenient. The best fit seemed to be 
around the old Roman Saturnalia festival (17 - 21 December), a traditional 
pagan festivity with tumultuous and unruly celebrations. Moreover, in
273 Emperor Aurelianus had invented a new pagan religion, the cult of Sol 
Invictus (invincible sun, the same as the Iranian god Mithra), the birthday 
of this god being 25th December (natalis sol invicti). The Christian priests 
obviously saw this choice as doubly meritorious: using the old
customary and popular feasting date but changing the rough pagan ways into a 
more civilized commemoration. 

The first mention of the birthday of Jesus is from the year 354. Gradually 
all Christian churches, except Armenians (celebrating 6th January which date 
is for others the baptismal day of Jesus and the day of the three Magi), 
accepted the day. In American/English tradition the Christmas Day itself is 
the day for Santa, in German/Scandinavian tradition the Christmas Eve is 
reserved for presents.

Christmas symbolics

Candles,fires: Summer, warmth, paradise, end of darkness, Jewish Hanukkah 
Tree: Eternal life, Paradise tree, pagan symbol 
Apples: Apple of Paradise 
Reindeer: A prop 
Santa Claus: St Nicholas, pagan deity 
Gifts: Customary (Romans, pagans everywhere), Magi 
Mistletoe: Peace, kisses 
Holly: Christ's crown of thorns 
Gnomes: Pagan entirely 
Straw: Stable & crib, pagan, handy material for deco 
Sock: A prop (as chimney etc) 

Christmas Crib

Jesus was born in a stable in Bethlehem. In Catholic countries this fact is 
brought to mind with miniature replicas of the nativity scene. The manger, 
animals, miniatures of Jesus, Joseph, Maria, the shepherds and the Three 
Magi are part of this very popular symbol. It was started (says the
legend) by St Franciscus of Assisi. The Pope has his own in Rome but 
nowadays the custom is followed in Protestant countries, too.

Mistletoe

Sacred to ancient druids and a symbol of eternal life the same way as 
Christmas tree. The Romans valued it as a symbol of peace and this lead 
eventually its acceptance among Christmas props.
Kissing under mistletoe was a Roman custom, too.

Decorations

Anything goes nowadays. In old times they were simple, wood, paper, straw 
and often very intricate. Themes follow the general taste of each time but 
national traditions can be discerned even now. 

Christmas gifts

There are many roots of this custom. There is St.Nicholas the anonymous 
benefactor, there is the tradition of Magi giving precious gifts to Jesus, 
there is the Roman custom of giving gifts of good luck to children during 
Saturnalia. The day of gift giving varies greatly in different Christian 
cultures and times: 

6th December - in memory of St. Nicholas 
24th December - Christmas Eve 
25th December - Birthday of Jesus 
1st of January - the New year 
6th of January - The Epiphany, day of the Three Wise men, the Magi 

The giver of the presents are many: Jesus himself, Old Father Christmas, 
Santa Claus, a Goat, Befana (the female Santa in Italy), the three Magi, 
Christmas gnomes, various Saints, the Kolyada (in Russia), the Joulupukki 
(in Finland). The oldest Finnish tradition did not necessarily involve a 
giver of the presents at all: an unseen person threw the gifts in from
the door and quickly disappeared.

Christmas carols

The Catholic Church valued music greatly and it is no wonder that the early 
Christmas songs date from 4th century (the earliest known is Jesus refulsit 
omnium by St.Hilary of Poitiers). The Mediaeval Christmas music followed the 
Gregorian tradition. In Renaissance Italy there emerged a lighter and more 
joyous kind of Christmas songs, more like the true carols (from the French 
word caroler, meaning to dance in a ring). These songs continued to be 
religious and in Latin, though. In Protestant countries the tradition, as 
everything Christmas-related, intensified. 

Luther wrote and composed his song "From Heaven above I come to You". Music 
by Handel and Mendelssohn was adapted and used as Christmas carols. The old 
Finnish/Swedish collection Piae Cantiones was translated and published in 
English in mid - 19th century. The most famous of all, Silent Night (Stille 
Nacht, heilige Nacht) was written by the Austrian parish priest Joseph
Mohr and composed by Franz Gruber, church organist, in 1818. In 19th century 
and later many popular songs were written by composers (e.g. Adam, 
Sibelius). The themes of songs surpassed religion and the totality of 
Christmas paraphernalia found its way to carol music.

Christmas plays

Religious plays were part of the Medieval Christian tradition and many of 
them were connected with Christmas. The plays were often communal with 
pageants and general participation. A popular theme was the coming of the 
Magi (the Three Kings), because the plot allowed lots of pomp and decorative 
props to please the audience. These plays live on in many places, for
instance in Finland in the form of the traditional Star Boys drama.

Food

Christmas means eating in most parts of the Christian world. In old 
societies hunger was the supreme king and eating was the highest contrast, 
the supreme way to nirvana. Meat of some kind was the most important dish 
(was this connected with the words of Jesus, "this is my flesh"?),
often pork, ham,goose, (later turkey), fish (carp, salmon). An innumerable 
variety of cakes and pastries, often very intricate and only baked for 
Christmas were and are known throughout the world. Cakes could be hung from 
the Christmas tree, too.

I have (obviously) been searching the net for some (as of yet) unfound 
information.  This one was kind of funny, but you must be getting sick of 
it, so it's the last I'll post! ;-)


Seasons Greetings

The usual large flamboyant typeface associated with the seasons greetings
has been downsized this year commensurate with the trend toward corporate
downsizing.  [And the fact that SMTP does not support typeface control]

The recent announcement that Donner and Blitzen have elected to take the
early reindeer retirement package has triggered a good deal of concern
about wether they will be replaced, and about other restructuring decisions
at the North Pole.

Streamlining was appropriate in view of the reality that the North Pole no
longer dominates the season's gift distribution business.  Home shopping
channels and mail order catalogues have diminished Santa's market share and
he could not sit idly by and permit further erosion of the profit picture.

The reindeer downsizing was made possible through the purchase of a late
model Japanese sled for the CEO's annual trip.  Improved productivity from
Dasher and Dancer, who summered at the Harvard Business School, is
anticipated and should take up the slack with no discernible loss of
service.  Reduction in reindeer will also lessen airborne environmental
emissions for which the North Pole has been cited and received unfavorable
press.

I am pleased to inform you and yours that Rudolph's role will not be
disturbed.  Tradition still counts for something at the North Pole.
Management denies, in the strongest possible language, the earlier leak
that Rudolph's nose got that way not from the cold, but from substance
abuse.  Calling Rudolph "a lush who was into the sauce and never did pull
his share of the load" was an unfortunate comment, made by one of Santa's
helpers and taken out of context at a time of year when he is known to be
under executive stress.

As a further restructuring, today's global challenges require the North
Pole to continue to look for better, more competitive steps.  Effective
immediately, the following economy measures are to take place in the
"Twelve Days of Christmas" subsidiary:

The partridge will be retained, but the pear tree never turned out to be
the cash crop forecasted.  It will be replaced by a plastic hanging plant,
providing considerable savings in maintenance.

The two turtle doves represent a redundancy that is simply not cost
effective.  In addition, their romance during working hours could not be
condoned.  The positions are therefore eliminated.

[The three French hens will remain intact.  After all, everyone loves the
French]

The [four calling birds] were replaced by an automated voice mail system,
with a call waiting option.  An analysis is underway to determine who the
birds have been calling, how often and how long they talked.

The five golden rings have been put on hold by the Board of Directors.
Maintaining a portfolio based on one commodity could have negative
implications for institutional investors.  Diversification into other
precious metals as well as a mix of T-Bills and high technology stocks
appear to be in order.

The six geese-a-laying constitutes a luxury which can no longer be
afforded.  It has long been felt that the production rate of one egg per
goose per day is an example of the decline in productivity.  Three geese
will be let go, and an upgrading in the selection procedure by personnel
will assure management that from now on every goose it gets will be a good
one.

The seven swans-a-swimming is obviously a number chosen in better times.
The function is primarily decorative.  Mechanical swans are on order.  The
current swans will be retrained to learn some new strokes and therefore
enhance their outplacement.

As you know, the eight maids-a-milking concept has been under heavy
scrutiny by the EEOC.  A male/female balance in the workforce is being
sought.  The more militant maids consider this a dead-end job with no
upward mobility.  Automation of the process may permit the maids to try
a-mending, a-mentoring or a-mulching.

Nine ladies dancing has always been an odd number.  This function will be
phased out as these individuals grow older and can no longer do the steps.

Ten Lords-a-leaping is overkill.  The high cost of Lords plus the expense
of international air travel prompted the Compensation Committee to suggest
replacing this group with ten out-of-work congressmen.  While leaping
ability may be somewhat sacrificed, the savings are significant because we
expect an oversupply of unemployed congressmen this year.

Eleven pipers piping and twelve drummers drumming is a simple case of the
band getting too big.  A substitution with a string quartet, a cutback on
new music and no uniforms will produce savings which will drop right down
to the bottom line.

