Conference back40::soapbox

>      (1) For what is a chunnel, and is it safe ?
 
a hugely expensive waste of space, and the fears of a garlic outbreak
in this country cannot be underestimated.
   
>      (2) Have you stopped shooting your Irish, and if so, why ?
 
ooh, bit controvertial that one.  Well since 10th generation Americans
call themselves Irish, I guess I can too if the whim takes me, so I'd
better stop beating myself...
   
>      (3) Are there nouns which are never 'bloody' ?
    
no there bloody isn't!  So bloody knob off you bloody Septic!

Chris.

    >      (1) For what is a chunnel, and is it safe ?
    
    just in case that was a serious question ... it's a tunnel under the
    Straits of Dover linking Kent to France. only trains can use it, not
    cars, though you can put your car in a train if you want to.
    
    hope rabies doesn't get across
    
    ric

    You mean people can't use the chunnel?

    People can use it. I think what was meant was that you can't just drive
    through it yourself with your car - you have to get on a train.

    .4
    
    correct - apologies for the rambling less-than-clear exp lanation  8^(
    i should write religious texts! 8^)
    
    ric

    
    Why do the English insist on pronoucing "Beauchamp Street"
    in London as "Beechem Street"? Is it to piss off the french?
    
    Why do you call underwear "pants" and "vests"? Is it to
    make American tourists, like me, look foolish when we
    call the hotel lobby to ask if we can have them pressed?
    (I actually did this at a very exclusive London Hotel).
    
    Why do your cabbies and servile types address men as
    "guv'ner"?
    
    Why don't any of your hotels provide a proper pillow?
    I always get flat blown-out things.
    

    .7
    
    We must remember, my dear Mr Markey, that the British invented the
    language we call our native tongue.  As its inventors, they ought to
    have the right to bugger it up any way they please.
    
    As for pillows, you should know better than to stay in fleabags.  The
    London hotels I frequent have an excellent class of pillows.  Their
    beds, on the other hand, behave more like hammocks...

    And I heard that there will be cameras watching for clausterphobics on
    the brink of an attack. Once identified, these people will be able to
    rest in a rest area (with sofa, etc..) located in various parts of the
    train. I think there will be a nurse on every run.
    

    >Why do you call underwear "pants" and "vests"? Is it to
    
    why don't you use the word "trousers"? what do you call pants and
    vests then? (not that i wear vests - they're for woosies
    
    gosh this is fun, we could go on and on ....
    
    ric

    What do you call a trucker in the U.K. ?

A lorry driver or a complete bastard, depending on whether I'm
chatting to one in a roadside caff or cursing one who's trying
to ram my car into the central reservation...

Chris.

    
    
    
    What's the 'central reservation'?????
    

    .12
    
    Can I have the American english translation of that reply please?

    The central reservation is the median strip.

    
    The one that always threw me was "articulated lorry" (what we
    Yanks would call a "trailer truck").
    

There are "No Parking on Reservation" signs along Commonwealth Avenue
in Newton MA.

    Yous means a sem-eye now, dontcha?

    British = Soccer teams from Scotland, Wales ,Northern Ireland
    	      & England

    why is that British politicians get into to more sex scandals that
    our own? (strange but true)
    
    why is it that British politicians like to dress in women's finery?
    
    Chip

    .20
    
    > more sex scandals
    
    Better nooz.

    >median strip
    
    learn something new every day!
    
    >why is that British politicians get into to more sex scandals that
    >our own? (strange but true)
    
    they aren't as good at bribing the Press to keep quiet?
    
    >why is it that British politicians like to dress in women's finery?
    
    apocryphal stereotype, i feel
    
    so what do you lot call the separate items of underwear if you can't
    call them pants and vests?
    
    ric

    
    T-shirt has become the generic term for all of the upper
    torso underwear, whereas panties are the generic term for
    female "pants" and "shorts" is pretty much the generic term
    for men's "pants".
    
    -b

    
    
    t-shirts
    underpants
    bras
    panties
    shorts
    
    
    Hope this helps
    

    .23,.24
    
    thanks, not that different then
    
    ric

"Shorts!"  Nah, it's not the same...

Chris.

Does "toss" have some sort of scatological meaning?
Or is it sexual?

    Is "knackered"(sp) a real word?
    
    I think it's about time for a pint break, eh?
    
    Dan (who stayed up too late watching Letterman last night)
     

    
    
    
    And here, I thought all this time, that toss meant to blow chunks....
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Learn something new every day! :*)
    
    
    Terrie
    

    >"knackered"
    
    yes - meaning even more tired than tired
    
    >I think it's about time for a pint break, eh?
    
    eh?
    
    >Letterman
    
    no - i'm only vaguely aware of him through seeing references to him in
    here
    
    ric

>    Is "knackered"(sp) a real word?
 
it's not in my dictionary, rather oddly, but I do use the word a lot.
Interchangable with `shagged', it means broken or tired.
   
>    I think it's about time for a pint break, eh?
    
It certainly is!  Fortunately it's not far to the `fridge, which is
well stocked with beer...

Chris.

    
    Ah good. So you Brits have finally caught on to the notion
    of chilling beer. Splendid.
    
    -b

>
>    Is "knackered"(sp) a real word?
> 
>>it's not in my dictionary, rather oddly, but I do use the word a lot.

	It's in _Chambers_.

    "blow chunks" ???
    
    >chilling beer
    
    only the lager variety, what you call beer and what "Lager Lout"
    drinks
    
    real beer is best drunk warm
    
    ric

    
    
    Blow chunks, hurl, spew, toss one's cookies, vomit....
    
    
    
    Need I say more?  :*)
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

>    real beer is best drunk warm
    
argh!  Heathen!  Ales should be served at cellar temperature, not
warm.  I only drink lager 'coz it's cheap, and I stick it in the
freezer in an attempt to remove the taste...

Chris.

    
    Didn't someone once enter a complete list of vomiting terms
    in this conference?
    

>toss == wank...

Oh, a toss is a wank.  What's a wank?

    
    
    re: .38
    
    
    
    yup....
    

    
    
    
    RE: .39
    
    
    
    I'll leave that for someone else to answer.....
    
    
    
    :*)
    

>Oh, a toss is a wank.  What's a wank?

apart from a village in Germany, it's a term for exercising the trouser
snake, executive relief or a million other offhand terms.  Masturbation,
in other words...

Chris.

    
    
    RE: .42
    
    
    Well said.....
    
    
    (faint)
    

    .34
    
    Does your Chambers indicate, or suggest, that knackered derives from
    being so worn out as to be ready for the knacker?

    .42
    
    the term is not gender-specific
    
    ric

Oh.  For some reason I thought that a toss was different
from a wank.  

    
>>    Does your Chambers indicate, or suggest, that knackered derives from
>>    being so worn out as to be ready for the knacker?

	well, ready for the knacker to put you in his knackery.

    
    
    
    What's a knacker??
    

One who knacks.

    
    
    Why are you poms always sucking on fags over there?
    
    also,
    
    Why do young lads over in limeyville play vile games with biscuits
    whilst having a tommy?

>    Why are you poms always sucking on fags over there?
 
that's only the southern puffs.  Dead ard northerners call them `tabs'.

>    Why do young lads over in limeyville play vile games with biscuits
>    whilst having a tommy?

I only heard about this charming `game' myself, recently.  Urgh.

Chris.

   a knacker buys and destroys old horses, houses, ships, etc.
   can also be an old horse itself.

    why is that just about every Brit thinks they could've handled
    Japan and Germany in the 40's without our help?
    
