Conference back40::soapbox

    
    Canada recently introduced a law that made stalking illegal, 
    and I thought:
    
    "You mean, it wasn't illegal before this?"
    

    Get some training in Smith & Wesson;
    
    And take care of business.  
    
    
    Sin-te-da

    
    I have a friend who is currently being stalked.  He helped a woman with
    car trouble right down the street from his house and now she won't
    leave him alone!  He's filed a restraining order, but geez, can we
    really expect someone unbalanced enough to stalk in the first place to
    obey the restraining order?
    
    

    The value of the restraining order is that it gives police grounds to
    do something about the stalker, if they're so inclined.

One of the biggest problems with restraining orders seems to be
that even the party obtaining the order tends to be lax about
ensuring that it's enforced. I went with a woman who had a valid
restraining order against her ex- which could have prevented
him from even being present in certain places, and then she went
ahead and allowed him permission to be in those places. It's
awfully hard to expect the cops to enforce it "sometimes".

    Obviously this entire issue can be solved with guns.

    End of story. Sheesh.

    Must everyone stoop to the lowest denominator?

    
    Yes.
    
    
    HTH.

    It's a shame. But perhaps it's the truth after all.

    
    
    	One of my relatives was recently threatened by another relative and 
    took out a restraining order (the relative had threatened to kill them).
    They seemed confident that would be enough and that they'd just have
    him arrested if he came near them. My words to them were, "If he's
    coming to kill you, you won't have time to dial the cops." With an
    average response time of 10-20minutes, the police will probably just
    mop up afterwards and try and arrest a suspect (too bad you're already
    dead).
    
    	re: carrying a firearm
    
    	So all you anti-gun, anti-self protection, pacifists would rather
    lie back and die than protect yourself eh? Defending oneself is the
    lowest common denominator? How sad. Even the bible recognizes that
    letting someone take your life who has no right to take your life is a
    sin akin to suicide.
    	
    	You all go ahead and have your pipe dream about how the police are
    going to save the day. I'll take my chances with my .45 and just hope I
    never have to use it.
    
    jim
    
    p.s. - any of you keep fire-extinguishers in the house? Why? Your town
    has a fire dept don't they?
                               

    You Muricans are nuts when it comes to guns.
    
    Mebbee I live in a cacooned little world (of Reading),but never once
    have I had the urge or felt the need to buy a gun.
    

    
    well Stu, if we didn't have our guns to keep us busy, we would be
    as boring as you Brits. :-)

    
    RE: .10
    
    You need to speak to POL...
    

>You Muricans are nuts when it comes to guns.

Yes, we are.  Some of us also try to come up with 
ridiculously simplistic answers when confronted with
problems.  

Like, if you don't own a gun and you're being stalked,
well, then, it's your fault.  Not the stalker's.

> Like, if you don't own a gun and you're being stalked,
> well, then, it's your fault.  Not the stalker's.

	Who has said that?  If stalking is illegal, bring the guy up on
the charge.  The gun did NOT make the stalker do the illegal deed.

ME

From .9:

>    	So all you anti-gun, anti-self protection, pacifists would rather
>    lie back and die than protect yourself eh? Defending oneself is the
>    lowest common denominator? How sad. Even the bible recognizes that
>    letting someone take your life who has no right to take your life is a
>    sin akin to suicide.

This implies that the victim is at fault for not owning a gun.

    >This implies that the victim is at fault for not owning a gun.
    
     You may have inferred that, but that was not implied. At all. Not even
    close.

So says you.

  YAGN,

  George

    
    
    	so says I, the writer of said note. I pointed out that a
    pacifist/anti-gunner would rather die than use a firearm for
    self-defense. To me that position seems silly. I am not blaming their
    being stalked/assaulted on the fact that they don't own a firearm.
    
    jim

    
    
    	re: .18
    
    	what the heck does YAGN stand for?
    

	yet another gun note

    Didn't some woman in Maine file a civil suit against a man who was
    stalking her and win? I think it 100,00 plus 500,000 punitive. Needless
    to say, the guy got lost. Poor woman though, she carried a .357 from
    room to room.

