Conference back40::soapbox

A partially dull rotary mower cuts better than a sharp reel mower if
you have any sort of mixture of grasses in your lawn, especially if
it's been allowed to overgrow.

Besides which, reel mowers are much more difficult to press into double
duty as hedge trimmers.

    
    How about those electric mowers with no wheels...the ones that hover
    on a cushion of air...are they cool, or what?
    

I haven't seen one of those in years. Do they still make them, John?
Betcha they'd make good hedge trimmers . . . 

    
    I don't think they make them any more...but I saw a guy using one just
    the other day.  It seemed to be working well for him, and appeared to
    be especially convenient since he had a small and awkwardly-designed
    front yard.
    

    I heard of two guys who each lost fingers on one hand by trying to trim
    a hedge by lifting a lawn mower to it. They shouldn't have gripped it
    there.

    My 23 year-old autistic son, who is quite similar to "Rainman", mows
    our yard.  He uses a pattern similar to drawing an asterisk without
    lifting the pencil from the paper.  When he gets done, there are no
    lines left in the yard.  Quite a nice job.
    
    -- Jim

>         <<< Note 466.3 by TROOA::COLLINS "The Seal Of Disapproval" >>>
>
>    
>    How about those electric mowers with no wheels...the ones that hover
>    on a cushion of air...are they cool, or what?
 

I don't have one that rides on air but I do have a cordless electric 
mulching mower that I love.  It does an excellent job on the lawn and it's 
quiet and I never have to rake. One handed height adjustment of the cutting 
blade makes the change from a spring cut to a summer cut a breeze.  If I 
let the grass get too long I do have to take two days to cut the it, but 
that's ok.

I get about an hour and a half on a charge (an hour if the grass is really 
long). It recharges 75% in four hours and 100% in 24 hours.

Gotta love it...

geoff   

    i hate caring for my lawn, period!

    Kill your lawn.  Plant low maintenance, climate correct, indigenous
    shrubs, and other plantings.  Use your leaves, shredded from last year 
    as mulch around the bases.  Do not put lawn trimmings, leave or branches 
    and twigs curbside for pick up unless your town has a well run composting
    program where you can pick up the mulch next year to use in your yard. 
    Do not burn them.  
    
    Collect rainwater from your roof using barrels obtained from a variety
    of sources. Very Fine in Central MA for instance has used once,
    polyethylene barrels that make perfect rain collection devices.  Use
    this water for plantings versus city water or water from your well. 
    This is the politically correct and surprisingly low maintenance way to
    a beautifully landscaped yard with virtually no lawn to mow.  See also
    Xeriscape techniques.  
    
    Brian

Brian, what are Xeriscape techniques?

	Chip, don't do anything to it. Add a bunch of dirt and make a bike
trail out of it. 

    In part, xeriscaping is using indigenous plants that commonly found in
    your region or even only in your neck of the woods.  They are low
    maintenance by virtue of being able to thrive given the local soil
    composition and weather patterns.  It avoids introducing plants that
    are foreign to the area and require soil alterations, high maintenance 
    fertilizing and waterings etc.  I believe it also makes use of the 
    available topography of the land for the most part and not stripping, 
    levelling, filling what is there and altering the natural drainage and 
    soil composition.  
    
    Examples would be to not try to plant a lawn in Pheonix AZ but opt for 
    low water consumption plants like succulents instead.  In New England,
    rock gardens, evergreens and hardwoods can be used effectively.  If
    your house was built in an old farm area, use plants that are common to
    the region and try to restore what was there prior.  
    
    The problem lies in that many folks want a lush, green, manicured lawn 
    and all the trimmings versus what is/was there to begin with.  This 
    puts a tremendous strain on the local ecology as it introduces new pests,
    chemicals to control them, uses scarce water resources etc.  Since
    many/most people either do not use a mulching mower or refuse to
    compost, the resultant yard waste goes to a land fill contributing a
    significant amount of unnecessary waste by volume to already
    overburdened disposal facilities in some areas.  This waste along with 
    your everyday garbage will still be there long after you and I are 
    pushing up the daisies so to speak.  If you must have the green lush
    lawn so many folks desire, limit the area and use low impact fertilizers 
    and home concoctions.  
    