    Chip

    On the other hand, one who knacks is a clever person.  Now don't go
    giving us a deprecating moue, Gerald.

>aural
    descriptions

I'd say more like tactile ;-)

    
>    Why do young lads over in limeyville play vile games with biscuits
>    whilst having a tommy?
    
    i've always thought it would be much more appropriate and useful
    instruction if the bloke who finishes first has to eat the biscuit
    
    ric

>>    On the other hand, one who knacks is a clever person.  Now don't go
>>    giving us a deprecating moue, Gerald.

	well, none of my dictionaries lists "knack" as a verb.

>    why is that just about every Brit thinks they could've handled
>    Japan and Germany in the 40's without our help?
    
'coz we're dead 'ard, us lot.  A-bombs and machine guns are for
wimps, just give us some broken bottles and motorbike chains!  :)

Chris.

    Di, you ought to know that it's all right to verb any noun...

  .61   cow doots.

    Is "doot" a transitive or intransitive verb?

>   why is that just about every Brit thinks they could've handled
>   Japan and Germany in the 40's without our help?
    
coz they proved they can do it again

with the falklands.....




andreas.

    .64
    
    I've news for you.  In the Falklands, the Brits handled the Argies, who
    were about as serious a threat as Reading FC would be against the SAS. 
    The closest thing to serious war machinery the Argies had was the
    Exocet.

        Ummm; where to start?
        
        WWII it  seems  proved  one thing at least - America is hard of
        hearing.  It  was decided that "we" (I was born in '47!) needed
        help from our allies and called for help in 1939...
        
        There's    no    doubt  that  Britain  needed  America's  help.
        (Alongside  the    sterling  efforts  of  the  peerless  Polish
        Squadron, the Canadians,  Australians,  New  Zealanders (Dennis
        Conner truely sucks -  go  NZ!),  South  Africans,  the  Ghurka
        Brigade et al)
        
        "Knackers" is and always  was slang for testicles - the knacker
        was a travelling expert in  the art of animal castration, later
        taking care of redundant animals, commonly horses and cows, and
        the disposal of the carcases;  often  "processed" into leather,
        pet  food, glue, etc.  "Knackered" therefore -  ready  for  the
        Knacker's Yard; tired/worn out/finished.
        
        The English love to appear "Cockney" (Cokeney - bird's egg) and
        aspire  to rhyming slang, a similar  concept  to  the  American
        backslang,  designed  to  confuse  listeners who might  be  the
        police  or  informants.   You'll hear fake rhyming  slang  used
        throughout England;  Tommy tank = wank being one  of  the later
        ones.
        
        An aside from the  immortal Billy C - imagine listening to someone
        masturbating - the bedsprings  don't  go  "masturbatemasturbate"
        they go "wankwankwank". He has a point.
        
        Wonder  if  the  "Married, with Children" writers were aware of
        the meaning - Peggy Wanker, from Wanker County?
        
        Oh well... :*)
        
        
        
        

>        The English love to appear "Cockney" (Cokeney - bird's egg) and

I don't!

Chris$Geordie.

    Gosh, I wonder if:

    1. Andy's note will be deleted for reproducing wank sounds.

    2. The person deleting the note will send him a courtesy
       notification.

    Apparently, my miscreant ways are considered beyond such
    courtesy.

    -b

        Brian,
        
        1. I hope not
        
        2. redundant
        
        Geordies are  specifically  excluded  in my previous comment re
        the English and rhyming slang.
        
        Andy (who did  two  years in the company of 4th Field Regiment
        Royal Artillery, Geordies all. Best two of ten in the mob)
        

    
    What's a Geordie ?
    
    Why do Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and England prefer to set
    up seperate footie teams, just to ensure they won't qualify for the
    European (unless being host) championships/
    
    Why are the Windsors calles Windsors, when in fact they're 
    the Hannovers ?
    
    Why do you drive on the wrong side ?
    
    Why are no Brit birds (american:babes) noting here ?
    
    Are Brit males in general afraid of women ?
    
    Will Seaman get lynched ?
    

    Ahh yes... in 1939 we could've sent some of the those wooden broom
    stick machine guns and the deuce-and-halfs with "tank" painted on
    them to help out. At least that's what our boys (tiny standing
    armed forces at the time) were using.
    
    Chip                                                  

    
    i thought the royals' surname was battenberg until during the
    1914-1918 unpleasantness when germanic names were out of vogue.
    

    battenberg, hannover, beethoven, sounds all the same to me.
    
    Maybe it was the House of the Battenbergs that reigned in Hannover.
    
    

    
    >     <<< Note 428.74 by HBFDT1::SCHARNBERG "Senior Kodierwurst" >>>
    
    >battenberg,
    
    The Royal family are all fruitcakes. It would be insulting to a sponge
    and marzipan cake to be associated with the Royal family.
    
    POL.

    Why,when speaking to Muricans,do I have to slow down my speach to 
    about a third the normal speed,pronouce every sylable as in "house"
    instead of "ows" and not slur my words as in "how is it going?"
    instead of "ahsit goin`?"
    
    You should learn to speak English proper,like.
    
    
    

    
    Errm, Stu, there's only one syllable in "house". 

    I don`t slag Muricans off. I like them. Better than yer average Frog
    or Wop,that`s fer sure.
    

    
    The royal family's official name is Windsor-Mountbatten.
    
    The Duke of Edinburgh is the Battenberg part of the equation.  The
    family name was changed to Mountbatten to avoid anti-German sentiment
    during one of the wars, I don't remember which.
    
    The Queen is the Windsor part of the equation.  She's the one who
    really matters.

    
    but she signs it "Elizabeth II". 
    
    II probably means something in Hawaiian.

re wrong side of the road,

this came up a while back in another conference, and apparently some
really interesting person worked out that there are more RHD vehicles
in the world than LHD.  So there.

re what's a Geordie,

someone born in or around Newcastle, in NE England.  Geordie blokes
are dead ard, and Geordie lasses are dead nice.  I suppose anyone who
drinks Newcy Brown is an honourary Geordie.

Chris.

    .83
    
    Do honorary Geordies have to learn how to say "Get ya baps oot"?

    
    Elsewhere I read a note that the UK had decided to switch to right lane
    driving. 
    In an attempt to make the switch more acceptable, a stepwise approach
    has been agreed upon.
    
    	Right lane driving will be implemented for busses and lorries
        starting Jan 1st 1996, July 1st for all other vehicles.
    
    :-)
    Heiko

Did Bill Shakespeare really write all those plays?
I mean, how could one person write all those plays?
Did Chris Marlowe help him out?  Or that Earl guy?

    .86
    
    He might have, but he stole plots from all over the place, like the
    piss-Claudio-off-with-a-fake-Hero-on-the-balcony bit came from
    Ariosto's "Orlando Furioso."  Bill knew a good schtick when he saw one.

>Ariosto's "Orlando Furioso."

I've never even heard of Ariosto...Italian?
Playwright?

    Ludovico Ariosto, 1474-1533, Italian poet.  His magnum opus was the
    epic "Orlando Furioso," based on the Carolingian legends.

Cool.  A Renaissance guy.
Ah, for the good old days.

Thanks for the info.

    I have my suspicions that the high brow literary crowd don`t like the
    thought that a humble peasant like Shakespeare could write such stuff.
    
    Just my biased opinion,admitedly. 
    
    
     

    Sweden, Japan, Australia, the Bahamas, etc, all drive on the wrong side
    of the road as well. 
    
    Wank:  see Jocelyn Elders, Paul Reubens (aka PeeWee Herman).
    