    Glenn

    
    
    	it's tough to live in fear like that.
    
    
    

.19

>pacifist/anti-gunner would rather die...

No one would rather die.  Don't be foolish.

If I felt endangered by some wacko, I'd seriously consider
purchasing a firearm.  But some people would _never_ consider
this choice.  Why is that so hard to swallow?

    
    your all gun nuts

    
    
    	re: lady di
    
    	thanks for the clarification. George seems to have a real problem
    with gun notes. :*) I wonder if I started replying with YAPN (yet
    another political note) if it would frost his arse?
    
    
    jim

	I prefer white stockings myself. They seem to last longer. Plus, with
colored stockings, they tend to make my feet sweat. Anybody know why that is?

	or YANTAG (yet another note talking about George).  but he'd
	probably like that.  ;>

    
    
>No one would rather die.  Don't be foolish.
    
    	I made this statement because people have said to me that they
    would rather die than harm another human being.....my mother was one of
    those people who said this (among others). So your statement of 'don't
    be foolish, no one would rather die' rings hollow.
    
    	I guess my whole point is that *I* don't personally care if someone
    chooses to arm themselves or not, BUT I don't want someone making the
    choice for me. I feel people should be free to arm themselves in the
    interest of self defense. Most anti-gunners/pacifists feel no one
    should have the option.
    
    jim

    >No one would rather die. 
    
     Oh no? I guess you've never talked to a real pacifist. They'd rather
    die than arm themselves (some, many, most: pick one.)
    
    >But some people would _never_ consider
    >this choice.  Why is that so hard to swallow?
    
     Self preservation is a very strong instinct; it could be called
    Darwinistic. Not having that instinct or suppressing it to such a
    degree is unnatural. Little wonder people find it to be strange.

	.30  monkey Doctah!  monkey Doctah!

    <guffaw!>

| <<< Note 372.29 by SUBPAC::SADIN "One if by LAN, two if by C" >>>


| So your statement of 'don't be foolish, no one would rather die' rings hollow.

	I have a friend who I swear has a hollow leg. Cuz with all he can drink
(non & alcoholic drinks), he never has to go to the bathroom. His bladder can't
be that big, so he has to store it somewhere....

Let's see, we've already thrown Darwin and the Bible
into the mix...

Should we arm gays in the military?  

	whether in the military or not, I like my arms. So yes, gays should be
armed in the military.

Well, what about trigger fingers?

    
    
    	ah LANDO::OLIVER_B dwindles into the rathole.
    
    
    

trigger fingers are a MUST! lots of guns to shoot ya know. :-)

just be careful where ya aim that gun, pardner.

And speaking of ratholes, SUBPAC::SADIN, why show your
paranoia about losing your precious firearms in a note
called Stalking.  (I prefer Hanes.)

    
    
>And speaking of ratholes, SUBPAC::SADIN, why show your
>paranoia about losing your precious firearms in a note
>called Stalking. 
    
    	Because the subject of protecting oneself from a stalker came up.
    Firearms are a form of protection. If you can't make the connection
    it's no fault of mine....
    
    jim

	Anyone remeber, "The Night Stalker"? Was the lead actors name Darrin
Magavern or something like that? I LOVED that show! Of course, that suit he
wore made it hard to figure out what was scarier, the creatures or the suit!

Darren McGavin, I think.

    YAGN  (Yet Another Gay Note)
    
    Regarding the stockings question..Why would somebody who is truly
    gay...as a man, have an affinity for womens apparel?  If a man is
    attracted to a man, why would a gay man want to wear the clothes of a
    woman...stockings in this case...
    
    Just wondering!
    
    -Jack

| <<< Note 372.42 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

| Darren McGavin, I think.