    Brian 

.13

This makes perfect sense.  Why spend half your weekend
forcing unnatural grass to grow?  

As far as gardens go, I'm trying out Ruth Stout's no-work
method.  A deep mulch of hay and last year's leaves are 
layered over the entire garden area.  This helps retain
moisture and prevents weed growth.  As the mulch rots it
fertilizes the soil.  It seems to be working great.

>You forgot Poison Ivy!  This is a plant that is UN-F***ING KILLABLE !

Try Round-Up.  I've had absolutely fabulous results.  Dries the stuff
up in a few days.

    
    re: .15
    
    What time of the year is this done?
    

    
    Ah yes, lawns...a topic near and dear to my heart.
    
    I love to mow and the place I have requires about 5-6 hours to
    mow it all. About 1.5 acres all told separated into different sections.
    Never fertilize or use chemicals. I do have a rider but prefer to
    do most with a hand mower. It's great exercise.
    
    Re: poison ivy....indeed. We're surrounded and it's a constant battle.
    Kids and wife get it a lot but it seems I can roll in it and it
    just doesn't bother me. 
    
    The other enemy we are surrounded with is bittersweet. These vines
    grow at an incredible rate and strangle trees. After battling
    this for the last few years, all we have managed is a stalemate.

    
    
    Hank, be careful about the fact that you don't get it.  This can change
    (if the guy in this story was telling the truth).  When I worked on a
    golf course, there was this other guy who worked there, Jack (no, not
    Martin or Delbalso).  He said that he didn't get poison ivy.  He even
    took the leaves and rubbed it all over his arms and face to prove the
    fact.  He was out for a week with a terrible case of PI.  
    
    When everyone is a sleepin, poison ivy goes a creepin all
    arou..ou..ou..ound.
    
    

    
    Ahhhhhhhh, we must have been mad I tell you when we extended our
    back lot out!!! :>)  
    
    Watch out when you use Round-up, it will kill anything and everything
    it comes in contact with, but we use it on our wall to fight the PI and
    it seems to work great!
    
    Mary
    

Andy, I applied an 8-inch deep hay/leaf mulch last October.
By spring, the mulch was compressed to about 2 inches.

When planting, you push back the mulch and set the seed
or plant in the small cleared area.  After the plant is
established, you recover the cleared area with the mulch.
No weeds.  And whenever weeds do pop up, you simply bend
them over and cover them with more mulch.

    
    Funny story....
    
     I live in a large, old Victorian style building that was converted to
    apartments. We live in the back apartment, which was re-furbished by
    the land-lady when she lived there. She bought another home with her SO
    and we basically take care of the place (mowing, minor maintenance,
    snow shoveling..etc.) for a reduced rent.
    
      There are two condo complexes in either side of us (our place is on
    the corner), and it seems a landscaping/lawn maintenance firm was hired
    by these other two complexes to take care of all their lawn care needs.
    What has happened (I assume) is that the firm thinks we are part of the
    package and has been doing our place for the last three weeks!! It's
    done during the day while no one is home so we have no idea who to
    contact to have them stop (I even left out a large sign out back to
    have them call me.. no one has repsonded). I called the land-lady to
    make sure it wasn't her hiring these guys and shw knows nothing about
    it...
    
      It's really amazing! We come home from work on Friday afternoon, and
    the yard is done (quite large too!! About 3/4 acre)!!
    
     What to do... what to do!!
    
     :)
    

Yer gonna need an ocean
Of calomine lotion.

    
    re: .21
    
    Thanks much... will try it this Fall...
    
    BTW.... was it hay or straw that you used? I understand you are to use
    one and not the other as one goes to seed.... but for the life of me,
    I can't remember which one...
    

     If yer gonna feed something, use hay. If yer gonna grow something, use
    straw. (At least that's what the old timer said to me.)