    

    The Swedes do drive on the right side, or did it change since last
    August ?

    The Swedes used to drive on the left, but they changed to the right
    side about 35 years ago.  One Sunday, NOBODY drove ANYWHERE in Sweden
    except the guys in the maintenance trucks who were busy moving and
    changing signs and repainting lane markers.

Joycelyn.  NNTTM.

    OBTW, there is actually a historical reason why the Brits drive on the
    left side.
    
    Back a couple of hundred years ago, when gentlemen carried swords and
    could be called on at a moment's notice to use same, men walked on the
    right side of their female companions, the better to keep the sword arm
    unencumbered.  When gentlemen began driving their own carriages and
    wagons in the less-civilized areas of the White European Empire, it was
    natural to keep the sword - later gun - hand free, so they drove from
    the right side of the seat.
    
    When the first autos were built, they were simply carriages with
    engines instead of horses, and they were built with the controls on the
    right side - in the United States as well as in Europe.  Roads then
    were only a single lane wide, so it made no difference which side of
    the vehicle the controls were on.  Later, when roadbuilders started
    building wider roads, some nations gravitated toward driving on the
    right (the etiquette-dictated "polite" side) and others didn't.  Those
    that did, soon began building their autos with the controls on the left
    to give the driver a better view of the road ahead.
    
    There now.  Don't you all feel better educated?

>humble peasant like Shakespeare...

Wasn't Will from, well, what would be described
now as the middle class?  

    >> There now.  Don't you all feel better educated?
    
    Some people feel better when they're uneducated...
    
    Chris

I liked this one. Yes I did.
     
> From the home office in Liverpool, England ...
 
TOP TEN REJECTED PUB NAMES
 
[Presented by actual London pub workers]
 
10. The Bloated Ebert

 9. The Duke of Pants
 
 8. The Jolly Giuliani
 
 7. The Lactose-Intolerant Monkey
 
 6. The Drunken Kennedy
 
 5. The Guilded Pataki
 
 4. The Bearded Ito
 
 3. The Boutros Boutros-Drunkie
 
 2. The Gap-Toothed Talk Show Weasel
 
 1. T.G.I. Fergies
 
 
Compiled by Sue Trowbridge
 
          ----------------------------------------
               LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN
               11:35 p.m. ET/PT (10:35 CT/MT)
               on the CBS Television Network
          ----------------------------------------
 
             On Thursday's show, Dave welcomes
 
             ...actress JAMIE LEE CURTIS
             ...singer ANNIE LENNOX
             ...cooking fish and chips, JOHN BEDDER
 
The Top Ten List is Copyright (C) 1995 Worldwide Pants, Incorporated.
Used with permission.

    UK dumb yank snarf!

    The Royal Family are great, I love 'em. As a Patriot of my homeland
    they make me proud to say I'm British. I'll have words with anyone who
    thinks otherwise ! Prince Charlie is great, a bit of a plonker for what
    he did to dear old Di, but never-the-less, still a most outstanding
    individual. If it wasn't for Margret Thatcher, the Queen Mum would be
    my first choice as an ideal bride. Good 'ol Prince ANdy did the right
    thing and kicked out that tart Fergie. As for Prince Eddy, he's got
    himself a right bit-o-stuff, just goes to show he isn't a puff, like
    all the critics said. Then there's Queen Liz herself, a great
    individual, loved all over the world and probably my biggest hero.
    

This preoccupation with puffs I find interesting.

    
    Speaking of which, to what do you attribute the current level of
    UK support for John Major ?
    
      bb

>    Speaking of which, to what do you attribute the current level of
>    UK support for John Major ?
    
that's a lot less than you may expect.  In the recent local elections,
only about 35% of the electorate turned out, and the Conservatives
recived, well, let's say a minority vote.

Chris.

    John who?
    
    Forget the local elections. Cometh the hour of a general election,the
    great British public will panic at the thought of high taxation and
    vote for the Conservatives as per usual. 
     
    

    To allow for different supply current/voltage hookups. A 20 amp service
    has a different plug than a 15 amp service, etc. This allows you to
    hook it up directly without having to resort to some bogus splice job
    or call an electrician.

    Actually,under an EEC law, all electrical appliances now have to be sold
    with plugs.
    

    Not really a Brit question, but what happened to the two prisoners
    in Germany who kidnapped a guard and fled in a car, followed by the
    German police?  Did the pursuit end?
    
    Dan 

    Latest news (this morning 07:00 local time)
    
    they found the Porsche in a small town south of Hannover. 
    The gangsters are missing.
    
    The kidnappers must be awake for almost 60 hours now.
    

    "Good `ol Blighty" is Britain itself,rather than it`s inhabitants. Or
    a form of meat product.
    
    Dunno how it came about. Though I would guess it`s origins are in World
    War 2.
    

    It's been around a lot longer than that Stu. Before WW1 even.

  So does puff pastry mean the same thing on the other side of the pond?

aka - Clyde

    Yep.

    
    Was actor Gary Oldman a well known film and stage performer in Britan
    and Europe before he started doing U.S. produced films ?
    
    
    
    

    I remember Gary Oldman in the film "Prick Up Your Ears" circa about
    1986,which was a film about the writer Joe Orton. 
    
    

    A few years ago I worked with a woman that was from Manchester. 
    Typical story.  Married an American G.I. and came back to the 
    States with him, naturally.  Well, one day this charming little
    lady walks up to me and very casually asks me if I would "Knock
    her up."  Blimy, I almost swallowed me teeth, I did.  It seems 
    that to her knocking up meant one thing but over here it means
    child support for at least 18 years.  Oh well!
    
    
    		Art
    

    
    
    So, what on *earth* is the other meaning?????
    
    
    
    This, I've *got* to hear.....
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
    Were Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols all typical Brits ?
    
      bb

    I don`t undestand that "knock me up". If a girl said that to me
    (unlikely,i`ll admit),i`d assume she`d want me to get her in the club.
    Bun in the oven. Up the junction. etc. I`d run a mile.
    
    
    Were the Sex Pistols all typical Brits? I don`t think so. They might
    be typical of punks from that time (from the scandalous tales an
    old friend of mine tells me),but I don`t think your average Brit
    gobs on people and drinks litres of cider then pukes up. Er,then again..
    
    
    
    
    

    
    Jeesh, a Yankme has to answer a question about the Brits...
    
    To "knock someone up" in Manchester parlance is similar to
    "ring them up", in other words, stop by their house and
    knock on the door... or as more commonly interpreted in
    this telecom age, call them on the phone.
    
    -b

    .122    Yup, you've got it right.  She wanted me to call her house
            the next morning and make sure she was out of bed.  I don't
            remember now why she wanted me to do this.  Gee, you don't
            suppose she REALLY meant.......................NAH!! 

I'd say that the Sex Pistols were just four pretty ordinary
guys.  Out here in the British suburbs, the usual passtimes
are gobbing on people, going down the pub, puking up, having
a fight and swearing a lot.  Bottom.

Chris.

    The bottom part troubles me.

    Sid Vicious was great ! Well, only in the video called Sid and Nancy.
    It was quite funny I must say.

    .124   I agree.
    		The Pistols were ordinary blokes and we would have all done
    	the same if we'd been able to get away with it.
    
    	I'm sure there's a good few in this note who know what Evostik
        smells like and a few more who have been up the golf course without
    	any clubs to see if there's any mushy's growing.

    Shudup idjit.