	YES!  That's it....

| <<< Note 372.43 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "You-Had-Forty-Years!!!" >>>


| Regarding the stockings question..Why would somebody who is truly
| gay...as a man, have an affinity for womens apparel?  

	Cuz what one wears is not = to their sexual orientation.

    ZZZ        Cuz what one wears is not = to their sexual orientation.
    
    This is a given.  What I'm wondering is why would a gay man use womens
    apparel to attract a member of the same sex?  Wouldn't it make more
    sense for both men to be wearing manly clothes?
    
    -Jack

    >This is a given.  What I'm wondering is why would a gay man use women's
    >apparel to attract a member of the same sex?  Wouldn't it make more
    >sense for both men to be wearing manly clothes?

    I think the real question Jack is asking here, is why would
    a man be attracted to a man in a women's clothes, but not
    a woman in women's clothes.

    And the answer to that is, that a drag queen has his own
    sexual allure to some gay men; not so much in the wearing
    of the clothes, but in the taboo associated with it, as well
    the overt sexuality of lingerie... let's face it, a teddy
    is a hell of a lot more interesting than a pair of boxer
    shorts, as apparel goes (Mz. Deb's opinions notwithstanding).

    -b

>    the overt sexuality of lingerie... let's face it, a teddy
>    is a hell of a lot more interesting than a pair of boxer
>    shorts, as apparel goes (Mz. Deb's opinions notwithstanding).

I'm sure most heterosexual women would find a man in boxer shorts more
alluring than a man in a teddy.

    
    
    Whaddaya mean, Jack?  I'm sure Deb looks simply delicious in a
    teddy.... ;')

    
        I think a guy in boxer shorts would look cute holding a teddy bear.
    

| <<< Note 372.46 by MKOTS3::JMARTIN "You-Had-Forty-Years!!!" >>>

| What I'm wondering is why would a gay man use womens apparel to attract a 
| member of the same sex?  

	Why would men wear womens clothes to attract women? What you wear is
what you think you should be wearing. What YOU think will attract <insert
gender>. 

	Does this help?

    	Recently a local strip club advertised that they were sponsoring
    	a baggy boxer contest for the men (in the spirit of a wet t-shirt
    	contest, I guess) and that the female dancers would be the judges.

    
    I look better in boxer shorts than a teddy, prolly 8^).

<------NOT SO!!!!  NOT SOOOO!!!!!!!

    I hereby call for empirical evidence!

    I say I would look equally and predictably bad in either... :-(

    but I'd be more than happy to assist in the judging to
    determine which Mz. Deb looks better in... :-)

    -b

Take it to alt.binaries.pictures.lingerie.

re: .58

>Take it to alt.binaries.pictures.lingerie.

I would, but I still can't get my newsreader to work. Wish someone would
answer the query I left in 15.

    
    
    Sounds like a good contest for sometime in May, Deb...... :')

    
    Perhaps we can get Nancy to come out to make sure there's no prancing
    or teasing 8^)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))).

    
    
    	what fun would that be? :(
    
    

    
    Count me out _unless_ there's a great deal of prancing and teasing...
    
    :-)
    
    -b

	hey, i'm pretty good at prancing!!!

    yabut, can you fidget? I'm mean, _really_ fidget.

	when i don't want to be somewhere I can....

	You wasted a good stalkers snarf markey......

    No I didn't...

    
    Perhaps we should have a boxer-shorts contest AND a fidget-off.
                                   

    Well, I suppose it would be more civil than the usual
    box rhetoric if we only told each other to "figet-off".
                       
    -b

    I'm good at fidgeting. And I have a real nice pair of boxer shorts.

    I'm good at boxing and have been known to fidget in my shorts.

    
    <-- Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that troubles me 8^).

Most men who dress up in women's apparel are straight.

    
    I have on a man's shirt and tie today and I'm straight.
    
    Well, I'm not COMPLETELY straight.  I haven't been completely straight
    since I was about 11 or 12.  Puberty, you know 8^).