Hay includes seed and is used for fodder. Straw is the shaft/stalk left after
grain (oats, wheat, etc.) has been harvested,is generally free of seed, and
is used for mulch and bedding.

    > New England,
    > rock gardens, evergreens and hardwoods can be used effectively.
    
    You forgot Poison Ivy!  This is a plant that is UN-FORKING KILLABLE !
    I've been trying to get rid of this one patch of it for nearly four
    years.  
    
    but all this aside, if you want truely low maintainance,
    PAVE OVER THE WHOLE FLIPPING PATCH OF LAND, AND PAINT IT GREEN ! !
    
    Just a suggestion ! ! !   :-)
    
    :-)
    Dan

Ruth says use either hay or straw.  It doesn't matter
cuz the 8-inch depth of the mulch will prevent any 
"to seed" problems.

    
    I'd stay away from using hay, it will go to seed.  
    
    Mary
    

    Believe it or not, I've been using Round-Up.  I can bash the PI down to
    one small patch, but the FORKING (thanks mark) thing will not die!  I
    tried digging it up last year, and dug down about 18-20" and low an
    behold there was a ROOT like you would not believe ! had to be 2 1/2 "
    in diameter at least.  It went even further underground.  I hacked off
    the root about 10" underground, and guess what I was last weekend....
    you got it the DARN thing was back !
    
    :-[
    Dan

    guess what I was last weekend....
    
    Read:
    guess what I saw last weekend....
    
    Dan

	Mike, my sister did that once, too.

	She believed she was not allergic to PI, and took a leaf and
	rubbed it on her hand (wrote her initials!).

	She got it.

	

    
    re: Poison Ivy...
    
     I've used a strong solution of salt water poured directly on the root.
    Yes, it'll kill most everything around it, but will eventually leach
    out and away....
    

    
    
    Roundup needs to be applied to the leaves as this is how the chemical
    is absorbed into the plant.
    
    

    
    Thanks for the tips on poison ivy.
    Though I don't seem to get it, I still take precautions.
    I can't see tempting mother nature. (It is still mother nature isn't
    it?)
    
    						Hank

    
    I also heard that bleach or chloring solution will work if your not
    into dumping toxic chemicals into your yard.
    
    Every read those bottles?? 
    
    Mary
    

Um, bleach _is_ a toxic chemical.

    How come some botanist hasn't developed a grass that grows to 3" and
    stops, never has to be mowed and needs little to no watering or
    fertilizer. I be willing to spent thousand of $$$$$. I hate lawns!
    
    ...Tom

    re: .30
    
    You were a newt last week but you got better?  

A small nuclear explosion will knock those PI suckers
into next week.

Spray the Round-Up on the leaves..the stuff goes right
to the root system.  

Has anyone else had a squirrel problem this year?  I've
been overrun with squirrels and they're driving me nuts.

    Squirrels are easy to dispose of.  Try a 5mm Sheridan air rifle.  It's
    quite, and tremendously effective.  It also will not penetrate the roof
    of a house, an important feature in an urban setting.

    BTW I was using the Round-Up on the leaves, still didn't do the thing
    in!

    RE: Poison Ivy....
    
    My ex and I went camping up in Maine one summer in better days, to a
    lovely little campground on Orr's Island.  We were warned that there
    was a whole bunch of poison ivy in the area but neither of us new what
    it looked like.  Well we got up in the AM to enjoy the sunrise up on
    the bluff overlooking the sound.  There we were sitting in our lawn
    chairs sipping tea and coffee just enjoying the morning.  A couple of
    folks strolled by in greeting I gave them a friendly warning that ther
    was poison ivy in the area and they may want to be on the lookout. 
    They glanced at each other briefly and turned to us and in unison,
    informed us we were sitting in it.  I was more than a little embarrased
    since this was the same patch of "grass" we had used the previous
    evening for an al fresco encounter of the personal kind, with blanket. 
    No itching was a good sign but I would not want to push it by rolling
    in it, again.  
    