Why do the British coppers get all upset if you drive on the pavement?

    open up it's the piiigs.

hey maaaan, come on in and take that tit off your head...

date=6/29/95
type=background report
number=5-30471
title=britain politics
byline=andre de nesnera
dateline=london
content=
voiced at:  

intro:  the nominations are in and there are only two candidates  
for the leadership of britain's conservative party --  prime  
minister john major and a former member of his cabinet john  
redwood.  in this background report from london, voa  
correspondent andre de nesnera looks at what lies ahead in what  
ultimately is a contest for the post of prime minister.  

text:  british tabloids proclaim the leadership contest as "the  
battle of the johns" -- prime minister john major against his  
right-wing rival and former cabinet secretary john redwood.  

mr. major forced the election when he resigned last week as  
conservative party leader.  he urged his right-wing opponents to  
"put up or shut-up" and mr. redwood picked up the gauntlet.  the  
329 conservative party members of parliament will vote next  
tuesday in a secret ballot to determine their new leader.

in an interview with british radio, the prime minister was  not   
overconfident but he expressed optimism he would win.  

                       // major act //    

         i do  not  know what the outcome will be for certain.   
         but i am absolutely convinced, on the basis of the  
         evidence coming to me thus far, that i will win this  
         election comfortably.

                         // end act //  

many observers see the election as a contest between the moderate
and centrist wing represented by mr. major and those favoring a  
return to the right-wing policies of former prime minister  
margaret thatcher as championed by john redwood.  

conservative party lawmaker james cran says the election is too  
close to call.

                         // cran act //  

         as to the outcome of the election between mr. redwood  
         and the prime minister, i am  not  sure i would put much
         money on anything at the minute because opinion here at  
         westminster is very fluid indeed.  all i can say to you  
         is i hope the prime minister wins.

                         // end act //  

mr. cran says between now and election day tuesday, the prime  
minister must be seen talking to members of parliament and   
explaining to them how the conservative party will win the next  
general election.  at the latest, it must be called in may 1997  
and recent public opinion surveys show the main opposition labour
party holding a commanding lead over the conservatives.

jeffrey archer is a conservative party member of the house of  
lords.  he believes mr. major will win convincingly and is the  
only man capable of uniting the conservative party.  

                        // archer act //  

         i think john major has the ability to pull together the  
         left and the right.  when margaret thatcher left the  
         position of prime minister, which i greatly regretted,  
         and john took over under what would be described as  not
         easy circumstances, he did pull the party together when  
         they said it was impossible.  he did go into the next  
         election and win it when they said it was impossible and
         more important perhaps he got the highest number of  
         votes for the conservative party since the war -- which  
         is a remarkable achievement.  

                         // end act //  

analysts here say it is unlikely mr. redwood will win the  
election outright.  but many experts say his candidacy may  
persuade enough members of parliament to abstain and thus force  
mr. major to withdraw his name from consideration for the second  
ballot.  analysts say the contest may then shift from being a  
battle of the "johns" to being one between the "mikes" --  
employment secretary michael portillo and the president of the  
board of trade michael heseltine.  (signed)

neb/aden/cf

29-jun-95 8:51 am edt (1251 utc)
nnnn

source: voice of america
.

    
    Maybe you Brits can shed some light on a snippet I caught on TV 
    yesterday?
    
    I understand that there are video cameras set up all over London,
    monitoring the city for traffic problems and criminal activity.
    
    I understand that the cameras have caught considerably more...uhh...
    "activity" than they were originally intended to.
    
    I understand that the company which runs the cameras is going to be
    selling a video of some of the more "interesting" activities caught
    by these cameras, including (but not limited to) sex acts performed
    in private homes that were visible to the cameras through uncovered
    windows.
    
    Have any of you Brits heard about this?
     

    Hell, many of the brits in soapbox are prolly the same folks in
    that there movie.
    
    specially Stu... 

.133,

dunno about that, the closest thing I can think of is the `Police Stop!'
stuff which contains footage from motorway surveilance cameras (these
are really only intended to monitor traffic flow and give the slops an
early warning of any incidents), although they pick up some top comedy
driving techniques...

Chris.

    
      So.  What WILL the Lady Diana be saying in her upcoming TV interview,
     her first in 15 years, since marrying the Prince of Wales ?
    
      bb

 Who cares?

	Lady Di does, and she's a babe! Opps...wrong Lady Di....

And you'd best not call her Squidgy or whatever.

    Gerald,
    
    I thought Squidgy was another name for Fergie ;-}
    
    

Whatever.  My subscription to People expired.

I'm still contemplating watching Panorama tonight.  I'm not a `Royal watcher',
and as such I'm not really interested, but I might watch it anyway if there's
nowt else on telly.

Chris.

    To all the gentlemen in the 'box,
    
    If you had to choose between Lady Di and Camilla Parker-Bowles for
    a date, who would you choose?
    
    

    
    Well, we know Glen would choose Prince Charles.........
    
    

  .142  telly

	warning - language evolution in progress - proceed at your
	own risk

	Mike, I would NOT choose him. YUCK! 

    
    Hey, Glen, with his money I'D choose him! :-)
    
    -b

    
      Well, Chris, do you Brits side with Di&kids v. Horseface ?  Or do
     you think she shoulda stuck with him, escapades or no ?
    
      "Panorama" ?  Is that the name of the show she's on ?
    
      bb

With those ears, he's probably good at aural sex.

>	warning - language evolution in progress - proceed at your
>	own risk

I never said I don't use slang myself, but, then, I'm not responsible for
maintaining the language.  So stop hassling me!

Re date,

don't think I'd bother with either of them, although if I were Charlie,
with hindsight, I'd choose Di if it was a one night stand, otherwise
Camilla for something more permanent.

Chris.

>      Well, Chris, do you Brits side with Di&kids v. Horseface ?  Or do
>     you think she shoulda stuck with him, escapades or no ?
 
probably an even split between those who side with Di, those who side
with Charlie, and those who don't give a monkey's.
   
>      "Panorama" ?  Is that the name of the show she's on ?
    
that's the one.  I believe one of your channels will carry the programme
at some point in the near future, so you can all have a good yawn, too.

Chris.

    
    But isn't Camilla serious woof cookies? At least a two bagger,
    and all that? Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong person, but I
    don't recall her being a dream date...
    
    -b

Who is this Camilla Parker-Bowles? Is she Charlie's new squeeze?

    
    RE: .143
    
    WHO???
    

    
    Sorry Jack..
    

>>I never said I don't use slang myself, but, then, I'm not responsible for
>>maintaining the language.  So stop hassling me!

	oh yes, i keep forgetting there's a select group of people 
	responsible for "maintaining the language".  they're probably
	underpaid.  aaagagagag.

>Who is this Camilla Parker-Bowles? Is she Charlie's new squeeze?

not exactly new.  I think that they, er, knew each other quite a while
before Di was on the scene.

Chris.

>	oh yes, i keep forgetting there's a select group of people 
>	responsible for "maintaining the language".  they're probably
>	underpaid.  aaagagagag.

dictionary compilers, people who specify the curriculum, and the like,
I would expect.  Anyway, wrong topic.

Chris.

    He did say to her, on a cell phone, that he wanted to be one of her
    tampons.

    
    .159
    
    Wotta silver-tongued devil.
    

	Brian, I couldn't do that for all the money in England! :-)  While
money is nice to have, and it would indeed take me out of debt completely, I
couldn't even think of being with the man. He does nothing for me.



Glen

  people who compile dictionaries aren't maintaining the language.  they're
  documenting it.  as it evolves, of course.

    
    The English language is being maintained and modified by the Trilateral
    Commission after their attempts to impose Esperanto on the world failed.
    

    Esperanto?
    