We can expect a substantial reduction in assorted people, fowl, animals and
other expenses.  Though incomplete, studies indicate that stretching
deliveries over twelve days is inefficient.  If we can drop ship in one
day, service levels will be improved.

Regarding the lawsuit filed by the attorney's association seeking expansion
to include the legal profession ("thirteen lawyers-a-suing") action is
pending.

Lastly, it is not beyond consideration that deeper cuts may be necessary in
the future to stay competitive.  should that happen, the Board will request
management to scrutinize the Snow White Division to see if seven dwarfs is
the right number.  Happy Holidays!

    Some pretty good takes on "The Night Before", but I like Dr.
    Dan's best.  Haven't stopped salivating yet.
    
    

                      -< Wasn't there any kugel pudding? >-
					  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
redundancy alert -------------------------

    
    
    Please report this infraction to:
    
    the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
    
     Thank you for your cooperation in this matter...

    .62
    
    So what do you want from a WASP?  At least I have the good taste
    to appreciate it ;-}
    
    

                            Christmas

               
               
               And is it true ? And is it true,
                    This most tremendous tale of all,
               Seen in a stained-glass window's hue,
                    A Baby in an ox's stall?
               The Maker of the stars and sea
               Become a Child on earth for me?
               
               And is it true? For if it is,
                    No loving fingers tying strings
               Around those tissued fripperies,
                    The sweet and silly Christmas things,
               Bath salts and inexpensive scent
               And hideous tie so kindly meant.
               
               No love that in a family dwells,
                    No carolling in frosty air,
               Nor all the steeple-shaking bells
                    Can with this single Truth compare  
               That God was Man in Palestine
               And lives today in bread and wine.
               
               
               
                               From "Christmas"
                               by John Betjeman
                               Author of "Summoned by Bells"

    
    I've always liked Vanessa Williams' version of `What Child Is This'.
    

    
    	I guess you mean "Greensleeves".
    

    
    Maybe.  I hit my head last night, you know.
    

    
    	Oh, wonderful ... how long are you going to milk THIS injury??
    

    Until he gets Chretien to declare him a disaster zone.

    
    Hey, whatever it takes.
    

   'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the house,
    not a creature was stirring,
    except for two lab mice who were plotting to take over the world..

kb

    They're Pinky, Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain.....

    Subject: EREV CHRISTMAS
     
    Glossary for non-Jews:
    ----------------------
    Erev = eve
    Kopfs = heads
    Chozer = pig
    Fressed = ate
    Noshed = snacked
    Yom Tov = good day (holiday)
     
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     
                            EREV CHRISTMAS
                            ==============
                                  by
                     Bruce Marcus and Lori Factor
     
    Twas the night before Christmas, and we, being Jews,
        My girlfriend and me -- we had nothing to do.
    The Gentiles were home, hanging stocking with care,
        Secure in their knowledge St. Nick would be there.
    But for us, once the Hanukkah candles burned down,
        There was nothing but boredom all over town.
    The malls and the theaters were all closed up tight;
        There weren't any concerts to got to that night.
    A dance would have saved us, some ballroom or swing,
        But we searched through the papers; there wasn't a thing.
    Outside the window sat two feet of snow;
        With the wind-chill, they said it was fifteen below.
    And while all I could do was sit there and brood,
        My girl saved the night and called out "CHINESE FOOD!"
    So we ran to the closet, grabbed hats, mitts and boots --
        To cover out heads, our hands, and our foots.
    We pulled on our jackets, all puffy with down.
        And boarded "The T," bound for old Chinatown.
    The train nearly empty, it rolled through the stops,
        While visions of wontons danced through our kopfs.
    We hopped off a Park Street; the Common was bright
        With fresh-fallen snow and the trees strung with lights,
    Then crept through "The Zone" with its bums and its thugs,
        And entrepreneurs selling ladies and drugs.
    At last we reached Chinatown, rushed through the gate,
        Past bakeries, markets, shops and cafes,
    In search of a restaurant: "Which one?  Lets decide!"
        We chose "Hunan Chozer," and ventured inside.
    Around us sat others, their platters piled high
        With the finest of foods their money could buy:
    There was roast duck and fried squid, (sweet, sour and spiced,)
        Dried beef and mixed veggies, lo mein and fried rice,
    Whole fish and moo shi and shrimp chow mee foon,
        And General Gaus chicken and ma po tofu....
    When at last we decided, and the waiter did call,
        We said: "Skip the menu!" and ordered it all.
    And when in due time the food was all made,
        It came to the table in a sort of parade.
    Before us sat dim sum, spare ribs and egg rolls,
        And four different soups, in four great, huge bowls.
    The courses kept coming, from spicy to mild,
        And higher and higher toward the ceiling were piled.
    And while this went on, we became aware
        Every diner around us had started to stare.
    Their jaws hanging open, they looked on unblinking;
        Some dropped their teacups, some drooled without thinking.
    So much piled up, one dish after the other,
        My girlfriend and I couldn't see one another!
    Now we sat there, we two, without proper utensils,
        While they handed us something that looked like two pencils.
    We poked and we jabbed till our fingers were sore
        And half of our dinner wound up on the floor.
    We tried -- how we tried! -- but, sad truth to tell,
        Ten long minutes later and still hungry as well,
    We swallowed our pride, feeling vaguely like dorks,
        And called to our waiter to bring us two forks.
    We fressed and we feasted, we slurped and we munched.
        We noshed and we supped, we breakfastd and lunched.
    We ate till we couldn't and drank down our teas
        And barely had room for our fortune cookies.
    But my fortune was perfect; it summed up the mood
        When it said: "Pork is kosher, when its in Chinese food."
    And my girlfriend -- well ... she got a real winner;
        Hers said: "Your companion will pay for the dinner."
    Our bellies were full and at last it was time
        To travel back home and write some bad rhyme
    Of our Chinatown trek (and to privately speak
        About trying to refine our chopstick technique).
    The MSG spun round and round in our heads,
        As we tripped and we laughed and gaily we said,
    As we carried our leftovers home through the night;
       "Good Yom Tov to all -- and to all a Good Night!"
    
    ----------------------
    Steven T. Black
    Apple Computer, Inc.

I think when this was posted in Bagels someone commented on the poem's
suggestion that Jews should go to "treyf" restos.

/john

    
    .67

    	>I guess you mean "Greensleeves".
    
    I checked, and it's "What Child Is This?", 
    off `A Very Special Christmas 2'.
    
    Nyah.
    

The song is "What Child is This."

It is most commonly sung to the tune "Greensleeves."

From the 1940 Hymnal Companion:

"Greensleeves" is a traditional English melody.  The earliest mention of
the ballad of "Greensleeves" in the registers of the Stationers' Company
is in September 1580, when Richard Jones had licensed to him "A new Northern
Dittye of the `Lady Greene Sleeves'."  It was evidently already a popular
ballad for several other licenses were issued for it in a short time.
Twelve days after the first license, the ballad was converted to a pious
use... Shakespeare mentions the tune twice in the "Merry Wives of Windsor"...

/john

    got the pork shredded and the chili started.  the lard is thawing and I
    have a 5 pound bag of masa.  For those who are cholesterol conscious
    the only way to get good tamales is with lard, I tried substitutes, but
    no luck.
    
    Tamale rolling tomorrow.
    
    meg

    I'M DONE WITH MY SHOPPING, YEA!!!!!
    
    Tom, shouting for joy!

    I will begin my shopping this week.  No one is being the least bit
    helpful in giving me ideas, and I am running out of time.  If they do
    not like the gifts, it is now officially their fault as I am forced to
    shop in total ignorance.  8^)

}  God rest ye Unitarians, let nothing you dismay.
}  Remember there's no evidence there was a Christmas day.
}  When Christ was born just is not known, no matter what they say,
}  Glad tidings of reason and fact, reason and fact,
}  Glad tidings of reason and fact.
}   
}  There was no star of Bethlehem, there was no angel song,
}  There could have been no wise men, for the journey was too long,
}  The stories in the Bible are historically wrong,
}  Glad tidings of reason and fact . . .
}   
}  Much of our christmas custom comes from Persia and from Greece,
}  From solstice celebrations of the ancient Middle East,
}  Our so-called Christmas holiday is but a pagan feast,
}  Glad tidings of reason and fact . . .

    
    > They're Pinky, Pinky and the Brain, Brain, Brain, Brain.....
    
    "Excelent idea Pinky... No, wait! What if we wanted to do something
    that works"
    
    A great P&B quote that applies so often to life and doubly to
    engineering.
    
    	Skip
    

    John,
    
    How nice to see you valuing differences once again.  
    
    Oh well
    
    Happy judeo-christian peak retail season to you too.

re .83

Er, whose difference are you worried about, Ms. Humour-Impaired?

/john

    re .84
    
    Remember that next time someone refers to old virgin males in skirts
    trying to tell others how to run their sex life and reproductive and
    marital choices, Johnnie.  
    
    meg

Meg     1
/john   0

Mebbe Meg should think about the difference between humour and
nastiness.