    Brian

>    BTW I was using the Round-Up on the leaves, still didn't do the thing
    in!

Must be the Mother of All PI plants.

>Try a 5mm Sheridan air rifle.

Hey, that's what I'm using!   But they keep coming and coming and coming.

    > But they keep coming and coming and coming.
    
    That must be one tough varmit !
    
    I've killed so many of the bahstad I've lost count.  But it does make
    an interesting way to pass the summer afternoons and evenings.
    
    Remember, go for a body shot, stop being such a wise guy and trying for
    the head !
    
    :-)
    Dan
    

I was thinking about trying to spray them with Round-Up.

    If you do that you will not be able to use the tails for fly fishing,
    and that would be a darn shame !
    
    :-)
    Dan

    
    
    Don't have a squirrel problem in my yard.  The dog took care of the
    varmit.
    

    
    Chipmunks are my problem. Stone walls are lovely, but a haven for those
    little critters.  I have two that zip up and down that wall all day
    long, and are chasing my birds!
    
    

Since Heather came home from school with her cat, the chipmunk/red-squirrel/
mouse/mole/vole population around the yard and decreased substantially.

Now, if the cat'd just quit biting ME . . . .

re: round-up
Here in the Seattle area, we have blackberry bushes from hell! Similar to the
way they grow in the Atlanta area, but they grow much bigger and faster. Like
kudzu. I've had a heck of a time getting rid of it in our yard. Tried cutting
it and digging out these huge root clumps, but you always leave a little and
it comes back.

Tried Round-up, but I've found it works best by letting the pest plant get 
really big, then soaking the sucker down. It really absorbs a large quantity
that way and kills it dead, dead, dead, roots, runners and all. Working on the
pests when they are small doesn't work as well, it keeps coming back. A similar
approach should work for PI, when I lived in ATL, it used to get huge if left
alone. Apply on a day when you are not expecting rain for a few days. A second
coating a week later seems to really do it in (can you tell my hatred for
blackberries knows no bounds?).

BTW, I used to be afraid of the stuff, till we had a dog who was having some
problems with a toxic sickness of some kind (turns out a neighbor was poisoning
coyotes). I asked the vet if it could be the Round-up, and he said it is a
plant hormone, and animals can practically drink it straight with no ill 
effects (a slight stretch at least, I'm sure).

Anyone else have problems with moles? Not the kind that leave little
tunnel-humps, but the kind that push up big mounds of dirt.

    
    
    The LD50 value of Roundup is fairly low compared to that of other over
    the counter pesticides.  When it forst came on the market it was a
    restricted pesticide and noone could figure out why.
    
    Mike

>Since Heather came home from school with her cat, the chipmunk/red-squirrel/
>mouse/mole/vole population around the yard and decreased substantially.

Heather chases varmints?

    RE: poison ivy problem...
    
    I had a patch of this crap in my back yard that was trying to take over
    an oak tree.  I tried a few things and like always, it came right back. 
    But I was at my local garden center one day and I noticed this stuff on
    the rack made by the Ortho people.  It was called Poison Ivy Killer. 
    What you do is got to the plants, cut the stalk and then spray this
    "killer" on the cut.  I did this 3 years ago and I checked the spot a
    few weeks ago and it still hasn't come back.  WARNING: WHEN YOU ARE
    DOING THIS MAKE SURE YOU ARE WEARING A CRUMMY LONG SLEAVED SHIRT AND
    LONG PANTS AND GLOVES!!!
    
    Also I have sprayed it with commercial weed killer, I work part time
    for a friend who has a landscape co.  And this spray will kill the
    leaves and dry out the stalks.  Takes about a month for the stalks to
    dry out.  Than I take an iron rake and hard rake the stalks, and this
    spot still has no PI growing.  
    
    But this PI stuff is super smart, it will travel underground for long
    distances and than appear.  Unless you get down and start yanking out
    the runner roots, it will eventually appear some place yet.  But this
    is the way I treat the lousy stuff and I no longer have a problem with
    it.
    