    Is that some kind of drink?

    Er, yes I knew dat.

    .166
    
    Normally, I say there's no such thing as a dumb question, but for you
    I'm willing to revise my estimation.

Which 2 million people would that be and where might they congregate?

  i wonder if they'd call it congregating.

    Oh! Hare Binder! You'll do nicely as a Mr. Topan substitute!

The real question is do they conjugate?

If I'm going to be associated with the likes of esperanto, I'll back down
pretty bleedin quickly!  Although, when I see `words' like `regularized',
that *really* makes me cringe, and I wonder if there's much future for
the language...

Chris.

Let's slip some phenolphthalein in his lager and regularize him.

>Let's slip some phenolphthalein in his lager and regularize him.
                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
what the smeg's that, then?!  The lager in question is a 1 litre can
of Danish `Faxe', and is very nice.

I caught a brief glimpse of the Princess Di interview, it really isn't
that interesting.

Chris.

    Any man who wouldn't mind being one of Camilla's feminine
    hygiene products is definitely a few bricks shy of a load.
    
    

    Actually, I think Prince Charles wanted to be reincarnated
    as Camilla's 'knickers'.  :)
    

    
    	Give me Lady [Princess?] Di any day.
    

    If Prince Charles were anyone but the Heir to the Throne, he may have
    seen Princess Di differently.

    As it was, he was obligated to marry a virgin and create his 'heir
    and a spare', so he was mated to a 19 year old woman who wasn't
    Camilla.

    Being a rather rebellious type guy without a lot of meaningful work
    in his life, he chose to pine away for Camilla in a rather obvious
    manner.

    I doubt Charles will ever be King.  Even the Queen Mum is still going
    strong, so Elizabeth will probably reign long enough to finish when 
    Charles is in his near-retirement years and Wills is coming close to 
    his prime.

    i understand the queen mum simply went to the theater and ignored the
    whole thing.
    
    hey, do ya think the queen mum has ever scolded Charlie for his
    promiscuous fun?

>    i understand the queen mum simply went to the theater and ignored the
>    whole thing.
    
a bit difficult as she's still in hospital, unless you mean the operating
theatre?

Chris.

Appropos of nothing in particular, just having seen a few excerpts of the 
interview on the Today show, I would have to state that Princess Diana is
still one gorgeous woman.

    that's our news media for you. just last night they said that while
    priceless Di was being interviewed live the queen chose to go to the
    theater...

       Elizabeth ought to step down.  Charles has been raised and trained
       his whole life to be king, and here he is nearly 50 with
       essentially nothing to do.  Meanwhile, the Beast Elizabeth has
       become even colder-hearted than ever before.  Put her out to
       pasture.
       
       --Mr Topaz

    
    Chip:
    
    Queen !== Queen Mum
    
    

    
      It will be broadcast here in the colonies Friday.
    
      Word is, she revealed rather more than expected.
    
      bb

    Yep. Apparently she was no more faithful to her marriage than Charles
    was to his. ;-)

    
    >  Word is, she revealed rather more than expected.
    
    	Wow, maybe I will tune in after all.
    

    No nudey shots, Shawn. yer bummin'.

    
      Well, for example, she self-flagellated, but shied away from
     actual suicide, and got the cuts treated.
    
      Also, the threesome thing was blatant, public, and insulting.
    
      And she said she won't divorce Chuck.
    
      bb

    -1 sorry, i'm missing something.

    
      Um, not sure what, WMOIS::GIROUARD_C.  Princess (formerly Lady)
     Diana, the separated wife of Charles, Prince of Wales, granted a
     TV interview yesterday, which will be aired in the US Friday.
     In it, she said (1) she had been suicidal, (2) had been both
     publicly and privately demeaned by open, flagrant dalliance between
     her husband and his mistress Camilla, and (3) would not consider a
     divorce, which would muddy the royal succession of the House of
     Windsor.
    
      Is that clearer ?  What confused you ?
    
      bb

    Also expressed doubt that HRH the Tampon-Wannabe could accept the
    "limitations" being king would impose.
    
    -Stephen

    King Tampon Wannabe sounds like the leader of some African tribe.

    -bb that question wasn't for you... 

    
    
    
    She didn't say she was contemplating suicide...rather that she
    cut herself to get her husband's attention.
    
    Chris
    :)

  So OK, I keep reading about it but it never happens.  When are the
 reds getting their innings in the UK ?  How much of Major is enough ?

  At least the left might be good for a laugh or two.

  bb

    
    Reds?  When they gonna get cable or satellite on your mountain Billbob?
    
    The Reds are now your most favoured trading nation partners, except for
    the token Coobans that are still held up as a huge threat because:
    
     a) they're close enough to swim here.
     b) we need at least one country to be e perceived threat or we'll
        all get complacent and may even turn commie.  Like Vermont did.
     c) The huge economic threat they pose to the tobacco industry.
    
    Other than that, former socialists world wide have now moved to the
    center colliding with their reichtwing counterparts who have been
    busily doing same for years.
    
    This is tragedy of homeric proportions.  If you want laughs, there's
    always nationalists, greens, and their ilk.   
    
    

  right, so why don't they ever win over there ?  i mean, I understood
 it when they were stupid enough to actually believe in socialism.  There
 wasn't a segment of the electorate dumb enough to fall for that rubbish.

  but now when they do UK news in 30 seconds here, it's Major and then
 this fancy-dressed young guy with a vest and hair, talking fast and
 trying to look "ready for prime time".  Tony something ?

  So I would have presumed he'd get in, like Clinton.  Every dog's day.

  We're standing at the gates, and nary a barbarian...

  bb

    According to pollsters, the Tories have reached the theoretical point
    of no return and cannot muster enough votes to win.  It may even be 
    a bad loss for them.  I think The British electorate will blink at
    the polls - as they usually do.  This will either produce a narrow win
    for Major or a a narrow win for Tony Blair.  Either way, it won't
    really be a big enough change to see any large changes in policy.
    
    That's assuming that large changes in policy are likely.  The fact is
    there was a time for socialism in the UK as there was in many other
    countries.  Even the Massachussets colonies were founded as communes.
    It was the only way to sweep away the pre-war class based system,
    whatever other baggage it carried.
    
    Funny thing is, I grew up in what was the cradle of British Socialism
    The Taff Vale case in the 1900's is considered to be the starting point
    of Labour's political power.  Most of the old lags are about as
    socially conservative as you can get outside of Margaret Thatcher's
    knickers.  Things have changed long since.  The advertising agencies are
    in charge of the political parties.  Curse the reds, but they were the
    only real opposition.
    
    

    I think Brit Politics are a hoot.  While I was there in January,
    reading the papers and watching the Parliametary coverage (which played
    just like the Riki Lake show) were second in enjoyment (behind eating
    haggis) for me.
    
    Seemed like everyone's so pissed off that the Labor party can make up
    any lies they like about the Tories, and everyone's going to believe
    them.  Their assertion back then that the Tories were about to impose a
    17.5% VAT on groceries was one particular knee-slapper.  I just can't
    imagine any politician in the US getting anyone to believe a lie that
    big.
    
    And, while they were at it, there were all those swell stories about
    some recently converted MP who wanted to break off diplomatic relations
    with Germany, just because they hate Scientology so much.  As close as
    I could tell, he was ready to nominate L. Ron Hubbard for a knighthood.
    
    I will say that the random, warrantless searches of houses occupied by
    anyone ever known to have previously owned a gun made me sort of
    nervous, but I guess that's just the wacky, fun-loving sort of
    political system they enjoy over there.
    