I'm not sure you can compare a little song with what the skeptics are
_actually_saying_ with nasty comments about "men in skirts."

/john

    You mean like,
    
    Mommas, don't make your babies grow up to be catholic
    dont' make them guilty and pray overmuch
    Let'em be witches and druids and such
    Mommas don't make your babies grow up to be Cathoics
    For they'll yield to their id's and be sorry they did,
    Even with someone they love.
    
    

No, nothing like that.

Noone said "don't be Unitarians".

The only thing in that song is what skeptics belonging to that
organization have posted right here.

It's WHAT THEY SAY themselves.

I wouldn't be surprised if the song was written by a Unitarian.

/john

    But Johnie......
    
    it is just a little song, surely you can't be offended!  As a matter of
    fact, I know the mommas song was written by a recovering Catholic, you
    can only imagine who wrote yours
    
    meg

The difference, Meg, is that your song says

	1. negative things about Catholics
and	2. says don't be one.

And Catholics are used to that sort of abuse, anyway, because they get it
all the time.  It's nothing new.  Did I say I was offended?  Did I moan
about you not valuing a difference?  After all, I'm not a Roman Catholic.

The little carol doesn't say anything bad about Unitarians, and doesn't
say you shouldn't be one.  It only talks about ideas they actually teach.
Unitarian Universalism embraces all ideas; why even druids and witches are
perfectly welcome as Unitarians; they believe everything; they're "seeking".

The little carol says the very things the skeptics say.  But they're
liberals, and they scream the loudest when their ideas are lampooned.

Now, if the ideas in that song, i.e. that the historical accounts in the
bible being historically wrong, actually _are_ offensive, then it's just
as offensive for people to post notes stating those ideas.  But you yourself
have said those very things.

So if you _do_ argue those ideas, so how can anyone possibly be offended
by them?

/john

Let's make this _real_ simple, Meg:

Identify one sentence, or even one word, in that song which is offensive.

/john

    
    The Christmas spirit of love abounds.
    
    

    
    Our group coughed up about $400 for the local orphanage and we bought
    them twelve sets of sheets & comforters (which is what they asked for).
    Very feelgood.
    
    On the other hand, my good wife was in tears after she delivered them
    yesterday, thinking of all those little ones who have no family for
    Christmas.  Bummer.
    
    
    
    

They still have orphanages in the U.S.?  Are you sure it's not called a
group home or something like that?

    Could be.  Whatever term fits a definition of 25 kids living in a house
    and cared for by a staff of adults.  Still sad, whatever you call it.

    
    re: a few back...
    
    
     Does someone need to get laid perhaps????
    

    Oh, It's OK - I got laid once this year already.  Thanks for offering
    though.
       
    

        Watch out for the bum stogy!

    >> Does someone need to get laid perhaps????
    
    
    who doesn't?!!??!
    
    

    
      I dunno about others, but I find Christmas an excellent time
     for romantics.
    
      bb

    Clinton Sings....
    
    
    
    I'LLLLLL BE HOOOOME FOR CHISSSSSSTMAAAAASSS...YOOOUUU'LLL BE
    OVVVVERSEEEAS.....

    
    re: .101
    
    >I dunno about others, but I find Christmas an excellent time
    >for romantics.
    
    Especially on Sanibel Island....
    

    sure would like to receive some pez

    
    what flavour?
    

    
    Pez were cool, but somewhere someone, in a moment of natural
    selection at its finest, managed to shoot one of the things
    into their epiglottal netherlands and choke on it, and the
    company, in a rush to prevent law suits, removed the elastic
    from the dispensers. The neutered Pez dispensers just aren't
    the same...

    -b

			  (__)
                          (oo)
                   /-------\/ 
                  / |     || \ 
                 *  ||W---|| Pez roolz. 
                    ~~    ~~  

    

Christmas is sh... I mean crap; but so is the rest of the year.

Chris.

    
    	Scrooge!!
    

    
    re: .108
    
    Have a beer... Oh? You were gonna have one anyway? 
    
    Never mind....
    

    John,
    
    had this been posted by a Unitarian I would find nothing wrong with it. 
    Posted by someone who refers to religious groups that allow women in
    leadership position in negative contexts, believes the magic around
    ritual cannibalism can't occur if it is a woman reciting the spells,
    and believes that anything other than his "old-time" religion is crap,
    I find it offensive.  
    
    I am not a unitarian, nor do I play one on TV, nor am I a member of
    CUP, (the pagan part of UU) however, I find your poking non-humorous
    fun at a group you have called heretical in the past to be just plain
    mean spirited, like I interpret all parts of you that aren't eaten by
    your church.
    
    meg
    
    

Well, tell you what.

Given that you have just referred to the Holy Eucharist as

    "the magic around ritual cannibalism"

I don't care in the least what you think.

If you think it's acceptable to put that many offensive expressions in one
sentence, but not acceptable to post a song which contains not one offensive
phrase or word, but only what the subject people _themselves_ claim to
believe (or not believe) then you have no credibility with me at all.

You are the rudest person I know.  So go away, and don't bother me any more.

/john

>someone who refers to religious groups that allow women in
>leadership position in negative contexts

I have never done that.

Women are clearly entitled to leadership positions.  I would never say
anything negative about women in leadership positions.

However, men in the Church do not have the authority to ordain women to the
apostolic priesthood.  That is not a "leadership" position, it is a position
of servanthood.

And since the only religious group in the world which has pretended to do
that is the one to which I belong, and have belonged to since birth, I have
every right to say whatever I want about my own religious group.  And what
I have said is that when the three men got together and put their hands on
the head of the first woman they thought they could make into a bishop,
absolutely nothing happened.  And the enabling legislation which made it
legal to do so specifically stated that it was a valid belief that nothing
would happen.  And I hold onto that belief, authorized in the same legislation
that authorized the bogus ordinations.

And the sooner you get that through your head, the better off you will be.

/john

    re .112, FWIW, Covert, around the subjects of religion &
                   abortion/choice, You are the rudest person I know.
    
    Yeah yeah, I know, no surprise there either.  Just fwiw, as long as
    we're complaining.  I see little, save human ripostes when mercilessly
    bugged, of your pushiness & pompous overweening moral blindness in Meg.
    
    That said, I think I'll go back to enjoying the holiday season!!
    

             <<< Note 538.112 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>

>Given that you have just referred to the Holy Eucharist as
>    "the magic around ritual cannibalism"


	John, Can you explain how this differs from your references
	to certain religions or certain religious practices as
	"heresy"?

	Non Roman Catholic, Anglican or Episcopalians  are very likely 
	to take serious offense to such a designation.

	I will admit to not knowing all the details of the Anglican
	Hierarchy. But from what I have picked up from this discussion
	is that the General Synod is the highest ruling body in this
	Church. Much in the same way that the Pope is the highest 
	authority for Roman Catholics. 

	Religions, even old and very entrenched religions, sometimes
	change very basic teachings. I can remember being taught by
	Ursaline Nuns that all non-RC Christians were following a "false"
	religion. All that changed, rather abruptly, with John XXIII.

	I was quite relieved at the time to learn that my Mother's family
	were no longer doomed (my Mother converted in order to marry
	my Father. She had been baptised a Lutheran). 

	Now, what would your position be if the Pope declared that women
	could be ordained? He could do this. And in fact he can do it
	in such a way as to invoke infallibility for the declaration,
	a VERY basic tenet of the Faith. What then? Do you then reject
	the Pope's infallibility in matters of Faith and Morals? Or do
	you accept women as apostolic priests?


Jim

    
    
    Sorry, Jim.  God is the highest authority for Roman Catholics.
    

   <<< Note 538.116 by GRANPA::MWANNEMACHER "RIP Amos, you will be missed" >>>

    
    
>    Sorry, Jim.  God is the highest authority for Roman Catholics.
 
	According to Church doctrine, the Pope can choose to speak
	for God.

Jim   

>	Now, what would your position be if the Pope declared that women
>	could be ordained? He could do this. And in fact he can do it
>	in such a way as to invoke infallibility for the declaration,
>	a VERY basic tenet of the Faith.

In fact, he cannot do this.

This shows a basic misunderstanding of the authority of the Pope and of
infallibility.

The Pope _cannot_ make up some new teaching and declare it to be infallible.

He can only "confirm the brethren" by declaring that something which has
always been taught by the church is an infallible doctrine.  He only does
this when a long-standing doctrine is called into question.

/john

P.S.: Meg's reference to "heresy" is a reference to a statement I made in
=wn=.  Someone had trotted out several statements about women which they
didn't like.  Two of them, in particular, were extremely nasty and were
definitely not part of the Church's teaching.  I pointed out that the
authors of both of those statements were men labeled at the time as
heretics.

Oh, and by the way, if all of the bishops of the world _did_ decide that
the ordination of women was OK, I would have absolutely no objections.

/john

             <<< Note 538.118 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>

>In fact, he cannot do this.

	You may want to write him and let him know his limitations. 