    RE: The dull rotary mower blade to the sharp reel mower theory.  
    	Make sure your blade is sharp, a dull rotary blade tends to tear
    	grass instead of cutting it and this in turn will tend to kill the
    	grass.  I sharpen my rotary blades about 4 or 5 times a year.  Not
    	razor sharp but just a nice clean edge on them.  I use a dremel
    	grinding stone and a file.
    
    Chris.....

    hey Glen, that's a great idea! Whaddya think Brian?

    Glen had a great idea?  I think that is wonderful.  What was it anyway?

    
    
    Something about a sabbatical from the Box????
    

    Flippin' yankees, beefin' about poison ivy.  I got that too, but you
    don't have...
    
    
    
    ** KUDZU **  
    
    Try killing this stuff.

    
    
    I also like the folks who want to add bamboo to their landscape and it
    takes over their whole yard.

    But Mike,
    
    Kudzu is at least edible, you can use parts of it as a soup thickener. 
    I certainly wouldn't want to try that with poison ivy.

    Kudzu can be used for cattle feed.  Buy a cow.

    
    
                          (__)
                          (oo)
                   /-------\/ 
                  / |     ||  
                 *  ||W---||  
                    ~~    ~~  

    

    	Cow manure (fresh fromn the cow) is too large and lumpy to be
    	an effective fertilizer.  Horse too.
    
    	LLama droppings are just button-sized.  Could be an effective
    	option!

    			    ()()
                            (oo)
                             \/
                            //
                   /-------'/ 
                  / |     ||  
                 *  ||w---||  
                    ||    ||
    		    ~~    ~~

    spreading Fernando Llama on your lawn just seems a bit weird to me...

    Alpaca my bags if they start doing that here.

    
    re: .61
    
    Joe,
    
    > Cow manure (fresh fromn the cow) is too large and lumpy to be
    >an effective fertilizer.  Horse too.
    
    That's why I have a 55 gallon drum to make a nice thick brew. Once
    every four days or so, I stir up the manure from the bottom and water
    each vegetable plant seperately...  They love it!!
    
    Andy
    

    
    uh-b-b-bleah!
    
    8^)

    re: .65
    
     And it doubles as an aftershave, eh, Andy? :-)

    
    <------
    Sick pup!!!
    

    No wonder you have to shave twice a day. :-)

re .69:

Agagagagagagagagagag!

    
    re: .69
    
    
    Sick pup!!!!!!!!
    

Hey, ever see a yard where someone went crazy with the "Roundup"? Last year
there was one yard on my commute that looked like someone cookie-cuttered out
a 1/4 acre of the nice green grass and put down some nice dead straw.

They must have thought it would kill ONLY the weeds...

Or maybe they got sick of mowing. Can't say I blame 'em.

    I killed off my whole front lawn last year with Roundup.  It had been
    invaded by puky-looking non-grass things.  Now it's part grass and part
    clover, which is not puky-looking, so I'll keep it.

    	Clover is a great lawn plant.  It is soft on the feet, doesn't
    	grow very tall (depending on type) and is often less allergenic
    	than grass for some hay fever sufferers.

    
    So...how 'bout those gas-powered leaf/grass blowers?  Are they the
    lazy man's blighted contribution to the aural landscape, or what?
    

<--------- They make the world's most irritating noise!

    They sound like someone chewing gumn loudly?  Another reason not to get
    one...

More annoying than whiners in the 'box?

    
    My only consolation is that the users of such devices might
    suffer permanent hearing damage.
    

	Box o' whine ?

	Box o' wine ?

	Boit de cabernet ?

Last year I bought a gas powered trimmer with a blade (as well as a line)
because I needed to trim saplings along my quarter-mile driveway. I
bought one of the Ryobi Trimmer-Plus (TM) models. This year, Home Depot
had a sale on a bunch of other attachments you can interchange on this
thing (cultivator, blower, vaccum) so I got them to go with it.

I'm now equipped to annoy anyone, anywhere, anytime, for any reason.

    
    I'll get you for this, El Delbalso, I'll get you!!
    