    Of course, everyone hates the Tories right now.  They hate them so
    much, they're all going to go out and re-elect them, just like they've
    done every other time they've gotten pissed at the Tories.
    
    One thing I can say about Major's gummit, though:
    
    At least he makes the trains run on time.

    Arooga Arooga...irony alert.
    
    "At least he makes the trains run on time."
    
    Well done, you've mastered the art, now teach it to the rest of the
    populus of the lump of world on which you reside (especially Alanis
    Morrisette).
    
    Richard

    
    Yabbut the Railways are about the only industry that is still
    nationalized.  We all know that a socialized industry can't function
    at all, so Dawn must be telling porkies. 

No, this is one of the few pieces of truth I've ever spewed into this
conference.

Much to my amazement, throughout my vacation, not only did the trains run
on time, I could set my watch by them.  The sole exception was the train I
took from Swansea to Reading, which ended up being a half an hour late.

Riding trains around Scotland and other parts of the UK was one of the
nicest travel experiences I've ever had, and aside from watching Riki Lake
(I mean, the Parliamentary coverage) on TV and eating haggis, riding trains
around Scotland and other parts of the UK was what I spent all my time
doing.

I think they must have privatized the railroads.

    The reading train {shudder}.

	Take a ride on the Reading.

	If you pass Go, collect $200.

  It's official - uk election mayday.  the frantic six-week campaign may
 feature the first ever televised debates between potential primes

  bb

    Maybe it's me, but Blair sounds more of an upper class twit than
    Major.  Given our propensity for deferring to the upper classes,
    the electorate may be fooled into touching forelocks and voting
    Lab.  Strange days.

    is blair the clinton wannabee?

    Right.  He was just on the radio and sounds positively toffee-nosed.
    Who will speak for the unwashed lefty masses, I ask myself?

    who spoke for them before?

    Earthy, men of the people with the blue scars of the mine on their
    hands and a redbrick education.  Rough hewn accents from the provinces,
    fire in their oratory. 

    Hmph.  I thought Major was going to keep the election date a secret
    until after the votes were counted, on account o' someone on his staff
    telling him it'd be the only way he'd get re-elected.

What is a bloke?

    
    The opposite of a bird.
    

    so, it's a cat?

    In the UK, it's a guy, dude or fellah.  In Japan it means "out of
    order" or malfunctioning.

    
    I thought the opposite of cat was dog.
    

    i thought the opposite of cat was chick.

    the opposite of cat is dog, the opposite of bird is cat.

    
    Oh dear, a vicious triangle.
    

    
    	Or maybe it means that a bird is a dog.
    

    
    That sounds like an Everly Brothers song.
    

    
    	"Wake Up Little Suzie"?
    

 
No...the song is about Johnny, trying to steal one of the Everly's girlfriends
and he is referred to as a "bird dog".

    hey bird dog stay away from my quail,
    
    hey bird dog you're on the wrong trail...

    Bird = Female
    Bloke = Male
    Dog = Foul looking bird.
    
    
    Steven

Chick = Fowl looking bird.

  So.

  What is Blair on about ?  There was a news snippet of him calling for
 the abolition of hereditary voting seats in the house of lords.

  I guess us murakins  are not clear on the concept of the brit guv't.

  what is this ?

  bb

    
    Yes, Blair wants to introduce constitutional changes, which is
    theoretically a lot easier if you don't have a codified constitution.
    In practical terms, the US constitution has been amended much more in
    it's shorter lifespan than has the British.
    
    The House of Lords is comprised of hereditary peers (lords of the
    realm) and life peers.  When a party is on power, they are able
    to request the Queen to award a peerage to a person based on their
    life of public service.  Thus, there are tory peers, labour peers
    and even a few independents/liberals.   When the person dies, the
    life peerage ceases.  A hereditary peer is your genuine blue-blooded
    earl or baron and their ilk.  They pass it on to their kids. 
    I can see that this might make yer average American shudder.
    Celtic law does not admit primogeniture either.
    
    There are also the law lords, the seniors of the juducial system and
    the church representatives.  These are appointed by bodies official.
    
    The power of the lords is somewhat limited now, although unelected, 
    they act as a modifying influence on the lower chamber, and cannot
    prevent the passage of laws.  it's a very diverse body in terms of
    background and ability, but the vast majority are very eminent
    people.  A huge amount of experience and expertise, surprisingly
    defensive of the common people - a role the house takes very seriously.
    Extremely honest and forthright for the most part.  
    
    I'd be reluctant to see the old buggers go if they were simply replaced
    by another elected body of shady pols.     

    The upper house of the Westminster parliament is the house of lords. 
    It is not elected and acts only as a house of review.  The lords are
    either hereditary or life-time only (life peers).  e.g. Maggie Thatcher 
    is a life peer, her son is and remains a commoner.  There are also
    various odd bods such as the warden of the cinque ports - who gets to
    keep all the washed up whales around the coast, a post which was held
    by an Australian at one stage.
    
    The hereditary peers pass on the title by primogeniture.  So the eldest
    son of the earl of ... is entitled to sit and vote even if his IQ is
    sub-zero and he breeds racing cockroaches.
    
    The argument made for the house of lords is that the lords can consider
    long term problems, not being hounded by the vulgar need for
    re-election.
       

    Not _strictly_ a house of review.
    
    
    (See:
    http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld/ldinfo.htm)
    
    
    The Lords can't override "money bills" presented by Parliament.  They
    can temper a bill by argument and they can identify unconstitutionality
    in a bill and return it to the lower house for legal rework.  Royal
    assent can't be given untill both houses are in agreement, so they can
    bump a bill out to the next session. (Possibly defeating it if the
    government changes).  In practice, the Lords usually defer to
    parliament on the grounds that it, not the Lords is the elected house.
    They tend to save their chips for when they feel the present gov is
    going a bit loopy with power.
    
    Secondly, history.  Even when it was primarily made up of hereditary
    peers, the English system was surprisingly protective of the commoner.
    Magna Carta (1200s) is a constitutional document forced on the king by
    the Barons and Bishops or landed gentry, but contained the first
    expression of general rights:
      
    Clause 39 of Magna Carta states: 
    
    "No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights
    or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in
    any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send
    others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the
    law of the land."
    
    Due process, as it was 700 years ago.  The Lords are very protective
    of this history.
    
    Lastly, the hereditary young turks are few and far between and don't
    last very long. Like all such organizations, the bulk of the work is
    done in committee where incompetence is swiftly weeded out.  Very few
    chinless wonders - of which Maggie Thatcher's son Mark is an excellent
    example, I might add.  On the other hand, quite a few of the senior
    Lords are well into their dotage and apt to stand up and rail about
    Hitler, the decline of the Empire or the loss of the colonies.
    
    And it's not even nice work!  A Lord can claim a max of a couple of
    hundred per day to cover all expenses - including secretarial.  They
    are allowed travel to and from their homes, but many have to maintain a
    London flat in order to participate.  Of over a thousand eligible
    peers, they often have a hard time getting the 400 or so working
    members. (Small wonder the young turks don't participate).
    
    That said, These old fogies can by surprisingly progressive. Among many
    other things Lords have advocated such things as the decriminalization
    of cannabis as far back as 1968 (Baroness Wooton, British Advisory
    Committee on Drug Dependency).  The Labour gumment responded by
    increasing the penalties.
    