>The Pope _cannot_ make up some new teaching and declare it to be infallible.

	He can decide that long-standing doctrine has been in error and
	declare a change. As John XXIII did.

Jim

             <<< Note 538.119 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>

>Oh, and by the way, if all of the bishops of the world _did_ decide that
>the ordination of women was OK, I would have absolutely no objections.

John,	I didn't ask about all the bishops in the world. I only asked
	about one, the Bishop of Rome.

Jim

 ZZ   had this been posted by a Unitarian I would find nothing wrong with it.
    
    Oh...I get it.  Special right to write under the guise of association.
    Look Meg, Either everybody has the right or nobody has the right.  I
    took valuing differences a few years ago and I brought this point up. 
    It seems the black youth a few years ago felt they had the right to use
    pejorative terms especially toward women of their own race.  Ho's and
    bitches are a few amongst others and of course the "N" word.  Sorry,
    that just doesn't cut it.
    
    One could easily find demons in "Jesus Christ Superstar", "Joseph and
    the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat", and others no doubt.  Plays that
    are promoted on Broadway no less.  Quite frankly, I don't see the need
    to have an anurism over these plays and I sure as heck don't think this 
    poem posted in here is anything to have a hissy fit over.  
    
    -Jack
    

    
    
    Sheeeeeeesh!!!!
    
    meg's "offended"..... excuse me....
    
    Christianity is the number one pot-shot magnet in the world (deservedly
    or otherwise, including in here). Just take a look at some of the stuff
    in the "JOKES" note...
     
    and meg's offended for someone else....

    I may be mistaken, I have been before, it will happen again, but, I
    believe Meg's aim is at the messenger, not the message.  
    
    This reply was written using the Ronco Comma, Inserter.  

>	He can decide that long-standing doctrine has been in error and
>	declare a change. As John XXIII did.

John XXIII issued no infallible pronouncements during his term as pope.

No long-standing doctrine can or ever has been declared changed.

If you're referring to "Extra ecclesiam nulla salus", that is still the
doctrine of the Church.  The new understanding of that doctrine, reached
at Vatican II, is that the Church does not know all the ways that God has
of bringing people into the Church.  Yet "outside the Church there is no
salvation" is still the doctrine, stated in paragraph 846 of the universal
catechism just published.  It can never be changed.

/john

re .121

I already answered that.  There is no "what if".  He can't and won't.

/john

    
    re: .124
    
    Then meg needs to take a chill-pill or a humor-pill... whichever is
    easier to swallow...
    

re:  .122
    
			  (__)
                          (oo)
                   /-------\/ 
                  / |     || \ 
                 *  ||W---|| He said, "hissy fit".  Sexist swine!! 
                    ~~    ~~  

    

> Oh, and by the way, if all of the bishops of the world _did_ decide that
> the ordination of women was OK, I would have absolutely no objections.


This is curious.

What's the rationale for changing the way you feel about something due
to your strong beliefs simply because other human beings change their
opinions?

    ^What's the rationale for changing the way you feel about something due
    ^to your strong beliefs simply because other human beings change their
    ^opinions?
    
    That what religion is. Believing what someone else says instead of
    evaluating the facts.

The unity of the episcopate is more important than what I consider a minor
issue.  It is important that all bishops recognize each other as bishops.
Their agreement on what a bishop is all that matters to me.

/john

             <<< Note 538.131 by COVERT::COVERT "John R. Covert" >>>
>      -< Combined decision of _all_ bishops is guaranteed to be correct >-

	This should be sung from the pulpit to a background chorus of
	"We Are The World".

Jim

    
    Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Men.
    
    Now, get outta my face, you heathen swine.

    How sexist.

    
    A very Joyous Season to you all (friend and foe alike)...
    
    Be safe... and enjoy...
    
    
     I'm out of here until Jan. 2, 1996
    
    All the best...
    
    Andy
    

    Is he gone yet?

    
    Happy Holidays Andy!
    
    -b

>The unity of the episcopate is more important than what I consider a minor
>issue.  It is important that all bishops recognize each other as bishops.
>Their agreement on what a bishop is all that matters to me.


So, unless I miss my guess, what this says is that the issues aren't really
important at all.

Subject: Merry Christmas I gua-ron-tee!!!

The Cajun Night Before Christmas
- By "Trosclair"

'Twas the night  before Christmas
An' all t'ru de house
Dey don't a t'ing pass
Not even a mouse.

De chirren been nezzle
Good snug on de flo'
An' Mama pass de pepper
T'ru de crack on de do'.

Den' Mama in de fireplace
Done roas' up de ham
Stir up de gumbo
An' make bake de yam.

Den out on de by-you
Dey got such a clatter
Make soun' like old Boudreau
Done fall off his ladder.

I run like a rabbit
To got to de do'
Trip over de dorg
An' fall on de flo'!

As I look out de do'
In de light o' de moon
I t'ink "Manh, you crazy
Or got ol' too soon."

Cuz dere on de by-you
W'en I stretch ma neck stiff
Dere's eight alligator
A pullin' de skiff.

An' a little fat drover
Wit' a long pole-ing stick
I know r'at away
Got to be ole St. Nick.

Mo' fas'er an fas'er 
De 'gator dey came
He whistle an' holler
An' call dem by name:

"Ha, Gaston!
Ha, Tiboy!
Ha, Pierre an' Alcee!
Gee, Ninnette!
Gee, Suzette!
Celeste an' Renee!"

"To de top o' de porch
To de top o' de wall
Make crawl, alligator,
An' be sho' you don' fall."

Like Tante Flo's cat
T'ru de treetop he fly
W'en de big ole houn' dorg
Come a run hisse'f by.

Like dat up de porch
Dem ole' 'gator clim!
Wit' de skiff full o' toy
An' St. Nicklus behin'.

Den on top de porch roof
It soun' like de hail
W'en all dem big 'gator
Done sot down dey tail.

Den down de chimney 
I yell wit' a bam
An' St. Nicklus fall
An' sit on de yam.

"Sacre!" he axclaim
"Ma pant got a hole
I done sot ma'se'f
on dem red hot coal."

He got on his foots
An' jump like a cat
Out to de flo'
Where he lan' wit' a SPLAT!

He was dress in musk-rat
From his head to his foot
An' his clothes is all dirty
Wit' ashes an' soot.

A sack full o' playt'ing
He t'row on his back
He looked like a burglar
An' dass fo' a fack.

His eyes how dey shine
His dimple, how merry!
Maybe he been drink
De wine from blackberry.

His cheek wase like rose
His nose like a cherry
On secon' t'ought maybe
He lap up de sherry.

Wit' snow-white chin whisker
An' quiverin' belly
He shook w'en he laugh
Like de stromberry jelly!

But a wink in his eye
An' a shook o' his head
Make my confi-dence dat
I don' got to be scared.

He don' do no talkin'
Gone straight to his work
Put playt'ing in sock
An' den turn wit' a jerk.

He put bot' his han'
Dere on top o' his head
Cas' an eye on de chimney
An' den he done said:

"Wit' all o' dat fire
An' dem burnin' hot flame
Me I ain' goin' back
By de way dat I came."

So he run out de do'
An' he clim to de roof
He ain' no fool, him
For to make one more goof.

He jump in his skiff
An' crack his big whip.
De 'gator move down
An' don' make one slip.

An' I hear him shout loud
As a splashin' he go
"Merry Christmas to all
'Til I saw you some mo'!"

    So, that's what your daughter is into? Relax Jack, she'll be just fine.
    8^)

Nah. She's not in Loooosiana anymore. She's doing her doctorate in
Bethlehem, PA. That came from someone else.

    Oh, PA, well, I guess this is the end....

    
      Well, other 'Boxers will be grieved to know I've decided to burn 4
     days of vacation, and won't be noting in here after today until 96.
    
      Happy holidays to all.  I'm going skiing and more skiing, in my
     wimpy geezer way.
    
      bb

 Have a good one -bb





 Jim

    taking the wives?

	I think God heard my plea. Last night, and on the way to work, I got to
hear Madonna! YES! This IS going to be a good Christmas!

	I also got this toy for my niece that will drive my brother inlaw
batty! This fly buzzes around, and you have to press the square to see if you
got it. It's a riot, but it will also drive him batty. My sister will be too
caught up with the baby to even hear it. :-)


Glen

    
    I heard a funny Christmas song this morning - went something like "The
    first thing at Christmas that's such a pain to me".
    
    I actually laughed.  Guess I'm not a grinch after all 8^).
    
    

    Yeah...Archie Bunkers fourth day was..."HANGovas!", except one time
    when he says, "HEY EDITH GET ME A BEER THERE!!!...."

 Santa Claus drives a Hyundai when going to work.  I saw him this morning
 gassing it up, then heading south on 93.  It was a red Hyundai, btw, and
 when I saw him in the station paying for his gas I said " mornin' Santa",
 he kinda grumbled and paid his bill and took off.