    .78
    
    8^*
    
    ric

    .78
    
    8^@
    
    not_ric

Wonder how many straight guys who dress in women's clothes
own guns?  And where would they pack the gun?  In their panties?

	In their bra.......what do you think they use for boobies? 

    
    
    
    Glen, is that like a boobie trap?  :*)
    
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
    I should think a man wearing women's clothing would put his gun in the
    same place a woman wearing women's clothing would put hers.

    So, if that's what you _should_ think, then what _are_ you thinking?

>In their bra.......what do you think they use for boobies? 

So THAT's where Madonna came up with that unusual fashion statement!!
From some straight guy packin' 38s!!!

    
    .85
    
    8^pPpPpPPpPppPPPpppPpPppPpP!
    
    .86
    
    Is that where the .38 number came from, the size of the bra in which
    said gun will fit 8^)?

        Did I hear someone mention a matched pair of .44s?
        
        &y
        

    My cups runneth over!

| <<< Note 372.84 by POWDML::LAUER "Little Chamber of Fuzzy Faces" >>>

| I should think a man wearing women's clothing would put his gun in the same 
| place a woman wearing women's clothing would put hers.

	It's easier to shoot when it's in the bra. I mean, ya gott fill the
cups with something, right?

	Terrie, YES! It IS a boobie trap!!!!


Glen

    Go out and rent THE TENTH VICTIM to see how it's really done!  ;*)

    RE: .92
    
    There are fairly compact firearms that are still quite
    useful for personal protection. If you wear a dress, you
    might consider a "thigh" holster. Or, you could do like
    most men who carry do: use a "fanny" holster that tucks
    inside the back of your pants/dress and that is secured
    by your belt.
    
    -b

oooooohhhhhh.....the pain and agony of it all....

    I'm 5'0".  A former SO tried to teach me to fire a gun that he 
    thought I should be able to handle.  Knocked me on my keister the
    first 2 times I tried to fire it.  Not for me; my apartment was
    in a neighborhood that was plagued by a rapist for months.  I
    finally moved and bought my home quite a distance away.  I figure
    4 yapping poodles will serve as an early warning signal.
    
    That same SO also told me I had no business owning a gun unless I
    was prepared to use it, i.e. no hesitation at the last minute be-
    cause I didn't want to kill someone.
    
    Unfortunately, there are no easy answers to stalkers.  A friend who
    had been an Army Ranger and later secret service said they all know
    it's impossible to stop someone if that stalker has no qualms about
    possibly losing their own lives.  The Atlanta are has been plagued
    for over a year by a rash of women being killed by ex-spouses or
    ex-SOs; in almost every case the stalker walked right into the 
    women's workplace and shot them there.
    
    Bottomline (although it wouldn't be much of an option to most people);
    leave the area.  Get out of Dodge and don't tell anyone where you are.
    Extreme I know; but unless the individual is willing to get a gun, LEARN
    to use it properly and be prepared to shoot the SOB if he/she gets
    too close, there really isn't much you can do.
    

    re .93
    
    If you try to buy a fanny holster in Britain they'll look at you
    EXTREMELY strangely !!
    

    
    
    Okay, no gun and you want to defend yourself.  There are a few places
    to go.  One is the eyes.  You are trying to poke them OUT.  Lock the
    joints of your fingers and go for the face.  The eye sockets will guide
    your fingers to the eyes.  Keep going hard until you hit your mark. 
    Then there are the testicles.  Pretend that you are attracted to him. 
    Get his drawers off then squeeze his testicles like grapes.  You don't
    want to be gentle with this either.  You are trying to mash them.  This
    is serious business.  
    
    I suggest that you women out there get the book Armed and Female.  Good 
    read.  Practice makes the use of a firearm easier.  There are womens 
    shooting clubs where you can find out more about shooting from other 
    women.  This tends to be less intimidating than having your SO teach you.
    
    
    Mike 

I'm goign to stalk this SNARF

    
    bastion's?  ;^)