    Note that I'm not arguing _for_ the lords per se, but it would be a
    shame to throw the baby out with the bathwater here.  US Senators often
    serve long and honourable terms, but they do tend to be mostly drawn
    from  professional pols grounded in the law.  They spend half their
    lives fundraising and running for election and the other half sucking
    up to vested interests or lobbying groups.  The Lords are sort of like
    the influence your old granny wields within the family.  No-one elected
    her either.

  so would Tony give Liz, R the sack as well ?

  bb

    You can't sack the Queen!! 
    
    You can, however, change the laws so that a proposal does not have to be 
    given Royal Accent, before becomming law. This would, ofcourse, require
    the Queens consent.

I think they've already turned Buck House into a theme park and
are selling off the Royal yacht.  The handouts to rich and idle
royals are way down these days some have even had to get jobs.
The Kween now has to pay taxes on her personal fortune, which brings
in a bit of revenue.  Tony might as well milk them dry first then
find them a little house in suburbia.  The Crown Jewels would make
a halfway decent prize in the national lottery.

Maybe Chuck could host a chat show or start a recycling business.
 


[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

>Royal Accent

The Queen's English?

    I'll be in the UK - London - during the summer for a wedding. Where can
    I celebrate the 4th of July?

    
    	Anywhere you want.
    
    	Do you think they skip that day or something?
    

Suggestions:

Wales is only 2 hours away.  They celebrate everything, particularly
your success in getting out from under the heel of looney king
George and his fat ugly idle son.  Drink Felinfoel, one of the
top beers in the world and fall over a lot.

St. Catherines Dock.  Buy a cup of tea and dump it in the ha-bah.

Unless they've gone softy over there, you can also buy lethal chinese
fireworks and set them off yourself.   Watch out for edgy
Schmeiser-toting bobbies.

Check out the London gridiron football team - they probably have
something going on.

'Phone the US Embassy in London.  They usually sell tickets for a
ball.  (Not sure if it's a dance or a raffle.)



[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

Oh Smurfman:  could you please post a phonetic spelling and a translation
of "ddraig".

TYVM.

/john

    
    	Dwight Delanor Roosevelt, Already In Ground.
    

Ddraig  (th-rye-g,) is "dragon".  A pint of phlegm in one's throat
greatly aids the correct pronunciation.
[Posted by WWW Notes gateway]

    
      So is the election this week ?  Who's thought to be winning ?
    
      What's the current count by party in the Commons ?
    
      bb

The election is Thursday.

The press thinks Labour will win.  But it has thought so before and been wrong.

The Tories remain hopeful.

/john

    I'm completely out of touch, and so were all the Brits I met in Wally
    World.  Apathy rules.

   .244  i notice you used that supposedly generally-to-be-avoided
	 term, there, kiddo.  tsk.

    I should think so.  Flocking to the sunshine state like gulls, lowering
    the tone and complaining about how the food is not stodgy enough.  Not
    like those nice Canadians.     

    
      welsh is greater brits, ain't they ?
    
      do the welsh have a separate party ?
    
      bb

    
    Not only will Blair be elected; he will win.
    
    -Nostrildamette

    
      well, he outcoiffs major
    
      bb

    
    the pangolin swings to and fro.
    

    that dang pangolin, keeps swinging back and forth

    >do the welsh have a separate party ?
    
    They have a party which is standing for devolution [sp]. The name
    escapes me right now. They never really get many seats. Again the exact
    figure escapes me. 
    
    Most likley victors will be Labour. Although a lot of people remember
    what happend last time Labour was in power, a lot of people think it is
    time for a change. And as the Liberals have very little experience of
    government, the only alternative is Labour.
    
    Steven 

    
      so, let's say merrie england succumbs to the red menace
    
      if tony cashiers qe2, will chuckie be the winsor formerly
     known as prince ?
    
      bb

    
    ><<< Note 428.253 by GAAS::BRAUCHER "And nothing else matters" >>
    
    > so, let's say merrie england succumbs to the red menace
    
    Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland also went to the polls as well!!!
    
    
    POL

    that's why I always say U.K.

    >> Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland also went to the polls as well!!!
                                            ^^^^                   ^^^^^^^
                                      
    

They voted twice.

    Taken from http://www.itnelection.co.uk/
    
     At 03.07 this morning Labour officially won the general election
     and was today on course for a majority of 179. Tony Blair told
     supporters "a new dawn has broken" while John Major, facing overwhelming
     defeat, said: "politics is a rough old trade." The scale of the Labour win
     outsed four cabinet members: Defence Secretary Michael Portillo, Foreign
     Secretary Malcolm Rifkind, Scottish Secretary Michael Forsyth and Trade
     Secretary Ian Lang. BBC war reporter Martin Bell triumphed in Tatton where
     he defeated former Minister Neil Hamilton. 
    
    
    In the bright sunshine of a glorious day, shattered John
    Major and triumphant Tony Blair have only one thing in common. 
    They are both moving house today.
    Britain has a traditionally brutal change of power.
    Late Friday afternoon, Tony Blair will be walking into 10
    Downing Street through the most famous front door in
    the world. John Major - by convention - has to leave his
    home of the last six years by the back door. Michael
    Gerson removals are already packing up the Majors'
    belongings. The Blairs will be working out
    how they are going to fit their three children into the
    small flat above the offices. The last children to spend any
    time there were Harold Macmillan's grandchildren in the
    1950s
               

    
    Incredible.  There are now zero Conservative MPs in Scotland and Wales.
    over 100 women MPs in Parliament.

    For most people it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that Labour would win. 
Only those believing in miracles, would ever have put Conservative back in
power. 

I am concerned enough about Labour now being the governing party. But what
concerns me more is that they have such a large majority. It is going to be
very hard now for any party to get a bill passed that Labour does not agree
with. Like wise if Labour have a bill that the rest of the house does not agree
with then it can still get through parliament un-challenged. I would like to
have seen a smaller majority. At least then you have to have the whole house
agreeing on something before it gets passed. This way a `bad' bill will not 
get passed.

I guess only time will tell. Will Labour use this majority to the countries
advantage or will it be simply for the sake of getting their own bills passed,
regardless of the consequences?


I am hearing reports that John Major has resigned from the leadership of the
Conservative Party. His most likely successor will be Michael Hesiltine. The
former Deputy Prime Minister, and the President of the Board of Trade. Mr Major
went and saw the Queen this morning. Shortly afterwards Mr Blair was sworn in,
by Her Majesty.

Steven

    
      So does Major "go to the Lords" ?
    
      bb

    Not unless he gets Knighted by the Queen, or put on the Honours list by
    the PM. Unless either of those two happen his political career is over. 
    
    He did of course win his own seat, so he can return to the house as an
    MP for the oposition party. (the Conservatives) 
    
    At this stage I am not sure if he has resigned his post as Party
    leader, or completley and is giving up his seat. In which case there
    may be a By-election is his constituency.
    
    Steven

    re: .248
    
    ;-)
    

extracted from http://www.itnelection.co.uk/
                                       [Image]



                 Major's final hours: the queen then cricket
           John Major today ended six and a half years of
           political history as he resigned as both Prime
           Minister and leader of the Conservative party.

           The announcement came as Major emerged from Downing
           Street before a brief audience with the Queen at
           Buckingham Palace.

           Major said he would advise members of the Conservative
           party it was now "appropriate for them to consider a
           new leader of the Conservative party to lead the party
           through oppositionin the years ahead."

           He added: "It has been an immense privilege to serve
           as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom over the past
           six and ahalf years. It is a privilege which comes to
           very few few people and it is a precious privilege
           indeed.

           "Naturally, I will remaini at the service of the party
           during what I hope will be a reasonably brief
           interregnum."