 Jim

    
     re, .145 - yep.  All of my wives are better skiers than me :-(
    
      bb

    You don't have to be good to enjoy skiing.  Have fun and stay out of
    the woods unless of course you meant to be there.  

    
    deb,  that's the "12 pains of christmas"...is it a most amusing song
    (imnsho)...and i am still waiting to hear that song sung by a little
    girl that goes something like "there's something in the chimney and i
    don't know what it is and it's been there all week long..."..it's sad
    song, but cute nonetheless...:>
    
    

| <<< Note 538.148 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| Yeah...Archie Bunkers fourth day was..."HANGovas!", except one time
| when he says, "HEY EDITH GET ME A BEER THERE!!!...."

	That's the 3rd day, Jack. The fourth day is the Christmas card guy!

| <<< Note 538.152 by GAVEL::JANDROW "Green-Eyed Lady..." >>>


| girl that goes something like "there's something in the chimney and i
| don't know what it is and it's been there all week long..."..it's sad
| song, but cute nonetheless...:>

	I heard that this morning on the way to work. I LUV that song!


Glen

    Glen, damnit do you always have to be against me?!  It was the FOURTH
    day.  I say it's the fourth day!!!!
    
    awwww....thanks I feel better now

| <<< Note 538.155 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| Glen, damnit do you always have to be against me?!  

	As long as you continue to be Jack Martin...yes. :-)

| It was the FOURTH day.  I say it's the fourth day!!!!

	The 2nd day is stringing up the lights, the 3rd day is Archie, the 4th
day is chrismassss cards, and the 5th day is 5 months of bills. So there! Btw
Jack, the 8th day reminds me of you..... the very last time they hit the 8th
day..... ;-)



Glen

    
    Well, Merry Christmas to all you 'box denizens.
    
    Hava safe and happy one!!!
    
    jc
    

    Youngest sister is bringing my brother's son down for the holidays.  it
    will be the first xmas in almost three years that my bro' and his son
    have had together.  (long story, but add in PTSS on a VNE vet and you
    have the picture)  He appears to be far enough along and the treatment
    appears to be working well enough she feels comfortable in leaving them
    together.
    
    meg
    
    

The Electronic Telegraph  Friday 22 December 1995  World News

Israelis leave Bethlehem as Arabs rejoice

By Anton La Guardia in Bethlehem

THE BELLS of the Church of the Nativity rang out joyfully and
fireworks lit up the sky yesterday when the last Israeli soldiers left the
centre of Bethlehem in a tumult of cheering, festive gunfire and amplified
Arabic pop music.

Palestinian youth activists, who once led their peers in throwing stones at
the soldiers, helped clear the path for the Israeli convoy, and stopped the
hotheads from kicking the vehicles and spitting at the departing soldiers.

A first contingent of blue-uniformed Palestinian security forces took over
the police station on Manger Square opposite the church, the traditional
site of Jesus's birth, waving their Kalashnikov rifles and flashing V for
Victory signs.

Within minutes of the Israelis' departure, Arab youths had climbed to the
roof to raise the Palestinian flag They also tore down the surrounding
fence.

A fir tree within the compound, which is traditionally decorated for
Christmas, was also symbolically liberated. The Christmas celebrations in
Jesus's birthplace had turned into a celebration of freedom.

"I cannot describe how happy we feel. For the first time we will be
celebrating Christmas with the Palestinian Authority"

Large Palestinian flags - red, black, white and green - hung from the Church
of Nativity and from a mosque opposite in a show of equal treatment for both
religions. A huge portrait of Yasser Arafat was draped across the facade of
another building. A cloud of bunting - flags, portraits of Mr Arafat,
coloured plastic strips and kitsch pictures of the Holy Family with the
newborn Jesus - hung over the crowd of thousands of Palestinians.

On the municipal building green neon letters spelled out Merry Christmas.

Maha Saca, 45, said: "I cannot describe how happy we feel. For the first
time we will be celebrating Christmas with the Palestinian Authority.

"This year Christmas is special because we have our political liberation.
Jesus was the first Palestinian fighter, and also the first martyr. And
Palestinian fighters are now liberating Bethlehem."

The withdrawal is the latest and perhaps the most joyful stage of Israel's
step-by-step departure from Palestinian cities in the occupied West Bank,
leading to elections next month.

But the handover was delayed by several days because Israel had not yet
completed a bypass to allow Jewish settlers to reach Jerusalem safely
without going through Bethlehem.

While Palestinians mingled beneath the Christmas lights of Manger Square, a
senior Right-wing rabbi said Jews should tear their shirts as a sign of
mourning whenever they saw a holy city such as Bethlehem under Palestinian
rule.

Crowds had gathered in Bethlehem all day to watch the last Israelis await
their orders to leave. Municipal workers were putting the finishing touches
to the decorations, and erected a stand on the roof of the church, in
expectation that Mr Arafat would attend midnight Mass in Bethlehem and
address the crowd later.

"We feel happiness, anticipation, and fear for the future"

A woman took her baby, dressed in an Arab headscarf and holding a
Palestinian flag, to greet one of the Israelis at the gate. "This is an
Israeli soldier. He is leaving," she told her child.

The Israeli, wearing a bullet-proof vest, smiled awkwardly at first and then
agreed to be photographed.

But like a prisoner being released after a long sentence, Bethlehem's joy is
mixed with an indefinable angst. Yousef Hroub, 42, said: "We feel happiness,
anticipation, and fear for the future. We are afraid that we will not
achieve our ambitions of a Palestinian state and democracy."

Israeli forces have left Bethlehem, but they will control the checkpoints
leading into the city.

Mr Arafat claims he is leading Palestinians to independence, but in the
meantime Israel will dominate Palestinian life. There are also doubts about
the nature of Mr Arafat's rule and the democracy he has promised.

There is also the worry, rarely voiced, that the decline in the Christian
population may not be halted. Once the majority in and around Bethlehem,
Christians are now outnumbered by Muslims.

The reasons are complex, and include a low Christian birth rate, the influx
of refugees from previous wars and a high emigration rate.

Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc

    Merry Christmas to all my 'box friends! Have a great one!!!

    Glenn:
    
    Merry Christmas to you and your family...you are a bright light here in
    da Box.
    
    NR

    8;^}
    
    shanks.
    
    

Merry Christmas to all,
And to all, a good night.

	Merry Christmas, Jack!

 Ho ho ho Merry Christmas everybody!

                           The Christmas Sermon
                             to be given by
                     The Lord Archbishop of Canterbury
               The Most Revd & Right Honourable George L Carey
                             25 December 1995
                             in his Cathedral
                        Church of Christ, Canterbury


ADDRESS BY THE ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY
CHRISTMAS DAY 1995
CANTERBURY CATHEDRAL

So the shepherds hurried off and found Mary and Joseph and the baby who was
lying in a manger.

I have always found the Christmas story to be unfailingly topical. Whether
one thinks of the problems facing refugees, or the homeless, or the wider
issues of the search for hope and meaning, there is something in the
message of Christmas that speaks to them all. Take the central story of the
Nativity itself. It is the story of the beginning of a new family; a
nuclear family if ever there was one; a holy family.

Families have been very much in the news in recent weeks. Over the last few
days the Prince and Princess of Wales, together with the children, have
been at the forefront of our prayers as we have sensed afresh some of the
pain they carry.

Only a short while before their news broke we all shared too in the sudden
grief of a family struck by tragedy. The death of the headmaster Philip
Laurence evoked this sad letter from his 8 year old son Lucien. He wrote to
Father Christmas: `I hope you won't think I am a nuisance but I have
changed my mind as to what I want for Christmas. I wanted to have a
telescope, but I now want to have my Daddy back, because without my Daddy
to help I will not be able to see the stars anyway. I am the only boy in
the family now, but I am not very big and I need my Daddy to help me stop
my Mummy and sister from crying'. Very few things are more traumatic than
the loss of mother or father from the family circle.

Shortly before that terrible event a very different family had been in the
limelight as Rosemary West was sentenced for her part in the awful murders
she and her husband had committed. It came as a horrific reminder that the
strong bonds that bind families together can go terribly wrong. Instead of
being places of nurture and support, families can become webs of vice,
deceit, and cruelty.

But what of the Holy Family? What can we learn from its pattern of
relationships and mutual support that are still of importance for today?

There were, I believe, three `R's' which were of great importance to the
Holy Family and each of their insights have something important to offer as
we reflect on family life in Society today. As we do so let me say that I
am not wanting to exclude in any way those who are single, or who are
single parents. After all, the family of Jesus includes us all.

The three `R's' are these - Reverence, Reliance, and Religion.

First, Reverence. The starting point for any Christian understanding of
humanity must be that we are made in the image of God. But the birth of
Christ gives that understanding greater depth. No longer is it merely the
fact that we bear God's likeness - now God has taken flesh for himself. He
has become human. And, as we gaze with Mary and Joseph at the baby in her
arms, so we are caught up in their awe and wonder not just for that child,
but for all children and for all humanity.