    <shakes fist>
    

    
    
    
    Been thinking about one of them, JACK.  I Like the blower attachment (I
    know ooh-er and all), make cleanup in and outside a snap. :')
    
    

    
    <glower>
    

         <<< Note 466.82 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

> Last year I bought a gas powered trimmer with a blade (as well as a line)
> because I needed to trim saplings along my quarter-mile driveway. I
> bought one of the Ryobi Trimmer-Plus (TM) models. This year, Home Depot
> had a sale on a bunch of other attachments you can interchange on this
> thing (cultivator, blower, vaccum) so I got them to go with it.
    
    Treeeemmer..... We ain't got no treeeemmer...... 
    WE DON' NEEEED NOO STINKIN' TREEEEEMMMMERRR ! ! ! !
    <grrrr>
    
    :-)
    Dan

    
    How are the attachments for the Ryobi?? Been looking at the
    cultivator attachment to do some light garden stuff. 
    
    We bought one last year also, does wonders in the yard, but boy, that 
    thing could be dangerous!!!  That trimmer line comes out, and if your 
    feet are in the wrong place, will give you a good slapping!  
    
    Mary
                                         

Um, you're supposed to wear shoes when you use a string trimmer.

    
    Hey, I don't do the yard work!!   That's a man thing.  :>)
    
    My husband looks like he is going out for combat, between the gloves,
    the goggles, the work boots, and the ear plugs he has in.
    
    Mary
    
    

    
    
    I understand the double wind on the Ryobi is a bit of a pain.  

>    the double wind on the Ryobi

Que est que c'est? (sp?)

Mary,
    To be perfectly honest, I have yet to use any of the attachments. Hopefully
this weekend will change that, after which I will report back.

    Qu'est-ce que c'est?
    
    NNTTM.

    
    
    As I understand it, the Ryobi has two strings which come out of the
    head instead of just one.  My neighbor told me that the setup is a bit
    of a pain in the tail.
    
    Mike

    Don't use it on your tail.

    Thanks, dear abby.

	Hey, Mary, *I* married that guy!

	

    
    Any reports on the Ryobi attachments??
    
    Mary
    

The Ryobi Attachments is a Robert Ludlam novel.

    Ludlum, NNTTM etc...

Um - sorry, Mary. Instead of trying out the Ryobi atachments as
planned, I chose to veg out a lot this weekend. Maybe next week.

    Whatever happened to the good old days of vacuum cleaners with
    a bazillion attachments? When I was growing up, my mother had
    a "Kirby" vacuum cleaner and it had a carpet washing attachment
    and even a paint sprayer! Not that she ever used any of the
    more esoteric ones, but it sure was neat owning a device that
    could simultaneously ruin the carpet _and_ clean it!!

    -b

Hey, anyone got any creative "kill the moles" stories?

Not that it matters that much that the little creepers have infected the back
yard - it's a rented house... but if it involves little work and much beer, I
might be persuaded...

We dump our used cat-litter in their holes.  Haven't seen any evidence of
moles in over two years.  Before that our back lawn was routinely plowed
by the little buggers.

My mother-in-law found (and bought) some thumpers (No! not the "box" kind - The
Dune kind) and keeps 'em running night and day.  Must drive the moles away.
Works on me too.  [:-)

/mtp

    
    Regarding moles.....

    A friend had ground hogs.  We found the best way was to run a hose
    down the hole and flood the little buggers out.  When they stick their
    heads out, blast the little bastages..... a .22 will do just fine, but
    try to make it a nice one shot kill, other wise they try to backtrack
    REAL QUICK, and you second or third shot may cost you a hose....

    HTH
    :-)
    Dan

    my cat is effective... we find his gifts on the deck now and then :-)

    
    <-----
    Now THAT is ONE TOUGH CAT!

    Most of the ground hogs I've seen would out weigh the typical cat by a
    good 20%.....

    :-)
    Dan

    
    Clear the earth from a fresh mound & fire a shotgun into the
    hole.  The concussion travels along the tunnels for many yards
    and kills the little buggers.