           Major, accompanied by a police escort, arrived at
           Buckingham Palace at 11.33am to tender his resignation
           to the Queen.

           On the doorstep of Number 10, he said: "I hope, as I
           leave Downing Street this morning, that I can say with
           some accuracy that the country is in far better shape
           than it was when I entered Downing Street."

           With a note of dry humour, the former Premier said he
           would watch the cricket after his audience with the
           Queen.

           Major said: "Norma and I will be able with the
           children to go to the Oval in time for lunch and some
           cricket this afternoon."

           Major's resignation became inadvertently sucked into a
           fresh Euro-dispute however as German Chancellor Helmut
           Kohl made the unusual step of stating the British
           election result showed UK voters did not like
           Euro-sceptic policies.

           European Commission President Jacques Santer today
           said Tony Blair's victory was a chance for Britain to
           play its "rightful leading role" in the European
           Union.

           Santer said: "Never more than now has the European
           Union needed strong British commitment with its unique
           combination of pragmatism and efficiency."



                 [Image]
    

    I've had to hang up my nostrils.  And bloody painful it is too.
    
    And see here sonny boy, some of us have been around long enough
    to believe that it would never happen.  Miracles indeed.
    
    Now get thee to Bournemouth and enjoy the English riviera
    before it's turned into a soup kitchen.  

    
      "unique combination of pragmatism and efficiency" ?
    
      bwahahahahaha !!!
    
      bb

   > Now get thee to Bournemouth and enjoy the English riviera
   
    OK. Don't need to be told twice. Only 2hr9min to go

    Say hi to the Catholic River Wideners Club!

My sympathies to the people of the UK ....

    
    why?  they're the ones who voted.

    
      anybody notice a weird symmetry :
    
          Reagan                Thatcher
          Bush                  Major
          Clinton               Blair
    
      bb

    Convert the names into numbers and I'll bet you the answer is pi. Which
    goes to show you that was goes around comes around.

    
    the political pangolin, if you will.
    

    On the plus side, the Brits haven't cloned Newt yet.

    Now, they'll stick to cloning sheep and not wolves, eh?

    Saw Majors moving out of 10 Downing. Where are they moving the dude
    too? After some years of residence, does he still have a home to go to?

    It's back to the circus for him.

His family never moved from their home. I suspect he is returning there.

    I don't think the parallel is that strong, bb.  The British system,
    with the government being composed of the leading party of
    parliament, doesn't allow for such American-style oddities as the
    Executive Branch being run by a different party than controls either
    or both houses of the Legislative Branch.  They don't have as many
    different centers of power nor the consequent schisms between strong
    leaders in the House or Senate as opposed to the President.  When
    the PM speaks, and speaks with a near 2/3 majority (last I saw of
    the results, 629 seats of ~660 reporting, Labor had 416) the
    backbenchers may grumble, but for awhile at least they should stay
    in line.  Blair has lead them into power after 18 years in
    opposition.  They'll reward that.  Not that schisms don't happen-
    Tory eurosceptics crippled Major for most of his term- but those
    sorts of factions seem to be much more rare, or to bring a
    government down much more quickly.  The Tories have been in near
    paralysis for a long time.  Labor won't be.  I don't think their
    system is as suceptible to gridlock as is ours.
    
    Thatcher was much more impressive as a leader than Reagan- but they
    played similar roles in modernizing their parties and their
    countries.  Bush and Major don't impress me- both seem to have been
    caretakers rather than leaders.  Clinton looked like modernizing the
    Democrats, but really doesn't seem to have fought very many of the
    necessary fights.  Blair has- and won them- and convinced the
    country- and stayed sharp throughout over a year's dominance in the
    polls, through many opportunities for misstep.  Blair is the product
    of a much different system, and I expect to find him much more capable 
    of getting results than Clinton has been.
    
    DougO

    .279
    
    I'd concur on most of that but reserve judgement on the solidarity of
    labour, which has been historically riven by factions anyway, and is
    likely to be in future.
    
    Labour was founded by the trade unions and drew all its power from that
    base for most of its life.  It is Blair's predecessors that own credit
    for eliminating the power of the virtually-communist left wing. Then,
    major can also take credit for some of his Blair's success. Labour
    unions have declined in strength and power in virtually all western
    industrialized nations but more so in Britain.  Recently, the
    nationalised industries have been sold off, further fragmenting them
    and weakening their power and influence.  The tories passed a lot of
    anti-union law in 18 years
    
    In 18 years, the ideological old guard have simply retired or died
    off and there are few left who really remember or relate to the
    original manifesto.
    
    
    
    Along comes Blair, the product of an enviroment that was both
    conservative and Conservative with deeply-held christian views that map
    more to the Church's position on social issues than they do to
    socialist ideology.
    
    What he has done is taken the empty shell of Labour and turned it into
    a centrist party little different from many social democrat parties. 
    It's not that he's moved to the right, but that he's dragged the corner
    post to the goal post.  There simply is no "left" any more as labour
    traditionalists would have recognised it.
    
    I don't think this position will be tenable for very long.  Blair
    hasn't really promised anything and his followers are filling in the
    vacuous statements with their imaginations.
    
    

    
      Well, of course we'll see about Blair.
    
      Reagan and Thatcher seems a reasonable match to me - dramatic
     change from their predecessors, hard lines in foreign policy,
     harking back to conservative roots, long popular administrations.
     Both petered out a bit at the end.
    
      And we agree about Bush/Major, I think.  Similar figures.
    
      This sort of mild parallelism has happened before - Churchill/FDR,
     Atlee/Truman, Eden/Ike, etc.
    
      The point about the big majority for Blair is a good one - it's
     different, but recall Clinton began in the catbird seat, too.  Tony
     has a whole lot of political capital to spend.  But it's frightening
     how that can dissipate if you use it badly.  One thing going for him
     is he's had a while to think about his programme.  But the majority
     is so big, he's bound to have brought in some loony tunes.  His big
     danger is to swing too far.
    
      bb

    When's the next UK election? I'm asking this because of what happened
    in the US in 92/94 when the democrats made hay in 92 and got tossed in
    94 when their majorities failed to produce results. Is Labour going to
    have to hold an election any time soon, or are they somewhat insulated
    from initial missteps by not having to hold any elections for a long
    enough period of time as to allow them to recover from any bumbling
    about they might do?

Five years, I think.

    They must call another election within five years.  If the timing of
    events has them on a popular upswing 3 or 4 years from now, they can
    schedule it earlier- to renew their mandate while the country is in
    a good mood, or to get an election over with before some
    international event puts extra pressure on them.
    
    DougO

as in "the '76 doge sedan, a vauxhall victor"

And how should I pronounce "doge"?  In Manchester?

Thanks
Chuck

    
      now that tony is comfy, what's up ?  does GB go EU ?
    
      bb
    

DID BRITAIN'S RIFKIND OBSTRUCT WAR CRIMES
INVESTIGATION AGAINST MILOSEVIC? The Observer
wrote yesterday that former Foreign Secretary Malcolm
Rifkind blocked a U.S. request last year to turn over jointly
collected intelligence data to the Hague-based war crimes
tribunal. Court President Antonio Cassesse also appealed in
vain to Rifkind to release the telephone intercepts that
might have proven a link between Serbian President
Slobodan Milosevic and the Bosnian Serb leaders. The
London weekly added that Rifkind refused to change the
orders of British peacekeepers to enable them to arrest
indicted war criminals Radovan Karadzic and Gen. Ratko
Mladic. The paper also charged that the Milosevic regime
secretly paid $160,000 to Rifkind's Conservative Party
through a lobbying firm.