One of the most shocking things about my visit to Bosnia was to hear how
that reverence for the humanity of others had been systematically destroyed
through exclusivist nationalism. Ethnic cleansing came about as human
beings were systematically deprived of all rights and traumatised through
bestial treatment that is almost too shocking to report.

Likewise, as the full horror of what had happened in the Wests' home in
Gloucester emerged, so it became very plain that they had consistently
treated their fellow human beings as things and not as people.

That, of course, was an extreme case, but we hear echoes of it elsewhere in
racist and sexist remarks, in the belittling of the mentally disabled, in
the disparagement of the elderly, or those commonplace references to people
as `beasts', `scum' or `monsters'.

As Christians we must challenge everything that fails to revere the image
of God in others. We must also encourage everything that gives people their
true worth.

And, as we are reminded today, nowhere is more important as the fertile
seedbed of such reverence than the relationships between members of
families. As the different generations, whether married or single, offer
support to one another - as commitment and concern is given within the
family circle - so families grow through mutual respect and reverence. As
Jean Vanier writes, `The union of the man and woman, and the life of their
children, are there for the growth of each other'.

Second, Reliance. In the Holy Family we see the example of trust and
faithfulness bearing fruit in strengthening relationships. I love the story
of Jesus at the age of twelve - a typical youngster you might say - testing
the boundaries of his independence, as he stays on in the Temple after his
parents have set out on their travels.

Rightly we focus on what it says about his relationship with God, but there
is also the sub-text that reveals his own secure relationship with his
human parents. He knew full well that they would not disown him or desert
him and, from that position of security, he, in turn, could grow to
maturity.

Such reliance and trust is vital, not just for families, but for societies
as a whole. One of the saddest things I hear on my visit to Sarajevo was
this comment from a leading Imam in Sarajevo. He said, `Over the last four
years neighbours have lost their trust in one another and it is one of the
most grievous losses of the war'.

Trust and reliance are equally important to us in our more normal
environment. They must not be treated lightly. They are something to be
cherished and nurtured, particularly in our family lives, for children
cannot rely psychologically on the love of their parents if the latter do
not make the time and effort to show it.

I remember reading this comment on life in one clergy family, written by
one of the children, `We always had to knock (at the study door), and often
our father did not look up from what he was doing. Sometimes he would look
over his glasses to see whether it was an important person - or just us'. I
am sure if you had asked that clergyman how he felt about his children he
would have spoken strongly of their importance. Yet that was not what they
experienced - and it comes as a salutary lesson to us all.

Such reliance and trust needs to be built up over time and through spending
time with each other. One of the recent trends that social analysts have
detected is the gradual increase in hours worked each week by those
involved in a variety of management roles. With the threat of downsizing
and redundancy hanging over many, it is easy to see why, for the sake of
their families and to keep their jobs, people are working longer hours -
but we should be in no doubt that there will be a price to pay in terms of
relationships and family life, in time lost to their upbuilding and growth.

Reverence, Reliance and, thirdly, Religion. Christian leaders are expected
to preach about religion. Perhaps we are not so good at talking about its
cohesive importance to family life.

Joseph and Mary brought Jesus to pray and, later, to attend the Synagogue.
Religion also provided the annual rhythms of life as festival followed
festival through the year.

Their religion was not merely an expression of emotional response, or
regular attendance at public worship, rather it was a matter of personal
commitment. In other words it was religion at its best - for the word
`religio' means `I bind myself to'. In terms of faith it means to commit
oneself to walking in God's ways and to keeping his laws; to learning those
habits of heart and mind that lead our children and ourselves to love God
and his Church.

Having such reverence, reliance and religion at the hear of family life
will transform it. It will lead us to have a huge capacity for tolerance
and forgiveness. Such must have been the background to Tennyson's poem
where he talks of the moment when his family was rent asunder by a quarrel:

"As thro' the land at eve we went
and pluck'd the ripen'd ears.
We fell out, my wife and I,
O we fell out I know not why,
and kiss'd again with tears
and blessings on the falling out
that all the more endears,
when we fall out with those we love,
and kiss again with tears!"

Yes, where there is love such a falling out can become a blessing. But
often it is not and we are left with the ache of what might have been.

But these attributes did not make the Holy Family an introverted one. Bound
closely together, they looked out to the world. No sooner had the baby been
born than shepherds - some of the outcasts of society - came to share in
their joy. The Holy Family, in time, became the birthplace of the family of
the Church - in which all of us, young and old, are welcome and belong.

Likewise the values nourished in good families are not for hoarding in
private foxholes but are there to be shared with the wider society. If we
fail as a society to show all people that we care about them and that we
are committed to them, we are failing to obey God's commandment to love our
neighbours as ourselves.

Mary, we read, pondered the experiences of that first Christmas Day in her
heart. She was amazed at the goodness of God. She and her young family
advanced on their adventure of discovering the joys of reverence, reliance
and religion in family life. As they did so, so they discovered more of
God's love and strength. The love which is, of course, the true message of
Christmas for us all.

                         MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS
                            POPE JOHN PAUL II
                              "Urbi et Orbi"
                              Christmas 1995
           
             1. "You are my Son, today I have begotten you" (Heb 1:5).
             The words of today's Liturgy introduce us
             into the mystery of the eternal birth, beyond time,
             of the Son of God,
             the Son, of one Being with the Father.
             The Gospel of John says:
             "In the beginning was the Word,
             and the Word was with God,
             and the Word was God.
             He was in the beginning with God" (Jn 1:1-2).
             We profess the same truth in the Creed:
             "God from God, Light from Light,
             true God from true God,
             begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father;
             through him all things were made.
             For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
             by the power of the Holy Spirit
             he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
             and was made man".
             This is the joyful news of Christmas,
             as transmitted by the Evangelists
             and the Church's apostolic tradition.
             Today we wish to announce it "to the City and to the World",
             Urbi et Orbi.

             2. "He was in the world,
             and the world was made through him" (Jn 1:10).
             The One born on Christmas night
             comes among his own.
             Why does he come?
             He comes to give "new strength",
             a "power" different from that of the world.
             He comes in poverty to a stable at Bethlehem,
             with the greatest of gifts:
             he gives us divine adoption.
             To all who welcome him
             he gives the "power to become children of God" (Jn 1:12),
             in order that in him, the eternal Son of the eternal Father,
             they may be "born of God" (cf. Jn 1:13).
             In him, in fact, in the Babe of this holy night,
             there is life (cf. Jn 1:4):
             life that knows no death;
             the life of God himself;
             the life which, as Saint John says, is the light of men.
             The light shines in the darkness,
             but the darkness did not accept it (cf. Jn 1:4-5).
             On Christmas Night there appears the light that is Christ.
             It shines and penetrates people's hearts,
             filling them with the new life.
             It enkindles in them the eternal light,
             that ever enlightens the human person
             even when the darkness of death envelops the body.
             Precisely for this "the Word became flesh
             and dwelt among us" (Jn 1:14).

             3. "He came to his own,
             and his own people received him not" (Jn 1:11),
             as recorded in the Prologue of John's Gospel.
             The Evangelist Luke confirms this truth,
             and recalls that
             "there was no place for them in the inn" (Lk 2:7).
             "For them", that is, for Mary and Joseph
             and for the Child about to be born.
             This is an idea often expressed in our Christmas carols:
             "His own people did not receive him..."
             In the great inn of the whole human community,
             as well as in the little inn of our own hearts,
             how many poor people even today,
             at the threshold of the Year 2000,
             come to knock!

             4. Christmas is the celebration of welcome and of love!
             Will there be room, on this day,
             for the scattered families of Bosnia-Hercegovina,
             who are still anxiously waiting for the results of peace,
             the peace recently proclaimed?
             And the refugees of Rwanda, will they
             be able to return to a country that is really reconciled?
             Will the people of Burundi
             be able to find once more the path of fraternal peace?
             Will the peoples of Sri Lanka
             be able to look forward, hand in hand,
             to a future of brotherhood and solidarity?
             Will the people of Iraq finally be able to return
             to a normal existence,
             after the long years of embargo?
             Will there be room for the inhabitants of Kurdistan,
             of whom many are obliged, once more, to face the winter
             in the most difficult conditions?
             And how could we forget our brothers and sisters
             of southern Sudan, still exposed to an armed violence
             fomented without respite?
             Nor, indeed, can we forget the people of Algeria,
             who continue to suffer,
             the victims of harsh trials.

             It is in this hurt world that the Infant Jesus,
             in all his love and frailty, appears!
             He comes to free those caught up in hatred,
             and slaves of particular interests, and divisions.
             He comes to open new perspectives.
             The Son of God encourages the hope that,
             in spite of so many great difficulties,
             peace will finally appear on the horizon.
             There are promising signs of this,
             even in troubled areas such as
             Northern Ireland and the Middle East.
             Let people open their hearts to
             the Word of God made flesh
             in the poverty of Bethlehem.