    I guess the PC people aren't here yet this AM...
    
    Telling us how the moles were there first, and we imperialist lawn-care
    people are threatening (eliminating, really) their long-standing mole
    heritage and culture and how they have every right to live under the
    ground...after all, don't we live on top of it?
    
    (P.S. An empty CO2 cartridge half-filled with FFFF gives a nice
    concussion, too.)

    
    Don't get me wrong, I like moles and would normally defend their right
    to liberty, happiness and the pursuit of worms.  However, I come from a
    farming community and moles are a nuisance. 

    You could always fire tear gas into the hole and then send a team of
    crack troops in after them. This technique has been proven highly
    effective by the French military. Of course, this should always take
    place in someone elses backyard.
    
    Stuart

    <------ a good chuckle from that one

Hmm... the empty CO2 cartridge idea has merit, but I guess I'll try the cat
litter plan. Fills in the holes at the same time...

The neighbors are only about 30' away, so anything fun (loud) is out.

    you bet Dan. we have to feed that sucker with a whip and a chair!
    
    moles, Dan, moles...

Warning: Non-PC alert:

I've been trying the gasoline treatment, with some mixed success. 

Uncover a series of holes, pour some gasoline in, especially in the uphill
ones. Wait a couple of minutes and let the vapors penetrate and light it off.
If things are right, you get a nice
FFFFFFSSSSSHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
through the holes, and they all light up. Let 'em burn a minute, then put it
out and cover them up.

Not sure if the concussion kills them, or the vapors/combustion gases. If you
can treat a complete series of holes, they stay gone for a while. If you can't
get to the whole system, they come back right away. Also, the petrochemicals
in the ground can't be good, it would be nice to find something more effective.
Thinking about trying oxy/acetylene (more bang, less pollution). The cat litter
sounds good, but we have no cats (5 dogs, and one of them LOVES cats - one with
each meal). Tried asking about the thumpers, but no one around here has heard 
of them. Traps haven't worked.

...and probably won't for you either.  But this whole issue begs a larger
question:  I wonder what would have happened if we had dropped cat poop on the
VC/NVA instead of jellied gas?

/mtp

    	I heard somewhere that they'll ingest chewing gum dropped into
    	their holes, and the gum will kill them.

    
    Yes, but 4 out of 5 grounds keepers prefer sugarless gum.
    
    -b

 That's 4 out 5 groundskeepers who chew gum..

>    moles, Dan, moles...

As Gerald suggests -
 
 Mexican restaurants, Chip, Mexican restaurants...

    
    These are all insightful notes, but when ya get right down to it, 
    it just ain't as much fun as blasting the little bastages.... :-)

    Dan

Yeabut, hell, /john, my nearest neighbor is a quarter mile away so
who'm I gonna bother?

:^)

    <---- See what I mean? How lucky can a man get?

    Mais NON -- he WANTS to bother someone wiv his weedwacker, but 
    
    SHOCK HORROR!!
    
    by a stroke of ROTTEN LUCK there is NO ONE near enough.
    
    Thus endeth the legend of Lucky Jack.
    

It's my understanding that it can't be put to death that easily, Dan'l.

    Your all lucky, around here we have a building boom, everyone is
    renovating, now on a Sunday morning, you do not wake up to the sound of
    birds and lawnmowers, just hammers and saws.
    
    Even the Crows can't drown out the noise.
    
    
    joan

    
    You folks get no sympathy from me.  Since I work all night, I sleep
    during the day.  Try to sleep, I should say.  I think one of my
    neighbors goes up on his roof with a hammer just to drive me nuts.
    
    BANGBANGBANG!!!
    
    "Groannn, what was that?"  I listen, everything is quiet.  Five minutes
    go by.  I start to fall asleep again.
    
    BANGBANGBANG!!!
    
    "Aaaaarrrggghh, not again..."  Ten more minutes go by.
    
    BANGBANGBANG!!!
    
    And people wonder why I have bags under my eyes.