             5. This is the Mystery which we celebrate today:
             God "has spoken to us by a Son" (Heb 1:2).
             In many and in varied ways
             God had spoken through the Prophets,
             but when "the fullness of time" (Gal 4:4) had arrived,
             He spoke through the Son.
             The Son is the reflection of the Father's glory,
             the very stamp of his nature,
             upholding the universe by the power of his word.
             This is what the author of the Letter to the Hebrews
             says about the new-born Son of Mary (cf. Heb 1:3).
             Although through him God the Father created the universe,
             this Child is also the Firstborn
             and the Heir of all creation (cf. Heb 1:1-2).
             This poor Babe,
             for whom "there was no room in the inn",
             in spite of appearances,
             is the sole Heir of the whole of creation.
             He came to share with us this birthright of his,
             so that we, having become children of divine adoption,
             might have a part in the inheritance that he brought
             with him into the world.
             Eternal Word, today we contemplate your glory,
             "glory as of the only Son from the Father,
             full of grace and truth" (cf. Jn 1:14).
             Over the airwaves, may the joyful message of your Birth,
             ever old and ever new,
             reach the peoples and nations of every continent
             and bring peace to the world.

	Nativitie

	Immensity cloister'd in thy dear womb,
	Now leaves his well-belov'd imprisonment,
	There he hath made himself to his intent
	Weak enough, now into our world to come;
	But Oh, for thee, for Him hath the inn no room?
	Yet lay him in this stall, and from the Orient,
	Stars, and wisemen will travel to prevent
	The effect of Herod's jealous general doom.
	Seest thou, my soul, with thy faith's eyes, how He
	Which fills all place, yet none holds Him doth lie?
	Was not his pity towards thee wondrous high,
	That would have need to be pitied by thee?
	Kiss Him, and with Him into Egypt go,
	With His kind mother, who partakes thy woe.

						John Donne

    Merry Christmas everyone!
    
    I'm just taking a breather between morning presents/meal and evening
    presents/meal.  Am also watching "It's a Wonderful Life" which I am
    glad is on again this afternoon.  I started watching it at midnight
    last night while I wrapped presents, but gave up at 1:30am.  Now I have
    the opportunity to watch the rest.
    
    My brother gave me the Dilbert screensaver this morning which is what
    prompted to turn the PC on in the first place - it's a laugh!
    
    Hope everyone enjoys their holidays.  
    
    Chris

    I was so shocked yesterday when a USPS truck stopped in front of my
    house a nd a postal worker in a Santa outfit dropped off a package from
    Jack DelBalso with my very own PEZ dispenser...now my Christmas IS
    complete...yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus, at least he lives in
    Mobnt Vernon, NH...thanks H  Jack!

You're welcome, !Roger. Mostly, I was getting sick of hearing you beg.

Sorry it was an Easter bunny instead of a Santa - it was all I had on
hand.

Merry Christmas, you horrible rabble!

As Christmas seems to have become predominantly materialistic, what'd Santa 
bring you lot, then?  My favourite present was a wok, enabling me to cook my 
evil curries more effectively, amongst a myriad of other stuff including a 
synthesized parrot of all things.

My other Christmas present of note at this moment is indigestion, having 
returned from my parents abode where sumptous food in copious amounts was 
produced... no doubt I'll be invited back over the next few days to help 
consume the inevitable turkey & chips, turkey casserole, turkey curry etc!  :)

Chris.

    
    
    
    Hope everyone had a wonnerful holiday.  A belated Marry Jimble to all
    boxers and their loved ones.
    
    
    Mike

	I got gifts, but being with family beat the hell out of them!

THE TWELVE THANK-YOU NOTES OF CHRISTMAS

My dearest darling Edward,                        Dec 25
   What a wonderful surprise has just greeted me!  That
sweet partridge, in that lovely little pear-tree; what
an enchanting, romantic, poetic present!  Bless you, and
thank you.
                    Your deeply loving
                              Emily.

Beloved Edward,                                   Dec 26
   The two turtle-doves arrived this morning, and are cooing
away in the pear-tree as I write.  I'm so touched and grateful!
                    With undying love, as always,
                              Emily.

My darling Edward,                                Dec 27
   You do think of the most original presents!  Who ever
thought of sending anybody three French hens?  Do they
really come all the way from France?  It's a pity we have
no chicken coops, but I expect we'll find some.  Anyway,
thank you so much; they're lovely.
                    Your devoted Emily.

Dearest Edward,                                   Dec 28
   What a surprise!  Four calling birds arrived this morning.
They are very sweet, even if they do call rather loudly -
they make telephoning almost impossible - but I expect they'll
calm down when they get used to their new home.  Anyway, I'm
very grateful, of course I am.
                    Love from Emily.

Dearest Edward,                                   Dec 29
   The mailman has just delivered five most beautiful gold
rings, one for each finger, and all fitting perfectly!
A really lovely present!  Lovelier, in a way, than birds,
which do take rather a lot of looking after.  The four that
arrived yesterday are still making a terrible row, and I'm
afraid none of us got much sleep last night.  Mother says
she wants to use the rings to "wring" their necks.  Mother
has such a sense of humor.  This time she's only joking,
I think, but I do know what she means.  Still, I love the rings.
                    Bless you,
                         Emily.

Dear Edward,                                      Dec 30
   Whatever I expected to find when I opened the front door
this morning, it certainly wasn't six socking great geese
laying eggs all over the porch.  Frankly, I rather hoped
that you had stopped sending me birds.  We have no room
for them, and they've already ruined the croquet lawn.
I know you meant well, but let's call a halt, shall we?
                    Love,
                         Emily.

Edward,                                           Dec 31
   I thought I said NO MORE BIRDS.  This morning I woke
up to find no more than seven swans, all trying to get
into our tiny goldfish pond.  I'd rather not think what's
happened to the goldfish.  The whole house seems to be
full of birds, to say nothing of what they leave behind
them, so please, please, stop!
                    Your Emily.

                                                  Jan 1
   Frankly, I prefer the birds.  What am I to do with eight
milkmaids?  And their cows!  Is this some kind of a joke?
If so, I'm afraid I don't find it very amusing.
                    Emily.

Look here, Edward,                                Jan 2
   This has gone far enough.  You say you're sending me
nine ladies dancing.  All I can say is, judging from the
way they dance, they're certainly not ladies.  The village
just isn't accustomed to seeing a regiment of shameless
viragos, with nothing on but their lipstick, cavorting
round the green, and it's Mother and I who get the blame.
If you value our friendship, which I do (less and less),
kindly stop this ridiculous behavior at once!
                    Emily.

                                                  Jan 3
   As I write this letter, ten disgusting old men are
prancing up and down all over what used to be the garden,
before the geese and the swans and the cows got at it.
And several of them, I have just noticed, are taking
inexcusable liberties with the milkmaids.  Meanwhile the
neighbors are trying to have us evicted.  I shall never
speak to you again.
                    Emily.

                                                  Jan 4
   This is the last straw!  You know I detest bagpipes!
The place has now become something between a menagerie
and a madhouse, and a man from the council has just
declared it unfit for habitation.  At least Mother has
been spared this last outrage; they took her away yesterday
afternoon in an ambulance.  I hope you're satisfied.

Sir,                                              Jan 5
   Our client, Miss Emily Wilbraham, instructs me to
inform you that with the arrival on her premises at 7:30
this morning of the entire percussion section of the
Boston Symphony Orchestra, and several of their friends,
she has no course left open to her but to seek an injunction
to prevent you importuning her further.  I am making
arrangements for the return of much assorted livestock.
                    I am, Sir, yours faithfully,
                         G. Creep
                         Attorney at law.

    
    I am currently plugged into my new portable CD player, listening to
    Gilbert & Sullivan's _Yeomen of the Guard_.
    
    I talked to my sister & mother on the telephone and I had dinner at
    Christine's house.
    
    It was a good day.
    
    Now I'm back at work 8^p.
    
    8^)
    

O rapture!

 
  I had a nice Christmas with my ex and the kids.  Scott, my youngest, received
 a set of drums from his mom and I and I fully expect that by Wednesday night
 they will be tossed out in the snow, or his mother will be driven completely
 nuts.  He also got 2 copies of "Apollo 13", one of which I liberated from him
 (for which I will compensate him).


 Also went to see my eldest (Sean) and found him not home and as I was
 returning to my place, encountered he and his girlfriend walking.  I
 picked them up (they were on their way to dinner [he didn't realize
 that not many restaurants were open] and a movie.  So, I took them
 out to eat at a Chinese buffet and we had a nice time.


 All in all, a nice Christmas, but I'll confess that I am glad it is
 over.

 Now, if I can just resist the urge I have to go buy a new VCR..



 Jim

    .176
    
    You certainly sanititized that version :-)
    

    
    The thing that really makes Christmas great, in my opinion,
    is the fact that I still have fairly young children; a
    10 year old daughter and a 7 (almost 8) year old son.
    The experience of Chritmas is amplified thousand-fold by
    children; the lights are pretty, but the lights reflected
    in a child's face are truly beautiful.
    
    Perhaps the most enjoyable aspect of Christmas this year
    was giving my son a Playmobile pirate ship. First, I
    got to watch him open it, and then I got to sit on the
    floor with him for a couple hours and assemble and play
    with it.
    
    Jack Delbalso mentioned that toys today have "the play
    taken out of them". I agree to some point, but the
    Playmobil toys are wonderful. Toys like their pirate
    ship didn't exist when I was a kid; I wish it did!
    It's totally cool!
    
    -b

    for me it was Atlehi finding the tree decorated with lollyops and the
    stockings and bears from Santa.  We can't do candy canes anymore as she
    has a reaction to something in them which creates extreme nausea and
    other issues.  
    
    also a new K.D. Lang CD for me!  Yea!!!!!!!!
    
    for the solstice the sunrise was breathtaking, if chilly in the GOG.  A
    great group and a lot of fun.
    
    meg

Z    5th day is 5 months of bills. So there! Btw
Z    Jack, the 8th day reminds me of you..... the very last time they hit
Z    the 8th day..... ;-)
    
    I heard the song a few days ago.  Is that the line that says..."Get A
    Job You Bum!!"

Network Working Group                                         B. Hancock
Request for Comments: 1882       Network-1 Software and Technology, Inc.
Category: Informational                                    December 1995


               The 12-Days of Technology Before Christmas

Status of this Memo

   This memo provides information for the Internet community.  This memo
   does not specify an Internet standard of any kind.  Distribution of
   this memo is unlimited.

Discussion

   On the first day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          A database with a broken b-tree (what the hell is a b-tree
          anyway?)

   On the second day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Two transceiver failures (CRC errors? Collisions? What is
          going on?)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Rebuild WHAT? It's a
          10GB database!)

   On the third day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Three French users (who, of course, think they know
          everything)
          Two transceiver failures (which are now spewing packets all
          over the net)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Backup? What backup?)

   On the fourth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Four calls for support (playing the same Christmas song over
          and over)
          Three French users (Why do they like to argue so much over
          trivial things?)
          Two transceiver failures (How the hell do I know which ones
          they are?)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Pointer error? What's a
          pointer error?)










Hancock                      Informational                      [Page 1]

RFC 1882         12-Days of Technology Before Christmas    December 1995


   On the fifth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Five golden SCSI contacts (Of course they're better than
          silver!)
          Four support calls (Ever notice how time stands still when on
          hold?
          Three French users (No, we don't have footpedals on PC's. Why
          do you ask?)
          Two transceiver failures (If I knew which ones were bad, I
          would know which ones to fix!)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Not till next week? Are
          you nuts?!?!)

   On the sixth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Six games a-playing (On the production network, of course!)
          Five golden SCSI contacts (What do you mean "not terminated!")
          Four support calls (No, don't transfer me again - do you HEAR?
          Damn!)
          Three French users (No, you cannot scan in by putting the page
          to the screen...)
          Two transceiver failures (I can't look at the LEDs - they're
          in the ceiling!)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Norway? That's where this
          was written?)

   On the seventh day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Seven license failures (Expired? When?)
          Six games a-playing (Please stop tying up the PBX to talk to
          each other!)
          Five golden SCSI contacts (What do you mean I need "wide"
          SCSI?)
          Four support calls (At least the Muzak is different this
          time...)
          Three French Users (Well, monsieur, there really isn't an
          "any" key, but...)
          Two transceiver failures (SQE? What is that? If I knew I would
          set it myself!)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (No, I really need to talk
          to Lars - NOW!)













Hancock                      Informational                      [Page 2]

RFC 1882         12-Days of Technology Before Christmas    December 1995


   On the eighth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Eight MODEMs dialing (Who bought these? They're a security
          violation!)
          Seven license failures (How many WEEKS to get a license?)
          Six games a-playing (What do you mean one pixel per packet on
          updates?!?)
          Five golden SCSI contacts (Fast SCSI? It's supposed to be
          fast, isn't it?)
          Four support calls (I already told them that! Don't transfer
          me back - DAMN!)
          Three French users (No, CTL-ALT-DEL is not the proper way to
          end a program)
          Two transceiver failures (What do you mean "babbling
          transceiver"?)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Does anyone speak English
          in Oslo?)

   On the ninth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Nine lady executives with attitude (She said do WHAT with the
          servers?)
          Eight MODEMs dialing (You've been downloading WHAT?)
          Seven license failures (We sent the P.O. two months ago!)
          Six games a-playing (HOW many people are doing this to the
          network?)
          Five golden SCSI contacts (What do you mean two have the same
          ID?)
          Four support calls (No, I am not at the console - I tried that
          already.)
          Three French users (No, only one floppy fits at a time? Why do
          you ask?)
          Two transceiver failures (Spare? What spare?)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (No, I am trying to find
          Lars!  L-A-R-S!)


















Hancock                      Informational                      [Page 3]

RFC 1882         12-Days of Technology Before Christmas    December 1995


   On the tenth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Ten SNMP alerts flashing (What is that Godawful beeping?)
          Nine lady executives with attitude (No, it used to be a mens
          room? Why?)
          Eight MODEMs dialing (What Internet provider? We don't allow
          Internet here!)
          Seven license failures (SPA? Why are they calling us?)
          Six games a-playing (No, you don't need a graphics accelerator
          for Lotus! )
          Five golden SCSI contacts (You mean I need ANOTHER cable?)
          Four support calls (No, I never needed an account number
          before...)
          Three French users (When the PC sounds like a cat, it's a head
          crash!)
          Two transceiver failures (Power connection? What power
          connection?)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (Restore what index
          pointers?)

   On the eleventh day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Eleven boards a-frying (What is that terrible smell?)
          Ten SNMP alerts flashing (What's a MIB, anyway? What's an
          extension?)
          Nine lady executives with attitude (Mauve? Our computer room
          tiles in mauve?)
          Eight MODEMs dialing (What do you mean you let your roommate
          dial-in?)
          Seven license failures (How many other illegal copies do we
          have?!?!)
          Six games a-playing (I told you - AFTER HOURS!)
          Five golden SCSI contacts (If I knew what was wrong, I
          wouldn't be calling!)
          Four support calls (Put me on hold again and I will slash your
          credit rating!)
          Three French users (Don't hang your floppies with a magnet
          again!)
          Two transceiver failures (How should I know if the connector
          is bad?)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (I already did all of
          that!)











Hancock                      Informational                      [Page 4]

RFC 1882         12-Days of Technology Before Christmas    December 1995


   On the twelfth day of Christmas, technology gave to me:
          Twelve virtual pipe connections (There's only supposed to be
          two!)
          Eleven boards a-frying (What a surge suppressor supposed to
          do, anyway?)
          Ten SNMP alerts flashing (From a distance, it does kinda look
          like XMas lights.)
          Nine lady executives with attitude (What do you mean aerobics
          before backups?)
          Eight MODEMs dialing (No, we never use them to connect during
          business hours.)
          Seven license failures (We're all going to jail, I just know
          it.)
          Six games a-playing (No, no - my turn, my turn!)
          Five golden SCSI contacts (Great, just great! Now it won't
          even boot!)
          Four support calls (I don't have that package! How did I end
          up with you!)
          Three French users (I don't care if it is sexy, no more nude
          screen backgrounds!)
          Two transceiver failures (Maybe we should switch to token
          ring...)
          And a database with a broken b-tree (No, operator - Oslo,
          Norway.  We were just talking and were cut off...)

Security Considerations

   Security issues are not discussed in this memo.

Author's Address

   Bill Hancock, Ph.D.
   Network-1 Software & Technology, Inc.
   DFW Research Center
   878 Greenview Dr.
   Grand Prairie, TX  75050

   EMail: hancock@network-1.com
   Phone: (214) 606-8200
   Fax: (214) 606-8220

Hancock                      Informational                      [Page 5]

From:   COVERT::COVERT
To:     US2RMC::"hancock@network-1.com"
Subj:   Re: RFC 1882

Comment:

Suggest title change.  Replace "Before" with "After".

The Twelve Days of Christmas are December 25th through January 5th.

Regards/john

| <<< Note 538.183 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "I press on toward the goal" >>>

| I heard the song a few days ago.  Is that the line that says..."Get A
| Job You Bum!!"

	No, that is the line where the kid is crying and whining. 

    
    	"The Twelve Pains of Christmas"
    
    	I know 8 of them, 6 in the correct order.  What are the rest?
    	I know there's a screaming kid in there who wants candy and has
    	to go to the bathroom, but I forget where that line goes.
    
    
    	 Batteries not included
    	 No parking spaces
    	 Charities
    
    	 6 Facing my in-laws
    	 5 Five months of bills
    	 4 Sending Christmas cards
    	 3 Hangovers
    	 2 Rigging up the lights
    	 1 Finding a Christmas tree
    

    \I know on the third day, Archie says...
    
    Who put the terlet paper there...and...
    Hey Edith get me a beer there....

    
    I got a rock

    
    It wasn't a "rock",
    It was a rock...LOBSTER!!!
    

>    It was a rock...LOBSTER!!!
    
wow, another B52's fan!  :)

Chris.